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13th Legion

Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

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If your going

 

.308 / 7.62 then 45 is a good round as a 45 can be made from cut down .308 / 7.62

 

.223 / 308 one is as loud as the other due to sound pitch the sound carries.

 

I am a 357 freak BUT combat or intense defense requires a magazine for quick reloads

I am fast with speed loaders but faster yet with a magazine. and due to the auto stack it lends itself

to better load / carry configuration.

 

I feel confident with any caliber except .25 auto but that has to do with experience

I found that in the case of 25 auto empty the mag into the crotch and slip the pistol into a sack

and hope you can knock them out beating them with it.

 

All calibers have their draw backs you do not get something for nothing accuracy / penetration / power / weight

 

light weight barrel heats up heavy barrel , well it's heavy big ammo heavy in the scheme of things it should

be a concern if your all there is and no air support you have to carry all the equipment yourself.

Hollywood has always made a mess of firearms the 30 shot single action and the full auto, semi auto with an endless magazine.

It makes it hard to explain to those unfamiliar with defense / combat witch to me is the same as if your not prepared for the other your ill prepared period.

Some try to overlay present conditions during a TEOTWAWKI situation and if you were in L.A. during the riots

and I was here and telling you to ratchet back on the concern you would tell me to drop dead.

 

If your alone in a parking garage and a couple or 3 bangers are eyeballing you then how much ammo and

what caliber "WILL" come to mind and all those posts of your paranoid or extreme will not matter much.

 

Be proficient and accurate use cover correctly and have enough power and ammo to get the job done.

 

I have considered the question and if in your area you can encounter any animal over 300 pounds

a 7.62 / .308 is in order but your pistol needs to be of equal ability so carrying a .45 auto is not going to

be of value with your pants around your ankles taking a dump or walk out of your tent into a bear or a

moose in full rut.

If your bugging in and are only concerned with 2 legged critters well the scenario changes if you live in a city

or rural area? different still then the ammo hunting or military ball?

If your bugging out in a compact car a full size L1A1 is not the ideal weapon unless your not carrying anything else and intent to make it a convertible to be able to swing that baby around and get a bead on tail gaiters.

A buntline version 454 Casull hip holster is not good a cross country companion.or is it easy to "WHIP OUT"

while driving in your mini cooper either.

 

Then there is the question of a backup handgun, if your not considering someone getting the drop on you

in a TEOTWAWKI situation your not considering all the probabilities.

and unless your not intending to use the restroom bathe change clothes or have sex until cessation of hostilities please stay downwind from me and others as a courtesy.

 

flexibility and enough power to do the job no one firearm is perfect in every situation

and weapons get damaged or break then your secondary arm and backup is all you have

and the ammo won't fit in most cases.

 

Consider some people have the TOMB RAIDER OR DIRTY HARRY COMPLEX either I got a semi auto pistol with

30 round mags and 10 on each side and can do ninjitsu moves or I have an elephant gun and can shoot

through buildings and blow peoples head off well that is not quite correct.

a female police officer fired all the rounds out of her glock 17 at less than 20 feet and hit NOTHING.

a male police officer hit his target with his MAGNUM and also a bystander Oops!

and prone shooting with an AK and a banana mag is limiting as well as with many other rifles.

 

and to really get your brain working:

 

a revolver has a cylinder a pistol can have a mag or be fed by a stripper clip

and a bolt of course is a bolt and a lever has a lever and a semi or auto is a rifle still but has either word

before rifle and a carbine in a short version rifle and can be in any pistol or rifle caliber.

a falling block is just that and then a pump and break action is obvious as is belt fed.

now here is the question what do you call a revolver rifle in one word to be brief

a "ROFLER A RIVOLVER a pistolbine carvolver?????

 

1873_revolver_carbine_lg.jpg

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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Where can I get a tricked out space gun?

 

Urban, did you like the movie Spaceballs? In the movie, the Storm Troopers in the white plastic uniforms carried a rifle called the Calico M-100. It looks like a space gun but it is really a 22 rifle that uses a 100 round cylindrical magazine. I own one with two magazines. So, if you really want a ‘space gun’, drop me a note. But let me tell you, it takes considerably longer to load that thing than it does to empty it!

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First, thanks to all for your input and insight over the past months. My question is related to what to get for a longer range rifle. I have the following for SHTF:

 

- G22, G23 and KelTec Sub2000, .40 S&W with plentiful magazines

- Ruger P85, 9mm... an old but rugged pistol

- Ruger SP101 = the wife's EDC

- K22 and S&W M&P 15-22

- 12 ga. (S&W 3000 pump and Savage Double Barrel); Plan to procure a nice 20 ga. tactical shotgun

 

I hunted as a young man but that was some years ago. What I want now is something for hunting and/or sniping/SD if the need arises. There are so many options and I would appreciate hearing your ideas/recommendations on the pros and cons re caliber and particular rifle. Related issues important to me are maintenance and availability of ammo.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Now of days rifles cost a premium

 

depending on how large the game is in your area a .308 will drop anything in the lower 48

stick with a 308 or 223 military calibers will always have ammo, oddball calibers in times of hardship

will be difficult to find or people will not want to trade but our military has plenty LOL

 

bolt actions are a good buy used seen many for 375 to 650 with scope

just know what your buying.

 

a friend got a H&R single shot and drives tacks with it they have them in both calibers for under 300 bucks they seem to come with scope base also

if your not going to make this your main battle arm a single shot is OK.

 

marlin in a bolt seems to cost the least and has good reviews

 

The mosin nagant looks good until you add a scope mount and the price of a gunsmith to put it on

then a good scope then the marlin or a good used rifle price looks good.

ammo is less expensive right now but if you do get one make sure you get a 880 round case of ammo.

 

right now I am cautious to much going on not to get it all at once counting on buying it over time

could place you in a cramped situation if you have the rifle and need a scope and your money dries up

your stuck, so what ever you do buy / have enough ammo rifle and scope less than 500 rounds I feel naked.

but I look at it like a life time investment and I do not think that firearms are going to get cheaper IMHO.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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I agree with most of what Snake wrote above. (I like the .357 Mag as well - actually I prefer revolvers to pistols, even for combat use; I carried a revolver (.38 spl) and speed loader in RVN until I could get my hands on a .45 ACP. That was caliber driven, not platform driven)

 

I disagree about the .223 - I don't like calibers that can get me in trouble and a 5.56 will chamber in a .223 and the .223 will shoot it but a 5.56 has MUCH more pressure than a .223. In fact a 5.56 produces a 'proof load' pressure in a .223. This is a dangerous mistake and I'm not sharp enough to spot the difference just by looking so I would never deliberately own a .223.

 

I also like lever guns and there are plenty out there. Since I do not think that many against few combat is a realistic part of most survival scenarios (if it happens, you lose unless you have SERIOUS military weapons - full auto, belt fed major caliber kind of serious) and an individual simply can not afford to stock the supplies for such a scenario (full auto converts an effective combat weapon into a club at 800 rounds per minute or faster - 8000 rounds of .50 BMG is 10 minutes from a battle dominating 'Ma Deuce' to a really heave club at over $3 per round), I don't prep that way. I prefer to prepare for the other survival needs with weapons that will let me E & E out of a combat situation. The problem with most survival books is that survival is boring and combat is exciting (if you've never been there) so the stories are combat heavy. When was the last time a Western didn't have a fist fight and a gun battle of some kind?

 

A whole lot of western pioneers (and not a few 'ridge runners' in the eastern mountains) survived their whole lives on single shot rifles or single or double shotguns. A fully tricked out space gun is fun to shoot but if it doesn't do the survival jobs you need done and cost so much you couldn't afford that 30-30 that you need for a deer or bear, then you've blown your survival to look cool. Bad Plan A. A truly successful survival event means I NEVER need to pull a trigger.

 

Just the not so humble of a big bore bigot (with a .22LR in reserve:) )

Edited by Capt Bart
punctuation

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Cap’n Bart, if the only reason to have a big rifle was for survival only, I am 100% in your corner. However, we only go around once in life and if one loves shooting big bore rifles, then one ‘needs’ them. For survival I’ll take the 22 every day. It just makes sense because they are light weight and carrying ammo is easy. But, deep down in the heart of this 11-year old adult, I love firing the big boys. I have two 50 cals. The first one I bought is the Beowulf. It is a 50 cal on an AR frame. Looking at it one can’t tell that it is a big bore. But immediately after the first squeeze of the trigger, you’ll know it is not a 223. The military uses it to stop vehicles that refuse to stop at a road block. The cost of ammo is somewhere around $2.00 per boom. My other one (I just bought last month) is a 50 BMG. When it comes to survival, this ain’t the rifle you want to carry. But, if you want to protect the homestead during a bug-in, you can start your defensive attack from a long, long distance. It is also an awesome rifle to shoot. But, at 41 pounds without the carry handle and considering the size and expense of the ammo (somewhere between $3 and $5+ per boom), it is not a bug-out rifle. But both are absolutely awesome to shoot. Since I destroyed my legs 30 years ago, a bug-out scenario will only happen if my place is burning. So weight of rifle and ammo is not a concern.

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Cap’n Bart, if the only reason to have a big rifle was for survival only, I am 100% in your corner. However, we only go around once in life and if one loves shooting big bore rifles, then one ‘needs’ them. For survival I’ll take the 22 every day. It just makes sense because they are light weight and carrying ammo is easy. But, deep down in the heart of this 11-year old adult, I love firing the big boys. I have two 50 cals. The first one I bought is the Beowulf. It is a 50 cal on an AR frame. Looking at it one can’t tell that it is a big bore. But immediately after the first squeeze of the trigger, you’ll know it is not a 223. The military uses it to stop vehicles that refuse to stop at a road block. The cost of ammo is somewhere around $2.00 per boom. My other one (I just bought last month) is a 50 BMG. When it comes to survival, this ain’t the rifle you want to carry. But, if you want to protect the homestead during a bug-in, you can start your defensive attack from a long, long distance. It is also an awesome rifle to shoot. But, at 41 pounds without the carry handle and considering the size and expense of the ammo (somewhere between $3 and $5+ per boom), it is not a bug-out rifle. But both are absolutely awesome to shoot. Since I destroyed my legs 30 years ago, a bug-out scenario will only happen if my place is burning. So weight of rifle and ammo is not a concern.

 

We, sir, are in violent AGREEMENT!:D My point was get your survival battery (3 plus 1 - handgun, rifle, shotgun plus a .22) and ammo basic load taken care of first; then buy what ever you wish. My Sharp's 'Big 50' is one of my favorite shooters. My cowboy guns are also fed with black powder and I love shooting them all. They can be used in a survival situation (worked for the westerners for half a century) but would not be my first choice.

 

I've been lusting in my heart for a 50 BMG of some type. I've been looking at the Grizzly Big Bore - I can't afford to buy something like a Barrett, wish I could. I don't have the money for the Grizzly yet but since my preps are essentially complete, I feel somewhat justified in buying the guns I like to shoot.

 

If you've never shot a Sharp's, you should try to get someone to let you shoot one. That thing goes off like a 16 inch Naval rifle. Big smoke ring, flash of flame at muzzle, and a long rumbling BOOOOOOM; it is almost erotic and is lethal at a thousand yards. (Google Billy Dixon and the battle of adobe walls)

 

Not all of my firearms are best choices for survival or for combat. (I still insist that those are two different topics.) Any 'lead launcher' is better than no lead launcher. I just would not let the desire for something fancy keep me from having the 'necessary for survival' items. That Sharp's will take a squirrel at any distance I can see the squirrel. Problem is, if I can even FIND the tree the squirrel was on, there won't be enough squirrel left for any use. Get what you need first and THEN what you just want to shoot.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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Cap’n, never shot a Sharps Big 50 but it sounds like fun. I just love shooting. An afternoon listening to BOOM is never dull and it lets one vent the day’s frustration.

 

Buying the 50 BMG did kind of hurt the checkbook but I had been vehemently lusting over it for three years. I bought an Armalite AR-50. I like it a lot. It tips the scale at 41 pounds without the carrying handle so it’s not a hunting rifle!

 

Most of my firearms are not the best at survival. But I do have some that are. My AR-7 is a good survival rifle. It’s a 22 that breaks down and fits into the water proof stock.

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