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Vicioustom

On the Subject of Religion.

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I know this may be a bad idea, and hopefully no one turns this into a platform to batter folks with their particular flavor of Faith, but I've seen the subject come up in passing in many thread, and was heavily referenced in Captain Barts well written article about deadly force http://survivalcache.com/survival-psychology-deadly-force/

 

I'm curious about peoples thoughts on how Religion will effect us during the aftermath of TEOTWAWKI. The likelihoods of religious states being formed. How religious beliefs will be tested, and to what degree. The likely hood of religious violence when rule of law is gone, or even the establishment of religious law, etc...

 

I've seen a lot of bibles listed in folks BOB, meaning there are likely many with strong convictions, which can potentially create or diffuse volatile situations. Faith can be a very powerful force to carry in ones heart, regardless of what that faith may be, for good or for ill.

 

I hope I haven't broken any forum rules by posting this, but I think considerations about not only your beliefs but the beliefs of others and how they will interact is another aspect that will require attention because faith can drive people to do amazing things, both good or bad.

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Wow. Thoughts on religion. Dont you know how many wars have been started over this? Seriously though i have a little hobby where i like to study cultures past and present through their religions. Religions tend to amplify what is in a persons heart. Good or bad. I can handle most peoples beliefs as long as they can be tolerant to mine. Sort of a live and let live mindset. Problem i see is that most religions address the outsider as a threat. How that threat is treated is paramount to the tolerance of the group.

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Reaction to outsiders has always been a consideration of mine, even in day to day life. I travel in the some of the same circles as very devout Christians, and even with rule of law I've had to gut some pretty nasty situations. I'm not a member of any of the big three, or four if you count atheist, thus not particularly knowledgeable on the subject. I'm genuinely curious, and a bit apprehensive about how organized religion will play out in an EOTW scenario, or even a large scale disaster WROL.

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My Christianity effects my TEOTWAWKI planning, becuase in my mind an end of the world situation involves me leaving the Earth anyway, in the way that I don't prepare for the "end", unless you concider my faith as preperation. What it does effect is the way I think about others who might need help. I do not talk about my preps, but if some needed help I would help them. Also, I take a religious view on world events, and I see a one world government coming, I see I.D. tags already going into peoples bodies, and many others.

DesertRat.

p.s. This is the only thread to post this without sounding like a thumper. No matter how many "sins" you have commited, will commit, Jesus loves you more than you can ever know and wants you to know Him too.

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Christianity as a whole teaches "love''.Following it to its extreams is deadley.Many have died for it.

But to live with the princibles of what we know in our harts is correct,is more than enough to rebuild.If the SHTF those who do survive will make sure that the mistakes that were made dont happen again,I hope and Pray.

BUT understanding "Mankind" there is always a chance that History will repeat it self.

 

Love one another as I have loved you..was not a request..

 

It aint easy.and Im still working on it...

Edited by 101matt

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organized religion is a threat to a degree depends on who's doing the organizing

 

Jesus was very much appalled by how the Pharisees and Sadducee's treated his people

 

he called them vipers and said the put weights on their backs that they themselves

 

would not bear and were too interested in legalism and not the lives of the people.

 

Christ is a very misunderstood Deity for me he is the only one because he died for us

 

we are not to flog ourselves or berate ourselves but change and forgive ourselves and others.

 

Christ died for us this is an alien concept to any other religion he paid the price and it is a

 

free gift no exceptions.

 

Romans 10:9 – “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart

that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

 

read the book of Mathew about how Christ reviled the priests of his time called them vipers...

 

And it is going to be hard if something happens but if you tell people what you will do then

unless they are dumb as a post let it fly that may seem harsh but if you give your word you are

to keep it if attacked you can defend to the death / unless they are coming after you for your faith

/ the fact that you are a Christian then let them take you.

Now that's a hard nut to crack but that is the way I understand it

 

the following come from John 18:1-11 only a part is shown here you should read it all yourself.

 

10 Then Simon Peter, whaving a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s servant and cut off his right

ear. (The servant’s name was Malchus.) 11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath;

shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”

 

these were men who carried weapons it was dangerous to travel on foot and bands of thieves would

jump you.

Christ puts the soldiers ear back on / heals him and then is taken in to be crucified

 

You need to look past the fact that he allowed his disciples to carry weapons he was never in danger

many times it is told he walked away even though they were screaming for his blood

this incident was to show how forgiving Christ is and was and he fore told the events before they

happened and how much he was willing to give for our benefit.

 

every day in Israel they find connections that verify that Christ lived and was crucified names of people

in the bible were stated as lies that those people were in Rome and not Judea these claims

fall like dominoes many stone tablets and scrolls prove it from both secular and religious sides

Josephus a non Christian wrote about Christ / Caiaphas a strange and uncommon name in that day

a bone box was found with his name and it dates to the time of Christ / the widows mite a coin that

scholars said never existed was unearthed during a road repair.

And the BIG Kahuna the text compared to the scrolls found at the dead sea are the same no changes.

now that flies in the face of all those who say that the Bible has been miss copied or whatever..

just like the real news you never hear the left hates Christ and all he stands for and will NOT carry a

story on religion unless it is against Christians.

 

In a day when there was no pictures no internet or phones and all you had to do was walk away

shave all your hair off these guys were hairy as apes then who would know you you could call yourself

any name of someone you knew who was not wanted and walk away they knew hundreds of people.

why did 10 of the 11 disciples died horrible deaths by stoning and crucifixion for

preaching the gospel now why would they do that if it was not true and

Judas was wealthy with the 30 pieces of silver and arranged Christ's capture and the Pharisees

and Sadducee's would not have stood in his way but instead he hanged himself figure that out..

who in the world commits suicide when the did what they intended and are wealthy???

 

My advice get a new English version and a King James version and read the English version first

I had real problems with the King James version and here is the best thing if after you have read it

through you still find it is not true you can use it for rolling papers for cigarettes butt wipe

chink holes in your bug out cabin for all I care it's a personal decision and no one can force it on you

it's your God given right to reject it because you have all power to do as you please.

You can defy gravity too but lets see how far you get with that one.

 

I will give you a reason for not reading it because YOU KNOW its like tar one bit gets on you and it gets

everywhere and it won't come off it will haunt you every time you do something wrong it is an alter ego

a conscience like you never had and I will tell you of Paul Harvey remember the radio guy that would

end his show with "that's the rest of the story"

well it has been many years since I remember this but the Gideon bible is printed in a castle that was

once owned by a devout atheist one of many places it is printed, he would break into houses and take the bibles and burn them he was powerful and wealthy and one day he locked himself in his room and was

heard screaming the Nazarene the Nazarene when they broke in he was found alone and dead

and for all the hatred and attempt to destroy the written word has turned against him and now they

pump out bibles by the thousands and hundred thousands.

That was one story by Paul Harvey I remember even when I was not a believer.

 

IMHO i want everyone no matter who or what they have done to come to Christ no one is perfect

no crime or debauchery to vile even murder look at King David and his sin, the woman at the well,

and so many more.

Jesus is my kind of God if you stop it and turn around and ask and believe you are forgiven PERIOD.

no running in fire or some or some people playing with snakes or going into a commune

it is so simple and yet so hard because it means you cant do it again without felling like crap

it ruins a good time or what you thought was a good time.

 

Please read my post on Sid Roth about Jonathan Cahn and what he found it will bend your mind

here is a link I hope it works

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=10937

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...

 

I'm curious about peoples thoughts on how Religion will effect us during the aftermath of TEOTWAWKI. The likelihoods of religious states being formed. How religious beliefs will be tested, and to what degree. The likely hood of religious violence when rule of law is gone, or even the establishment of religious law, etc...

 

Did you see "The Road"? Dad had slipped into full on survivor mode and his son kept diverting him into a more humane path. It was innocence and kindness.

 

Religious beliefs are and will be tested all the time, the difference will be the magnitude of those tests maybe amplified because that can of beans may be the only one for a hundred miles and you have seven starving people looking at you. Those moments are tests for both sides.

 

Religious violence? Immediately after TEOTWAWKI chances should be low, survival will take precedence and unless prepared, (LDS?), community will be a rare occurrence. Hard to have a "religion" by yourself. Alone it's faith, religion is a community. I mention the LDS only because they seem to be preppers' as part of their faith. It's wonderful, but they may be the standing religion after TSHTF.

 

Have you seen "The Book Of Eli"?

 

And, to paraphrase "Dogma": "Beliefs are dangerous! People will Kill for them, people will die for them, I like ideas, you can change an idea..."

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As a Christian, A BOB bag and all this gear is not essential for survival. When you go, you go- To a much better place.

Spreading these beliefs is essential, to assist in saving others souls. A apocolapse sitiutaion will result in survivors, that will the rebuild society, and incur a 1000 year era of peace.

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there ya go DK564 great first post welcome

 

my view is the soul is like the hard drive on your computer it can be taken and placed in another

 

it holds all the memories / data it can be wiped it can be edited but as long as it works you are you.

 

these parallels should help the folks who do not understand why we Christians think the way we do

 

many bad and horrible things happen but that is erased no one is missing god knows where all the

people are and if you think that's crazy then how does a machine compare?

you trust a computer with your precious photos and documents and cannot see it physically

but trust it all the same, them little 1's and 0's in a string you believe that they will keep your

video of grandma and the kiddies safe Now to me that's CRAZY!

 

4th dimension no problem it exists maybe more science finds out something and acts like it is NEW

now that's CRAZY! it was always there.

 

Aliens oh yea their out there "going to and fro" called angels and demons, ghosts no I think so its demons

because they only give you crappy answers instead of telling you where they buried the good silver.

I do not care what their name is how does that help me.

some tea leaf reader telling me my mother loves me I already know that DUH! I also know she is

dead so I figure it ain't her just a demon pulling my chain AGAIN why not tell me something useful

like if there is any health issues I should know about or YOU GOT IT where is the money.

What dying and going to the other side makes you stupid you know all but forget it takes cash in

this world to pay bills come on folks NOW THAT"S CRAZY!

 

I got a million of them I thought thing through not that some of you have not it is just I tried it 2 ways

one with a God and a devil and the other with nothing out there just an accident .

 

here is a web site a bunch of doctors / PHD's in all kinds of fields of study published dyed in the wool

real scientists and doctorates out the ying yang check it out, IF YOU DARE. LOL

 

http://www.reasons.org/

 

studies of brain scans have show many positives to prayer and physical changes beneficial to the body

and now of days we are not in the dark ages so fast forward to the present please Christians are

more inclined to forgive and give to charities of their time and money and as a nation we give more

than all the others combined so THERE LOL.

 

We are sinners we are capable of stupid crap and will continue to be so we are still HUMAN

I do not like Christians looking down on anyone or acting like they are above it all our brains

have not changed we are suppose to resist and overcome not never have bad thoughts

NOW THAT"S CRAZY

 

and I hate the new catch phrase of SEWING monetary SEED we have a guide 10% to whatever

strikes you to children's hospitals church food water wells in Africa as long as it is through a Christian

organization and you should support your home church I give to street people so what if they buy a beer

it may be the beer that makes them hit bottom they may thing I am a sucker so what at least they

can never say no one cared.

If i got more I give more sometimes i notice I give less I try not to be too conscience of it and let

God figure what when ad how.

How about this analogy you pay a builder to build your home do you demand he leave every scrap

or paint putty nails and everything else NO maybe a few things as a builder I have done free work for

people who were broke or helped a friend of a friend some call it networking if your conscience of it

and keep a list of favors yes it's networking if you do it because you have been in their shoes

it's different and if your a Christian it's more than that I can't explain it but it seems every problem

gets solved and I am not panic prone I know it will work out as long as I work or ask and try

as my part, the hard part is not to put God on the spot he is not your Waiter or a supply store

he works though US if he did everything then where would we come in.

 

anyway in TEOTWAWKI OR hazardous times it has been a calming sense that no matter life or death

and everything in between he has it handled so I do not need to stress out I do but then i realize

it and I relax and think it out or let it be I still screw up but that's just me maybe you will do better LOL

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Christianity as a whole teaches "love''.Following it to its extreams is deadley.Many have died for it.

But to live with the princibles of what we know in our harts is correct,is more than enough to rebuild.If the SHTF those who do survive will make sure that the mistakes that were made dont happen again,I hope and Pray.

BUT understanding "Mankind" there is always a chance that History will repeat it self.

 

Love one another as I have loved you..was not a request..

 

It aint easy.and Im still working on it...

 

Note: He said that and then went out and let us murder Him. Love, like Truth, is not a something, it is a Someone and His name is Jesus the Christ. So all Christians (should) believe.

 

Paul says we should love our wives as Jesus loves the church, daily dying for her. Ouch! I guess I have a way yet to go before I can claim to be a good husband.

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I had a PM about this thread. We (the global monitors) had decided to delay it until we had a few more monitors to help with it. Since I try to at least scan every post for suitability I confess that this thread worries me about the amount of time it will take.

 

I am going to leave the thread open; if it gets out of hand I'll have to close it just because of the time it takes out of my day. Remember, we speak the truth as we know it. No personal attacks, no anger, and no cheap shots. I'm going to stay out of the thread as much as I can and let it flow as it will.

 

Full disclosure: I am a Catholic Deacon, a member of the clergy, and have been so for 25 years this month. In the Catholic church there are three levels of the ordained priesthood: Bishop, priest, and deacon. My formal title is "The Reverend Mister ....." although that is rarely used. Mostly at church I'm simply addressed as Deacon. I've done weddings, baptisms, and funerals. I spent 5 years in seminary studying scripture, theology, philosophy, Canon law, history and psychology among other things. Although I am married with children and grandchildren, should something happen, God Forbid, to my bride I can never remarry. If you haven't figured it out from my writing, politically I'm somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun and religiously I'm slightly more conservative than the pharisees.

 

That is a quick thumbnail of my background. I won't try to impose my views and I won't censor yours. I will shut the thread down and/or ban anyone if flame wars or personal attacks start. Keep it civil and we can explore our similarities and differences.

 

I do think that our faith is a major part of what will keep us 'human' after TSHTF. We tend to follow our childhood beliefs when we get older. The difference is that as mature adults, we have reasons for our faith other than momma said so. I also think that a wildly different set of beliefs can tear a group apart. For that reason, knowing what we believe and why we believe it is important. We also need to know what beliefs would cause us problems in a tightly closed community.

 

Remember this is NOT a religious website so we need to be careful how we approach this topic.

 

Now I'll get out of the way and let the posts continue.

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Sorry about that Capt Bart,

If I've erred into troubled waters please take the thread down. I had had no intent of causing any sort of incitement that compromises the integrity of this community, I was looking at things in a more investigative and introspective light.

 

Your 25 years of experience as a minister I'll gladly admit give you a better perspective on the matter and better judgment.

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As a Christian, A BOB bag and all this gear is not essential for survival. When you go, you go- To a much better place.

Spreading these beliefs is essential, to assist in saving others souls. A apocolapse sitiutaion will result in survivors, that will the rebuild society, and incur a 1000 year era of peace.

 

Not to be disrespectful dk564. But i'm curious as to how you intend to survive after TSHF or something worse happens. Since in your opinion a BOB and it's contents are not needed. I will add this the first thing that went in my BOB was a Bible vacuum sealed to protect it.

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I'm a Christian, I believe God will take care of me, I also prepare for everything I can. I carry a gun, knife, Get Home bag, and I have AAA. The point is that while I trust in God, I know that God also expects me to be prepared and help myself.

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My respects Capt Bart

 

and to everyone in the room thank you for your patients and open mind.

religion is a very touchy subject and my views are mine and I do not expect anyone to

totally agree in some cases I could be mistaken but that is why it should be verified by

each person I am not a clergy but like a person who found a good deal I just want to

let everyone know about it.

and of course this should be a personal decision without pressure or regret.

 

I hoped to give some information that I feel gives some proof of the history of biblical

accounts that have been rejected by mainstream media and academia as they attempt

to keep science and religion separate and it should be as long as it does not suppress

facts that they find, of which there have been more each year.

and as we all know the some in the media are very anti Christian so we must dig to learn.

I am not qualified to write about most of the scientific finds so I refer you to this site

 

http://www.reasons.org/

 

A recent interview of the scientists that tested the shroud of Turin

{probably spelled it wrong} there now is reason to believe that the test swatches

were from repair areas and not the undamaged original sheet I watched it and

am looking forward to new information it looked promising.

 

To all that have not found a reason to believe don't stop it is like anything

else one day there it is some revelation or catharsis to open eyes and hearts.

 

and of course all of this is my personal opinion and I am not associated with SC

except that I joined and enjoy posting and reading varied ideas and found it to be

fair and reasonable as well as responsible a very good site.

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Not to be disrespectful dk564. But i'm curious as to how you intend to survive after TSHF or something worse happens. Since in your opinion a BOB and it's contents are not needed. I will add this the first thing that went in my BOB was a Bible vacuum sealed to protect it.

 

Now thats a good idea, I am going to do that too.

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I totaly agree.

"I do think that our faith is a major part of what will keep us 'human' after TSHTF. We tend to follow our childhood beliefs when we get older. The difference is that as mature adults, we have reasons for our faith other than momma said so. I also think that a wildly different set of beliefs can tear a group apart. For that reason, knowing what we believe and why we believe it is important. We also need to know what beliefs would cause us problems in a tightly closed community"Capt Bart.

 

In my 58 years I have seen and read to many times about someone breaking up a good congreation just because of "I want this to be done this way"I personaly Know about a church spliting because of a disagreement on where to put the "Coat Hanger in the mens room"..

 

Lets just keep our Faith in balance with reality and use the spirtural maturity that we have worked on.

JMHO...Now go wash somebody feet....................:}

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I picked up a cambridge KJV bible on friday, and actually started to read it. Im not too sure if I have missed something but can some one tell me why it lists everyone's kids? I havent been to church in a long time so I figured here would be a good spot to ask a few questions.

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It starts as a history of Family.

 

JMHO..try starting at the Middle..New Testament ..maybe like the book of John..and pray before you read to get a better handle of understanding whats going on..JMHO..you do whats best for you..Pm me if you want other translations..I have most of them and they are free.. Enjoy

Matt

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It starts as a history of Family.

 

JMHO..try starting at the Middle..New Testament ..maybe like the book of John..and pray before you read to get a better handle of understanding whats going on..JMHO..you do whats best for you..Pm me if you want other translations..I have most of them and they are free.. Enjoy

Matt

What he said. The OT sets the foundation for everything that comes in the NT. Some parts of the OT are pretty interesting, but other parts, like lineage are boring. The NT is more interesting, for lack of a better term, but there is still important stuff in the OT. Try one of those reading programs, it kinda skips around, so you don't get bogged down on 4 chapters of this person whose name I can't pronounce begat this person whose name I also can't pronounce.

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Sorry about that Capt Bart,

If I've erred into troubled waters please take the thread down. I had had no intent of causing any sort of incitement that compromises the integrity of this community, I was looking at things in a more investigative and introspective light.

 

Your 25 years of experience as a minister I'll gladly admit give you a better perspective on the matter and better judgment.

 

No problem, Tom. It is just a little before I was ready for it to start. It's started so I'll go with the flow. It is said if you want to hear God laugh, just tell him your plans. I suspect He got a good laugh out of my plans for this thread.

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Just a question, is there anything you HAVEN'T done lol. You've been a busy guy.

 

I have had an eclectic life. Either that or I still haven't figured out what I want to be when I grow up! I do know I don't want to be a doctor! In RVN I delivered a baby (scared me to death but that's a war story) and had friends in the 24th EVAC hospital that I helped on an occasion or two (I always managed to faint after the emergency was over!) but I would make a REALLY bad doctor. I will say it has been one heck of an "E" ticket ride.

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I picked up a cambridge KJV bible on friday, and actually started to read it. Im not too sure if I have missed something but can some one tell me why it lists everyone's kids? I havent been to church in a long time so I figured here would be a good spot to ask a few questions.

Terrance,

In Genesis, God promises to Adam that a descendent would reverse the curse of his sin. As the story unfolds, we find that Adam's descendents would time and time again break the covenant God made with them, the effects of the sin continue. With Abram, God makes a new covenant with his sons and renames Abram, Abraham. It is this covenant relationship with God that is important. An observant Jew can list his genealogy back to Abraham. It identifies him as a member of the People of God and a partaker in the covenant. Notice in the New Testament, Matthew wrote his account for the Jewish people. He lists the genealogy of Jesus to prove that he is the "son of David" who is to rule on His father's throne for ever. These genealogies are important in many ways, but they are also written for a different way of life than we live. The tribe was/is everything. While we should read through it, don't get trapped in trying to sort it out; at least until you are very mature reader of scripture. There is a world of difference between reading scripture to do "scholarly" research, reading scripture for self enlightenment, and using scripture for prayer. (Remember the psalms are prayers written mostly by David, usually set to music).

 

One thing to think about; reading the Bible from front to back messes up the timeline and can be very confusing. Some of the prophets were sent to Juda and some to Israel. (Northern and Southern kingdoms) Knowing WHEN a book was written and for whom it was written can help you understand what is going on. There are some guides out there for who wrote for what. The ones I know are by Catholic authors but if you look up bible timelines you should be able to find them. Just remember, the order in the Bible is different from the order in time after the book of Joshua.

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I picked up a cambridge KJV bible on friday, and actually started to read it. Im not too sure if I have missed something but can some one tell me why it lists everyone's kids? I havent been to church in a long time so I figured here would be a good spot to ask a few questions.

 

Remember I am not Clergy but an old man years ago I asked the same question.

 

he smacked me upside the head {jokingly} and said it is the family tree of Jesus Christ

 

Adam to David to Jesus and I have not had anyone dispute this but verify this yourself.

 

Glad you are reading The Bible there is a fact that I just recalled I heard it some time back

 

that science states that there is a blood barrier between the mother and the child.

 

Because the birth was an immaculate conception therefore Jesus is an individual

 

and as I am not sure if Mary is half of the genetic code or not Maybe someone can

 

weight in here and give some scripture to back it up.

 

Jesus can be singular as in born of A woman and is a part of the family but not blood

 

relation and I as well as any one I have spoken to we understand that God is Spirit Christ is

 

Flesh and the Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus Christ {I am guessing here it is Christ Spirit he

sent to minister to US}.

 

And They are three but ONE IE the {Trinity} and some versions of Christianity have other

 

views because of Jesus Christ is stated to sit at Gods right hand.

 

I probably took it further than needed but this is My Humble Opinion and what I have been

 

led to understand.

 

And I watched as some impressive scientist expressed that Gravity and other phenomena

 

do not explain atoms and how they combine to make water or what ever because

 

no mater what the balance remains constant like the world remains 70% water and

 

X% of each of the other minerals etc.. so many bugs so many animals they got very

 

deep into this but yet water oxidizes iron but yet water remains constant %wise.

 

I was like ACK the cat if you have ever seen the cartoon Amazed but confused because

 

after the show I realized that the population is growing and a person is mostly water

 

so just keep rolling it around in your mind and crunching some basic percentages and

 

then they threw in that there must be a God particle and it is unseen and that the

 

space between the atoms and in the universe were interesting to them now and how

 

the relationship remains constant as in water is water and gold is gold on down the line

 

and how in testing asteroids and other fallen objects that there have been no real

 

NEW materials, minerals thus far {this is what I got from the interview}.

 

I love to hear and learn about God and Jesus and science and the universe it is

 

very interesting to me IMHO.

 

I might have gotten a horse before a cart here ans there but it should give anyone pause

 

on how truly amazing it all is.

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