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PatzerDave

Old gold for new silver

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Recently my wife and I were talking about the need to stock up on some silver. Fortunately my wife is on board with prepping (my father in law is a prepper - in fact part of her "dowry" included thousands of rounds of ammo). My wife had some old gold jewelry that she didn't wear anymore and didn't mind parting with. With the price of gold being as high as it is right now we thought it would be a good time to sell it. We went to a local dealer today and traded her old bracelets, earrings, and necklaces for some silver. To be honest it didn't seem like that much. But because gold is so high right now we ended up with three rolls of Silver Eagles (20 1 oz. coins per roll) and two ten ounce bars (and a couple bucks in our pocket). Eighty ounces of silver for some old jewelry, not bad. Because it was a barter transaction there was no sales tax (also no tax for sales over $1,500) and no paperwork. I know gold jewelry can used for barter, but because of odd pieces, different karats, and golds higher value, I think silver coins and bars are more straight forward. So if you guys have some old gold kicking around it's something to think about.

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Excelet Idea.

Its a safe bet that Gold will get so high you will be wondering how to make change for an ounce of Gold.Silver should be part of the plan no matter what happens,its always has worth.My wife says"OOOH Shiney"'.

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PatzerDave,

I don't remember seeing your posts before. Welcome, sir. I completely agree. Gas may get to $1 a gallon in silver coin but if all you have is an oz of gold, I suspect that is what the price of gas will be! Gold is an economic thing to protect assets if TEOTWAWKI does NOT happen. Great depression and relatively quick recovery makes Gold very, very valuable. If there is no quick recovery I think silver will be considerably more useful. If I had gold it would be as a get out of the country bribe, and in something that would leave no doubt it was gold. If that is not in your plans, then, to me, silver does make more sense. Both if you can afford it but a stack of newly minted Silver Eagles is a great investment. No doubt about what it is and it is small enough you can buy things without wiping out your entire reserve. It has also never been illegal to own silver; it has been illegal to own gold on occasion. Silver works in any country, anywhere. You can't eat it but you can trade for a great many things with it. Ultimately, if you had no other recourse, you could melt it down into slugs - Hey if it was good enough for the Lone Ranger, it is good enough for me!

 

If you inherit or pick up at a garage sale a large supply of junk jewelry, it might pay to have an honest appraisal done. Most is probably junk and you've wasted some money but occasionally there is a real stone in with the glass.

 

A good thread, thank you for sharing.

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Capt. bart, you'd be surprised how many times people will sell valuable jewelry at garage sales for pennies. A friend of mine got a 14K men's necklace for 25 cents!! Ok, this is how you figure gold's value in jewelry:

10K has approx. 33% gold

14K has 58.3%

18K has 75%

A reputable gold buyer will usually pay about 80% of value and should always test and weigh it in front of the seller.

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I really do wish I was smart enough to grasp economics the value of silver when there's a food shortage doesn't make sense to me, but I've never understood the fascination with sparkly bits like diamonds and gold either. If someone would be willing to explain the value in layman's terms I would appreciate it.

 

I've tried to read up on it, but sadly, I have trouble getting my brain around the practicality and innate value of precious metal and jewels.

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I really do wish I was smart enough to grasp economics the value of silver when there's a food shortage doesn't make sense to me, but I've never understood the fascination with sparkly bits like diamonds and gold either. If someone would be willing to explain the value in layman's terms I would appreciate it.

 

I've tried to read up on it, but sadly, I have trouble getting my brain around the practicality and innate value of precious metal and jewels.

 

It's simple. It is worth precisely what the buyer and seller agree it is worth; no more and no less. When there is a "market" to check then you can set the value but on a barter deal, if I'm trading you food for silver it is because I have more food than I need and I am guessing that the silver will increase in value or is usable for something I don't have enough of like salt.

 

If I don't have any excess or I see no value in having the silver, no trade. Without the global market to set prices, it is simply scarcity and need. Platinum may make economic sense but not survival sense for example. It isn't easily recognized, it can't be used for much, and it will be difficult to trade. Valuable only AFTER the recovery is well under way.

 

Silver can be used in medicine, trade, ammo, wire, a slew of uses. Valuable in its own right and good post TSHTF.

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Just out of curiosity how much is a roll of silver eagles?

Haven't checked lately but since silver is $33 an oz I'd expect around $1500 plus or minus commission. Call your local coin/gold dealer and ask. they should give you a price.

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I got educated by a coin guy today. Silver was at $33.19 when I spoke to him. He said he sells silver eagles (99.99% pure) at $5 over, so that would be $38.19 each. He mentioned that silver eagles have collector value too, so that's why he asks +$5. He said regular silver dollars can be had at +$3, or $36.19 each. I'm going to go that route since I'm not a "collector". He was sensitive to the prepping lifestyle, in fact he bought it up, referring to "crisis situations".

 

He recommended 1/2 of one's cache be in 1 oz. ingots (but says beware of e-bay), 1/4 in silver dollars and 1/4 junk silver (pre '64 quarters and dimes which are 90% silver). I'll probably weight my cache more like a third, a third and a third. Properly sized clear plastic tubes are available for the coins. The ingots look to be about the size of a small .22 LR box

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It's simple. It is worth precisely what the buyer and seller agree it is worth; no more and no less. When there is a "market" to check then you can set the value but on a barter deal, if I'm trading you food for silver it is because I have more food than I need and I am guessing that the silver will increase in value or is usable for something I don't have enough of like salt.

 

If I don't have any excess or I see no value in having the silver, no trade. Without the global market to set prices, it is simply scarcity and need. Platinum may make economic sense but not survival sense for example. It isn't easily recognized, it can't be used for much, and it will be difficult to trade. Valuable only AFTER the recovery is well under way.

 

Silver can be used in medicine, trade, ammo, wire, a slew of uses. Valuable in its own right and good post TSHTF.

 

That actually does clear the issue a bit for me. The few things I've tried reading about the value of silver all focused on global economy and never mentioned barter value.

 

It's much appreciated Capt Bart.

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I really do wish I was smart enough to grasp economics the value of silver when there's a food shortage doesn't make sense to me, but I've never understood the fascination with sparkly bits like diamonds and gold either. If someone would be willing to explain the value in layman's terms I would appreciate it.

 

I've tried to read up on it, but sadly, I have trouble getting my brain around the practicality and innate value of precious metal and jewels.

 

VT, Capt Bart's explanation is very good but here's an excerpt from the book "Survivors" from James Wesley Rawles on the subject of Silver. A letter from a father to his sons.

 

My Dear Sons:

It was my intention to give you these coins when you’d both graduated from high school, but back then I had my doubts about your maturity, so I decided to hold on to them until after you earned your commissions.

 

I want you to appreciate these silver quarters for what they really are—-not just an investment, and not just a “family heirloom”. They represent REAL money. Pardon the lecture, but you need to judge their value four ways—in terms of wages, manufactured goods, services and real property.

 

First, let's look at wages. Back "in the old days"--say before World War I--the average wage for a working man was around one silver dollar a day. One day's wage right now for someone that works at a minimum wage job (at $7.25 per hour) is $58 for an eight hour work day. A more typical wage for a workman with experience is around $11 per hour ($88 per day.) One dollar (face value) in 90% silver pre-1965 coinage contains 22.5 grams of silver, or 0.7234 troy ounces per dollar face value. Today's spot price of silver is $17.55 per Troy ounce. So that makes a pre-inflation Dollar (a true DOLLAR in silver coin) worth $12.79. (Or just think of it as roughly 13 times $1 in face value-- "13 times face", whether it is silver dimes, quarters, or half dollars.) So, to put things in perspective, it takes $6.76 in Pre-'65 silver coinage to equal one typical day's wages ($88 in the current fiat paper money). Thus, in terms of wages silver should have a spot value about five or six times it current value. By this measure, silver in now grossly under-valued.

 

Next, manufactured goods. In 1964 (the last year that silver coins were in general circulation in the U.S.), a basic blued-steel Colt Model 1911 .45 automatic pistol cost around $65 retail. Today, a comparable Colt M1911 (a Series 80) costs around $775 retail. So if you were to sell $65 face value of this cache of silver coinage at your local coin shop, and they offered you 12 times "face"--that would net you $780 in the current funny money. You could then easily go buy a .45 at your local gun shop with the proceeds. The bottom line: it is not pistols that have gone UP in price. Rather, it is paper dollars that have gone DOWN in purchasing power.

How about services? In 1964, a haircut cost around 75 cents, or perhaps $1 in the big city. My last haircut cost $14. I suspect that other services are comparable, whether it is your local dentist or your local brothel. (I trust and pray that neither of you will ever use the latter service.)

Now let's look at the relative values of silver coinage and real property: In 1964, the median house price in the U.S. was around $18,000. Today, it is around $170,000. (A 9.4x increase.) If you had set aside $18,000 face value in silver coins in 1964 (18 bags of $1,000 face value each), and held them until the present day, they'd net you around $216,000 if you sold them to a bullion coin dealer. That is enough for an above average house. So obviously silver coins have held their value far better than paper dollars. Anyone who sits on PAPER dollars for very long--at least dollars that aren't earning much interest--is a fool.

I hope and pray that you keep investing in silver. You should acquire much more than this little nestegg.

In my opinion, you can trust tangibles (like silver and guns), but you shouldn't put much trust in paper currency in the long term. To safeguard your net worth in the inflationary days to come, always remember: Don't leave your earnings in paper money for long. As quickly as possible, convert it into tangibles, to protect your savings from the ravages of inflation. Consumer price inflation is mild now, but that probably won't be the case in the near future. So adjust your way of thinking and doing business, accordingly.

Never forget: Inflation is a hidden form of taxation!

Divide these coins equally between you. Spend them wisely, and up until the day that the balloon goes up, spend them only as a last resort. And never forget their REAL worth.

Love, Dad

 

As Lars tucked the letter back into the envelope, he said resolutely, “Yeah, dad, you were right.”

 

By the way, today, (02/23) silver is over $35 an ounce. Double what it was when JWR wrote this.

Edited by PatzerDave

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I got educated by a coin guy today. Silver was at $33.19 when I spoke to him. He said he sells silver eagles (99.99% pure) at $5 over, so that would be $38.19 each. He mentioned that silver eagles have collector value too, so that's why he asks +$5. He said regular silver dollars can be had at +$3, or $36.19 each. I'm going to go that route since I'm not a "collector". He was sensitive to the prepping lifestyle, in fact he bought it up, referring to "crisis situations".

 

He recommended 1/2 of one's cache be in 1 oz. ingots (but says beware of e-bay), 1/4 in silver dollars and 1/4 junk silver (pre '64 quarters and dimes which are 90% silver). I'll probably weight my cache more like a third, a third and a third. Properly sized clear plastic tubes are available for the coins. The ingots look to be about the size of a small .22 LR box

 

Mike, in my area uncirculated Silver Eagles are going for $3 above spot. The $3 is the "premium" for minting the coins and I suppose the dealers cut. If you sell coins back to the dealer you won't get the premium back. And like femvet recommended the dealer tested ( with acid ) and weighed the jewelry in front of us and payed us 80% ( or rather gave us the value in trade ).

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Do not buy the new eagles!!!!!!!!!!! All dealers charge a premium over spot because they calculate a collector premium. The best value is for pre '64 "junk silver". A good/reliable source is kitco.com. Depending on how much you want to spend, you can get $100, $500 and $1,000 (face value) bags. Make sure you have your other preps first, just in case the brown stuff hits the oscillator!

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PatzerDave ..Welcome and finally someone who could lay out the "Real" value of silver..Thanks much.I have been watching the silver market for over a year.

Recentley things have been offered that I never thought wood.

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/specials.php

Fractional Silver Pack: 164 Pieces....So somebody sees a market and is adjusting to it..

Talking to wife about old gold today/Again thanks..

Edited by 101matt

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PatzerDave ..Welcome and finally someone who could lay out the "Real" value of silver..Thanks much.I have been watching the silver market for over a year.

Recentley things have been offered that I never thought wood.

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/specials.php

Fractional Silver Pack: 164 Pieces....So somebody sees a market and is adjusting to it..

Talking to wife about old gold today/Again thanks..

 

This looks pretty cool. The only thing I worry about with the "unofficial" bullion is in a barter situation people might balk at it if they're not certain it's genuine and they can't test it. Obviously anything can be faked but I think people might be more comfortable with Silver Eagles and junk coins. Femvet suggests that junk coins are a better deal than Eagles and she may be right, but dealers will charge you extra regardless because they need to make money too. These bars and rounds might be good if you had your own test kit (which is a good idea for your own purposes anyway ) and you could test it in front of the people you're trying to trade with.

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I have to admit that the whole precious metal thing is confusing to me. I understand "fiat currency". But are any post 1965 coins worth anything? Is this considered "junk silver"? Will it be worth stockpiling todays coins ? What about pennys?

If tshtf and paper is useless will the coins still hold any value?

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biblenguns,

 

Post 1965 coins aren't really worth much of anything. Obviously, for most disasters, any cash is better than nothing, but pre-1965 coins had 90% silver, post-1965 didn't. The pre-1965 coins are called "junk silver" because they're not pure silver, but they still work well for prepper purposes because there's enough silver in them to retain value.

 

 

Of course, when it comes to silver, I've always had my doubts on precious metals and their value post TEOTWAWKI. When people are hungry, they could give a flip about a shiny piece of metal, regardless of what it is. However, there are scenarios where they would be incredibly useful. I personally think it's best to make sure your other preps are in order before worrying to much about silver.

 

But that's just me ;)

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Of course, when it comes to silver, I've always had my doubts on precious metals and their value post TEOTWAWKI. When people are hungry, they could give a flip about a shiny piece of metal, regardless of what it is. However, there are scenarios where they would be incredibly useful. I personally think it's best to make sure your other preps are in order before worrying to much about silver.

 

Certainly you can't eat or drink Silver, or use it to protect yourself, but you can buy all of these things with Silver. I agree that basic essentials take priority and you should make sure you have these squared away first. But in TEOTWAWKI I can see the need for a currency arising fairly quickly - you need something from me and I need something from someone else and so on. Also, there are different scenarios we might encounter, maybe not everything will be TEOTWAWKI. In the "Modern Survivalist" blog by FerFal, (if you're not familiar he is an Argentinian who blogs about his experiences with the economic collapse they went through) he talks about people using silver and jewelry, (he says wedding bands are good) for barter in impromptu flea markets after the currency became devalued.

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I cashed in the gold today.$400.for stuff thats been laying around.

We paid some bills early and I get a Alice pack for $40.00.Part goes to the saving for her 9mm Ruger,she want 15 in the clip.I wont argue.

So again thanks. Now for you all to deside :Tooth or Tail:

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Certainly you can't eat or drink Silver, or use it to protect yourself, but you can buy all of these things with Silver. I agree that basic essentials take priority and you should make sure you have these squared away first. But in TEOTWAWKI I can see the need for a currency arising fairly quickly - you need something from me and I need something from someone else and so on. Also, there are different scenarios we might encounter, maybe not everything will be TEOTWAWKI. In the "Modern Survivalist" blog by FerFal, (if you're not familiar he is an Argentinian who blogs about his experiences with the economic collapse they went through) he talks about people using silver and jewelry, (he says wedding bands are good) for barter in impromptu flea markets after the currency became devalued.

 

I'm not saying there are no circumstances where it will be useful, I just think it's utility is overstated is all. FerFal has a great deal of experience to impart because he actually survived an economic collapse. However, economic collapses are among the few circumstances where I can see silver being incredibly useful. Many other circumstances, I just don't see people parting with needed commodities for something they can't use except to trade again.

 

That's not to say stocking up on silver isn't a good precaution. I think it is. I just think that far to many people (and I'm not pointing at anyone in particular with this comment) focus on silver and don't take care of the essentials first. Food, toilet paper, things like that can always be traded as well to those who need them, and I see a lot more circumstances where folks will need those things than silver coins. However, as a hedge against economic problems, precious metals are hard to beat.

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Went and got some junk silver coins today. got 8 dollars in silver coinage for 200. assorted quarters and half dollars. looking to get some small ingots in the near future, but have no idea where to go.

 

Hi DocWalt81: Assuming you visited a coin shop, did you happen to ask them about the ingots? The coin shop I visited a few weeks ago had them

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Yeah went to a coin shop, didnt ask about ingots. will prob ask about em next time i go. I just hate goin anywhere I cant bring my gun. ofc i dont have to obey the sign on the door but i do out of courtesy.

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