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Tryn2Survive

Caught Unarmed

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well guys gotta be honest, the other night I felt like I was caught with my pants down (not literally) I was walking out to my car to go see my girlfriend at about 11p.m. and as I entered the parking lot of my apartment complex I saw a group of guys hangin around a car parked about three spaces down from me, immediatley I reached for my pocket where I knew my closest knife would be, only to remember I left it on my dresser. so the first thought that went through my head was, what can i use to defend myself? so guys (and girls) my question to you is, if you had you're choice between about a pound of keys on a lanyard, your wallet, or your bare hands, whats your weapon of choice?

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Guest survival101

It's unlikely that a wallet would be an adequate defense for a woman. Because a group of guys might not settle for the wallet alone. For a woman, the keys, I think. She's likely to inflict greater harm with them than without them. Assuming she hasn't got the option to walk away from the situation. Her feet might be the best choice. Head to the nearest well-lit and populated area. Avoid the conflict. Outweighed and outnumbered, she's not likely to win.

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First I'd avoid it all together by turning around , going back inside and retrieve my knife . If they follow ,put keys between fingers , make a fist and there is nothing wrong with running back to your place . Outnumbered as it is , that would be a good choice, just be ready for defense if they catch up to you. If they do catch you , fight like hell and make a ally of noise so at least someone might hear you

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first off defending yourself without much of a weapon, unless you are a martial arts expert, against numbers greater than your own would be difficult. With what you mentioned I would use the lanyard of keys because it has reach for whiping it around, use the lanyard for grabbing, wrapping around writs, throat and such. But unless you have practice doing these things it would still be an outnumbered fight. I hate to be a victim but if there were three guys that wanted my wallet and even if I had my knife on me I'm not sure I would pull it right off the bat, they might just take the wallet and walk, if I pull a knife then things can get much more serious. I would have my hand on it just in case after giving them the wallet things went south because I would put up a fight then. Remember that debit cards and credit cards can all be canceled and renewed, I'd rather lose a few bucks and a little bit of pride then some teeth or worse.

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we have all been there. Forgotten item needed asap. For me there is always a plan b, plan c and plan d. As for getting into hand to hand combat i would leave that as a last resort. They best fight you will ever have is the one you were able get away from.

to answer your ? i would pick the keys and add my feet.

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keys in palm of hand make fist with 1 or two keys protruding from between fingers if running dont work hit em in the eye, take their eye out chances are they stop, if not , next one in the throat...fight for your life, because you are.

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Thanks for the replies guys! always enjoys to hear the opinions, and no worries rick I always keep and 8 inch full tang hunting knife right next to the front seat of the car simply because I'm not old enough to conceal carry. but thanks again for the replies, keep em coming!

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Obviously it's best to avoid, but if you can't fight dirty. I think a couple keys in protruding from your fist is good. Also you can stab with a pen. Another good place to attack are the knees. A knee can take 3,500 lbs. of pressure from the front. However, it only takes 15 lbs. of pressure from the side to break a knee. A low hard kick or stomp to the side of somebodies knee will inflict serious pain and damage. It also makes it hard for them to chase you.

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i would rather use my hands honestly. my suggestion is you also keep something in the car as well bro.

 

Tinderwolf can supply you guys with a rather nifty monkeyfist, which could serve nicely in this situation

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watch out for the knife and check you laws

 

a good walking cane or a good quality umbrella

 

a big knife is a magnate for cops they will tear your car apart

a machete shovel and some gloves covers you pretty good

just say your going to help do some yard work

 

in the old days a car antenna was the weapon of choice in a parking lot or a trash can lid

now everything is plastic or a nub and street fighting today will get you shot unless you are

mean as hell or a high level martial artist give them the wallet

always avoid a fight my wallet has a 20 in it and business cards everything of value in in a big

paper clip in my front pocket....

 

a fight is a crap shoot if all three have knifes or guns your in deep quick never attack

first judo and jujitsu teach this as well as many martial arts as taking a opponent off

guard and make a disabling strike unless your trained its doubtful you will keep

him out of the fight and in a three on one, one of them has to go and stay down

or your ass is grass if they got any smarts at all.

and if your successful you better call the cops quick because they will and 3 against one in court

ain't no fun either and criminals LIE "go figure" so if you do kick ass if your not savvy

here comes the law for you.

criminal are funny if they kill cripple or kick the snot out of you they get street cred's if you kick their

ass then you have made them punks they do not like that and next time you will have more to fight

or they will use the law against you {been there done that}.

 

a roll of dimes in a leather glove is a hell of a weapon but if your not knowledgeable you can kill someone

that is why black jacks were outlawed head strikes are a no no, even if your right using a weapon

like this can still put you in hot water and it will leave a mark and break bones.

a roll of dimes in your fist will probably break your fingers and or knuckles unless your a farm boy

and your hands are use to abuse.

 

I use to carry a San Antone suppository, lead {Babbitt}slug as big as a roll of dimes rounded on each end.

bars were the only pool halls and thugs like hanging out in them so when making the rounds to play pool

I had my slug in my watch pocket of my jeans.

and those old boys never fought fair or as singles so a buck knife was the assisted opener of the day.

bikers liked to hang out in these joints too so unless you were ready for some action best stay home

but we did not have cable TV back in the day so Friday and Saturday night entertainment was the

bar scene.

and you only had to be 18 and flush with money and you be honkey tonkin' LOL

I sure miss those days when men were men even at 18 most all of us worked in the oilfield or ranching

or warehouses as kids so we were no push overs at 18 its a totally different world today.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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Guest survival101

Spouse weighs in. Be Aware of your surroundings. Have the keys in your hand? Use the car alarm if you have one. Guy says to the woman, give me what's in your purse? Open it and throw that Roll of Quarters we've been discussing at the nearest plate glass window if in town, or, at the nearest high dollar model of car. An alarm might give you time to escape, or them to run.

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just double check yourself before you leave the house. put a note on the door on the inside to remind you to double check your carry.

I can see the in law's faces now, after a nice visit and dinner at home they put their coats, say their goodbyes and reach for the door knob when they see a not that says "Don't forget your gun, two exta mags and a butterfly knife! Two is one and one is none!"

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Just get a key chain pepper spray device. My wife has one and as a cop that has used pepper spray and been sprayed with it many times for the most part it will stop anyone in their tracks no hand to hand combat needed. Remember most states have laws that require you to try and retreat if at all possible. If the cops think that you at anytime became the aggresser and started kicking their butts you may open yourself up to assault charges. I dont like it and I am all for waxing someones butt if they attack you, but in this stupid political correct world we live in thats just how it is. Unless you live in Texas that it is I hear they are all about the butt kicking their. Haha.

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IF you have somehow stumbled upon the situation you listed, and IF you cannot reasonably extricate yourself before honorable hand to hand combat is met, I would suggest the following. Do not be a hero. One fighting many is a losing proposition. Especially in a parking lot, late at night. Be loud, and obnoxious. Scream profanities, and anything you can think of. Draw attention to yourself, and try and disengage. If you cannot disengage, use the terrain to your advantage, and bottle neck your adversaries if at all possible (one vs many, remember?) to make it one on one. Dial 911, and put it on speaker, place it someplace where it will pick up everything, and get ready to unleash your own version of hell. OR, just remember your knife, pay attention to your surroundings, and ensure you see them before they see you. then you can just avoid it. I always leave my knife in my pants, so I never forget it. three inches of steel is better than three inches of fist any day. But if you haven't already, learn how to fight with a knife, and train in the art. Its more than just stabbing and slashing.

this is actually pretty good to start with (pardon the guys mannerisms.) hope this helps.

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I'd say decide immediately what you're willing to lose in the face of grievous bodily injury or possibly death, give anything up to that point. When weighed a lot of people may find their willing to give anything and everything, up to and including their dignity. It's an ugly pride crushing truth, but survival at any cost is more important to some than others.

 

On the other hand, assuming you decide to fight you need to keep control of yourself in this situation, it's going to be hard once your heart rate hits 170+. Try to initiate with the most brutal and overwhelming method at your disposal.

 

I prefer my hands, because once the adrenalin start pumping any cool moves with a key lanyard are going to turn in frantic whipping motions, and balling them in my fist is going to impair my ability to trap and break limbs, gouge eyes, rip ears and groins, etc...

 

When your vision narrows it's going to be even harder to keep tabs on all of your attackers, but do the best you can, keep moving to get them strung out and in you field of vision, and don't swing at random any wasted movements at this point are going to cost you precious energy and you're going to need it so that when you do strike out you can load up with show stoppers, trying to put them down, one after another in the nastiest fashion possible. If you gouge out their buddies eye permanently maiming him its going to shock them, impairing their moral.

 

You also need to set it in your mind by this point that you are going to get hurt, badly, and you probably will. The one occasion I found myself in a situation like this years ago I ended up in the ER over forty dollars and my pride, I kept both but in retrospect I'm not sure it was worth it.

 

I hope no one gets the impression that I'm one of those tough guy knuckleheads, I'm not, I've just managed to make a lot of foolish decisions and survive them.

 

As for suggestions of making noise and such, in a lot of metro areas folks tend to outright ignore it. Some years back if I recall we had a man beaten to death by a group of thugs in the middle of the downtown party area in front of 200+ witnesses and no one did a thing about it.

 

Alright, putting away the soap box now.

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I know it sound cliche, but I really never leave without a weapon. Its like putting on my pants, knife in right front pocket, Emerson Karambit left back pocket, sidearm right side. Hell I carry the damn thing around my house, I'm not gonna forget it going out. I do however forget I'm wearing it sometimes haha. Just for the sake of argument though, keys between the fingers work well, but I think that would be a last resort.

 

Here's the thing, in a fight, fine motor skills are out the window. While in the movies it may look cool to get the wrist lock or wrap a tie around a dude's wrist and throw him, that;s highly unlikely. Also, while your fists are effective weapons, if you miss the soft portion of the face and hit the hard portion of the skull, your hand's small bones are going to lose the fight against the other person's skull. In Krav, we learn to punch, but we much prefer a palm strike. It takes some practice to get right, but they're as effective if not more so. Its a wider area, meatier (so if you hit the hard part of the head it won't break anything) and it works about anywhere. Nose, throat, jaw/mouth/teeth, ears/side of head, sternum/chest to gain distance. Elbows, knees, shins, feet, and head are all weapons. Palm strike to the nose, knee to the groin and slam as hard as you can on their shin/foot, or better yet kick straight out (like you would kick down a door) straight to their knee. Your goal is to disable them from chasing you, messing up their knee or foot accomplishes that goal. Giving them a bloody nose or a throbbing groin, distracts them long enough to gain the upper hand.

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Jon you bring up a good point about punching. I boxed for a bit when I was a lot younger, and even guys who would literally throw thousands of punches a day in training the incidence of hand an wrist injury was mind boggling. This was with hand and wrist wraps to add support and gloves to take some of the jarring shock out of it.

 

Knees, elbows, and shins are a heck of a lot more durable when used as a striking surface. Learning how to snap out a good cut kick, or thrust kick can be a lot more useful than hay-bailing.

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I agree with the punching. In the Marines they had us do bag drills, and one thing I realized once I started working over the boxing dummy at school, is that punching sucks hind tit. i started messing around, and found that palming the heck out of my target was much easier on my body, and actually allowed me to deliver more energy to the target (after punching, the boxing dummy would right itself, after palming it, I had to right the dummy.) In all the sparring I have done, i have grabbed my opponent, and even in the few fights I have been in, I grabbed my opponent. I much prefer being in close, and delivering elbows, and knees versus getting punched in the face. Every time in training that I won, it was not because i beat the living daylights out of my opponent, it was because I out fought him (mainly through speed and maneuver, not outright strength.) the main thing is to practice, and be aggressive. When you see the fight coming, and there is now way out, go for broke. This is gonna sound very Gumpish, but my momma always said, "finish the fight in three seconds, or his buddies are gonna getcha."

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I always keep my Ontario Marine fighting knife in my truck. It's my "truck knife" if you will.

I hold a First Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and taught it for four years after I received my 1st Dan. Also I was a Drill Sergeant in the Army and taught hand-to-hand combat there too. With that, I would say I am probably pretty capable at thwarting an attack- however, that's as far as I would ever take it. Thwart it- and run to your weapon or the police.

Martial arts are great in the ring to watch and "tap out" when you are down. But in real life, like this situation -or hand to hand combat- your best tactic is to get away and get to that weapon. Yell, scream, kick, hit, run-shoot.

Just two weeks ago, I was threatened by a moron at work. Never saw it coming- he was mad because I "rolled my eyes" at an off-handed inappropriate comment he made in the work environment. This guy is big into UFC and boxing and of course will list you his credentials at will- just ask. When this threat occurred, my adrenalin shot through the roof. My complex motor skills went away and tunnel vision came. As the scenario was playing out, I thought to myself "Hello Adrenalin- haven’t heard from you in a while. Glad you came back to remind me of the things I've forgotten." I diffused the situation, the guy left. But how it benefited me afterward was interesting.

1st- from my many sparring matches, almost ALWAYS- the guy flaunting his abilities get's his butt kicked. Flaunting one's abilities is a low-belt trait (white, yellow, green). Upper belts (Black, 1st, 2nd and beyond) have learned the humility needed to possess that level of skill. Flat out- accomplished martial artists NEVER flaunt their abilities (except maybe for TV). Why risk giving away your biggest advantage? I.e. surprise!

2nd-With this situation, as a martial artist- I'm going to tell you that by avoiding the fight- you already overcame the threat. Your head will keep you alive in this situation, because excessive Egoism is the end to so many good men. Keeping your ego in check, moving on to a safe place and then also keeping your family safe is HUGE and far more a measure of a man than any street brawl could be. You did the right thing, but more importantly you have now had the opportunity to tune your defenses; to find the holes in your plan. And by that- that makes you the SURPRISE and survivalist- they will never anticipate.

Semper Paratus.

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well, chances are nothing was going to happen but,if you really thought something was going to happen and there was a rock i.e. something you could throw, throw it at a neighbors window and when they are pissed off and come out to check, say the guy coming at you did it, you seen the whole thing call the cops.

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Well...in your specific situation, depending on the way the other guys are acting, I would have either

 

A) turned around and gone back for my gear, or

 

B) turned left/right as appropriate to put myself somewhere there is a terrain advantage (obstacles between me and them so I can run if need be, or keep them from surrounding me if they are clearly coming to hassle me)

 

Chances are, though, unless they suddenly act alert and focus on me (example: they are all joking and talking until they see me and then they go quiet and turn to face my direction) I would simply appear to ignore them and go to my car. They have no idea if I am carrying a weapon or not, and unless they are acting like they already plan to interact with me, all I need to do is move like I always move and get into the vehicle. In a state where concealed carry is less common, that might not be the best choice, but here in Florida the odds are pretty good that I'll be left alone unless I do something to make myself look nervous/afraid/uncertain. Once I have the car door open, they are even less likely to want to make a move, because the car usually holds more possible weapons.

 

If forced to an actual fight, I would go empty hand, over keys or a wallet. Keys offer no opportunity to grapple/lock, and the keychain/lanyard combo is likely to come apart if swung hard enough to seriously hurt anyone. Giving them my wallet signifies surrender, and unlike 20 year ago, isn't likely to end the encounter. I train regularly in PTK, so empty hands is the best option of the ones you listed.

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I always keep my Ontario Marine fighting knife in my truck. It's my "truck knife" if you will.

I hold a First Degree Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and taught it for four years after I received my 1st Dan. Also I was a Drill Sergeant in the Army and taught hand-to-hand combat there too. With that, I would say I am probably pretty capable at thwarting an attack- however, that's as far as I would ever take it. Thwart it- and run to your weapon or the police.

Martial arts are great in the ring to watch and "tap out" when you are down. But in real life, like this situation -or hand to hand combat- your best tactic is to get away and get to that weapon. Yell, scream, kick, hit, run-shoot.

Just two weeks ago, I was threatened by a moron at work. Never saw it coming- he was mad because I "rolled my eyes" at an off-handed inappropriate comment he made in the work environment. This guy is big into UFC and boxing and of course will list you his credentials at will- just ask. When this threat occurred, my adrenalin shot through the roof. My complex motor skills went away and tunnel vision came. As the scenario was playing out, I thought to myself "Hello Adrenalin- haven’t heard from you in a while. Glad you came back to remind me of the things I've forgotten." I diffused the situation, the guy left. But how it benefited me afterward was interesting.

1st- from my many sparring matches, almost ALWAYS- the guy flaunting his abilities get's his butt kicked. Flaunting one's abilities is a low-belt trait (white, yellow, green). Upper belts (Black, 1st, 2nd and beyond) have learned the humility needed to possess that level of skill. Flat out- accomplished martial artists NEVER flaunt their abilities (except maybe for TV). Why risk giving away your biggest advantage? I.e. surprise!

2nd-With this situation, as a martial artist- I'm going to tell you that by avoiding the fight- you already overcame the threat. Your head will keep you alive in this situation, because excessive Egoism is the end to so many good men. Keeping your ego in check, moving on to a safe place and then also keeping your family safe is HUGE and far more a measure of a man than any street brawl could be. You did the right thing, but more importantly you have now had the opportunity to tune your defenses; to find the holes in your plan. And by that- that makes you the SURPRISE and survivalist- they will never anticipate.

Semper Paratus.

 

That is a lot of philosophy packed into just a couple of paragraphs. I read it a couple of times. Thanks for sharing your experience EmorySr. Semper Paratus - I assume the phrase did not come from the Bexhill United Football Club. :rolleyes:

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all great points guys, using my head a little more now, if anything did happen, I'd probably go empty handed, I've been wrestling my whole life and (not meaning to sound cocky, I promise) am pretty good now in a street fight it probably wouldn't do me a whole lot of good but if its just one on one I feel confident that I can hold my own, especially on the ground.

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