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TheDefaultHuman

Body Armor?

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I have never used body armor, and the cheapest quality ones are around $700 but usually higher. Taking this into consideration, would you use body armor when SHTF? Do you have any? And would you recommend it? I mean its basically a shield against the bullet that can kill you, and all though your encumbered slightly, its still protection. Is it worth it?

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I'm not a huge expert, or any sort of expert, but i personnally think that a stab proof vest(if theres a difference) would be really useful when SHTF. When people start to get desperate, who knows what they would try to do to get the upper hand, so in my personnal opinion, yes it would be wise.

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No, it's heavy and bulky, and carrying that kind of weight would better served carrying more supplies or camo, any steel core bullet will rip through it, heavy leather jackets are stopping 9mm, .38 and lower, but a vest for 7.62x39? Nope, majority of that cheap ammo is steel core, the money would be best served buying something else in mho.

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Body armor is a smart investment. A cheap, used NIJ level II vest with a trauma plate significantly increases your chances against most handguns, some fragmentation, and an auto accident. All of those are major threats, and you can get this protection for as little as a few hundred by purchasing a police surplus vest. Other body armor solutions are going to be good choices, including new II and IIIA vests and plate carriers for rifle plates, but you need to do some threat analysis and cost/benefit considerations.

 

I'm working on getting a rifle plate carrier together instead of building a rig and wearing it over soft body armor. I've decided that's what will work for me, but that may change.

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body armor has its place but weight and the fact it slows you down is a factor to think about. i prefer speed over armor as I going to try my damndest to avoid the type of firefight where body armor would be needed.. and even if it has come to that think i would still prefer speed and extra mags over the limited protection armor offers me

 

that being said its still not an awful choice to prefer it either

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No, it's heavy and bulky, and carrying that kind of weight would better served carrying more supplies or camo, any steel core bullet will rip through it, heavy leather jackets are stopping 9mm, .38 and lower, but a vest for 7.62x39? Nope, majority of that cheap ammo is steel core, the money would be best served buying something else in mho.

 

Standard Military body armor will stop 7.62x39 at 50 yards. Still hurts like hell though.

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"But what if they had shot you in the head?

Lloyd Christmas

 

Not trying to be funny, but I would have this to the back of my list of items. I want to avoid the fight when on my own or in small group. Would be nice to have though.....

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I have a class 3 vest good up to .357. its large and unlike the newer armor has no place for a plate. I traded for it at a gun show. Its an over the garment vest which covers groin . IMO any piece of equipment that helps and not hinders you in your AO is an asset.

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Well, if they shot me in the head then whatever I'm dead.

 

If they shot me in the chest then whatever, I'm not dead.

 

Easier target to hit a chest now isn't it.

 

If I knew a battle was about to go down then I would wear a full body suit, only eyes can be hit. If I could afford it anyways.

 

The USA soldiers wear armor, and it helps them stay alive, why wouldn't I?

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I'm going to go witout. Mobility, increased load carrying, and have other items that I would spend the $700+ on. Possibility of needing is slim, etc. So my vote is for No. I plan to evade rather than fight.

 

Not to mention that the state of AL is talking about making it a restricted item. LEO's only. Apparently there has been a huge rash of bank robbers and other violent felons using body armor in the commission of crimes and it never made the press. wink, wink So it is an eminent danger and must be outlawed.

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Well, if they shot me in the head then whatever I'm dead.

 

If they shot me in the chest then whatever, I'm not dead.

 

Easier target to hit a chest now isn't it.

 

If I knew a battle was about to go down then I would wear a full body suit, only eyes can be hit. If I could afford it anyways.

 

The USA soldiers wear armor, and it helps them stay alive, why wouldn't I?

 

Do you remember who Lloyd Christmas was?

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I like this to get back on topic.

 

Taking a hit to the head, armpit, pelvis, femoral artery, these are all possibilities. But protecting a shot to center of mass, the largest target you present, this is basically what body armor provides. The question on the table is, "is that worth it?"

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For me it isn't worth it. If it gets down to those types of scenarios I have "other" things that will help me out. Not a 100% safe guard but then again neither is any armor plating.

 

First, I don't plan on leaving my home unless there is some kind of serious natural disaster. If there is that type of situation I am pretty sure that I will be gone by the time the roving hoards start taking over.

 

Second, if it comes down to that type of fight then there is going to be a little advanced notice........enough for me to alternate to plan "B". What's plan "B"? Um....well let's just say that I am capable of hardening my home.

 

Alternate plans are always a MUST when dealing with SHTF or TEOTWAWKI.

 

Armor plate on me or around my home.............hmmmmmm.;)

Edited by CCSir
'cause I can't freakin spell!

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LETS NOT ALL FORGET THAT, your not always going to be facing someone with a gun, although its almost the biggest threat. But people are going to try to shank you as well.

 

Body armor >/= bullet

 

Body armor > Knife

 

You don't have to worry about being knifed in the face right? Well not as much anyways.

 

I was looking for this video, can't find it but its from an independent movie.

 

Some guy drives a van full of explosives into the police station and kills them all, then proceeds to kill everyone he can find in the town. He has a full body armor suit on, heavy duty, and he goes into stores and just kills everyone, he gets shot at but it doesn't do anything too him.

 

The movie was very violent and it was fictional, but there IS armor in the world and sure it would weigh a lot but you would be essentially invincible. Imagine surrounding yourself in full titanium, surrounded leather and other bullet slowing materials. You would be a walking tank.

 

I know, movies aren't "Real" but you could do all that with the proper skills. Now heres a question, how would you kill someone in armor like that? And how much would it cost to make the armor?

 

Probably cost a lot lol

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LETS NOT ALL FORGET THAT, your not always going to be facing someone with a gun, although its almost the biggest threat. But people are going to try to shank you as well.

 

Body armor >/= bullet

 

Body armor > Knife

 

You don't have to worry about being knifed in the face right? Well not as much anyways.

 

I was looking for this video, can't find it but its from an independent movie.

 

Some guy drives a van full of explosives into the police station and kills them all, then proceeds to kill everyone he can find in the town. He has a full body armor suit on, heavy duty, and he goes into stores and just kills everyone, he gets shot at but it doesn't do anything too him.

 

The movie was very violent and it was fictional, but there IS armor in the world and sure it would weigh a lot but you would be essentially invincible. Imagine surrounding yourself in full titanium, surrounded leather and other bullet slowing materials. You would be a walking tank.

 

I know, movies aren't "Real" but you could do all that with the proper skills. Now heres a question, how would you kill someone in armor like that? And how much would it cost to make the armor?

 

Probably cost a lot lol

 

There is a very good History Channell show under the series "Shootout" that documents a bank robbery in California. Two guys made their own kevlar suits that covered them 99%. All that was exposed was their head, hands, feet. The show is about why cops now have .223 rifles in their cars. These guys used AK's and kepts cops out of range/harms way for a long time.

 

Good show to watch on body armor.

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There is a very good History Channell show under the series "Shootout" that documents a bank robbery in California. Two guys made their own kevlar suits that covered them 99%. All that was exposed was their head, hands, feet. The show is about why cops now have .223 rifles in their cars. These guys used AK's and kepts cops out of range/harms way for a long time.

 

Good show to watch on body armor.

 

That show was most likely based on the North Hollywood shootout. That shootout was the primary reason the shotgun was replaced by the AR-15 as the patrol long gun in the US.

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That show was most likely based on the North Hollywood shootout. That shootout was the primary reason the shotgun was replaced by the AR-15 as the patrol long gun in the US.

 

I was able to catch a run of the documentary in question a few years ago. You are correct, it was the North Hollywood Robbery. I have talked with former LEOs who were active in other parts of the country when the shootout occurred. It is amazing how things have changed in the mindset/training/equipment of LE in the past 20 or so years.

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Just my opinion, but it's based on 23 years of wearing a vest each and every working day. Being prepared can drive a person crazy when it comes to what gear to have. There are so many variables to consider. Do what you think is best for you and yours. Does body armor stop everything? Hell no! I've been to over 77 line of duty funerals in my years, and many of those heros were wearing body armor at the time of their death. Does body armor increase your chances of survival? Hell yes! I've had some personal experience with that. A vest, like any tool or system, is something that you have to get use to. There are plenty of rounds that will penetrate any vest, but in over two decades the majority of weapons that I've come across on the streets probably would not defeat a properly worn and fitted vest. Shot at with a high velocity rifle round? O.K. then the naysayers win. In that case you might as well have gone to the gunfight naked, but in Most real life scenarios, body armor has proven itself under the most horrifying of circumstances. What's worse .... some heat and minor discomfort.... or a sucking chest wound?

Be Prepared!

Quiet Man

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Something I don't hear talked about are ballistic steel plates, they seem like the only TEOTWAKI option. Ceramic obviously are fragile and can be compromised without your knowledge by internal cracks unless you can regularly X ray them. Steel ones tend to be very heavy and have a reputation for splattering rounds up into your neck, but a rifle hit to the heart means you're dead anyways. Buying full outer Kevlar and a helmet is much more conspicuous to the privacy invaders than a concealed vest, or for that matter not having body armor. Remember, you are a needle in a haystack of gun owners. When a IIIA military style vest shows up to your door, along with a helmet, and maybe even some rifle plates (anything above IIIA has stricter travel laws) you'll be throwing up a huge red flag. If someone is looking to be the gray man in SHTF, I'd recommend a concealed vest, especially bc they are coming out with IIIA concealed these days; just understand that a thin vest means the bullet might be stopped, but you could have sternum collapse, cardiac arrest, and lung collapse due to the blunt force. If you;re looking for full protection and a very conspicuous look, both before SHTF to the FBI and after, military style vests will offer more protective area and better shock absorption. Remember that vests only last through 3-5 years of use when properly maintained, so leaving your sweat in a vest will allow the chloride in your sweat to essentially rot the Kevlar, and throwing it in the closet will create thin and thick spots.

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*To the Above post*

 

I agree, I mean lets say a vest weighs 30 pounds. Just increase your limits, make yourself stronger so that 30 pounds doesn't feel like its there. Muscle is good for everything. If I had the money I would buy the $3000 vest and plates and wear them every day. Its not encumbrance if you get used to it.

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I agree. 80 pounds of combat gear got really light after about a month. You just get used to it. IMHO, armor is only worth it if you are willing to use it. If you have it because it is cool, but you never intend to use it, its a waste of time. But if you figure it into your overall plan, then it is a really good investment in my mind. Just work within your limits. I just think of it this way, I would rather say to myself, "Self, I am so glad we bought that plate carrier and level IIIA plates" as opposed to, "Self, I wish I woulda bought that plate carrier and those level IIIA plates" while I am trying to patch up a sucking chest wound.

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I would agree, body armor will turn the odds to your favor. I wore body armor in the military and hated every minute of it. We wore it every day, rain, heat, snow, every type of season. For hot weather, as long as you drink enough water you will be fine with wearing body armor. But, the key is you must PRACTICE! Don't wait until SHTF and expect to be able to hump that much weight without a significant amount of training. Also, interestingly enough, when bullets started flying over my head, I FORGOT I was wearing it. Yep- couldn’t feel a thing, didn’t think about it one second and the heat issue totally exited my military mind.

With that, I have to comment about several comments regarding the north Hollywood shootout. It has similar characteristics as the Miami massacre. That is, the cops came to a shootout unprepared to take down a well prepared villain. The cops came with their 9mm handguns, while the villain was wearing body armor and shooting a AR. So, what is the problem? Easy. .

 

Cops depend on their AUTHORITY to stop the bad guys.

 

Case in point with Miami. The cops knew who their enemy was, what he had in terms of weapons and also that the one guy was a Combat experienced former Army Ranger that had now gone bad. I.e.- that Army Ranger had all the training but had thrown away his internal stop mechanism to stop for authority. Cops depend on the authority given to them, for the BG to stop. But, if the BG does care AT ALL about the law or authority, it is useless. LAWS AND AUTHORITY ARE ONLY USEFUL AGAINST THOSE PEOPLE WHO WILL OBEY THEM.

Case in point, have you ever seen someone run a stop sign? Well, what really prevents them from running it every time? If no cops are around to enforce, the local authorities are depending on the HONOR SYSTEM that you will obey. This is why I feel there is a major difference between military and police. Us ex military expect the BG to shoot back. The police, doesn’t because 99% of the time people will honor their authority.

This is a long winded way of saying, don't depend on the bad guy to stop just because you show a 9mm/.40/.45 or BADGE at them. The authority you show may be meaningless to them. Go to the gunfight ready with your AR15A4, or M1A. Your pistol is simply a backup between magazines or to find another battle rifle.

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