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the benefit of a .22 is that it is a COMMON caliber, so when things get shitty it will be easier to find ammo.

 

And it's cheap. I use regular 22 lr in bulk and get the Stingers and yellowjackets for defense and coyote hunting. Not that I would know personally, but they work very well for deer also.

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Auto, agreed. Alot of SpecOps used them in nam, they were called "Hushpuppies". They were normally modified Ruger MK1s from all I've seen. They acquired their name not only from being silenced, but because they were used to remove guard and tracking dogs of the NVA/VC.

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The 22 is a fine round, and one of the best if a person could pick only one for survival. I don't agree with it having magical killing power though. A 30-40gr 22 slug at 1000-1400fps is just not that powerful. It will kill a person or large animal with a hit through the brain or heart yes, but anything other than a direct hit to the brain isn't likely to immediately stop the target from doing you harm. It doesn't offer the wound channel or high velocity tissue shock of larger rounds. On a broadside shot at something the size of a human they may not penetrate deep enough to reach both lungs or the heart. They are also prone to deflecting or ricocchet due to their shape and soft lead bullets even on head shots. When I was a kid I spent my allowance every week on a brick of 22lr shells, and was hoarding my last box by the end of the week. I've shot 22's for over 20 years, taking everything up to coyotes and bobcats with them. I've also used them to euthanize livestock on the ranch. To humanely euthanize a cow or other thick skulled animal with a 22 you need to shoot it point blank behind the ear. A shot through the skull usually works, but it can deflect or fail to penetrate. Before getting a 22 mag I went to only using the Remington Vipers for this as the solid flat-nose at higher velocity seemed to work better. I want an instant kill without suffering when I need to do put down livestock to butcher or due to injury. A vital lung shot won't immediately stop a raccoon let alone a larger animal or human. It will kill it, but not immediately. From my experience the 22 magnum offers considerably greater stopping power with nearly the same weight of ammo and I'd choose it if I was only going to carry one round. Animals I've shot with the 22 mag have shown much greater reation to the shot and expired faster. They also offer better controlled expansion bullets for the 22 mag to penetrate deeper for a longer wound channel. My bag has a single shot takedown 22, but also has a 223 rifle and 357 revolver. If I ever had to use a 22 for defense I'd want to take a head shot from cover, or a chance to put a few quick shots through an opponents heart and run like hell for cover while he bleeds out.

 

Like I said, the 22 is a fine round when used within it's limitations but it's no death ray. If I planned to carry only a 22 rifle I'd get a good accurate one with a scope and high cap magazines, then pack a good

9mm or bigger handgun for defense.

Edited by catfish hunter

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Catfish, I don't think any round offers "magical" killing power (except maybe the 50 BMG). I've seen plenty of deer taken with a 22 rifle. One of the "cons" of the 22, deflection, can also be a "pro". The 22 usually will only pentrate a harder target (like a skull) once and then it can't penetrate for a through and through, so it bounces around.

I use a 22lr as my primary coyote hunting tool, albeit most shots are taken inside of 75 yards. One thing I'd love to see developed is a 22 Hornet sidearm (besides the singleshots). I'd like a Ruger Mk 2 or similiar platform chambered in 22 Hornet.

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You are right about the 22 bouncing around if it penetrates the skull to begin with, and no round having magical killing power. Just wanted to post my experiences with the 22 for what they are worth. Like I said, I like the 22 but its limitations as well as it's positives need to be looked at just like any caliber. I'm admittedly a fan of mid to upper power levels for the game I pursue when hunting. I like the 243 best for coyotes, and 270 win thru 7mm magnums for deer. I like having enough gun for one shot to the lungs to put whatever I'm shooting down quickly. I feel like bullet choice has as much to do with killing power as anything, but energy and bullet diameter still matter.

 

There is no right answer or perfect gun for survival or a bug-out bag. I used to have a scoped Ruger single six for small game and a 7 mag for larger game & defense. Then I weighed 100 rounds of 7 mag and decided it was time to go smaller. I decided to go with my Ruger M77 stainless 22 mag and 357 revolver, and felt like that was a pretty good choice. I had 4 9rd clips for the 22 mag, and with a 3x9 Leupold I was accurate enough to head shoot a deer if needed to 100yds. Ammo was light and power was adequate. I later found a Rossi single shot 22lr takedown model on a christmas clearance sale that only weighs 3lbs 14oz and packs small. I went to that and a Remington 7615 in 223 and kept my little S&W model 60 357. All these together weigh the same or a shade more than most decked out auto rifles in 308 and ammo is much lighter. I checked the weights of loaded rounds on my reloading scale back in 2008 when I first started building a bag and here is what I came up with then using ammo I had on hand.

 

Ammo weight per loaded round in grains

-223 55gr bullet 170gr

-7mm 140gr 435gr

-30-06 165gr 417gr

-243 100gr 321gr

-357 125gr 217gr

-20 gauge 7 ½ 550gr

-22 mag 30gr 53.5gr

-22LR 40gr 51.5gr

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I forgot to add, the 22 hornet would be a really neat little pistol. I think Taurus makes one in a revolver but I think it's a pretty big bulky one. Maybe the 5.7x28 will really take off someday and someone will make some great carbine/pistol combos for it capable of hunting accuracy out to 200yds or so. It would be pretty close to the hornet ballistically and be nice light ammo to pack.

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I have a Henry AR-7 in my BOB, I'm not sure how much it would help for self defense, but I've nailed a few woodchucks and rabbits with it, so it does the job, I guess.

 

so many people will tell you that a 22 cant take down anything of much size.

it all depends on the shooter him/herself i think. that skin on the forehead is super thin lol.

1 well placed shot and its lights out for your target. you can do a lot of damage with a 22 on the cheap too.

some places will take several shots to do serious damage, but in the end he will bleed out.

Edited by ricksconnected

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A few months ago we had a patient come into our O.R. that had been hit broadside about 2-3" below the right armpit with a .22 The bullet went thru his lung, thru his right ventricle, deflected downward thru his diaphragm and lodged somewhere near his liver. Several hours and multiple units of blood later we managed to stabilize him enough to transfer out to a real trauma center. I've seen the effects a little .22 can do.

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A few months ago we had a patient come into our O.R. that had been hit broadside about 2-3" below the right armpit with a .22 The bullet went thru his lung, thru his right ventricle, deflected downward thru his diaphragm and lodged somewhere near his liver. Several hours and multiple units of blood later we managed to stabilize him enough to transfer out to a real trauma center. I've seen the effects a little .22 can do.

 

so its safe to say that you believe that the .22 is very effective?

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I sure admit that it can kill, just wanted to bring up the point that it won't necessarily kill instantly if you don't hit the brain. In a situation where I am protecting myself I want to be able to take away an opponents ability to do me harm immediately. I don't really care if I kill the opponent, just want to shut him/her down and get away. If an opponent has a weapon and can function for a time after being hit with a 22 they can still do harm even if they die later. 22's can sure be deadly but they need to hit the brain to be deadly immediately.

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I agree with stopping ability Catfish. When I train basic pistolcraft, I tell them if they have anything smaller than a cannon, aim for the hips. A 357 mag is "classed" as a 50 feet round; that means if they have a knife and are within 50 feet, you will be stabbed/cut/etc if you do not retreat as you fire. The distances are designed as gauges in case the crook/attacker is amped up on drugs, but we must always assume they are in a defensive event. I don't care if they can still function after snorting a pound of coke and having their heart blown out; you bust up their hips, they have to crawl to get to you and that gives the mobility advantage to you.

For straight up firing, I use a controlled pair to center mass and then will follow up with a head shot if needed and able to. Also, a controlled pair should be spread out, not able to be covered by a half dollar. Spreading them will allow more trauma as the shock waves impact inside the body and create additional shockwaves for more trauma. That is basic training CQB "marksmanship" for the Army.

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Good post, hadn't thought of taking out the hips. I'd always practiced the 2 to the chest, 1 to the head like you listed. My little S&W 357 is the pro series with the match grade barrel, and it's incredibly accurate with the hot 125gr Sierra HP loads by Black Hills. I have a compact Kahr 9mm for CC also, but it won't shoot like the 357 revolver. Good enough for what it's designed for though. I eventually want to get a Taurus Beretta clone 9mm and Kel-tec Sub-2000 to take the same mags also but haven't got that far yet. I'm thinking that would be a great set-up for my GHB.

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post-2256-1385149798671_thumb.jpg

 

Almost finished, I currently have in each BOB... from the top, left to right:

Pack = Camelback w/ 2-liter Bladder

Toilet paper, Emergency Blanket, 5pair Handwarmers, Bic lighter, Magnesium, Ziploc baggy 5boxes waterproof matches, Ziploc 4 Medic Gauze, Assorted bandaids, Beano, Ziploc w/ pills (Painkillers, Vitamins, allergy, tums, Cold/Flu, 2x2oz. bottles Hydrogen Peroxide, 2x2oz. bottle Iso. Alcohol, Toothbrush, 2 MRE Heaters, Water Preserver Drops for 55gallons, 10 LED Flashlight, Triple anti-Biotic Cream, Waterproof Match container w/ mirror, 1 Chem-light, Multi-Tool, NeedleNose Plyers/wire cutters, 8" Fixed Blade Hunting Knife, T-5 Toilet Chemical, Ziploc with Assorted batteries, Gorilla Tape, Wrist Brace, BG Machete, 6packs Quacker Oats.

 

Ziploc bags being plastic, could be used for any number of functions. My favorite and perhaps very unknown, is as a emergency medical 'cover'. If you dont have gauze/cotton something to actually bandage the wound, then cover the wound the a ziploc or any piece of plastic, and tape it to the skin. This should at least keep any infectious agent from entering the wound until you reach help.

 

Currently weighs less than 10pounds.

I also have a 2man tent, and a role of heavy-duty plastic.

2GB Flash drive with Important documents (Rolled up in a 'medium' anti-static bag)

Ziploc baggys of Mac n Cheese or Ramen noodles. I took em out of the original packaging to reduce noise while running or simply to maintain stealth (Mac n cheese shakes loudly, Ramen noodle packaging is noisy)

 

Need:

-Something small and Metal to cook/boil water in.

-Dark colored Tarp, preferably 10'x10' or a little bigger.

-Small fishing kit. Dont need a Pole. just everything else. Im was raised a country boy, I can use a sturdy tree branch for a pole.

-Medical Stitch kit (Substitute with Nylon thread or 4lb-test fishing line and needle)

-QuikClot -Calorie bars -Cordage

 

So I have multiple methods of making FIRE

Lacking in calories/food

Have at least 2-liters of water

Can clean water

Basic Medical

Capable of making basic shelter (Knife, Machete, roll plastic, Gorilla tape)

And my Survival Tip book I write in.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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I'm assuming you plan to boil water for the Mac-n-cheese/ramen noodles? Take a look at Mountain House brand freeze-dried meals. Can be prepared with hot or cold water (hot tastes best for most of them), you get more calories and flavor, they weigh almost nothing and they are vacuum packed in foil pouches which don't make noise.

 

Typical entree costs around 6-8 bucks, and requires 1-2 cups of water (depending on serving size of the package you choose). As an example, the family size "Spaghetti w/meatballs" entree uses 2 cups of water, which works out to a half liter bottle of water (500ml) the kind you buy at any grocery store or Walmart. You cut open the top edge of the pouch, pour in the water (hot if you heated it first, cold if not), then you reseal the pouch with the ziplock seam that's just below the top of the pouch. Let the water soak in for 10 mins (or a little longer if you use cold water), then open and eat. While the food is soaking up the water, you can be moving along (since the food pouch is sealed with the ziplock seam). It makes enough to fill two pasta bowls, which fed me and my wife comfortably.

 

You might consider tossing an MRE entree in there too, one that you don't mind eating cold, for those times when you don't have the water handy to reconstitute a decent meal. In our packs, we carry FD meals for 90% of our rations, and one MRE apiece for a 'no water, no time' meal.

 

You can buy MH foods at most of the big chain sports stores (Dick's Sporting Goods, Sports Authority, Gander Mountain, Cabela's, etc) as well as online places like Emergency Essentials.

 

http://www.mountainhouse.com/tools/search/dler_srch.cfm

 

My personal favorite is the Granola w/Blueberries for breakfast, tastes great with cold water.

Edited by survivalcyclist
corrected the link

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If you are looking at getting an actual lightweight stove/cooker, the Jetboil brand is fantastic. You get your container for boiling water/cooking food, along with your fuel and stove, all in one small package. It's not cheap, but it's top notch gear.

 

http://shop.jetboil.com/index.php/zip-cooking-system.html

 

An alternative for weight/cost might be an old school canteen cup (the steel ones, not aluminum) with a Esbit style folding stove. You can fit the stove and fuel inside the canteen cup, along with some extra matches (etc).

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fox-Outdoor-Esbit-Stove/dp/B000J0UKOM

 

If you are totally into making your own lightweight gear, you can build your own backpacker style ultralight stove:

 

http://www.howardjohnson.name/Backpacking/Stove/Howards_Esbit_Stove_3.0.html

Edited by survivalcyclist
added links to examples

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I'm assuming you plan to boil water for the Mac-n-cheese/ramen noodles? Take a look at Mountain House brand freeze-dried meals. Can be prepared with hot or cold water (hot tastes best for most of them), you get more calories and flavor, they weigh almost nothing and they are vacuum packed in foil pouches which don't make noise....

 

Heeding your advice I have acquired for each BOB:

1 Full MRE, 1 3600calorie pack, a stainless Steel mini-pot w/ handle as well as 100ft 550paracord, camping style spork thingy, and a little thing I thought interesting, a nylon bloodtype clip.

 

I was surprised at how much the Calorie bars weigh. I removed the Gorilla Tape to allow room. Much more in my camelback, and Ill start losing space for water in the bladder.

post-2256-13851497987089_thumb.jpg

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I forgot to add, the 22 hornet would be a really neat little pistol. I think Taurus makes one in a revolver but I think it's a pretty big bulky one. Maybe the 5.7x28 will really take off someday and someone will make some great carbine/pistol combos for it capable of hunting accuracy out to 200yds or so. It would be pretty close to the hornet ballistically and be nice light ammo to pack.

 

Catfish, if you like the 5.7x28, you need to check out the AR-57. I'm a little biased since it was a family member who designed it but if you want to pack a LOT of punch into an AR platform and still keep it somewhat compact this may be the way to go. http://www.57center.com/

 

the ammo is also used in the FN Five SeveN pistol and there are up to 20 rd mags available

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i dont know who all is still following this but i added 100% DEET to my BOB, been doing some training runs in the woods and realized ticks and mosquitos are WAY too bad in my area, and why be able to bug out and then fall ill to lymes or malaria or something like that

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They actually sell special tweezers/tools for removing ticks from your skin. They work by letting you 'unscrew' the ticks head from where it's buried in your skin - just tugging a tick off usually breaks off the head and causes a nasty infection afterwards.

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