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101matt

12 gauge ammo..what should be used? home defense? hunting?..and yes the .410 also

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"I've heard" Number 4 BUCKshot is good for home defenese, in not going through all your walls, then a neighbors wall and their kids. if your deer hunting a rifled slug is spose to be good out to 100 yards... of course you could always load your own and fill it with rock salt. it'll pierce cardboard at 4 yards but at 20 yards it'll give a good dusting. youtube video was pretty kool about it.

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If your shotgun has a rifled barrel, try the Hornady SST slugs. They are for RIFLED BARRELS ONLY. They are 300gr 3 inch slugs and pack quite an impressive punch. For home defense I'd go with eithe 00 or 000 buck. Honestly IMO a heavier bird shot will certainly make any home invader re consider his intentions too.

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it is a misnomer that any fired projectile is not deadly

as it depends on the distance of the person on the other side of the wall if a person is in a chair

back of head against the wall or even a hand and a fragmenting bullet hits opposite the energy will be

transferred and some are so devastating that arteries will shatter and the subject will bleed out quick

 

 

shotgun pellets and slugs velocity is altered by barrel length all things being equal 18 inch 12 and 410 with

the same size pellets and speed are the same you need to be a better marksman with a 410.

1 Ounce = 437.5 Grains so figure a 1/2 oz slug = 219 grains moving 1200 fps is slightly more than a 40 S&W

so how is this a good inside self defense load you need to count a slug as a bullet.

 

shot is a bit different because each pellet looses its velocity faster and when it strikes something looses

kinetic energy like 2 sheets of sheet rock but this does not mean it will not be deadly on the other

side of the wall at interior distances there in virtually no spread unless you live in a mansion.

 

never count on the fact that any projectile will not penetrate a wall or object 50 cal and 20MM & 30MM

have killed people in a concrete bunker the projectile did not penetrate but the concrete on the opposite

side of the strike broke off and killed the personnel.

this can happen with any round depending on material struck and even blanks with shot cups have harmed and killed people.

one of the best known incidents was a TV show the song "I want to be a hero from bonnie tyler" was

the theme song well the main character played a prank and using a prop blank in a regular pistol

acted like he was suicidal and shot himself {dead} the gas and fiber plug penetrated the skull enough

to send a piece of skull into his brain and he died.

 

murphy's law is always in effect he is a real MF

 

keep firearms unloaded until use {this is a crux of the matter}

always keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction

keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire

do not point a firearm at anything you do not plan on destroying PERIOD

make sure of your back stop and beyond

handle all firearms as if they are loaded

 

one way to give yourself an edge is to fire from the floor up unless you live in a 2 story /apartment

if you cannot for fact know where all the occupants of the home are as in they are behind you in

the room your firing blind if you cannot Identify your target as in your daughters boyfriend needs to pee

and went the wrong way down the hall or wife has hands full so her outline is altered

if anything can go wrong it will I remember a drunk thought his room mate was pulling his chain and

forgot his key so he pushed his fist through the door and opened it lucky there was no one home

he was embarrassed and paid for the damage, it could have been much different outcome.

 

#4 buck 27 pellets verses 9

in 50 feet I can cover a car door with a cylinder bore {no Choke}personal defense and home defense

and the next will take out the motor slug 1 1/8 and 3 more #4 buck for the Chinese fire drill.

you still need to be aware of your back stop and make sure of your target this is not a video game

life has consequences missing a target means the target/ targets now knows where you are.

keep moving keep your eyes on the targets and use cover as much as possible no matter how thin

its something.

 

think outside the box the casket rather, and remember unless you live alone your surrounded by stupid

people not meaning to but Murphy is working overtime.

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Based on my home defence situation I load my 12 gauge pump both Brenneke Tactical Home defense Slugs And Federal 00 buck with flight control wad. first shot is slug then two buck shot- repeat. I carry 3 each in a saddle. Total 12 shells. If your situation changes you can cycle to the shot you need. Just added a tactical light and HI-VIS front sight.

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thre are a lot of options for hunting and a lot of that depends on people's preferance as well. Honestly I have only ever bought one or two boxes of "personal defense" ammo. Personally I don't like the price of them and to me if what I am using can kill a deer, or birds at 50 yards then it would certainly work against another kind of threat at a much closer distance.

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I would like to see the set up also.

I have worked on a "LOAD" for my own self defence needs,I use small washers smaller than a dime.At 25ft It put a 3inch whole in a 3/4 plywood and those that "fluttered"spread out and impacted in a wonderfull way for about a foot.Yes I used high brass/max load.I think it would PUSH back anything coming through a door.

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I would like to see the set up also.

I have worked on a "LOAD" for my own self defence needs,I use small washers smaller than a dime.At 25ft It put a 3inch whole in a 3/4 plywood and those that "fluttered"spread out and impacted in a wonderfull way for about a foot.Yes I used high brass/max load.I think it would PUSH back anything coming through a door.

 

Matt, while these might do very well after TEOTWAWKI, I urge folks to only use manufacturer brand ammo for self defense. If I were a crusading DA out to get all you "man killer" gun types this ammo would figure LARGE in your murder trial. I think it is a crock but the simple fact is that using hand loads is a very bad idea from a legal point of view. OK, if you're at the range and that's what you had in the gun, that's one thing. But the home defense hand load invites a charge of a deliberate 'man killer' round. While the perp should not have been there and you might escape the criminal charges the civil suit will bankrupt you.

You've proven you've tested it and that you know it penetrates so what do you say in court? Remember, it won't be 'did you have a right to shoot' but the question will be 'did you intend to murder the poor underprivileged perp'.

 

I HATE this argument but it is the world we live in and as preppers we must see the facts clearly. There are many solid defense loads for a shotgun made by folks like Federal, Winchester and Remington. I'd find out what the LEOs use in your area and feed your home defense gun that round. I'd have the empty box with lot number so I could PROVE what I was using.

 

This close to a global upset, you do not want to be tied up in court because some idiot decided to kick in your front door.

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I agree Totaly.

I keep 00 and slugs on the butt of my shotgun and only have the HAND loads in a fanny style pack that I keep handy.I wont be useing the hand loads unless it is a TEOTWAWKI situation and than I want a"Man KILLER".I do have a new neighbor up the street thats a local leo(young man and new family)we sent them some canned peaches I did and a couple of other neighbors sent welcome things also,so I will ask him what they use.

I dont like the Idea of being in any Legal matter right now anyways and avoid anything that may get me in one.

If someone did kick in my front door they need to worry about my wife .not me.lol Cheroke/Scott/Irish..please dont piss her off.

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thre are a lot of options for hunting and a lot of that depends on people's preferance as well. Honestly I have only ever bought one or two boxes of "personal defense" ammo. Personally I don't like the price of them and to me if what I am using can kill a deer, or birds at 50 yards then it would certainly work against another kind of threat at a much closer distance.

 

Tinderwolf,

You do have a decent point. Even 'turkey shot' http://www.cabelas.com/shotgun-ammunition-hevi-shot-hevi-13-turkey-loads-10-2.shtml (usually a #4) is a very effective round out to about 30 to 40 yards. That should be plenty of power and if you live in a gun unfriendly area you have helped your case. For the crusading DA, you just used what you had for hunting, you didn't mean to actually hurt the guy.

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Buck and Ball is a pretty healthy load for a 12 in HD cases, #8 for inside under 20 feet, the 410 I cant give a good opinion on , I would choose slugs or 00 .....YMMV,,,,,,,,,for hunting, those loads are pretty self explanatory.

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Awake,

How about posting some pics of your shotgun with the light and sight? We'd love to see it.

 

I will. Currently not in same state as my shotgun. And then there is that thing about me doing something as technical as posting a picture.I still cant get an avatar to work.

Edited by awake

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For the older crowd or the smaller frame people the 2.5" double 00 with 6 buckshot instead of 9 is a lot easier on the recoil.J&G in Az and some other ammo sites carry it and I paid $5.99 for a 10 rd box.Fun to shoot if you have a bad shoulder and can't handle a lot of recoil.B)

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SLUG, 00 BUCK OR BIRD SHOT.

Its all good, A blast to the face or anywhere and 12ga or 20 ga, its gonna do some damage.

Some times just the sound of the gun being pumped could be enough.

Im just sayin.

Edited by Urban Wolf

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Duplex turkey loads on the civilian market. 4x6 shot has good penetration and saturation without being a super wall penetrating machine. I've gotten decent hits out to 60ish meters with it out of an 18" cylinder bore. Failing that I played around with some Aguila mini slugs and didn't have any feed issues but was having trouble finding them outside of gun shows at the time.

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I having a dejavu moment

 

read this as the rest is my own opinion and experience

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/12gauge.htm

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

 

and here is some great photos

 

http://brassfetcher.com/12gaugeFBITest3.html

 

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

 

after you have read that I think you need to read and get this if you need less recoil

 

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/dead-mule-recoil-reducer

 

here are the only three I recommend and I have good reason

 

slugs they have to work in your gun you must test them at 25 50 75 100 yards just like any other gun

 

#4 buck shot 27 pellets versus 9 for double 00 lead as it deforms after striking and disperses in

all directions as no pellet deforms exactly as another

 

BB shot BB's are steel usable on all waterfowl and even small birds when in the bush and in a survival

situation also an opportunity may present itself for larger game and shuffling shells is going to scare game

a magnate will help you find and remove shot from birds.

 

we are talking survival or TEOTWAWKI then having bird shot ain't for squat at 40 yards it will barely stick

in a person depending on choke.

I have been hit a few times and about that distance it smarts but it did not pass the flesh

you have no Idea what you will encounter other hunters hostile needing

or wanting your equipment and ammo for trade or to trade up.

 

during the depression people killed each other for shoes and pocket change and it still happens today

tennis shoes jackets and how ever much they got on them, so nothing has changed has it!

there are people so devoid of humanity will kill you for a look.

and you got 9 shot LMAO

 

buck and ball and specialty shells are no match for tried and true the military used #4 buck and

double 00 I have seen both I choose #4 at distance a 1 ounce slug up to 100 yards will drop a

full grown bear any make and model moose elephant may take a few rounds.

goes through a NEW car door like tissue paper.

 

I like and carry10 rounds #4 buck and 1 slug on and in the shotgun I do not like over penetration

that is why I use it up to 75 feet as long as a normal mobile home its bad medicine for bad guys

and beyond we must all realize" heavy clothing" needs special tactics shoot lower or higher

you must think or die.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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      http://www.abilitatitfa.it/smf/index.php?topic=550882.new#new
      http://mininubiangoats.com/board/showthread.php?tid=52827

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