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nickanator8

First AR

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So I am in the process of saving up for my first AR-15 style assault carbine. I have no idea what I am getting into so I'm looking for some direction. What price range should I expect and what brands should I lean towards or away from.

 

Plans for the rifle:

I plan on spending a lot of time with it and becoming proficient with it. It will not just sit in a gun case, it will get used plenty.

I plan on putting some form of optics on it, I was thinking a 3-9 power adjustable.

Enough spare mags to hold at least 100 rounds (not part of initial purchase though)

Possibly a paint job to match my surroundings.

(EDIT) I also would like to eventually put a suppressor on it (they are legal in Michigan :))

 

So, let the barrage of pennies begin ($0.02 per person)

 

ANOTHER EDIT: Just for reference, I am only asking for the weapon itself. I will be buying everything else separately and at a later date. Right now I am just trying to get the gun so I can put some rounds through it and get familiar with it while saving up for the later modifications, ie. the suppressor and the paint

Edited by nickanator8

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They cost a lot, and a suppressor is really expensive. When I see people at the gun range with them, they get 10-20 rounds out of em before theyre cussing and taking parts off to figure out was wrong with them. Thats my $.02

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I bought my M4 (5.56mm) from Smith & Wesson for $1200. I'd say with the optics and decent magazines and the bullets to put into the magazines, you should be looking at about the $1500-$1600 range.

 

In case you were interested, here's a link to the model that I bought. (Currently a bit more expensive than when I bought mine over the summer.)

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765651_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

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Having built a number of these I can say it is not only fun to do, it is rewarding knowing you can do it. I currently have an Essential arms lower with a Timmny trigger, my upper is a DSA 16inch fluted barrel with an Aimpoint on top. I put over 700 rds through it with absolutly no jams of any type be fore I cleaned it.

 

If you decide to build you can get stripped lowers for $80 to $130, you can get a kit from the Shotgun News with a complete headspaced upper,stock and lower parts for about $450 on up. But keep in mind for another $150 or so you can buy a complete Stag or DPMS, Delton,etc. This for the gun only,the rest of it,mags,scope,sling etc. are extras.

Edited by biblenguns

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nickanator8,

I'm not a fan of the AR platform but I assume you've looked at what you will be using the weapon for, carefully selected the caliber and then the platform. I have limited knowledge of the makers of the AR platform but what I will suggest is that you look at all the extras you intend to add or think that you might one day in the future intend to add. The reason for that is to make sure that you don't buy something that will prevent you configuring the weapon as you wish. For example, the carry handle, sight combination that I had on my M16A1 back it the day could interfere with a scope mount.

 

As to a scope, a 3-9 power is probably more than you need. I know that the 5.56 can shoot out to 500 yards but my personal belief is that anything more than than a 4 power (perhaps in an ACOG) is wasted capability and excess expense. Mr Smashy is more knowledgeable by orders of magnitude than I am about the AR platform. I'd listen to his opinions before my own. Still consider the mission you are buying the weapon for. A scope might get in the way where a 4 power ACOG would be the perfect answer.

 

About the only thing I would recommend is to design the final product and then work backwards until you reach the basic rifle. That makes sure you have the proper foundation to build the system you want. The other is to reconsider the size of the scope. A scoped rifle can be a detriment if the shooting is close range. My personal opinion is that under about 200 yards an ACOG is a much better investment.

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One thing I liked about my M4 is that the carry handle and iron sights can be removed so a scope or ACOG can be put there instead. Fits any situation (except for a bayonet because of the shorter barrel).

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Capt, now that you mention it, I doubt I will be shooting much farther than maybe 300-400 yards. I have done some brief research and there seems to be no solid conclusion between using a 1.5x red dot (holographic) or a 3x 4x ACOG. Anyone have a say on the matter?

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Thanks for the words of wisdom, Capt. I will definitely take your suggestions into consideration. I now have a general idea of which one I may buy. Here's the link for those interested.

 

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1__757785__ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

 

Not a bad looking rifle and a surprisingly decent price. I note the barrel twist is

1 in 8" 5R Rifling
.

I am not an expert but I remember there being some discussion about the twist rate of the 5.56 effecting accuracy based on the weight of the round. It would be worth looking at the AR posts over at http://survivalcache.com/ and you might want to read the full AR thread which starts at http://survivalcache.com/the-best-survival-rifle-carbine-ar15/ .

 

I vaguely remember discussions of 1 in 12 for some rounds. Be worth checking out before getting something you might not like.

Edited by Capt Bart

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i purchased a smith & wesson mp 15 sport model and love it shoots great, i got the flat top $649.00, added scope red/green dot 4x $39.00 and three sided rail $29.00 but can remove it in a minute and replace with iron site it came with, bought 6 extra clips $15.00 each, railed front handle $59.00 ,forearm pistol grip 29.00, good flashlight and mount 39.00. just remember that each item you add ads more weight to it. i looked at the smith,dpms, and another brand made in kentucky, but opited for the smith good set up ,good reviews and smith has a good rep!

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The work in my second career as an outdoor writer, product tester, and such, I have had the opportunity in the past 30 years to try them all, test them all, shoot them all, well, many of them. Today's AR gun market is so crowded, nobody could test them all.

 

All said and done I am a confirmed AR platform user. Other platforms such as the AK have their positives and their distractors for sure, but a modern manufactured AR from a reputable company, well maintained,

properly lubricated, either a gas system or piston system is the way to go in my mind.

 

Options for guns, accessories, support equipment like optics, gear, magazines, ammo, rail systems, buttstock configurations, and all the hang ons anyone can imagine (sometimes greatly overdone). A good, new AR can still be bought for under $1000. I suppose used ones can be found, but I avoid used like the plague. Just a personal thing for me. I'd rather save up and get what I want new in the box and go from there.

 

ARs are relatively easy to work on and there are tons of UTube videos instructing owners on every possible aspect of the rifle. There are plenty of useful reference books and booklets. Owners manuals rarely go far enough. Look into the series of books by Sweeney from Gun Digest books. I have them all and re-read them all the time. Once you get familiar with the workings of the AR everything about them will become second nature, but improvements come all the time..

 

One other aspect of the AR that beats all other configurations is that once you acquire a lower unit with a serial number on it, either by registering it via the 4473 form or from somebody walking around at a gun show, you can then buy complete upper units to easily change out for different uses from law enforcement, home or ranch defense, predator hunting, big game hunting, urban tactical, etc. Buy a couple lowers and eventually buy 2-3 uppers of different configurations. The options are endless.

 

Sight wise, I use conventional Leupold hunting scopes on some, and EoTech sights on others. I have a new Trijicon 1-4 on my Rock River LAR-308 and it is superb. I use DNZ scope mounts on almost everything. They are durable and easy to install.

 

Personally I would forget the suppressor. I work gun shows for a Class 3 dealer that sells suppressors and the paperwork and BATF/NFA permit is $200 and 6-9 months of wait. I don't care what any dealer says, the present administration drags its feet as long as possible. I have also known of two cases where paperwork was "lost" and the process started all over. I think but it is just my lone opinion that for practical uses for preppers, I see no reason for a suppressor. I have no plans to sneak around trying to pop something trying to stay under the radar. Your situation may be different. I'd put the money into ammo and accessories.

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The two most common twists for the AR are 1-7 and 1-9. The later tends to stabilize most of the ammo choices available and is universally more used than the 1-7. I shoot 45 grains up to 79 grains in the 1-9 with little issue.

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The two most common twists for the AR are 1-7 and 1-9. The later tends to stabilize most of the ammo choices available and is universally more used than the 1-7. I shoot 45 grains up to 79 grains in the 1-9 with little issue.

Thanks, John. This is an area where I am not qualified to give advice. I knew that there was a difference; didn't know what or why. I appreciate the added knowledge.

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$649 for an AR is a pretty darn good price. Here in the Peoples State of New York I have not seen one that cheap since before the Dear Leader was elected. You can still build one pretty reasonable , but a lot of people are afraid of Frankenguns.

This is a shame because I have built over 15 of them for myself and others and the possibilities are endless and the guns always seem to shoot great.

You are right about the weight aspect the more stuff you add the less fun the gun becames to carry. I would try to buy quality stuff to hang on your gun, its almost always worth it.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of AR's. I was in the military for 13 years; and just bought my first one after being out for 10 years. It was just like riding a bike all over again. Bought a plain DPMS and bought my own accessories. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I have.post-1647-13851497793463_thumb.jpg

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I have a rifle made from a Del Ton lower that is super solid and a Rock River upper ( if I recall correctly) and this Franken-rifle outshoots anything else I have in the same category. No FTF or FTE on a variety of brass rounds ranging from 55 to 62 grain, but I have not nor do I intend to try steel case or higher pressure ammo.

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My $0.02, go simple first, than get crazy later. I went crazy with my first AR, and payed more than I wanted. i eventually got rid of it (pinned double y compensator, makes it about ten times louder for the shooter, and doesn't really change the recoil in my honest opinion), and eventually replaced it. i now have a Stag model 3h, basically. I say basically because i bought a lower (Stag, it was a good price at the time, and a well respected company), then a parts kit (ambidextrous, because I like shooting both sides), buttstock, and then a model 3h upper. I would suggest going the route of getting a fixed front sight, as it is one less thing you have to worry about losing, and depending on what you want it for, either a 16" or a 20" barrel. i am going to be upping mine to a 20" barrel in the future, decided that recently, after tossing around the idea of a midlength 16". Still debating on the stock. For me, it's always a work in progress. I may never have to hit something at 500 yards, but I like the fact that I could if needed. As to painting it, i painted mine, and I love it more now than when i got it. It is officially MY Rifle. To get on point again, I was in and out for just under $700. My rifle has ambi mag release and safety, as well as an ambi sling attachment point from Magpul. i have a Tapco collapsible stock, Magpul MIAD (which i stuffed all my smaller spare parts in), and the standard handguards, with a small two rail attachment for my Surefire (not included in rifle price, everything else is). I am rocking Iron sights, though I may get a decent scope for Coyoting (probably a four power, nothing more than five, Capt Bart is spot on there), preferably with a mil reticule (for range finding, and establishing holds). If I could afford it, i would get an RCO A4, but those are $1200 (maybe when all else is done, and i have my 20" barrel). But I like em, they are a good sights. BUT HAVE IRONS!!!!! there, my $0.02.

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