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What would be destroyed in an EMP?

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So lets say a very large EMP hits the U.S. from the Sun.

 

What electronics would be destroyed? I know computers/T.V's/ and such would definitely go down, but what about much simpler things such as:

 

1. My watch

2. My cell phone (I could still use this as a camera/flashlight/etc.)

3. LED Flashlight

4. Portable generator

5. Taser

 

Would those things be destroyed?

 

I'm just trying to figure out the scope of destruction. I can't imagine not even having a battery operated flashlight.

 

I'm assuming if I have a ham radio it will definitely have to be protected.

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exit glad to see you on the forum

 

I think the question is what will common people have that will still function and interface

some hardening has been done but with out a reliable fast way to receive news

we will be counting on local emergency personnel and they have been less than trust worthy

under normal circumstances

 

I do not think anyone knows how much will be taken out batteries on their own have no ground

so no discharge or absorption so they should be OK but I keep my emergency KAITO radio in a ammo can

in the original cardboard box with rechargeable batteries just in case.

 

electronics that have a battery in them are grounded internally and always on as the day date time clock

is on and electronics depend on timing so a pulse of electrical energy might be much like a static shock

and damage it to a point it would no longer function.

 

generators that are run with electronic timing and advance would probably not work unless

covered with a Faraday cage to protect the electronic charging and engine timing system.

 

small electronics that run on DC / batteries will be very susceptible to this kind of event

some scientist believe this would be a stone age event as all but "simple" diesel motors

would be damaged or the connecting fabric would be down just imagine everything looks the same but

no noise no electrical systems blah blah so you say it cannot happen well September 11 no planes flew

for a couple of days if you would have predicted that you would be the rich person.

everyone was flabbergasted I think it had a warning attached to it why I do not know but i got a feeling

it would not be the last of fantastic and strange things to come IMHO

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what about planes flying in the air? If they get hit with an EMP would they crash?

 

So it sounds like not even a flashlight would survive an EMP. I'd love to hear others chime in.

 

I think I'm going to have to build a faraday cage for at least a few basic electronics

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the flash light would survive I think its the bulb that would burn out and the batteries may be screwed

but the batteries and bulb could be changed and wala your back in action.

 

and yes I would store some items in a ammo can it is no big deal to open a ammo can and get some

batteries or during a storm or test pull out a radio or CB or walkie's to test or go hunting with

I keep a few shake flashlights in ammo cans with like a small BOB pack in it

 

and planes have shielding to a degree but the have redundant systems and can be flown manually

but new tech and

refits I have no idea now I am not in the loop and do not care if they do or do not fly as even

we little people know of the possibilities and the pres's plane is hardened so we have the tech so it's

all about money which if you read my posts you will see my view about how our representatives and officials

treat our money..

 

and a small Faraday cage for your generator and batteries and chargers if you have a extra alternator

as they use electronic voltage regulators inverters and large car or RV deep cycle batteries even

solar panels because if they are connected buzzzzzzz they might or will be damaged by emp or solar flares

research what you have its easy to build a cage and does not

make it hard to access when you need it.

 

rots of ruck

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what about planes flying in the air? If they get hit with an EMP would they crash?

 

So it sounds like not even a flashlight would survive an EMP. I'd love to hear others chime in.

 

I think I'm going to have to build a faraday cage for at least a few basic electronics

 

The question is one of sophistication. Any of the modern airliners that are 'fly-by-wire' are most likely gone. There is some hardening but the more modern the hardware, the easier it is to mess up. The older turbine stuff will likely continue to fly but can't be restarted once they're stopped. In the TV series 'Jericho' the older jets made it, the newest stuff didn't. Just so. The longer the wire run, the less likelihood of survival. A bulb MIGHT make it depending on circumstance. A solid state anything is toast. A hand cranked model T would most like be OK if the points and condenser is OK or replaced.

 

The key to solid state devices is 'parts density'. The computers on the space station were 386SX's because the 486 and following were not radiation hard enough. This was for ionizing radiation, no EMF but the principal is the same. The denser the parts pack, the more vulnerable. A lawn mower engine has a better chance at survival than a modern, computer controlled car. Generators would probably continue to generate but only if they didn't have a solid state controller on them.

 

There might be an EMP strong enough to harm humans but not from anything on this planet or within this solar system. Anything with wire in it will be subject to high heat. Houses, barns, schools etc may well burn down as wire is turned into a toaster heating element by the EMP.

 

Does this help?

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the flash light would survive I think its the bulb that would burn out and the batteries may be screwed

but the batteries and bulb could be changed and wala your back in action.

 

I have an LED Flashlight.... so no bulb.

 

and yes I would store some items in a ammo can it is no big deal to open a ammo can and get some

batteries or during a storm or test pull out a radio or CB or walkie's to test or go hunting with

I keep a few shake flashlights in ammo cans with like a small BOB pack in it

 

 

Ammo cans would protect against EMP? I tried searching for some on amazon but they don't say anything about being made of lead or lined with lead.

 

The question is one of sophistication. Any of the modern airliners that are 'fly-by-wire' are most likely gone. There is some hardening but the more modern the hardware, the easier it is to mess up. The older turbine stuff will likely continue to fly but can't be restarted once they're stopped. In the TV series 'Jericho' the older jets made it, the newest stuff didn't. Just so. The longer the wire run, the less likelihood of survival. A bulb MIGHT make it depending on circumstance. A solid state anything is toast. A hand cranked model T would most like be OK if the points and condenser is OK or replaced.

 

The key to solid state devices is 'parts density'. The computers on the space station were 386SX's because the 486 and following were not radiation hard enough. This was for ionizing radiation, no EMF but the principal is the same. The denser the parts pack, the more vulnerable. A lawn mower engine has a better chance at survival than a modern, computer controlled car. Generators would probably continue to generate but only if they didn't have a solid state controller on them.

[/Quote]

 

That makes a lot of sense and my train of thought had lead me to believe this.

 

 

There might be an EMP strong enough to harm humans but not from anything on this planet or within this solar system. Anything with wire in it will be subject to high heat. Houses, barns, schools etc may well burn down as wire is turned into a toaster heating element by the EMP.

 

Does this help?

 

Basically, it would be TEOTWAWKI....

 

 

 

Ok gentlemen... so what equipment should I have in a Faraday cage when not in use?

 

A generator, a HAM radio, and anything else?

Edited by exit

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Solar emps happen all the time. The question is when a large enough solar event will happen.http://www.solarstorms.org/SRefStorms.html

as for the human events, its a question of when some knuckleheads get a nuke and the guts to use it.

 

Awake: Based on the Report you posted (Awesome post btw) in the other thread we can expect most vehicles to work okay (DRIVE) during/after an EMP of 50 kV/m. The only problem is, I have no idea how strong 50 kV/m is. How strong would a nuclear device or solar flare be? I tried scanning the report but couldn't find much. I'll try reading it again tomorrow but if anyone has some expertise on this, please chime in!

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This was an ease the fear study for release to the public done in 2008 if you look at the study I posted in the BOV thread that study, EMP Mitigation - Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment Publication Date: 02/2011. This report was briefed to DOD, NSC, DHS and the White House and is what the current U.S. projections are based on. The mathmatics for Faraday Cages and basic event numbers are posted in Question about Faraday Cages page 2. To put it into perspective the Carrington Event was rated at 25 DB at 3 GHz I will let the math wiz's here convert it but it would be roughly 1500 times more powerful than your papers 50 KV/m and a five megaton atmospheric burst being roughly 4 times more powerfull than the Carrington Event. Oh and LED's as great and light weight as the are will pop or explode depending on the intensity of the event watch's mechanical A O.K., Digital toast, cell phone PDA ect Toast. electronics stored in simple ammo cans toast you can prove this by taking an old cell and a net book put them in your ammo can place it at the bottom of a telephone pole with a transformer on it and overload the transformer in any number of ways I.E. Shooting or throwing a wet towel (a little obvious) or an animal living or dead to cross the poles so it blows No I am not advocating you do this unless you are a professional in a controlled environment DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME but the above occuring will cause a mild local EMP

Edited by warrior7r

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Executive Brief

Electromagnetic Pulse & Geomagnetic

Storm Events

was presented and written by NERC (North American Electric Reliability Commision)

NERC established a partnership with the U.S. Department

of Energy to review the impacts of HILF events on the

bulk power system. This effort will be closely coordinated

with Canadian governmental authorities. NERC staff is

developing a charter for a joint government / industry

steering committee of subject-matter experts to continue

efforts to assess these risks and plan a fall 2009 or

winter 2009/2010 collaborative workshop. The goal of

this workshop will be to assess the effects of specific

HILF events and consider potential preventative and

planning measures to minimize their impacts on bulk

power system reliability. Recommendations and conclusions

resulting from this workshop will be used to set direction

for future activities.

In addition, in concert with its stakeholders, NERC will

work to coordinate various planning and mitigation actions

with North American governmental authorities and other

critical infrastructure sectors. A comprehensive, crosssector

approach will be needed to ensure North America is adequately protected from these threats.

 

NERC System Disturbance Analysis: 1989 Geomagnetic

Storm. August 1990.

http://www.nerc.com/files/1989-Quebec-Disturbance.pdf

For more information, contact:

Tim Roxey

Manager of Critical Infrastructure Protection

410.474.9240

tim.roxey@nerc.net

Issued

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This was an ease the fear study for release to the public done in 2008 if you look at the study I posted in the BOV thread that study, EMP Mitigation - Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment Publication Date: 02/2011. This report was briefed to DOD, NSC, DHS and the White House and is what the current U.S. projections are based on. The mathmatics for Faraday Cages and basic event numbers are posted in Question about Faraday Cages page 2. To put it into perspective the Carrington Event was rated at 25 DB at 3 GHz I will let the math wiz's here convert it but it would be roughly 1500 times more powerful than your papers 50 KV/m and a five megaton atmospheric burst being roughly 4 times more powerfull than the Carrington Event. Oh and LED's as great and light weight as the are will pop or explode depending on the intensity of the event watch's mechanical A O.K., Digital toast, cell phone PDA ect Toast. electronics stored in simple ammo cans toast you can prove this by taking an old cell and a net book put them in your ammo can place it at the bottom of a telephone pole with a transformer on it and overload the transformer in any number of ways I.E. Shooting or throwing a wet towel (a little obvious) or an animal living or dead to cross the poles so it blows No I am not advocating you do this unless you are a professional in a controlled environment DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME but the above occuring will cause a mild local EMP

 

Call me a Skeptic but I'd like to see the formulas and figure out the numbers.

 

I can't imagine that so much time/energy/effort went into that article/research just to 'calm fears'.

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Call me a Skeptic but I'd like to see the formulas and figure out the numbers.

 

I can't imagine that so much time/energy/effort went into that article/research just to 'calm fears'.

 

You are a Skeptic! There, satisfied?:rolleyes:

 

Actually the problem with the study is what they were looking at. Starting at the top down. The 50 megaton has a stronger field than a Carrington but the Carrington event effects the entire planet, sun side and night side because it 'bounces' the earths magnetic field. Worse on the sunlit side but not trivial on the dark side.

 

A couple of purposely designed EMP weapons, detonated at the correct altitude (no I won't discuss correct altitude or bomb sizes) to maximize the EMP effect could take out the entire US and most of Canada and Mexico.

 

An area weapon will have an EMP radius of tens of miles based on the altitude and size of the burst.

 

A surface burst will have an EMP radius that is not significantly larger than the blast area.

 

A 'bunker buster' below ground burst will not have a significant EMP event associated with it. If you're close enough for the EMP to matter, the blast effects have killed you.

 

The study was looking at the normal employment of an ICBM type warhead which is an area weapon in the 10 megaton range or less. If one of these things pops over a major city, the results of this study are quite valid. If someone were to design an EMP device for the purpose of taking out the power grid, you could lose all power but if you lived far enough away from the area below the burst, your electronics could be saved and used if you could power them. EMP is a complex beastie, much of the effect goes away with distance and so can be prepared for. The problem with a Carrington event is that EVERY spot on the earth is directly beneath the event so there are no safe havens. There have been other Carrington events, one recently actually, that missed the earth (they have been observed with the solar observatories). The sun does this from time to time, fortunately most of the time the earth is somewhere else when the plasma stream passes earth's orbit.

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exit: One of the books I have in my personal library is "EMP Survival: How to Prepare Now and Survive When an Electromagnetic Pulse Destroys Our Power Grid" by Larry and Cheryl Poole (2011-02-25). I got it on Amazon. I have found it useful when I decided to make faraday cages for the electronics I wanted to store and protect. The authors also have a short list of items that you might want to consider storing in a faraday cage now. The list was a good starting point for me as I continued down that long path of preparedness.

 

Some of those items were: Emergency Radio, Police scanner, solar panels wrapped in foil, battery conditioner for solar panels, charger for rechargeable batteries, notebook computer, 115 volt inverter, Extra fuses for all electronics. It didn't ake long for me to begin personalizing the list with other items such as a thumb drive loaded with important/irreplaceable documents and a kindle loaded with prepper-related reference material.

 

Good luck and Fairwinds.

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You are a Skeptic! There, satisfied?:rolleyes:

 

Very!

A couple of purposely designed EMP weapons, detonated at the correct altitude (no I won't discuss correct altitude or bomb sizes) to maximize the EMP effect could take out the entire US and most of Canada and Mexico.

 

An area weapon will have an EMP radius of tens of miles based on the altitude and size of the burst.

 

A surface burst will have an EMP radius that is not significantly larger than the blast area.

 

A 'bunker buster' below ground burst will not have a significant EMP event associated with it. If you're close enough for the EMP to matter, the blast effects have killed you.

 

The study was looking at the normal employment of an ICBM type warhead which is an area weapon in the 10 megaton range or less. If one of these things pops over a major city, the results of this study are quite valid. If someone were to design an EMP device for the purpose of taking out the power grid, you could lose all power but if you lived far enough away from the area below the burst, your electronics could be saved and used if you could power them. EMP is a complex beastie, much of the effect goes away with distance and so can be prepared for. The problem with a Carrington event is that EVERY spot on the earth is directly beneath the event so there are no safe havens. There have been other Carrington events, one recently actually, that missed the earth (they have been observed with the solar observatories). The sun does this from time to time, fortunately most of the time the earth is somewhere else when the plasma stream passes earth's orbit.

 

But how strong is a Carrington event? I'm more worried about a Carrington event than a nuclear device exploading over the U.S... I just don't think the later is as likely to occur. Even if it is, I think it can be prevented where the former can not.

 

exit: One of the books I have in my personal library is "EMP Survival: How to Prepare Now and Survive When an Electromagnetic Pulse Destroys Our Power Grid" by Larry and Cheryl Poole (2011-02-25). I got it on Amazon. I have found it useful when I decided to make faraday cages for the electronics I wanted to store and protect. The authors also have a short list of items that you might want to consider storing in a faraday cage now. The list was a good starting point for me as I continued down that long path of preparedness.

 

Some of those items were: Emergency Radio, Police scanner, solar panels wrapped in foil, battery conditioner for solar panels, charger for rechargeable batteries, notebook computer, 115 volt inverter, Extra fuses for all electronics. It didn't ake long for me to begin personalizing the list with other items such as a thumb drive loaded with important/irreplaceable documents and a kindle loaded with prepper-related reference material.

 

Good luck and Fairwinds.

 

Thanks Rob! I'll check that out as soon as I finish with my Bug Out book. Probably a week or two.

 

Can you recommend any How To's for building a Faraday cage? I haven't searched in-depth yet but if anyone has any extremely useful links you'd save me some time.

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