sky watcher

Money

13 posts in this topic

Hi everyone!  This is my first post, but I have been receiving your SHTF blog by email for quite some time.

Every time I turn on the TV, I see commercials for gold and silver.  Am I correct to assume that gold and silver would only be needed in a very long term incident that finally started rectifying itself?  But, what about cash/money?  How much money do you think each person would need if any?  Thanks a lot!

juzcallmesnake likes this

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This is a tricky subject the government has in the past made it illegal to own gold and confiscated and requested all gold be turned in. When you buy gold or silver you are asked to produce ID so it is not like "they" do not know you have precious metals cash may be good for a while I think you can look at recent events in Venezuela Crete Greece and see how the banks take a holiday and that is when you need cash BUT when the bank opens your money has been devalued so even if you have cash it will be a fraction of it's value In Greece first the government devalued cash by half and soon after 25% more so in a short span the cash was worth 25% of it's original.

If you decide to hold cash best to spend it fast on house payments or some place to live if it is possible to pay it off weather it be a RV cabin or your home as once your cash is devalued it will take much more to pay the debt as well the cost of everything else will increase exponentially food utilities insurance etc..

People always freak out when you talk about the depression because they always tell you we have checks and balances but the tech crash and the home equity crash Here is a link to crashes of the last 40 years   financial crashes of the last 40 years

A quick perusal will show all that was ever done was kick the can down the road counting on a resurgence of capitalism problem is the debt has NEVER been paid the big lie was Bill Clinton paid down the debt all his did was play hide the weenie with the debt. as of now there is a video on youtube where the head of the Fed cannot account for 2 trillion dollars probably more.

I also have to include that should the powers that be decide cash is a problem the can go digital and pay a percentage of what you had coming by automatic debit payments that is why for years we have all been asking us to go check / cashless and go to debit cards it is easier to control the masses when they have no choice.

America is not like any other country the day checks get slashed this nation will go bat sh*t inner cities will be crazy town Gold and silver are nice but why has Germany been selling off their gold for the last 10 years ? investing in gold or silver stocks has been stated as over sold so when you ask for your metals in real ingots or bullion they do not have enough to cover all the stocks sold ( I do not know the positively ) but the averages of previous over selling of mortgages and bonds leads me to accept this as a possibility.

Since you cannot eat drink or defend yourself with precious metals or gems a very diversified portfolio of everything as It is my opinion that no one knows what will be considered valuable.

I recall a member of Survival Cache that survived the Bosnian Herzegovina   war (not positive ) but anywho he had a good post of what people considered valuable in very distressing times like canned food OTC medications lighters ammo toilet paper batteries all kinds alternators wire as they were making paddle wheel generators and charging vehicle batteries for lighting and floating them in the river and worse dodging snipers to retrieve them.

When money is in flux roiling blackouts like in Venezuela food shortages and no emergency services Columbia and other countries are in dire financial straits As I recall the crash of 2008 was caused by Iceland Really for some reason the default of home loans where fully supporting the retirement of teachers etc of Iceland and once that hit the fan our dow took a 50% dump it only sprung back because we are the only game in town as we are the Petro dollar but as we speak the Iranians Russia and China want to dump the Petro dollar and squeeze us out what does that mean how the hell does anyone know, no one has ever seen this kind of problem they are all guessing.

Last but not least we have numerous nuke powers that dislike us and would be willing to provide a weapon to a rd party without a country like Hamas ISSIS Alqueda and a dozen others Bokoharam and then there are a number of other countries who's socialist "freedom fighters" blame our deep state for dropping them in the grease like Nicaragua Guatemala etc etc and all the old bad boys are still with us willing to join with anyone that could provide some payback for being back stabbed by our invisible state --- did anyone forget Iran -Contra or the golden triangle we have screwed a lot of very very unfriendly people  we are now in direct conflict with MS13 Zetas and other former military gone rouge and now have no qualms about moving people and "BAD things just like what happened in France Spain India and Germany all of these required preplanned importation of required hardware or local theft and sale by criminal organizations.

Needless to say we got problems and no one knows where the fickle finger of fate will come from even international bankers are threatening to downgrade our rating and add the fed increasing the interest rate by just a 1/4 % point will make most people with variable rate loans default hence another mortgage crash and what are we suppose to use as collateral to bail them out ?

There are a doze other issues I am not willing to wade into. We live in interesting times unfortunately they are all bad.. and how they will effect the economy is anyones guess recent evidence figures a 9.2 quake off the west coast  is eminent and it is projected to take out everything to I5 swarm quakes under the Yellowstone caldera quakes in Oklahoma Texas and in the Madrid / Missouri area as shown some activity then there are droughts fires and political pressure in western states that may cause a exodus of many from California Oregon and Washington shifting the voter block of those states they choose to nest in.

Total prepping plan real diversity not just counting on investments in oil metals or we could just go through a Japanese slump that has lasted 20 years gradual increasing prices low to reverse interest rates and ever lower bonds and stocks forcing people to live off of savings sounds like here HUH.

wally and MommyLiberty5013 like this

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can't add much more than snake said but a little silver would be okay to have

cash will lose value quickly so i wouldn't have bundles of cash laying around either...

stock up on prepper items is the way to go...

and certainly don't get paper gold/silver stocks they will never give you the gold  once the SHTF...

 

juzcallmesnake likes this

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I would get some physical silver, how much should one get.

Depends how deep are your pockets.

Average in a SHTF  20 ounces per person, should be fine.

Cash per person short term, couple hundred in small bills, 1,5 & 10's .

What I think would be most valuable is water filteration system, food, seeds    Medications & something you can use for self defence.

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Hi. Just another thing to consider is what type of precious metal to hold. Bullion can't be broken down/divided or carried easily. So coins are better. 

DH and I cashed in a whole life insurance policy I had that a grandpa started for me as a baby. We went online to APMEX and bought "junk" silver. Basically we have old quarters from days passed (before worthless money), that are all silver. They were once all in circulation. Some are dirtier than others. Some date back to the turn of the century. You can get nickels or dimes too. The face value of the coins now has no bearing. It's the weight. So you buy by weight. That's the extent of our physical precious metals. I do hold "paper" gold (ETFs) in a retirement portfolio. I'm leaving that alone due to taxation right now to withdraw. Meh. Not the best. 

As for cash, we have about $2k in smaller bills. Cash is good in the short term for when card readers are off (no debit or credit). 

The rest of our value is in "stuff" and supplies.

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On 2017-08-07 at 11:07 AM, MommyLiberty5013 said:

Hi. Just another thing to consider is what type of precious metal to hold. Bullion can't be broken down/divided or carried easily. So coins are better. 

One can get gold & silver in 1, 5 & 10 gram coins / bars.

Ive seen them in person they are made by the following company's ( 2nd Amendment bars, Buffalo bars, Ace of Hearts bars, Ace of Spades bars, American flag bars, British flag bars, Maple leaf bars & ValcambiBars which I find quite common in Canada.)

If your local coin/bullion dealer doesn't have them, their are plenty of sellers on EBay.

On the other hand, me personally if I'm buying bullion, it would be a face to face dealing only & no other way.

This way I could do a chemical & magnet test on the coins or bars that I plan on buying.

These are my rules when buying bullion, buyer beware at all times.

There are fake bullion for suckers that loose their hard earned money.

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A alternative group of metals are electrical copper wire batteries like golf cart batteries switches plugs as they work with any voltage AC or DC barbed wire rolled fencing T-posts fence staples nails tools like hammers axes handsaws chain falls rope / block & tackle etc. some solar panels or a kit as personal comfort like a fan or light is very bolstering in hard times -- flipping your pillow to the cool side all night sucks consider 12 volt and or hand operated kitchen and work tools.  Chains pad locks are to secure your property and tools until you can defend them with force, as if the time comes it will be dog eat dog nothing sacred life will be cheap trust will be hard to find as chickens teeth.

Gasoline electricity etc may be hard to come by or very expensive. if you have water food and a few creature comforts people will imagine you have much more many people have been targeted for rumors read the book "In cold blood" the whole family was murdered for a fictional safe and money they did not have. In south America every member of a family is a potential hostage so wealthy people have security for the children wife girl friends and themselves it does help but many are killed for political reasons or their jobs because that job has clout or places the holder in line for bribes or personal aggrandizement.

people you may have known all your life you will not be able to trust first are those with power .....

 

TPSnodgrass and wally like this

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We use PMs, ONLY as a means of "wealth protection", for the "after-collapse". We also are great fans of junk bags of silver coins, (dimes and quarters with 90% silver content.), we also have "some" of the fractional bars wherein one can break off 1gram increments of gold for "trade". We feel our situation is a bit different than most folks, as we also have some "emergency cash" on hand 20's and lower denomination bills, for any kind of interim emergency needs.

Also, we keep stocking up on our supply of brass and lead, can't EVER have "too much", unless you are on fire or trying to swim...

P210SIG, wally and juzcallmesnake like this

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Thank you all for your "uplifting" posts! :D

So many things to ponder!  I am really surprised that you all say the cash dollar will devalue fast.  So, I guess most of you would agree to spend money on food, supplies etc. instead of a stash of money.

Any of you have a favorite survival book for a relative newbie?

I guess my main area of concern is alternate power and medication, so, I guess I'll catch you all on those boards!  Thank you for your ideas!!!

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3 hours ago, sky watcher said:

Any of you have a favorite survival book for a relative newbie?

I guess my main area of concern is alternate power and medication, so, I guess I'll catch you all on those boards!  Thank you for your ideas!!!

Books are useless if you do not have the basics like pure salt cable rope winches block & tackle seeds and some practice in gardening raising animals and a range of medicines for your self and critters. There is so much misinformation on the interweb it is crazy town look up making colloidal silver even the people that make it and sell it are not always correct on making it.

If I could have only a few books one that has good pictures of plants for medical use and human consumption as plants have mimics that look close to but are either of no value or even toxic. Many garden plants have parts that are toxic or deadly, ripe potatoes good the plant stalk & leaves NO

U.S. Navy dive manual many cross referenced, tables on strength of cable rope wire general uses and working principles.

Alternative power that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room EMP will make any source defunct except very basic wind power like an old fashioned wind mill before electrical power single piston thumpers using steam or coal oil natural gas ran whole buildings

Water wheels are not easy to build and specific woods need to be used or it will rot faster than you can get it into use.

A Bible because all the knowledge will not help if you do not have insight and protection from God. and a Bible is not magic if you have no faith it may as well be a car repair manual, it is a compendium of knowledge for the spiritual side of man

Mother earth news and backwoods home has plenty of good topics in every magazine, and past issues.

any of the books on preserving food without electricity. BUT there again you have to have on hand vinegar salt alcohol wood screen glass or plexiglass to build food dryers and tool and nails etc etc.

Farmers or ranchers have more chance of surviving because most have stores of medicines chemicals fertilizer knowledge. all of the machines today are integrated with electronics and if that fails you have a piece of scrap engines are only as good as their weakest parts today that is the carburetor most gas has ethanol and that works against long term storage and the carburetor today downdraft carbs are all but gone this crap today will not last is too complicated or the design requires rubber silicone or special gaskets that ethanol destroys.

America cannot be destroyed unless --- we would be forced backward to the 1800's and that is possible and in that event nothing 99% of Americans know will be of any value as we are technologically trapped it is hard to find tools and equipment to survive in an agrarian society and even if you do does anyone really think if we were "powerless" that another nation would not take advantage at that point ?

Consider this you have more than one vehicle and none will run you have freezers fridges and they don't work no AC or heat if you could get to a store there would be nothing there and NO resupply trains planes buses don't run no phones starts to sound like a rerun of Gilligan's Island but it is very possible .... 

 

 

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I would find books helpful. In SHTF, there will be no internet. I will just admit, I cannot learn everything and unfortunately I know little of many necessary SHTF endeavors other here are experts in.

I have reference materials on: hunting/trapping, preparing fish and mammals for consumption, foraging, first-aid, gardening, seed propagation, solar/wind powers, and others. I am familiar enough with them to get started but I have them on-hand when I run into an obstacle and need help and there is no such thing as GOOGLE or YouTube.

In 2012, when my husband and I began prepping, (yes, we were late to the party), I decided there are basically a few categories.

TIME: 3 days, 3 weeks, 3 months, and perpetuity.

PREPS: Shelter/warmth, water, food, first-aid, weapons, and misc..

What did we need in each PREP category to meet the needs of our family for the various TIME allotments. It was an uphill march for about six months with some MASSIVE credit card bills to get the 3 days, 3 weeks, and 3 months preps taken care of. Now, we are well into working on perpetuity preps. NO, we aren't in debt with credit cards - you do what you can without debt - we just had the means, but the savings account took a hit back in 2012 after we paid off the CCs before any interest accrued.

Paper money and coins are worthless. They only have "worth" because we and the Federal Government say they have worth. "Good for all debts public and private." Gold and silver have ALWAYS had value ever since the beginning of humankind and will remain valuable. Currency can always be printed and then worth nothing (think of the Confederate money and Nazi money - it's now worth nothing, except maybe a historical value, which means squat in SHTF).

In the short-term after a disaster when CC and DC readers are down, cash IS king. So having some on hand makes absolute sense. But if you are looking at a long-term situation, cash is worthless - people will want materials like food, clean water (or means to get it), soap, matches, bullets, etc..

 

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Hi Snake, agree with everything you said about God.  Now in regards to your post.... is solar energy out in an EMP or attack on our electrical grid?  I really know nothing about them. I have read about people having several car batteries stored as back up for electric necessaries.

Should I move this question to an "electricity' message board?

Also, back to money, it seems to me that keeping any in the bank except to pay monthly bills is dangerous.  Dummies keep giving me the "our money is covered by the FDIC."  Some folks just don't realize what would happen if the SHTF!!

Thank you MommyLiberty for your helpful advice.  I have the land. I wonder about people stealing the crops.

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sky Watcher BIG QUESTION if a solar system is in use then I figure because they use diodes and electronics in the inverters charge controllers yes they would be vulnerable in the area of the pulse if they are not connected to the grid and not in the effected area I see no reason why they would not continue to operate as far as I can find.

now if you have a system not connected and the electronic parts in a --lets say a insulated can or weatherproof / waterproof container I see no reason why it could not be assembled and function. the batteries will likely work as long as they did not go below 10 volts or short out and if not connected I see no reason for them to be effected but there again we do not have data on this our government hides everything worth while away from us.

EMP is like wind in a dry climate it creates static / erratic voltages people have been killed touching a barbed wire fence under dry high static high winds the charge is in the air the wire is a conductor and all it needs is moisture (human or animal body ) and a ground then all that potential energy goes to earth.  This is why many people use line filters voltage regulators to maintain 120 volts @ 60 HZ for most common household electronics or else the wiles of the utility will bite your gear and that is only part of our problem if your computer is attached to a land line like DSL nd or coax cable service ether satellite or local service you have as many ways for voltage from storm lighting EMP etc to hit your computer the powersupply in most computers have a fuse (generally) and the modem and ethernet boards will pop a resistor before it can take out your computer but it is a toss of a coin if you loose your hard drive or motherboard.  lights well the bulb bites it.

Most everything today has integrated electronic components and those are sensitive to EMP the wire is so minimally engineered it will go up in a puff of smoke car wiring is pathetic as compared to  1960 vintage vehicle.

Everything electronic is basically low voltage DC that has been converted from house current  look at your phone charger 120 volt AC to 5+ volts DC @ 500 MA to 1.5 or even 3.0 ITS CRAZY TOWN NOTHING IS compatible it is all smart technology and may as well be voodoo to the average person. then there are the connectors mini USB micro USB blah blah --- If anything happens most people will get killed or destroy their gear or not have the proper connectors, knowledge or independent system like a solar panels or wind turbines or the ability to convert existing components to operate /charge their electronics to access the information on it.  This is why I tell people to have a survival notebook a hard copy compendium of knowledge not effected by electronic destruction.

I have a Kaito Radio in a safe container as well as a older smart phone if I need to I can use the hand crank to charge it and have mini SD cards with information and movies music etc. as well good rechargeable batteries as in a Radio like the Kaito it uses a rechargeable battery/s to store and transfer.

most people do not "get it" that their phone tablet notebook printer etc do not work off AC (alternating current)  house current it is all stepped down to DC ( direct current ) I have even heard it called DRY CELL not appropriate but I'll leave that.

One other issue if we have a down grid or worse even if most people have or can make a way to charge or power electronics or equipment the batteries if overcharge will self destruct if not recharged with a "smart charger) as it reads the voltage and once it knows the battery is fully charged it stops charging a jury rigged system will not overcharge and damage the battery or even make it blow up same if the improper voltage is applied then there are "dead batteries" that are not dead but in a stasis of improper charge state sometimes these can be resurrected if the proper voltage is applied correctly after they have been completely discharged with "wet cell" acid batteries sometimes he electrolyte can be drained rinsed and refilled this is not simple but people can find any or all this information on the interweb.

In conclusion it is not basic information but specific information and application and the resources to do it.

all that aside being able to crank up my phone and watch a John Wayne movie is not a priority and ear buds (pair)someone can walk right up and crack your NUT. hearing especially at night is paramount to anything else remember OPSEC in todays world any power use creates a signature I dare say any powered device could be sensed as they all make a noise even though you cannot hear it.

In all the "survival books" most of the things I mention are NOT considered or know by the simple minded me Tarzan types I would go as far as to say they are more like Cheetah IMHO.

Am I elevating myself Hell NO anyone can be laid low a simple Mesquite sticker tip snapped off in your foot and in days your a gangrene infected babbling idiot or eat the wrong mushroom bad water sunburn and blisters get infected or a common cold tuning to pneumonia we are all a statistic and the grim reaper has a 100% win record no runs, no errors once and a while he jumps you like a kitten mauls you and playfully runs away just to let you know he is always watching ready to be all over you in an unguarded second  HHAHHAAAAAAA. funny isn't it \.

 

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