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Drew_Forge

Pistol Caliber Carbines

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Do any of you run pistol caliber carbines to supplement your handguns? I was just loaned this 1911 carbine conversion kit to try out. I'm in the middle of performing pistol vs. rifle chronograph testing for seven different calibers: .22LR, .22 Magnum, .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, 9mm, .45ACP. Lots of fun, lots of data, lots of numbers to crunch. Keep an eye out for an article on Survival Cache early this spring. MIght make you rethink the efficacy of the pistol caliber carbine, just sayin'....

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Cool.

I seen one of these pistol carbine uppers at a gun store, called Ellwood Epps.

You just attach the frame of your 1911 pistol to this carbine upper & your good to go.

The one I saw was in 45 ACP.

It just got sold when I arrived at the store, that day.

This was about 5 years ago I had seen it.

The item was sold as used, I don't see them being sold new in the gun stores in Canada as far as I know.

Non the less, it's a very nice piece of kit to have.

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The only common caliber is 22 it is not reloadable but it is potent enough for general survival and defense in a bug out scenario and having one in a carbine and pistol is inexpensive and reasonable amount of ammo with a full weight with a full pack.  An empty rifle is a stick it has no more reach than a stick is heavier so IMHO I would rather have lots of ammo than a stick.

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Yeah, this is a pretty cool rig, you just pop the slide, barrel, and recoil spring assembly off the 1911 frame, then slide this carbine kit on in place. The whole works is held in place by the slide stop. I'm gonna throw a red dot or small scope on it for testing purposes and let 'er rip.

 

The frame is an early Para-Ordnance P14. Holds a lot of big fat slow moving ammunition. :)

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The frame is an early Para-Ordnance P14. Holds a lot of big fat slow moving ammunition. :)

A little history on Para Ordnance firearms.

Did you know that the earlier Para Ordnance hand guns were actually manufactured in Ontario Canada.& not in America.

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i've shot everything i can think of except for AR15's AK47's and pistol caliber carbines. how much more range do you get in the carbine format?

it will be interesting to see what you build/get in the carbine format...

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Pistol caliber effectiveness is 1,000 feet per second it is still lethal at 550 to 600 FPS oe main problem is the bullet drop of a flying brick, so your sights are important as well as knowing the bullet drop by heart then you still have to adjust for it @ 25 50 and 100 125 & 150 yards.

The stadia bars or BDC  sights help a lot but you still need to be able to range

 

the web site bullets by the inch helps    http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/

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A little history on Para Ordnance firearms.

Did you know that the earlier Para Ordnance hand guns were actually manufactured in Ontario Canada.& not in America.

P210Sig, I don;t have it here in front of me right now, but I do believe this is a Canadian frame. It's got to be closing in on 20 years old.

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I just want to remind people that a 16 inch barrel alone mounted on a pistol  is a FELONY or considered a short barrel rifle and technically a shoulder stock on the pistol is a felony as a short barrel rifle,  so AGAIN technically you would have to remove the slide attach the butt stock and install the upper OR you wold have a FELONY act committed by YOU it's all crazy because a felon does not care and does not follow the rules but those that try or ignorant get into real trouble.

 

The owner or person in possession / user has to know the laws and abide or be prosecuted by them. a rifle barrel should be no less than 16" and a shotgun barrel should be no less than 18". While the overall gun length for either a rifle or a shotgun has to be 26" and then there is Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm)

 

A pistol becomes a rifle when its barrel is 16 inches or better and if it is not 26 inches long overall your screwed !!!

 

Another little known fact IF a semi-suto malfunctions and fires more than one shot without the full pull of the trigger it is now a machine gun and if there are witnesses who turn you in your SCREWED  and especially if you modified it to do so Now there are trigger adapters that fire multiple rounds as long as you have to operate it continually it is not classified as a machine gun.

 

suppressors or Silencers etc. and now they are some that are cleaner catchers or whatever as long as it decreases the noise it is illegal now stating that subsonic ammo is not nor is walking around wearing a thong under your clothes apparently  but I am just as sure under certain circumstances you do not want to be caught with either BECAUSE if there is an ordinance that make it illegal to use a firearm it makes no difference if it is a blank subsonic or full power shell it is ILLEGAL some places have laws that restrict BB & pellet guns.

 

Regardless if a thing you have in your hand is used as a weapon or a misuse or accident causes injury or death YOUR RESPONSIBLE !

this includes weed eaters lawn mowers tractors vehicles golf clubs etc etc etc........this may be a free country (thats debatable ) but your not free to do certain stupid sh*t even if it is two consenting adults fighting is still not allowed and I do not know where but now fighting is also interchanged with what we used to call arguing and now each is fighting and there is some question as to mutual combat ? it is legalism aimed at creating governmental control taking it away from the police and the citizen. or you have the right to hire a lawyer but nothing else and if you do not have 5 grand it is justice denied you may end up with a public defender if the law decided someone has got to pay !

 

It's all fun and games until someone looses an eye or contracts a venereal disease.

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I like pistol caliber carbines but all of mine are lever action.  357, 44, 45 Colt & 454.  There is a significant increase in velocity between the rifles an pistols.  I've thought the carbines that used the semi lower to be interesting but just about as expensive as a complete rifle.  Just never could get past "Hmm, interesting" though.

 

BF

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I somewhere forgot about this topic but I love 1894 C in 357 and the old Ruger Vaquero I think the new ones are a shadow of the old model.  The stronger Ruger old model can handle the stout rifle loaded rounds many others will not.  I see these as useful in a home / property defense but face it any decent bottle neck center fire cartridge has more power and range.

I love the carbine pistol caliber combination I accept that all of the ones I can think up have less than 200 yard and some 100 yard limits  in many areas that is not a problem as there are enough woods that a hundred yard shot is about the limit anyways.   Past 100 yards bullet drop is a factor that can be overcome but it really exercises the old bean when having to calculate on the fly at longer ranges as long as a person can hit an index card at that range constantly it's a good shooter.

There are no magic calibers but there is knowledge and using it to keep yourself within range of your objective.  or knowing your out of range. The proper aiming point most game can be taken the only exclusions are the large dangerous game of course there are always exceptions many moons ago a NYPD officer killed a polar bear who attacked a woman who somehow ended up in the enclosure he did this by putting his 38 special service revolver in the bears ear and pulling the trigger.  I personally know a man that hunted puma with a 38 S&W and dogs.

The real limit is good quality ammo and no matter what brand make sure it functions and is accurate in all of the weapons you have for that caliber. having other brands is self defeating as different ammo will shoot differently so you accuracy will suffer especially with different bullet weights so once you find an accurate brand bullet weight and type stick with it and when you can buy all one case lot as generally speaking t will have the least shot to shot difference in velocity the more consistent the more accurate.  and brand does not seem to be a factor even name brand companies can produce a poor consistency ammo  in some calibers and yet excel with other calibers they make.

 

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