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JohnDoe1999

Tactically Unsound?

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I left a comment on the blog a minute ago, I'd like some input:

 

"Personally, I dislike tents for the same reason I dislike sleeping bags: Because I can't fight easily from it. I'm not a fan of using tents and sleeping bags in regular camping let alone a collapse. If my buddy on watch yells "CONTACT" or wakes me quietly, I'd rather throw the blanket off me and roll out from under a tarp ready to return fire if need be. Just my 2 cents. P.S. I'm arachnophobic, and I still reject tents and sleeping bags."

 

As I stated, much to my friend's dismay, I REQUIRE a fire watch, or sentry even if there is no fire. Is this a bit much in anybody's opinion?

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Ditto. In everything we did when I was in the Marines, security was number one with a bullet, number two being safety, "Marine, put that weapon on safe," or "wear your PPE (Personal Protection Equipment)". You can never be too safe, and IMHO, you can never be too anal about security when you are out away from home ( I worry about security everywhere, even now, and most especially now, as I do not have a Marine standing watch over me at all times). just my two cents.

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On security it to each his own....I agree with the fire watch and the sentry......i don't much care for a sleeping bag myself and i figure if we have to bug out (we being my wife, grandson and myself) my plan is to rest and sleep durning the day and travel at night...I know some people would not agree with that...but I know for a fact what can't be seem can't be messed with......it may take longer to go from point a to point b traveling at night...but i think your chances of survival would increase......just my way of thinking

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I really like my tent and bag..but if the SHTF then i would more than likely use them only when reasonably sure it was safe...and have a watch posted--the moving at night is a good option-

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John,

As i learned in OCS when I didn't KNOW the answer, the answer was always "That depends on the tactical situation, Sir!"

 

There are places where the weather dictates tents and bags. The better your guard force, the easier it is to justify the tents, but given sufficiently inclement weather, either cold or wet or both, the tent, or an equivalent shelter, may be required.

 

Bags on the trail, not so much. When I was in SE Asia I medivaced a GI who was grabbed by a Tiger(!) in his bag. Cat grabbed his shoulder and was dragging him off for supper. He couldn't bring his weapon, inside the bag, into play. Fortunately his screams attracted the attention of the guard force and they drove off the Tiger.

 

As we flew him out, all he kept mumbling was about how bad the cat's breath was and he was going to eat ME! The guy was a justifiable basket case. I might need a bag, north Germany in winter with no tent is COLD and I don't like that much cold, but it is not my first choice. Same with a tent. Have one (a tent set up in your house gives you a much smaller room to heat) in case of need but in general I prefer a bed roll and a shelter half if needed for rain.

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I didn't learn it in OCS like Capt, but my standard answer in grad school was 'it all depends'. Depending on the situation no bag or tent might be perfect, but in others you might best be served using both. Personally, I'm taking a bag and tent (if I can) and will determine when and where to use it at the time. In my experience, blankets and the like don't keep you as warm as a bag and weigh a lot more. Plus, you can always keep your bag unzipped for a quick exit. Of course, 'it all depends' on what you like and want to do.

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I prefer to be as low profile as possible or "invisible" even in an urban environment. I LIKE my "comfort" when in the boonies, but I don't have a problem with sleeping bags or tents because for the most part, I truly do not believe it's going to be as hostile as we "think" it can be. If it's that hostile, we need to pick our solid defensive positions and hunker down for the fight. Plan for the worst ad hope/pray for the best, reality will be in between those two parameters. Just my opinion and personal and professional experience is all.

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no sleeping bag for me. was more the fact that if sleeping outside and in a new / hostile / shtf situation - i will probably sleep in my clothes,pants, and shoes. Do not want to get in a sleeping bag with shoes on so just plan on a blanket.

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Aw see sleeping bag is a must and tent is recommended for me. If I had to bug out it has been dropping blow freezing at night here and my bug out plan involves heading off into the mountains where is 20 degrees colder at night. I can build a damn good igloo but that only works if it stays close to freezing during the day. As much as I would like to sleep under the stars that's only an option 4-5 months out of the year. not dieing of exposure for the win.

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I prefer to be as low profile as possible or "invisible" even in an urban environment. I LIKE my "comfort" when in the boonies, but I don't have a problem with sleeping bags or tents because for the most part, I truly do not believe it's going to be as hostile as we "think" it can be. If it's that hostile, we need to pick our solid defensive positions and hunker down for the fight. Plan for the worst ad hope/pray for the best, reality will be in between those two parameters. Just my opinion and personal and professional experience is all.

 

Agreed. We forget at times that we are preparing to survive, not to engage in combat operations. Yes combat may be involved if we are very unlucky or a little careless but making symmetrical combat a major part of our preps is a waste of time, money and effort. Not to mention the fact if a member of my group gets killed in a fire fight, I've lost the engagement regardless of who walks away from the fight.

 

The Plains Indians lost the Battle of the Little Big Horn. Yes Custer was killed and half of his command with him but given the two populations, the Indians had to kill 15 troopers for every warrior they lost. They didn't get that ratio so they left the field weaker than the Calvary, even though they won the tactical fight. Losing a family or team member means I've lost.

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I hope you don't spend 20% of TSHTF time in combat. That's 4 hours and 48 minutes of fighting a day. You won't last long if your getting into hour long battles a few times a day.

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I hope you don't spend 20% of TSHTF time in combat. That's 4 hours and 48 minutes of fighting a day. You won't last long if your getting into hour long battles a few times a day.

Auto,

we read it differently - 80 - 20 is the cash/time spent for the event, not the time spent in the event. A full up combat rifle tricked out and ammo-ed up, can easily cost 2 to 3 grand. That makes the 80/20 ratio is something like 8000 on survival prep and 2000 on combat (if my math is any good this afternoon).

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One thing to considder when working with the 80/20 or 90/10 ratios - they are based on a probability that will likely not occur in that exact ratio. They are not an absolute - just a standard variable that one can use as a guidline.

Edited by LivingGray

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Tinderwolf,

Trouble with probability is that if the event happens to you, the probability is 1 (100%). If it doesn't happen then it is 0. What we are using the numbers for is to help in the decision making. It is very unlikely that I will have no need of a firearm if TSHTF. It is also very unlikely (in my opinion) that I'll be faced with 100 MZB rolling into my neighborhood. So where in that range should I spend time, money and talent on combat preps and against what enemy.

 

That is the personal call that we all make with all of our preps. Food, water, medicines, heat, gear of all kinds are all dependent on what we think the most likely TSHTF event will be. Five guys dressed like cops kicking in your front door (last night, north Houston - scary) calls for a different response from a hurricane.

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We left southern California because of the "crush of humanity", and being a Northern Cali native myself, I never felt "comfortable" in a large metro area. Too many variables and too many things could go "wrong" too fast. That being said, I well remember the April '92 "Rodney King Uprising"(thank you Maxine Waters-D, Los Angeles for that moniker) and our then high school senior son racing the two blocks home from our high school fearful that contagion would spread southward towards us.

True, we were then living in the suburbs, about 50 miles SOUTH of the contagion of civil unrest. True, I had dozens of phone calls from attorneys in Los Angeles (ACLU members no less) demanding I bring THEM a gun so they could, a.) go home, b.) protect their families, etc. Unfortuantely, I had to share with them that such an action o my part would constitute a felony in the State of California, and I had ZERO intention of lending any firearm under any circumstances. The next question was-"Where can I buy one-NOW?" Of course, they "forgot" they had to wait 10 days for a "cooling off" period thanks to their organization and many others like it. However, most "forgot" that lesson in preparedness they should have learned. Now we live in a decent area, live a much lower "profile" and are trying to be as "invisible" as possible, while making sure our current situation has the best possible tactical (albeit low profile) advantage as possible. We've down rather well, I think. WE have an excellent alarm system, supplemented by multiple well trained burglar/invader biters. Get past those and you WILL die at the hands of the residents of the home. Not really concerned about a "home invasion" yet, we try to be vigilant about what occurs and WHO is in our small neighborhood where we live. thankfully, all of the immediate neighbors are heads up and none of are "shy" about contacting (confronting) strangers in or on our neighbors property. We start out "friendly" and go from there. Not ideal, but a LOT better in my experience than planning on combat ops for multiple hours.Rather have the thugs move along to better pickings.

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Malcolm,

Well done, sir. It always amazes me how quickly people forget their panic. The lack of history condemns them I fear. Their 'normalcy bias' ( http://modernsurvivalblog.com/survival-skills/overcome-your-normalcy-bias/ ) won't let them see that things can, and will, get bad again. Sounds like you are in a much better position now.

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Well Malcolm, MZB aside, I prefer either to be totally invisible or so dangerous looking that I'm a deterrent. If I were a gang of looters, and I saw lived in houses with a friendly security force that didn't have a paramilitary look to it, I'd assume you have resources but could be worth the "transaction costs" of raiding you. In LA, the MZB seem a bit more imminent, but regardless, I'm either going to burn a couple buildings down, destroy other property, and hide in hole to try and tell the MZB that I've already been looted and killed, or I'm shooting them off they're bikes from a long way off and they can ride through interlocking sectors of fire. Both extremes, however, realistically I think a rapidly removable paramilitary uniform (think Martial Law conditions) and a perimeter with checkpoints, sentries, roving sentries, QRF, and overwatches, is more realistic than sandbagged fighting positions for a worst case threat scenario.

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Well Malcolm, MZB aside, I prefer either to be totally invisible or so dangerous looking that I'm a deterrent. If I were a gang of looters, and I saw lived in houses with a friendly security force that didn't have a paramilitary look to it, I'd assume you have resources but could be worth the "transaction costs" of raiding you. In LA, the MZB seem a bit more imminent, but regardless, I'm either going to burn a couple buildings down, destroy other property, and hide in hole to try and tell the MZB that I've already been looted and killed, or I'm shooting them off they're bikes from a long way off and they can ride through interlocking sectors of fire. Both extremes, however, realistically I think a rapidly removable paramilitary uniform (think Martial Law conditions) and a perimeter with checkpoints, sentries, roving sentries, QRF, and overwatches, is more realistic than sandbagged fighting positions for a worst case threat scenario.

 

In a lot (most?) riot prone areas the hordes know the honest folks are disarmed. The "occupy Houston" crowd are polite to the point of being invisible (not sure they're still here) - reason? Every other Texans is packing. We had a riot in Houston back it the day. It lasted until a LEO was shot (friendly fire accident, actually) then the LEO's pulled back, the National Guard came up and literally blew away the top couple of floors in the building the rioters were using for a base. End of riot. There is a great deal of advantage to not letting your preps be seen, being invisible is best. Just remember, if you can hit them, they can hit you. Once you've fired, you are absolutely at risk every time you expose yourself. Changing sentries can get folks killed. If you have to go outside for ANYTHING (dumping the 'honeydew' tank comes to mind) then you're a target once you've fired on someone. I know I'd be lurking, waiting on an opportunity; they probably will too if it gets there.

 

I'd also be very careful with fire. If my neighbors house catches on fire, then my house will burn without fire department intervention. I'd have to figure on HOW to burn down next door and WHEN to do it. On my roof with a hose to protect my place would keep me from burning but I'd be a target. That also means, in most neighborhoods, if the BG's can set fire to any house, that side of the street goes and/or the 'security' team must now become fire fighters. They are now targets.

 

IF I have to engage in a fire fight with a group of any significant size then I must GOOD as soon as I can. My place is no longer safe. While I don't see major combat in any scenario I think is reasonable, others disagree. If you think that major combat is part of what will happen, then you need to think through the entire thing. My 'acceptable casualty rate' is zero when it comes to my group. If you're planning combat ops, it will run between 3 and 7% if your good, much higher if your not. That's family and friends dead. My combat scenarios all involve fire and maneuver to break contact and the E&E out of the area. Think about the book 'Patriots'. The folks who tried to hold their area, died. In 'Lights Out' they held their area BUT the good guys had full support of the LEO that was still there (for most of the book, anyway), they had combat arms, they had horse cavalry, they still suffered significant loses (would have been more but they had skilled medical staff) and they did this with essentially an infantry company sized group. Those are quite a few advantages.

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I left a comment on the blog a minute ago, I'd like some input:

 

"Personally, I dislike tents for the same reason I dislike sleeping bags: Because I can't fight easily from it. I'm not a fan of using tents and sleeping bags in regular camping let alone a collapse. If my buddy on watch yells "CONTACT" or wakes me quietly, I'd rather throw the blanket off me and roll out from under a tarp ready to return fire if need be. Just my 2 cents. P.S. I'm arachnophobic, and I still reject tents and sleeping bags."

 

As I stated, much to my friend's dismay, I REQUIRE a fire watch, or sentry even if there is no fire. Is this a bit much in anybody's opinion?

 

blankets are fine,like them myself.many soilders have died because of sleeping bags.but the sweeds came out with good 1 for 30 below.it has sleves like a coat,snaps at bottom,so you can unsnap & pull up wear it like a coat.as for myself , in cold weather,thats a good trade.

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