Drew_Forge

9mm loads?

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Okay, so I've been having a bit of trouble finding a really GOOD load for my Sig P320 compact for a practice round. I've been playing around with a few, but nothing really seems to produce better than like 3" groups at 12 yards. The best I've been able to come up with is 4.5 grains of TiteGroup under a 115 FMJ, but it's nothing to write home about. And I know the gun is capable of good accuracy; it'll shoot 124-grain Sig Sauer Elite JHP ammo into a ragged one-hole group at 12 yards. So what are you guys running for 9mm loads?

 

For components, I have readily available:

POWDERS - Unique, TiteGroup, Bullseye, HP-38

PROJECTILES - 115 grn Berry's plated bullets, 124 grn Berry's plated, 124 grn cast lead

Primers are CCI small pistol.

 

...aaaaaaannnndddd...GO!

 

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One thing I did notice was your bullets are copper plated LEAD the barrel twist or some other anomaly could be an issue E-Mail SIG and ask them about cast or plated bullets give them all the information something tells me slower and or heavier may be the ticket.  its all

 

Sounds to me like the load is not HOT enough.  or too hot so load up 5 in each by increment of 1 grain  shoot a group of each

and see what it get best one is a keeper.

 

I do not like to list online and give a warning that I am not responsible for use of same  ^_^  I have a 45th edition Lyman load book that lists

and I could have read it wrong BUT here is what I though I saw

Bullseye for a 124 grain jacketed bullet 3.5 grn @ 909 fps  up to 4.8 grn @ 1142 FPS

Unique for a 124 grain jacketed bullet  4.3 grn @ 891 FPS up to 5.8 grn @ 1149 FPS

 

Cast bullets but for 121 grain cast but I do not see 3 grains as a deal breaker except MAYBE at the top of the powder charge

bullseye for a 121 grn cast 3.5 grn @ 990 FPS up to 4.8 grn @1212 FPS

Unique for a 121 grain cast 4.4 grn @ 999  FPS up to 6.0 @ 1143 FPS

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I find 124 grain projectiles tend to group tighter in most handguns, than 115 grains bullets.

Try 147 grains projectiles if you can find them, very hard to find in my neck of the woods.

I use Frontier & Zeros Projectiles for copper plated bullets, that I buy.

I do cast bullets when I have time, haven't done any in the past 1.5 years.

Too many projects on the go.

HP-38 is the same powder as Winchester 231 that you have.

Try 124 grain Zeros with 4 to 4.1 grains of bullseye & Federal small pistol primer with Winchester caseing.

I crimp my casings, some folks don't.

Having a crimp will build a bit more pressure in the load.

If you have a chrony you should get about 1,000 to 1,050 FPS mark.

Oh, let it be clear. I will not be held responsible for these loads, the onus is up to you, & your own doing to be clear.

For all scales weather digital or not might not might not calibrate the same as mine or others.

If you still want to load this recipe the blame & responsibility is all yours if you decide to proceed.

For those getting into reloading get some reloading manuals, like Hornady, Speers etc.

Start slow & double check your load when measuring powder.

Certainly do not want anybody injured.

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Thanks guys. Since I had a bunch of TiteGroup left in the powder measure and it's a PITA to dump the powder tube in my Dillon, I decided to run a few different powder charges, from 4.0 grains up to the max of 4.7 grains, both with the 115 plated bullets and the 124 lead RN bullets. Maybe we'll have a breakthrough...I'll stop at the range on the way home and give 'er a whirl.

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I now, use only JHP bullets for all my reloading, just in case I need them for something more than range duty.

I have found that being a rank amateur history buff, the 9mm was designed around a 124 grain projectile, hence the inherent accuracy in "most" 9mm pistols for that weight bullet.

I remain hesitant to post MY (extremely subjective) favorite reloading compilations, since, on any public forum, there are always some knuckle- heads, that will says "Gee...if X is pretty fast, I can bump it up a little higher and get SUPER X results!"

I hav e seen first hand the results of such "thinking", at the range some years back from a fellow several bays down from me, who KA-BOOMED his pistol...forgot which brand it was, but he wound up with part of his slide stuck partially in his fo'haid...he survived.

That incident reminds me to this day, that: a.), People ARE too stupid., b.) just because you CAN, never means you should...

I use .355 sized bullets in the 124 JHP weight for reloading in all my 9mm pistols, AND, my .357 revolvers, for .38 Special as well as magnum loads. I LIKE being logistically attractive.

I am also extremely fond of Titegroup powder, and CCI primers.

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It is hard to explain that changes in powder primer or cases makes it a whole new ball game and any change is exponential,

 

Military brass is thicker in the web and reduces internal capacity thus making a mild load possibly hot.

 

Each manufacturers brass is different although within SAMMI spec overall length if shorter makes the capacity less and again makes the pressure higher,  Everything has a consequence, a piece of polishing media stuck in the flash hole misreading data (use a ruler) and double check,

 

I load for accuracy muzzle velocity is a not part of the equation in modern common calibers most all break the 1,000 FPS barrier in pistol and 2,000 FPS in rifle these numbers mean the bullet should react as designed at the POI (point of impact) 25 yards for pistol and 100 yards for rifle so the bullet should expand to maximum deformation and expend all energy in the target, beyond that it is accuracy of the shooter.

 

In a semi auto it is important to have the pressure to cycle the action consistently and strike the target accurately,  in any other weapon is is important for the projectile to leave the bore completely sounds silly but it is not reduced loads or target loads in some cases may not generate enough pressure to exit the bore or a squib load it is important to pay attention to each case to insure it gets a proper powder charge progressive loaders are great but never get complacent in progressive loading cases primers and powder run out at different times if your attention is drawn away from the case powder level it is a matter of time before a squib load is created and pulling bullets to find where the issue started means scrapping the lot, as you cannot be sure at what moment the powder ran out or bridged another issue is inverted primers improper or irregular crimping  any difference in the loading will cause anomalies in accuracy or chambering.

 

Consistent and repeatable components and follow through will create consistent loads.  There are some combinations that for whatever reason not be accurate in YOUR firearm just because some gun writer states his recipe is his favorite does not mean it will work in yours.

Load data has stating loads for a reason start there load 5 or 10 put them in a baggie mark them now go to the next load and load 5 or 10 mark them and so forth go to the range bag your arm and shoot to the same POI do not move your sights if all the loads strike in a group your getting somewhere test each lot until you have the most accurate and that's your load if it functions properly in your arm.

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it got to gnawing on me and I went over some loading data and find that lawyers are reloading now WHO KNEW ?

 

Here is a site that has a lot of good loads and information here is the main page  http://www.reloadammo.com/

 

here is the 9MM load data page   http://www.reloadammo.com/9mloads.htm

 

Hard to explain but a 9MM is about equal to a 38 spl or +P load all things accounted for you either count on light & fast or heavy & slower.

Years ago the Glaser safety slug was the best round it did not ricochet expended all its energy in the target had fantastic hydrostatic shock value and dismal survivor numbers even extremity hits were fatal. it came from a combination of speed 1,500 FPS  80 grain bullet with 399 foot pounds of energy !  it was filled with shot in an epoxy resin as it the power ball 100 grain bullet at a bit lower velocity and more FTPE like 483  both of these are wicked deadly and ons you do not want to have an AD with especially if it hits a live target cause it will make it DRT (dead right there)

 

Somewhere between for the reloader is where the magic of loading your own comes into play I figure a .380 bullet 90 to 95 grain exposed tip @ max load data & velocity would have devastating results.  I would of course use a lee factory crimp on these to prevent bullet set back on chambering and using the max length with enough in the case to get that good crimp.

 

looking at the M.D. Smith data w/ unique it might get you there.as IMHO anything 1,300 FPS out of a 9MM makes it muy malo -- (mighty BAD) in any neck of the woods.

 

This is where the 7.62 X 25 Tokarev caliber was thought out limited resources or maximizing made the designers look at small light and fast their 71 grain bullet leaves the muzzle @ 1,425 FPS  somewhere in America bigger is better and thats fine but when it comes to logistics and KIA data you have to go with the numbers and it dictates extremes on both ends heavy and slow or supersonic and light bullets.

 

Pistols are last ditch short range mano e mano weapons these were never meant for taking out vehicles building entry or long range sniper use/

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Funny you bringing up the Tokarev round...I picked up a PPS43 for "urban defense", purposes as ANY Tok round will defeat soft ballistic vests.(should one find themselves being assaulted by thugs in body armor...) I've been fortunate to acquire a bit of excellent Tok ammo that my PolishPrincess really is accurate with, albeit she's "heavy", so her sling comes in handy. Haven't decided IF I am going to SBR her, or leave her in her imported "legal glory", time and events will be the deciding factors.

I use my Federal Nyclad 9mm 124 grain HP stash, in my standard pressure smaller pistols, it expands well in soft tissue, penetrates "enough", as I am not an FBI alumnus, I don't give a poop about "THIER" protocols, most of their agents are lousy shots anyway.

I load a goodly amount of 115 JHP rounds into .38/.357'. And 9mm cases with excellent results.

I have been "experimenting" with some 90 grain .355 JHPs in .380, 9mm and .38 Specials for grins and giggles.

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3 interesting pistol calibers are 7.62 X 25  the 5.7 FN  and  22 Magnum.  The best is the 5.7 but it ain't cheap next is the Tokarev and last is the 22 Magnum BUT there is not a semi auto good enough to call durable I had hopes for the 22 automag but it has some feed problems and durability issues as far as I recall the keltec well we have a posting on their reputation and it is hit and miss.

 

All three have a very flat bullet trajectory for urban use most are compact and ammo weight is negligible for 1K worth.

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