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Danm

Capitalist...Socialist what's this mean to America?

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I am going to try and sort out the crappola from the truth about the USA, Socialism and Capitalism. This election year more than any in my memory these words are being tossed around and mostly what is being said is just out and out lies and ignorance.

 

Fist off you need to understand, capitalism is a big part of the original plan that our founding Fathers. They had come out of Europe basically trying to avoid and get away from the ENDLESS wars and persecutions that was just a natural part of Europe's various Monarchies and the Religious based wars.

 

In a monarchy the royalty owns virtually everything and if you aren't born royal no amound of hard work will get you ahead without a powerful patron. They would hang you for gathering wood in a forest in the middle of the winter and even the bunnies there were private property. The US was intentionally set up such that basically any citizen, with hard work, wise investment and a little luck could become rich and powerful. American Capitalism is part of our core values. Note that I said AMERICAN capitalism. This will be discussed a little further on.

 

The other side of Capitalism that is to most people the exact opposite is Socialism. Socialism is generally associated with places like North Korea, China, Cuba and the old USSR. The fact is that of these only Cuba is/was actually a socialist state. True Capitalism, in the end, is no different than a Monarchy. Think of the Game Monopoly. In the end one person owns everything and everyone else is out in the cold and broke. THAT is the aim of raw capitalism. Romney was a true capitalist. He thought that the middle class started at the people that make a quarter million a year.

 

Our founding fathers were brilliant and set up a system that balanced these two political concepts again t each other. For almost 250 years it worked amazingly well. America when it works as intended is a capitalistic socialism. This is a FACT. The base was basically a capitalist state but as the system moved up it was more and more controlled by socialist based laws.

 

The original set up of our government and sociaty was made to try and avoid the things that in Europe had caused so many revolution. When all the wealth is in too few hands and there is widespread poverty heads roll eventually. Pure socialism seems to mostly lead to universal poverty where a few “leaders” have all the power and all the wealth and once again heads will roll eventually.

 

The way they balanced it was brilliant. The laws were made such that personal wealth was pushed to be more of a societal wealth by forcing the rich to put their wealth back into the economy or lose it. Import taxes were stiff. This insured that it was more profitable for Americans to make their products here than to make it elsewhere and import it. Taxes were used to force the rich to share. Income tax was especially effective. In 1963s you paid a 90% tax on personal incomes of $400,000.00.

 

What all of this did was force the very wealthy to reinvest the profets of their companies back into the companies in the US instead of pocketing it or shipping it out of the country. Under this sort of taxation Sam Walton became the Richest man in the world as did people like Howard Hughs and many others. Basically before the mid 60s wealth in America was asset based rather than personal wealth.

 

Slowly this has been torn down and socialism has been demonized while capitalism has become “The American way.” What this means to most Americans is not so good. The wealthy and super wealthy now pocket the profits of the companies rather than reinvest and consider corporate bankruptcy to be a great way to get out of paying pensions and such. Now they are just basically DUMPING Americans and moving their factories out of the country to where they can pay a dollar and hour to people that don;t even know what bebefits are. They are just happy to have a job and to get to eat every day. It is corporate heaven!! No Unions, No OSHA, No EPA nothing except a few government bribes and they can do whatever they want!

 

Anyone that says anything about the millions of Americans that are getting dumps and screwed are branded evil socialists! Think about this. Carrier is moving to Mexico where their costs of operation will be less than half of what it is in America...does that mean that their prices for their products is going to go down by a big percentage for American Consumers? DREAM ON!!! All it means is that a bunch of billionaires will be another O closer to being trillionaires while more Americans move closer and closer to poverty.

 

The part about all of this that is most troublesome is in the understanding of what our founding fathers worked so hard to avoid... They weren't all that adverse to revolution obviously. What they WERE scared spitless of was revolutions based on lower class misery. The American revolution was a from the top down revolution. Adjusted for inflation George Washington was the most wealthy man to ever be a President. Trump if elected would be the only one close! Jefferson, Franklin...the founders were not poor downtrodden paupers.

 

The difference is that revolutions that come up from the bottom trand to be a lot uglier and more bloody. Also the end results seem to not end up well for even the winners in the long run. This is where you end up with people like Hitler, Lenin/Stalin, Chiang Kai-shek/Mao Tse-tung and a lot of other bloody monsters in power. When you have nothing to lose you aren't always real careful who you pick to lead your revolution.

 

If you look back in History revolutions that come UP from a down trodden poverty the results are seldom good. The Founders wanted England's King OUT but they did not want to turn America into a potential time bomb either. They looked around and created something totally new. A non-government government with a socialist/capitalist economy that encouraged excellence while avoiding turning it into a rich owns all while the poor owns nothing Aristocracy.

 

Throughout most of the life of the USA this has worked amazingly well. HOWEVER, when the balance goes off the results are just awful. History is cyclic and nearly everything you see happening today has come around before. The periods where the capitalistic side became massively ascendent were in the 1850's through the 1860's then again in the 1920's through the 1930's. That one was actually an extension of a problem that started but was interrupted by WW1. There was a short period in the early 60's then the current one that basically has been growing since the 2000's started.

 

If you will note, all of these sort of ended with some sort of war that was prefaced by some seriously hard times. What happens it that the rich push and buy legislation that allows them to rake in more money and pay less taxes. FDR WAS a socialist and his New Deal pissed off the rich but if he hadn't died Americans might have just kept electing him. HE is specificity the reason that Presidents now have a two term 2 limit.

 

Think of it like this. WHO owns this country? When the US bought the Louisiana Purchase or Alaska who actually OWNED it. The fact is that the answer is “the American People”. It isn't socialism to say that the rich shouldn't be the only ones to benefit every time the country makes an addition to the country. Sadly though in the end most of the wealth ends up in the hands of a few.

 

All the American version of Socialism does is to make the rich share it back into the country in the form of jobs and investments. When the taxes were 90% that didn't mean that the rich paid all that much in taxes. What it meant was that they had to build factories HERE and hire Americans so that they could use this as deductions. In the end they were just as wealthy but were at the same time they were building a strong America. We won WW2 mostly because we had a just HUGE industrial base that we converted to military production.

 

The fact is that if we had to go to war now we would be totally out of luck! The rich are steadily moving our industry out of the country. What you need to understand is that in a bind we could rebuild some of the factories but you can't just pop out the skilled craftsmen that it takes to make this work. Their wealth is now personal rather than asset based. They are now parasites rather than symbionts on the American culture.

 

I don't wish to live in a Socialist Gulag state but neither do I wish to be a serf in an elitist capitalistic Aristocracy where the rich own everything and the only other citizens are the dirt poor with nothing in the middle. Balance is what is needed .

 

 

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TOO LATE Damn we are already and have always been a convoluted government no real form was adhered to look at the Irish being abused as well as every other race creed and religion at one time or other.

 

we have had jackbooted thugs in the mining industry at the time they were our own military remember the veterans that were kicked off the white house lawn ?

 

then there is the Civil war vets were given a stipends that is socialism we have never had any particular form it has always been like a frog in a blender a little of this a little of that as far as monarchy well we have families here that are treated like royalty immune from most any law or attack.

certain parts of the country are socialists try doing something they do not like the avalanche of trouble will bury you.

 

Freedom is B.S. it's a word a catch phrase reality is unless you can afford to fight with a battery of lawyers you will be trampled on.

our history is filled with depravity greed and bigotry even hate and murder.

I remember the old saying life is a sh*t sandwich the more bread you have the less sh*t you have to eat, No truer words were ever spoken IMHO.

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I'm afraid that you may be right. It may be to late for any resolution that doesn't include violence but then again that wouldn't be a first time. As was said the Tree of liberty has to be regularly watered with the blood of patriots.

 

If I was running things only veterans would be allowed to vote or run for office. It would be all voluntary military and everyone would be eligible to serve but unless we went to war it would be your choice whether to serve or not.  However, in my opinion if you aren't willing to fight for it you aren't good enough to run it.

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hmmm I am gonna disagree that our forefathers setup our country to be socialistic/capitalism. they didn't tax income, setup entitlements, socialize healthcare or any of the other trappings of socialism. they were pure capitalist. in fact the march for socialism/communism didn't even get started until 1848 LONG after the founding of our country.

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hmmm I am gonna disagree that our forefathers setup our country to be socialistic/capitalism. they didn't tax income, setup entitlements, socialize healthcare or any of the other trappings of socialism. they were pure capitalist. in fact the march for socialism/communism didn't even get started until 1848 LONG after the founding of our country.

Wally you would be right but by the same measure we have taken on a lot of burden because of taxes the government forgot their place and taxed us then used our money in war then we had disabled vets so many that the old Christian ( most hospitals were based off those religions) people expected not to be left crippled and wanted some measure of security.

 

Problem is that our government has decided to give everyone in the world social security free food free doctors etc etc the old system is gone and we expect our government to at least give us some security as they do the rest of the world after all it was and is our money.

 

Political correctness is nothing more than veiled socialism or communism it's roots are all the same they grow into a vine and strangle the life out of the country.

 

Our nation has had to tax for wars and in order to keep current we must keep a standing military as unlike in previous centuries we have a technological issue if it were merely bows spears and horses we could raise and army overnight not so in the last 100 + years  it takes training and money on a continuous basis.

We are always fighting to keep current or ahead in military hardware but the upside it that technology benefits us computers mobile phones satellite television radar cat scans / MRI's food storage mass production etc etc all sprung from war or the ideal of prevention.

I see taxes are needed but we the people need to have the reins on the spending our leaders are failing us and we need to take back the power of the purse.

 

We need a bit of it all as long as we set the bars correctly and monitor them I see no reason why we cannot please 3/4 of the country there are those on both sides that will never be satisfied and we should not pander to them.

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Import taxes have been around as long as we've been a country. Their sole purpose was to protect the working class from having the rich do as they are doing today and just shipping out the jobs to areas of cheaper labor and then bringing it back into the country. Personal Income tax is a fairly new thing and Social security is even newer. Nonetheless from its inception America has never been a purely capitalist nation. Over the years there have been many tools used to both redistribute the income and rein in man's seemingly natural bottomless greed. The end result of that greed is kinda like the the old Highlander's saying. "In the end there can be only one." Eventually ALL wealth in a totally capitalist State will end up in the hands of one entity/(Person, Family, Organization, Cooperation) Just like in a game of monopoly.

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Another point about the difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism essentially admits to the fact that by our human nature (you call it sinful nature or 'survival of the fittest nature' depending on your leanings), is rooted in self-preservation and selfishness. Humans are this way, plain and simple. Socialism panders to the idea that people are inherently good by their human nature and if you give them enough money, time, stuff, entitlements, etc., they will pull themselves up by their ole boot straps and be great. Capitalism plays more and accurately so to the true human motivation and therefore it's based in competition. 

 

People like to discuss these two concepts but they discuss them seemingly separated from the actual human beings in some sort of nebulous fashion. It doe snot work that way.

 

Capitalism isn't so and neither is socialism just because, they are the way they are with their various strengths and failings due to the human element - AKA our nature and what is truly is versus what everybody pie in the sky wants it to be.

 

Personally, I think a balance between the two is a load of crud. Capitalism makes the most sense WHEN it is tempered with virtue (a la what Adams and Jefferson penned). Capitalism measures mankind by its truest form. Virtue is the balance of capitalism, socialism is not.

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I'm afraid that you may be right. It may be to late for any resolution that doesn't include violence but then again that wouldn't be a first time. As was said the Tree of liberty has to be regularly watered with the blood of patriots.

 

If I was running things only veterans would be allowed to vote or run for office. It would be all voluntary military and everyone would be eligible to serve but unless we went to war it would be your choice whether to serve or not.  However, in my opinion if you aren't willing to fight for it you aren't good enough to run i

Well, I'm not willing to fight for it by signing up for the military. I do not think women should serve in the military. So, do smart, well-educated and patriotic women like me not get to vote?

 

I respectfully disagree that active and veteran military should get to vote and be the only voters. By the way, with the advances in technology, it seems like fewer and fewer actual human fighters are needed. So that's a pretty small voting block and it will only get smaller.

 

Also, what about the men who couldn't serve, like my husband's grandfather who couldn't serve in the military because he had back problems and they wouldn't let him in? How do you account for the disabled, the women, and the otherwise patriotic and good citizen types who for whatever reason are not in the military?

 

Lastly, being a solider is great. I respect that. But what about all us moms who stay home and raise future good, engaged, American citizens? We don't get a say? My voice isn't valid because I don't have a patch on my arm. I'm calling bullshit! Boo!

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I have several friends that have Daughters in the various services. I'm not a veteran myself so it isn't something personal. All that I'm trying to say is that allowing people that won't work, aren't even Americans, are criminals, are mentally deficient, etc run our country doesn't seem to be working well right now. In the end though, no I don't believe that anyone that won't serve their country needs to be running it. If you don't think it is worth fighting for then it is just a matter of time before someone takes it away from you.

 

The Veteran thing is just one of several things I would try and have mentioned. LOL, I really do think that a lotto might make for an interesting form of government. When the Government fights a State that is just trying to make sure WHO IS voting then it is eventually going to be against the law for states to count the votes. The Feds will just TELL us who won. We are getting real close to there right now.

 

The basic fact of human nature is that people in general only share when they are forced to. Raw capitalism is the beast ALL beast and Socialism is the Fool and is all foolish. All governments are efforts made by the people in that culture to find a balance that they can live with. Ying and Yang is is just the human condition. We have the body  and instincts of animals and yet a kiss of spirit that we call soul that is a gift that fights with that animal.

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Soon it will be a moot point as the gov has already made drafting women legal I do not care as I am old and screw this ignorant generation like all generations they have brought a lot on themselves.

 

The one problem is inconsistency America has a 4 year outlook and either party will set the other up for failure and they really do not care about the troops they are but pawns look at both sides pandering with false concern for the fallen and then cut funding and private charities have to serve our veterans 250 different charities it proof our government does not care and still the V.A. is playing games and less than a half dozen fired.

 

Instead of hands up don't shoot or occupy wall street or legalize pot free condoms and needles GLBT friendly bathrooms and worrying about illegal aliens that are defacto felons the young people need to worry about getting drafted and killed in the sand for the greater glory of the corporate greed.

all the while the veterans benefits are slashed and they are treated lees than a illegal alien.

because it is they, the young today that will be the honored dead of tomorrow filling the veterans graveyards tombs of the unknown soldier zipping around in wheel chairs with no limbs etc etc.

 

this is not WWII they do not have intercontinental capabilities we do not allow them nor large navies  unless we allow it neither do we need to allow entry into our sphere of influence protectionism LMAO if people do not fear you you do not let them wander through your house we are the butt of every joke a laugh track.

Until we are ready willing and able to fight without rules kill without remorse and finish the job. we pussyfooted around and now Russia and Iran are now buddies with a treaty we played too late we could have blew them out of their shoes but now we cant because if we do Russia is bound by treaty to go to war with Iran's aggressor/s.

we let China build islands now how long did we dally for them to BUILD AN ISLAND ? North Korea should be sporting a bloody nose and sore nuts but we act like we are not overly concerned of a viper in our closet, as long as we ignore it it will stay there.

 

We do the same here murderers seldom get the penalty they deserve we release illegal alien felons and do not deport them we legalize drugs that are proven to have long term lung and mental damage we treat our water with Porzac you know it a fluoride but the chemical is the same it was tested in Nazi Germany along with many other medical testing on Jews and homosexuals and mentally challenged men women and children by Dr. Mengala

and his cohorts.

 

We have aborted 50 million and let in more than that to make up for the shortfall in social security and taxes we have replaced good old Americans with interlopers that have no allegiance or respect for this country it's laws or it's values we now have the highest single parent country we rank 29th in math and sciences but our children can all twerk and text and do selfies and think they are mad skills.

The can't drive a nail do plumbing or repair vehicles can't farm build and are afraid of large animals do not know where food comes from can't cook dried or fresh food much less hunt fish kill or process the flesh thereof they are dying in waves from walking into vehicles or open manholes while texting tweeting or updating their facebook status today in Houston 5 accidents from distracted driving one fatality probably a hundred thousand dollars of damage or MORE.

 

We share a space station borrow our own money sell our homes back to the government getting back our own money after they taxed it and our children are to proud or lazy to take most jobs that is why all the trades are Hispanic worker when was the last time you saw a black or white group working a hiway project ? work on a roofing company driving a cab etc etc etc and then most that do go to college do not graduate or do with so much debt they will never make a living past minimum wage after paying back that debt.

 

Most homes have more than one mortgage and refi as soon as they have equity or a lower rate not paying attention to the pay off date.

and trade in for a new vehicle before they have paid off the previous one.

 

And from the CDC young people aged 15–24 years acquire half of all new STDs1 and that 1 in 4 sexually active adolescent females have an STD, such as chlamydia or human papillomavirus (HPV).2 Compared with older adults, sexually active adolescents aged 15–19 years and young adults aged 20–24 years are at higher risk of acquiring STDs for a combination of behavioral, biological, and cultural reasons. For some STDs,

 

For every other negative action just draw a straight line up even murder is on the rise again after for many years it was dropping you can thank all those foreign gangs for a lot of that 35,000 of them and over half are not American ones.

espionage and other serious crimes are increasing exponentially along our borders blackmail extortion and kidnapping gunrunning and other activities

funny money from China 1 million a day not to mention forged silver and gold bullion and coinage and  local morons doing it.

 

Problem is I have barley scratched the surface ...... it is not that this has not happened all along it is just that the balance is shifting and we are about to fall off the edge IMHO.

 

Capitalism or socialism it's neither it's blatant proud and profane and celebrated ignorance  

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Snake I think that you and I are maybe just old FARTS. We see a world that makes so little sense to us. They say that ignorance is bliss. If this is true there are several million young people out there that are BLISStered.

 

They don't seem to be able to tell the difference between the REAL world and the VIRTUAL world. I had a 20 something year old tell me what a great shot he was. As we talked it seemed a little strange to me because he claimed to be such a great shot but seemed  to be woefully ignorant about most of the minutia of target acquisition, ballistics or the nuts and bolts of guns. After a bit he informed me that he rated sniper plus on some military video game. ????WHAT???? The fact is he hasn't shot much at all in reality but just doesn't seem to understand that there is a difference. To many of the kids these days they look at the ability to look stuff up on their phones as the same as KNOWING about something. VERRRRY strange to me.

 

The women in the military thing is sort of simple to me. Part of the problems in this country today is that EVERYBODY is talking about rights. I am absolutely behind ALL Americans having the same rights. I may not like someone but will fight for their right to be treated in a fair and equal fashion...in ALL WAYS. To me freedom is sort of an all or nothing thing. I don't believe that you can be kinda free. You either are or you ain't! The thing is that if you want ALL the rights you will also need to shoulder all the RESPONSIBILITIES that come along with all those rights. Sorry you are NOT my equal if you want to pick and choose what responsibilities you want to do and be absolved for those that you don't like then you are NOT an equal.

 

Women, just like the blacks will need to go to war if they want to be full and equal partners with those that bought your freedom with their blood and lives. The Black men were not actually allowed to do much in WW2. They were also held back in Korea to a lesser extent. Finally in Vietman they were fully integrated into the military and when those men came home they were changed by their experiences. What they knew that their forefathers didn't understand is that true freedom can't be GIVEN. You have to demand it and TAKE it for it to be real. Anything that is GIVEN can be just as easily taken away but once you prove that you will fight for it it is now truly yours. Let me tell you Snake, the ladies that I know that have been to Iraq and Afghanistan didn't come home the same. They are by GOD Americans and they don't ASK to be treated right they DEMAND it!...And they DESERVE IT!!

 

People can be equal but that doesn't mean that they are the same. I haven't met many women that are capable of the strength and power of a simular sized man. Everyone isn't cut out to be a grunt jar head but that doesn't mean that they can't serve with valor and honor. Those that can...well you go girl!!! My daughter could have done it. She is 6' tall and turned 18 in Norfolk competing in the Junior Olympics. She flew there from Seattle where she was in the NCAA finals that year. She is a freak though and not you typical female. You don't need to be big to push a button or drives a tank. Let them serve and in doing so earn and DEMAND their equality!

 

I as a man am an odd sort. I LIKE strong women and don't ever feel threatened by them. My wife is one tough gal. She worked in prison for 25 years mostly on the max, super max units and Death Row units. She is a dental hygienist and since she retired has mostly missed it and her delinquent bad boys. 

 

I see a lot of Gray things in the world Snake. I'm not a black and white only sort of person. Like abortion...in the first trimester it is like having a wart removed. In the last trimester is is just plain up and up MURDER. In between somewhere the line is crossed. I would err on the side of life and say no abortions after 3 or 4 months max. To me though it is kinder to kill a baby than have it born to a woman that WOULD kill it in that last trimester. My wife and I had to make a decision on a personal level. We had an oops pregnancy when we just were screwed by this. My daughter was 9 my wife had just graduated and started out in her new career. We had lost our home and moved away from our families to go to work. It was just two months into it when we found out. Man we didn't want to do this at that time!! But we just couldn't abort. If this life was given into our care we would accept and love it. My wife miscarried in the 4th month. Abortion wasn't something we could do but I wouldn't force a baby on someone that didn't want it if they were no further along that we were.

 

When I look into the future I see a lot of rough roads ahead for kids. They all want to go to school then college then become bosses and start where their parents worked for 30 years to get to. As our government ships out all of our factory jobs and shuts down out oil and coal industries I'm not sure exactly who that are going to be in middle management over. The thing is most of them don't know how to work and have no skills like we did. I was always working on my own car and during the summers worked as "slave" labor on various construction sites. I learned several construction trades then moved indoors and became a machinist.

 

When the oil industry went toes up in the 80s I put my wife through collage loading trucks. I'm sorry but most of these kids today just aren't up to living a tough life. Too many of the Baby Boomer's kids are Boomerangs and they keep coming back  to their parents. I can't imagine living with my parents in my mid 20s much less in my mid 30s!!! I was out at 19 and my wife married me a week after she graduated high school at 18.

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I think just for some clarification we all need to plumb the depths of just what is out form of governance.

 

We do have some socialist agencies BUT unless we treat them as a socialist government would and we have we need not fear them.

Social Security was and is a self funded by the beneficiaries only problem we let the elected officials raid it and waste it, that was a horrible mistake.

 

there is nothing wrong with looking out for the old the infirm or the mentally challenged it is a honor or glory to our country that we do it is BIBLICAL

We are the First and few of the countries that cared enough to insure we took care of people and not just let them die in the street.

This actually helps in the fight against greed if we act like a dog eat dog society that is what we will be.

 

we are NOT NOW but have been a fairly free nation not perfect but we have backsliden so far we may as well be that dog eat dog world.

the reason I cannot be a full fledged democrat or republican is that both are asking me to ignore freedom and chose their way alone I cannot see or claim any other ideology that is not freedom and never will be it is slavery to a master.

 

If we are free why do the right and left still try to decide for us abortion why if I hate it have to fund it and if you want it why then do you force me to agree with it ? Force being the pivotal word  -- force is slavery and that I can never abide.

as far as someone wanting an abortion go for it I am not your master I do ask that both sides be offered in a simple format with all the information

if you stil then choose one or the other it should be without force.

 

I will say that if a man was crossing the road and you ran over him on purpose that is murder if a person removes a fetus that is on the road to life that is only tissue ? I can prove my point there are about 69 versus in the Bible here is a link

http://www.openbible.info/topics/i_knew_you_before_you_were_born

If these words do not alter your intention then carry on this should be a free country but with freedom comes great responsibility.

 

neither Religious nor anti religious groups should be able to stop the free flow of information or services of the other and each individual on their own property or business should act according to their beliefs otherwise we are a 2 faced and untrustworthy nation of liars and fakers.

and that will fester and create monstrous results history records this for thousands of years.

 

I do not have to hate you if you do something against what I believe as long as the other is not overcompensating if I have a manger scene 10x10 and then my neighbor puts up an entire yard of demonic subject matter thats fine but to have sound to annoy that is absurd on either side.

 

Human rights are like --- lets say a frying pan everyone should have them and use them but not on or against each other.

as far as the Pledge of Allegiance either say it fully with pride or sit silently and respect those that do uphold it.

 

If the word God upsets you then Dog should upset you as well because the agnostics have railed on this for years one is as the other to them.

if your so offended by any word as to break out into fits of violence your mental and need to seek therapy words are not the problem it is the action taken by people that are offensive.

Anarchists in the 1800 hated the word freedom choice and voting some people fly into a fit if you serve pea soup we cannot plase everyone but neither do we have to be abrasive or viscous toward anyone just because we have a different view.

 

It should ba a rule that if you do not pay for something you should not have a say in its use or get any benefit of it and those that want or need a substitute should look to charities and like minded people to support their views IMHO.

Then that makes the individual responsible not the system.

 

Taxes I am not against taxes it funds many jobs and things I use everyday roads bridges traffic lights airports and many other things where I draw the line is schools every evil government first tried and got command of the school system that needs to stay with the sate and nations levels of competency can be agreed upon the correct answers to math science and anatomy and being able to comprehend words remain the same everywhere in China 1+1 still equals 2 so lets get real this is a power and subversive ploy to control schools and children not for their benefit.

 

I see legal bigotry every day and then those same groups have the gall to use my tax dollars and portrait others as the problem that is insane and costs we the taxpayer billions and also has become a arm of the green and eco terrorist lot pushing an agenda that does not look after humanity but proposes to kill it off to 5000 million all while using technology to do it and it becoming reality that would destroy all technology as it is the root cause of division all anyone has to do is see the stupid infighting of twitter and its totalitarian reactions and kicks people off so---- it is not a free place to have an opinion ?

 

Freedom it is the most important word of any time and also the most misused misunderstood and vile to many it means you MUST coexist with others views and actions as long as they are not violent or beyond decibel level by law and time restraints so be it.

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Snake I think that you and I are maybe just old FARTS. We see a world that makes so little sense to us. They say that ignorance is bliss. If this is true there are several million young people out there that are BLISStered.

 

They don't seem to be able to tell the difference between the REAL world and the VIRTUAL world. I had a 20 something year old tell me what a great shot he was. As we talked it seemed a little strange to me because he claimed to be such a great shot but seemed  to be woefully ignorant about most of the minutia of target acquisition, ballistics or the nuts and bolts of guns. After a bit he informed me that he rated sniper plus on some military video game. ????WHAT???? The fact is he hasn't shot much at all in reality but just doesn't seem to understand that there is a difference. To many of the kids these days they look at the ability to look stuff up on their phones as the same as KNOWING about something. VERRRRY strange to me.

 

The women in the military thing is sort of simple to me. Part of the problems in this country today is that EVERYBODY is talking about rights. I am absolutely behind ALL Americans having the same rights. I may not like someone but will fight for their right to be treated in a fair and equal fashion...in ALL WAYS. To me freedom is sort of an all or nothing thing. I don't believe that you can be kinda free. You either are or you ain't! The thing is that if you want ALL the rights you will also need to shoulder all the RESPONSIBILITIES that come along with all those rights. Sorry you are NOT my equal if you want to pick and choose what responsibilities you want to do and be absolved for those that you don't like then you are NOT an equal.

 

Women, just like the blacks will need to go to war if they want to be full and equal partners with those that bought your freedom with their blood and lives. The Black men were not actually allowed to do much in WW2. They were also held back in Korea to a lesser extent. Finally in Vietman they were fully integrated into the military and when those men came home they were changed by their experiences. What they knew that their forefathers didn't understand is that true freedom can't be GIVEN. You have to demand it and TAKE it for it to be real. Anything that is GIVEN can be just as easily taken away but once you prove that you will fight for it it is now truly yours. Let me tell you Snake, the ladies that I know that have been to Iraq and Afghanistan didn't come home the same. They are by GOD Americans and they don't ASK to be treated right they DEMAND it!...And they DESERVE IT!!

 

People can be equal but that doesn't mean that they are the same. I haven't met many women that are capable of the strength and power of a simular sized man. Everyone isn't cut out to be a grunt jar head but that doesn't mean that they can't serve with valor and honor. Those that can...well you go girl!!! My daughter could have done it. She is 6' tall and turned 18 in Norfolk competing in the Junior Olympics. She flew there from Seattle where she was in the NCAA finals that year. She is a freak though and not you typical female. You don't need to be big to push a button or drives a tank. Let them serve and in doing so earn and DEMAND their equality!

 

I as a man am an odd sort. I LIKE strong women and don't ever feel threatened by them. My wife is one tough gal. She worked in prison for 25 years mostly on the max, super max units and Death Row units. She is a dental hygienist and since she retired has mostly missed it and her delinquent bad boys. 

 

I see a lot of Gray things in the world Snake. I'm not a black and white only sort of person. Like abortion...in the first trimester it is like having a wart removed. In the last trimester is is just plain up and up MURDER. In between somewhere the line is crossed. I would err on the side of life and say no abortions after 3 or 4 months max. To me though it is kinder to kill a baby than have it born to a woman that WOULD kill it in that last trimester. My wife and I had to make a decision on a personal level. We had an oops pregnancy when we just were screwed by this. My daughter was 9 my wife had just graduated and started out in her new career. We had lost our home and moved away from our families to go to work. It was just two months into it when we found out. Man we didn't want to do this at that time!! But we just couldn't abort. If this life was given into our care we would accept and love it. My wife miscarried in the 4th month. Abortion wasn't something we could do but I wouldn't force a baby on someone that didn't want it if they were no further along that we were.

 

When I look into the future I see a lot of rough roads ahead for kids. They all want to go to school then college then become bosses and start where their parents worked for 30 years to get to. As our government ships out all of our factory jobs and shuts down out oil and coal industries I'm not sure exactly who that are going to be in middle management over. The thing is most of them don't know how to work and have no skills like we did. I was always working on my own car and during the summers worked as "slave" labor on various construction sites. I learned several construction trades then moved indoors and became a machinist.

 

When the oil industry went toes up in the 80s I put my wife through collage loading trucks. I'm sorry but most of these kids today just aren't up to living a tough life. Too many of the Baby Boomer's kids are Boomerangs and they keep coming back  to their parents. I can't imagine living with my parents in my mid 20s much less in my mid 30s!!! I was out at 19 and my wife married me a week after she graduated high school at 18.

 

As I was making a post I saw where you had made this one and I agree with your MURDER point but that is THEIR problem not your or mine they ar killing off the person that could love and care for them in times of need as far as I am concerned abortion should be legal until a child is 18 I think that would stem the flow of idiots in the world today.

 

as to your opinion on the virtual community and that is not only children I have met many 30+ somethings that have that same smirk of I know more than you and I can do anything and wear velcro shoes because they never learned to tie them.

 

I understand your frustration with virtualites ( a new word for not adept to  / or  living in  the real world)

But you can't fix stupid but life will level the playing field and in due time more than half of the people living on this planet will be deleted by things that they will have no control of famine disease and other natural events as well as war it is coming to a head and people in the virtual think they can produce a solution and they may can but being able to build or make and use it is the reality side they cannot fathom.

 

God is all knows all and sees all --- all I am concerned with is His acceptance and I got that by Jesus not anything I ever done.

The good and decent are never missed until they are gone then there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as those left realize no one is left to love and help them.

I try my best to help train and instill proper thinking I know some will not filter through until many years but like planting seed it takes time to germinate grow and produce.

I am neither immune to death or can evade it I would not wan to it is the natural order of things and that is why the virtualites will never rule the world because they fear or do not "GET IT" they are ignorant by choice lazy by virtue of their own technology self promoting self absorbed and think that a sole is on a shoe spirituality is anything but God so they make their own hell and I cannot stop that but I can inform and pray that God will open their eyes and not by the flash of lightening that goes from the east to the west because then would be too late for them.

 

I am 1 in 7.5 billion I am peddling as fast as I can I would hope other join in I am getting long in the tooth and may need replacement or at least a day off !

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Snake, do you know how to tell when a man is getting old? When you start looking at anyone under 30 as being kids and females under 25 as still little girls. I think a lot of us in the 60+ group just didn't get to be kids that long. I've worked since I we 14. So many of my friends ended up in Vietnam and even the ones that made it back home most left their youth in those jungles. We weren't ever allowed to feel 7' tall, armor plated, and untouchable like kids are now. We were raised waiting for a mushroom cloud to pop up somewhere close by. When I was 21 I was married, in debt self-supporting and running home to Mama hadn't been an option in a long time. Unlike so many people these days I took marriage very seriously. Been at it for over 40 years now and still don't have that woman trained worth a damn. I don't quit anything until I'm done with it so I figure there's still about 40 more to go. My word is still good and I still believe that honor is more important than wealth or anything else. We were just raised in a different world with different priorities.

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I do not look at just my generation my father and grandfather had it pretty tough although I started work for wages at 13 I had it way better than my parents.

 

I liked working I liked having disposable income and being able buy dinners out I did not have to worry about carrying the family debt my parents were exceptional at budgets and my father made a fantastic living but worked many hours.

I eventually worked with him and it was a treasure trove of great memories he was a hard act to follow both and a sibling are long dead.

Looking back most all the people I went to school with are dead as most all the people I have known, because of the work and other elements none of us figured we were long for this world anyway we just wanted to leave a mark.

 

My life was guided by a absolute want to be someone go as many places as I could and and try not to take sh*t off anyone and make some money.

I managed to make a mess some money went quite a way in distance but cannot say I fixed anything but I was not forgotten for better or worse  maybe thats something.

I am a product of the 60's and 70's my parents tried to show me the way but I was a hard head and a bit jaded by watching others being screwed out of their money retirement and promised the world and gave everthing to a company and get sold out.

So I decided to follow the money the action I had no loyalty as it was a blind alley for all I saw who took it.

My life has been a buckshot pattern of wins losses near misses I have had to start from nothing a few times and have had the best of everything

now I am content for the most part.

I follow Christ so naturally I am a hypocrite when you follow a perfect man all you can do is try harder but you know you will never be as perfect as He.

I love it when people call Christians names we all fall short of the perfection and purpose God / Jesus intended for us we are willful selfish and stubborn sometimes it works to our advantage as long as we place God / Jesus first and that is impossible to do all the time every day IMHO.

I never want anyone to say I acted perfect or thought I was I am NOT I know my failings hell I was there when I accomplished them who better than an eye witness to tell you I am NOT the one, but I am no quitter I follow Christ because I know He is right I fall short but that only makes me try harder to be a better person.

My salvation is secure because it is Christ promise and nothing I did it was and is a gift I accepted and not by works (lest any man should boast)

 

I just did not want my epitaph to be :  he died and never went anywhere never stood for anything and we excluded his name on this headstone because we forgot it. 

I only have a couple of OLD friends and no life long ones left some distant family that I did not see eye to eye with so we have not communicated in 45 + years and I see no reason to change that.

 

AS far as being kids until this generation not many did have a childhood but I look at a 13  year old as a man in training or lady / woman I think women should be strong not physical alone or is that even needed my mother was not a weight lifter but she could and would hold her own but she was a real lady but she had a limit on how much crap she would put up with.

 

Damn your correct honor is the most important thing I have wrestled with mine due to pride sometimes I get them entangled get a couple of other issues twisted in and you have a rope strong enough to hang yourself with nothing to do with your post this is about how I have experienced certain aspects of my character.my honor has not been in question but sometimes my motives where foggy.

I can only know that a few times I stood for something and everyone else was against "IT" and was found to be right it did not alway work in my favor

sometimes you just have to draw a line in the sand and take what comes.

 

I see young people today thinking they are doing the right thing but there is no real threat it is soft soap liberal pandering to issues that have no real world improvement or advancement just social finagling and mental gymnastics.

All these nuvo socialists and all these other hot button issues are issues that will bite them again and again as they get older and they will regret it,

once they have a family and try to make a living or build a legacy for their children IMO.

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You are right about the life of those that came before having a tough and different life. My Dad graduated High School when he was 15. He left home and worked in an aircraft factory in Dallas until he turned 16 and enlisted in the Navy during WW2. Back then 16 was a grown man and for many young men and women it could even be as young as 12. A lot of girls married at 12 or 13. Boys went to war at that age sometimes or were at work in factories.

 

I think that our parents tried to make life a little easier for us than they had it. The world changed at the end of WW2. A lot of people left the farm to go to war and just didn't come back. As we became a more urban culture there were some changes that were natural and to be expected but many I don't think we foresaw. Farming folk need their neighbors and depend on their help for things that require a larger group of people to get it done.

 

Urban people don't really need their neighbors. My parents were close to their neighbors but then they didn't move and had the same ones for 25 years. People move a lot more often now and their TV is their friend. We are moving to something different in a cultural sense. We are going to have to do it but the transition is going to suck BAD.

 

Marriage doesn't seem to be working as it is now. We need something that will take care of the kids. Right now something like 40% of kids live in a single parent home. Even when you have two parents they still don't raise the kids half to time. They both work and the kids are raised in various daycare places. Let me tell you something, babysitters are nice but they don't replace Mamas and Dads! More and more kids seem to be isolated and while going into a cocoon works for a butterfly when it is a kid what pops out can be a monster!! Teachers are afraid of these kids.

 

I've actually had single mothers tell me that they can't control their older sons and that they are afraid of them sometimes. WHAT??? My Mama told me regularly that she brought me into this world and she could take me out of it if I don't straighten up!!! When I was 18 I was 6' 2" weighed right at 200 pounds and bench pressed between 300 and 400 pounds...and I KNEW that my Mama COULD DO IT and I straightened UP!!

 

She raised me and got her bluff in on me when I was little and those lessons learned never fade. When you turn that job over to an endless series of minimum wage babysitters you just don't always make the connections. I watched a friends kid go down this road. His friends and pears were on TV and in video games. School was a living hell for him. He was beat up so badly that he ended up in the hospital twice. I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if he had gone Columbine and shot a bunch of them.

 

This sort of thing was just not there when we were kids. A bully might give you a bloody nose but not break bones or rip joints apart. He was white and his attackers were black. When his Dad went to the school after the second beating landed him in the hospital for surgery guess what the black principal told him. “Boys will be boys. Day was just horse playin' wif him.” I left that town to get my kid OUT when she was in the second grade. He waited until they nearly killed his kid before he made a move.

 

Snake the reason Bernie Sanders does so well among the young is quite simple. It is familiar to them; it's how they were raised. What they wanted their parents GAVE them. They GAVE them things because they didn't have the time or desire to give them much else. My parents gave me some things but then again I EARNED a lot of it too. What they did give me a lot of though was their time and attention. My Dad was involved in the Boy Scouts with me and my Mom was usually my homeroom Mother in Elementary school.

 

Now days you can't even get parents to show up for parent teacher meetings or open house. A lot of these kids are almost feral! Their parents never made the “connection” with them that pulls them into our culture. Left alone they build their own culture and for many of these kids that is built around violent video games. In that world they have ways to deal with their anger and fears.

 

My Dad wasn't raised in a world that was a lot different from the one his grandfather was raised in. The roots of our culture were burred deep in our family system. Your Mama raised you and forced you to mostly conform to the same rules that she had been taught by her Mama. She was there every day, all day and she put her mark on you that never goes away. That sort of thing is GONE. A single Mom has very little time for that sort of thing. A single Dad does no better. It takes a family to raise a kid.

 

Because we are so mobile and move around so much there isn't even the larger family for lots of these people that used to be there. Hells bells most of the time the Grandparents are working and don't have much time for the kids! My Dad was raised by a single Mom. His Dad died leaving a woman with two young boys. Life was TOUGH but he had two sets of Grandparents and a dozen Aunts and Uncles. He HAD a family and they had time for him.

 

I'm afraid that chaos is coming to us. The culture that we have is unstable. It was created for and in a world that just doesn't exist anymore. We don't stay close to our families anymore. Both parents work and nobody is there to raise the kids. Kids are influenced by all manner of outside influences that didn't even exist when we were kids.

 

Change is scaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRy!!!

 

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You are right about the life of those that came before having a tough and different life. My Dad graduated High School when he was 15. He left home and worked in an aircraft factory in Dallas until he turned 16 and enlisted in the Navy during WW2. Back then 16 was a grown man and for many young men and women it could even be as young as 12. A lot of girls married at 12 or 13. Boys went to war at that age sometimes or were at work in factories.

 

I think that our parents tried to make life a little easier for us than they had it. The world changed at the end of WW2. A lot of people left the farm to go to war and just didn't come back. As we became a more urban culture there were some changes that were natural and to be expected but many I don't think we foresaw. Farming folk need their neighbors and depend on their help for things that require a larger group of people to get it done.

 

Urban people don't really need their neighbors. My parents were close to their neighbors but then they didn't move and had the same ones for 25 years. People move a lot more often now and their TV is their friend. We are moving to something different in a cultural sense. We are going to have to do it but the transition is going to suck BAD.

 

Marriage doesn't seem to be working as it is now. We need something that will take care of the kids. Right now something like 40% of kids live in a single parent home. Even when you have two parents they still don't raise the kids half to time. They both work and the kids are raised in various daycare places. Let me tell you something, babysitters are nice but they don't replace Mamas and Dads! More and more kids seem to be isolated and while going into a cocoon works for a butterfly when it is a kid what pops out can be a monster!! Teachers are afraid of these kids.

 

I've actually had single mothers tell me that they can't control their older sons and that they are afraid of them sometimes. WHAT??? My Mama told me regularly that she brought me into this world and she could take me out of it if I don't straighten up!!! When I was 18 I was 6' 2" weighed right at 200 pounds and bench pressed between 300 and 400 pounds...and I KNEW that my Mama COULD DO IT and I straightened UP!!

 

She raised me and got her bluff in on me when I was little and those lessons learned never fade. When you turn that job over to an endless series of minimum wage babysitters you just don't always make the connections. I watched a friends kid go down this road. His friends and pears were on TV and in video games. School was a living hell for him. He was beat up so badly that he ended up in the hospital twice. I wouldn't have been a bit surprised if he had gone Columbine and shot a bunch of them.

 

This sort of thing was just not there when we were kids. A bully might give you a bloody nose but not break bones or rip joints apart. He was white and his attackers were black. When his Dad went to the school after the second beating landed him in the hospital for surgery guess what the black principal told him. “Boys will be boys. Day was just horse playin' wif him.” I left that town to get my kid OUT when she was in the second grade. He waited until they nearly killed his kid before he made a move.

 

Snake the reason Bernie Sanders does so well among the young is quite simple. It is familiar to them; it's how they were raised. What they wanted their parents GAVE them. They GAVE them things because they didn't have the time or desire to give them much else. My parents gave me some things but then again I EARNED a lot of it too. What they did give me a lot of though was their time and attention. My Dad was involved in the Boy Scouts with me and my Mom was usually my homeroom Mother in Elementary school.

 

Now days you can't even get parents to show up for parent teacher meetings or open house. A lot of these kids are almost feral! Their parents never made the “connection” with them that pulls them into our culture. Left alone they build their own culture and for many of these kids that is built around violent video games. In that world they have ways to deal with their anger and fears.

 

My Dad wasn't raised in a world that was a lot different from the one his grandfather was raised in. The roots of our culture were burred deep in our family system. Your Mama raised you and forced you to mostly conform to the same rules that she had been taught by her Mama. She was there every day, all day and she put her mark on you that never goes away. That sort of thing is GONE. A single Mom has very little time for that sort of thing. A single Dad does no better. It takes a family to raise a kid.

 

Because we are so mobile and move around so much there isn't even the larger family for lots of these people that used to be there. Hells bells most of the time the Grandparents are working and don't have much time for the kids! My Dad was raised by a single Mom. His Dad died leaving a woman with two young boys. Life was TOUGH but he had two sets of Grandparents and a dozen Aunts and Uncles. He HAD a family and they had time for him.

 

I'm afraid that chaos is coming to us. The culture that we have is unstable. It was created for and in a world that just doesn't exist anymore. We don't stay close to our families anymore. Both parents work and nobody is there to raise the kids. Kids are influenced by all manner of outside influences that didn't even exist when we were kids.

 

Change is scaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRy!!!

I saw a Facebook picture this week. It read, "Guys who are North Carolina 31 have 2 kids and a mortgage. Guys who are California 31 can't even cook an effing chicken."

 

 

But it didn't say "effing."

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I have a couple of friends that have boomerangs. One sent his boy to college but after three years he dropped out to pursue a career in pizza delivery! Naturally he has to live with the parents until he can move up the career ladder...oops, there IS no advancement in that career choice. He is heading towards his third year and his parents see no relief in sight. I'm an old a$$hole. I'd charge him rent and if he didn't pay it I'd chunk him out in the street. The boy needs a wake up call. He is bright as hell. If he was a retard it would be different but he is intelligent...just totally unmotivated.

 

The other one just has a kid that won't work. You find him a job and he is fired within a week or two. Part of the problem is that his Mom supports him and agrees that people are just picking on him. The Dad is getting about ready to leave. Mom won't work either and the boy is 20. If he leaves they both are going to have to grow up. The Dad is already working about 65 hours a week, He says that those are the best hours of his week. At home it is constant hell raising because he won't buy them everything in the world. like she wants a new car so she can give her's to the boy. They have bought him two cars already and he trashed both of them in less than a year. They are in debt up past the top of their heads and the Mom and boy are mad because he won't buy a new car!!

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Now THAT is a scary thought! Just the thought of either of them holding a firearm gives me the shivers! Which language do you think we should start learning? Russian, Chinese or Arabic. Please don't be Arabic!! I'm old with two bad knees and two metal replacement hips I can't convert to Islam and get on my knees 7 times a day to pray!!!

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