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TheDefaultHuman

Pick and Choose

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S has H T F and you need to choose.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The scenario is an EMP, it may be from attackers, solar flare, or anything, you have no clue where it came from. Your driving your car and it breaks down, and all of your every day carry items are magically gone! Your in a sub-urban environment with mostly houses nearby and panicking people, cars have crashed and people are hurt although rioting and violence haven't started (yet), its approx 9 P.M. and dark out.

 

1. What would you pick to have with you (pick 1)?

A. Your favorite knife with a compass, matches, and sewing string.

 

B. Your favorite pistol fully loaded but no extra ammo (concealable).

 

C. $500 Cash (all in 1-20's)

 

D. A fully functioning Zippo, a pack of cigarettes, and a simple pocket knife with no special features.

 

E. Your favorite fully loaded shotgun, no extra ammo.

 

F. A backpack with 3 MRE'S in it (lets say 5000 calories), and a collapsible water bottle (32 oz full).

 

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2. Where is the first place you would go?

 

 

A. Try to get back home immediately (7 miles away).

 

B. A grocery store (>1mile away did you pick money for the first one, or would you steal?).

 

C. Bug out location, (3 Miles away, and 5 away from your house).

 

D. The police station (>1mile away)

 

E. See if you can help people around town.

 

F. A nearby relatives house who may be in danger (>1m away).

 

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Would you change any choice if you seen someone get shot?

 

Would you steal a car or bike?

 

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So yeah you might never be in this situation because of the timing and lack of supplies and etc... but lets say it does happen.

-

 

 

 

I would pick:

 

1. B. Your favorite pistol fully loaded but no extra ammo (concealable)

 

Explanation- Call me Russian (im not), but a gun just feels right with me, although my second choice would be the food.

 

2. A. Try to get back home immediately (7 miles away).

 

Explanation- Well, I don't personally have a BOL yet, I would consider sticking around town for my chance to get vital supplies, or I might go home and then come back. But I would go home first probably because I have no money and, well, electronics are down.

 

If I seen someone get shot I would stick with the pistol for sure, and definitely go home immediately. I wouldn't steal a car unless it was a spur of the moment everyone's dieing situation.

 

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I would love to hear your choices and explanations, this is a typical SHTF situation that I don't want to find myself in and would love to hear the options you might pick.

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1) B. Knives are one of my favorite thing in existence, but if my goal is to get home in an urban environment, than I am seeing a defensive sidearm may be a bit more useful. And if I get to take my favorite pistol, than I will have 33+ rounds of ammo, and a Surefire light (it is dark out).

 

2) A. I would have to go home first. My goal being to spend as little time there before heading to one of a couple possible BOLs. This is a calculated decision, bugging out is not always my first choice, but due to the nature of the event that you described, I would be leaving.

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im taking the pistol and heading home. then can gather up my family, better supplies and make a determination as to whether its necessary to leave. Also, Josh, if it were an EMP, would your surefire even work?

 

I have discussed the possibility of EMP killing flashlights with a friend who is a Tactical Applications Specialist on the Surefire military team, and the likely hood of the light being fried is very high unless protected. Weaponlights would be safe providing that they are stored in a metal gun cabinet, or better yet a gun safe with air tight seals. A pistol with attached weaponlight that is meant to be carried in a vehicle could potentially be protected by being stored in an underseat gun safe. There are many models on the market. I am not an expert on EMP, but I do have a better than average understanding of the way that they work, as well as a good understanding of the design and function of flashlights, both LED and incandescent.

 

So simply put: Maybe.

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OK, I'll play but as usual, I cheat! (the only fair fight is the one I win so I always fight fair!) Since a Carrington Event is one of my "favorite" scenarios I've actually thought about this. First I'm NEVER in this situation. I've got more stuff than this on me as I write this. That said, I'd go for option A for number 1. With the knife, I get a spear from someone's landscaping. With the matches I can harden the point to where it is very effective. I can make an Atlatl and the thread can be used to secure points or a large rock to a club or spear. That takes care of weapons. The compass helps get home without depending on direct routes. Yes, A - Home is the answer to number 2. That is where my preps are. The other choices lead to crowds or the possibility of compromising your BOL. From a suburban location I can get water from bird baths, fountains or pet dishes. Food shouldn't be an immediate concern for a trip of 7 miles. The knife also gets me rope or rope equivalent from wire around various houses (telephone and TV cable). Wire rope, a nice stick, kindling created from shaving branches and shrubs (knife) and gasoline gathered from stalled cars (knife to puncture gas tank, drained on kindling and bound to stick) makes a nice torch. A container from a car, filled with gas makes a reasonable Molotov cocktail and fabric from the interior makes good fuse and torch material.

I don't plan to get into a fight, but I think I can probably E and E (escape and evade) 7 miles without needing firearms. If necessary, I can even get food using cannibalized autos for the material to make snares. I have a bias that says a solid knife is the single most important survival tool - period. If I don't have a blade, I'll improvise one as quickly as possible but with a blade, a great many things are possible. As I write I have four on me as part of my everyday carry. A gun is a great help, I have one of those on me also, but it isn't as useful as a knife IF you pay attention and have some practice and study on the correct way to E and E.

Remember the MZB who might shoot you in the back to steal your spear will also shoot you in the back to steal your gun. E and E is the order of the day and you want what will BEST help you E and E under the broadest set of circumstances. That would be a knife in my not so humble opinion.

Edited by Capt Bart

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If I'm only 7 miles away from home I would take my pistol and head home straight away and avoid high population density areas. Once home I would have access to all of my gear and would hopefully meet up with all of my family if they are not all there they would make the same choice and I would wait for them. We would then all have our packs at the ready. Secure our home and property and gather all of our supplies and preperations.

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Good answers, and Capt Bart, lol, I envy that you know how make everything from anything lol, I have too learn that sometime.

Yep, a wasted youth studying early American cultures and artifacts plus an interest in the history of the western expansion leads to knowing how to make the primitive tools and live in the mid 1800s. That and some training from my favorite uncle, a little exposure to Montagnard culture in Viet Nam and a basic survivalist yearning to know how to make things without an electric table saw and you wind up with a somewhat eclectic knowledge of primitive weapons, tools and ways of living.

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1) And if I get to take my favorite pistol, than I will have 33+ rounds of ammo

 

How would you have 30 rounds of ammo? Do you use a FN fiveseveN with an extended clip or something?

 

I would go with B and A for mine. Having the gun would help me get back home, where my other BOB and webbing gear is. I wonder what happened to the one that was in my car.....

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How would you have 30 rounds of ammo? Do you use a FN fiveseveN with an extended clip or something?

 

I would go with B and A for mine. Having the gun would help me get back home, where my other BOB and webbing gear is. I wonder what happened to the one that was in my car.....

 

Glock 17 or 19 with the factory 33 round clip. Concealable? No. Awesome? Yes. Now what makes a really good combo, is a Glock and a Keltec SUB 2000. The both use the same magazines, and each cover the areas where the other one fails.

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Josh,

To my knowledge, any type of modern day electronic circuitry would not survive. The LED's themselves are light-emitting diodes and thus would fail. Some flashlights also have circuitry for controlling light output, they also would fail. However, a plain-vanilla flashlight using an incandescent bulb should be OK.

Smokecheck

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Josh,

To my knowledge, any type of modern day electronic circuitry would not survive. The LED's themselves are light-emitting diodes and thus would fail. Some flashlights also have circuitry for controlling light output, they also would fail. However, a plain-vanilla flashlight using an incandescent bulb should be OK.

Smokecheck

I will just copy and paste my reply to backcountrybills similar comment here. I have discussed the possibility of EMP killing flashlights with a friend who is a Tactical Applications Specialist on the Surefire military team, and the likely hood of the light being fried is very high unless protected. Weaponlights would be safe providing that they are stored in a metal gun cabinet, or better yet a gun safe with air tight seals. A pistol with attached weaponlight that is meant to be carried in a vehicle could potentially be protected by being stored in an underseat gun safe. There are many models on the market. I am not an expert on EMP, but I do have a better than average understanding of the way that they work, as well as a good understanding of the design and function of flashlights, both LED and incandescent.

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I would pick the pistol and head home. Even if there were no emergency scenareo and my car just died on it own, I would want the pistol to walk 7 miles in my town. My Bug out location is a couple of hundred miles from home. So heading home first for the goodie stash is the obvious choice for me.

 

I agree about a blade being the single most important survival tool, but in this scenareo, the violence hasn't started (yet) and it is not really a survival situation per se. If needed, a blade could be improvised from a pice of metal, glass, or whatever. Kinda had to improvise a gun, when you have a gang of punks staring you down. Which is a scenareo that could happen any nigh around here. Again! Has aleady happened once.

 

Rock, Paper, Scissors... Oops, I brought a gun! :-)

Edited by Ready?4What?

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I would take the $500.00 in small bills go one mile to my relatives house, they all have guns & ammo and other supples. Then i would go to the store which was 1 mile away, we will say that its next door to my relatives house. There i can get more supples with the $500.00, need to get all the supples that you can cuz tomorrow the sheepole will clean it out , and since its still dark as hell i will stay the night at the relatives house until morning then borrow there bike and head to the bug out location where all of my gear is, and then to the house to get [RUSTY] my dog. YEA THATS WHAT I WOULD DO.

Edited by marcus

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I worry about the Ultra Inner Urban area during the Day after. 22 or so hours into it with no power and no media communications of any kind. I'm absolutely Positive we'd both get shot. getting outta the inner city would be a war zone.

 

This Game, an hour into the scenario? Sub Urban?. cake walk,

 

1. any pistol? Bushmaster carbon 15 pistol with 30rd clip and Surefire light attachment, hidden underneath my armpit via single point sling. or an MP5 with light, Mac 10, Mac 30, Tech 9, all viable concealable weapons. Dude in lethal Weapon, was carrying a MP5 in his suit... any trench coat hides sawed off's...

 

2. quickly and quietly in the dark, avoid being seen or heard, everyone for themself, well of course if a strangers family was being robbed and shot at, jus for what they were carrying i may get involved. can't be all cold. but head toward 1 mile away relatives, check sitrep with them, and i'm sure as luck would have it, head towards the now 8 mile away house to check on the rest of the family...

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I worry about the Ultra Inner Urban area during the Day after.

Rebel,

Good grief, I worry about the inner urban area the day, week, month BEFORE "the day after"! If I am afoot in certain parts of every city I'm familiar with, TS has very definitely HTF! I've wound up there do to being 'temporarily disoriented' (if you know what state you are in, you are not lost) in places I'm unfamiliar with (like Chicago, trying to get to the airport so I obviously didn't have a firearm). Even with all of your preps with you, it isn't comfortable. That as a given, I agree that up to 36 to 48 hours after the event most folks have hunkered down and aren't out getting into trouble. Once the magnitude of the event gets past the shock, then things will get dicey for quite a while.

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ok i would take a shot gun[usually ppl will leave you alone if they see you packing]

and id head to my bug out location[because i would have already had a constituency plan with my family and they would be there waiting for me]

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MjeanM,

The answer to your question is a definite maybe! EMP effects happen partially because the speed of light is slightly less in wire than in air. (one nano-second is the time it takes electricity to move about 11 inches in wire or about 12 inches in air. This difference cause a current - the longer the wire the higher the current) Depending on orientation and length of leads and the strength of the EMP, a component may or may not experience damaging currents. I suspect anything cmos (and most solid state) is toast. Tubes (light bulbs) and basic components should survive. Batteries and generators it can be a crap shoot. Because of the way I store my spare parts (a medal filing cabinet) my relatively robust parts will survive most EMP events. So yes, you can build a flashlight if you have a power source and the raw parts.

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What you want to do is have them stored in something that qualifies as a Faraday Cage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

The short version of what that is, is a totally enclosed metal cage. This is why cell phones don't get signals in some elevators. Some metal filing cabinets are metal on all sides and works like a Faraday cage. A good way to test it out is to put a cell phone in it and call it, if it gets the signal, it's not a Faraday Cage.

Edited by Delta7
spelling

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MjeanM.

Delta7 is correct. For your kindle, there are electrostatic/Faraday bags that the Kindle can fit inside of. Put in the bag and the bag sealed, the Kindle should be protected from most EMP event. Delta7's phone test is a good one. If the phone rings, the EMP can get it as well. Recognize that the Faraday Cage works by conducting the current around the object. It is possible to get an EMP that is strong enough to simply melt the cage. Of course that requires astronomical events that probably leave EMP as the least of your concerns. The other thing that works is a lead safe. Since it is an insulator the EMP doesn't penetrate. When I had a Pershing unit we kept our backup radios in a lead safe.

Just realize that if you take your Kindle out to upload new books (if you can upload without taking it out, you don't have an effective shield) or read them, then the Kindle is vulnerable while it is out of the bag. Also if you are charging it in the bag (running the charge cord into the bag) then that is a path for the EMP and you are defeating the purpose of the bag. The moral is you can reduce risk but not eliminate it completely.

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