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MommyLiberty5013

Buying FMJ or HPJ in 9mm

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I've done reading up on FMJ versus HPJ in 9mm. But, I'm curious for opinions here. If a person were to purchase more 9mm, would it be wise to go for the HPJ, or is that really "necessary" to do a good job of stopping a person - say a large/tall person in attack mode. Could a FMJ do just as well - or is more about shot placement with FMJ (I know shot placement matters anyway, but is it MORE about placement with FMJ than HPJ?)?

 

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whoa all the questions LMAO  mommy liberty I am posting this for people who may read it you may know most of this already.

 

well there is the question that starts the riot well one of them 45ACP versus 9MM 308 over 223 and this one.

 

First let me start from the premise your wealthy then buy all high quality hollow points of course they are the price of 50 + and you only get 20.

really you need to test them in your weapon some are accurate some will spray a pattern all weapons are different in what they may like.

 

as far as ball ammo or FMJ because we are talking 9MM I opt for a heavier bullet I like the 124 grain personal preference I like Truncated cone if I can get it.

 

if you want the best ammo for the price Speer Gold Dots are it unless it shoots well it really makes no difference, there are other brands.

 

I posted this already but a 9MM is a 38 special +P at best that does not make it good or bad it is what it is,  bemoaning what you have instead of using it to it's potential is a mistake.

 

I knew what you meant but it is HP not HPJ  the J means jacketed (aluminum copper bronze brass  other than lead, hollow points can be lead with no jacket.

 

FMJ full metal jacket

HP hollow point

TC truncated cone (a cone with a flat point)

and the rest of the alphabet is used as well each to make itself unique among the others it is a way to define and request what you want.

Every bullet design has it's merits I just choose the best shooting / most accurate.

 

cutting to the chase HP good ones expend all their energy and have less chance of exiting a body this is a good thing a bullet that leaves is a hazard your responsible for all projectiles that leave your weapon.

Inside a building or on the street  I like glazer safety slugs or any good fragmenting ammo problem most ammo like this is light and that changes point of impact so you have to train with it exclusively to feel confident as with any different ammo IMO.

 

opinions are all over the place some are parroted from other sources and become urban myth like a 45ACP kicks like a mule well I never thought so.

a 25 auto will just piss them off well not really a lot of people have dropped with one shot now would I own one NO would I use it if was all I had YES.

please do not go out and buy a 25 auto----

 

Caliber does not change tactics I like 3 shots crotch center mass and head no matter the angle or a twin double tap 2 center mass and 2 for the noggin' that is not set in stone people may wear stuff that may change my tactics.

none of this means a person is not afraid or concerned but you must win and you can't if not methodical and quick.

 

9MM Speer Gold Dots

Hornady Critical Defense ammo 115 grain is good for areas where people may wear heavy clothing.

Hollow points can plug with material wood bone cloth sheet rock hell you name it and alter the ability for the bullet to expand making it basically a FMJ.

 

lighter bullet faster but less penetration (generally) but has a high shock effect so it offsets it's negative.

heavier more potential energy penetrates deeper but due to it's velocity will probably stay in the body.

I have read a lot of the ballistics and data but they are still not all the story some is psychological some is physical.

22LR has 140 of muzzle energy

9MM has 380  

38 special 270

357 Magnum 500

45ACP 350

So where is the magic ? there is not any, most times it is bullet placement accidentally or by accuracy or the victims reaction to being hit

a drugged person may not notice unless his brain pan is dented adrenalin mental defects or a hit that for any reason does not effect the nervous system may not do the job, this is where double tap or center line tactics increase knock down.

that is not absolute an incident in Houston a man was shot 17 times ran like a deer and he did not die just got tired from blood loss,  he was doped up.

 

A firearm is a tool it is not a replacement for good judgment or common sense they do not come with a cape and mask.

Be cautious be ready and avoid a fight if possible, if not you place yourself in a bad situation.

It does not matter the caliber it is putting lead on target faster than your opponent and avoiding getting dotted yourself.

People do win the fight and die anyway.

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Well I always look at the sellers rating to me if they do not have at least 99.8 and that is with a fair amount of sales.

the other point is to look at the feedback I do not buy from anyone that has communications problems or rabid replies to negative feedback,

 

I have purchased items from there and was pleased with what I got but I did do diligence and checked the sellers feedback / rating first before i bid.

 

it is the place for finding things not on the market and it sets the price for better or worse.

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Mommy,

In a past law enforcement career, I carried a 9mm pistol and NEVER "felt" under-gunned or under-calibered. Having responded to dozens and dozens (more than that actually-lost count) of shootings, as the first responder on the scene, I never saw nor heard from any of those immediately surviving the "gunfight" that they were "ONLY shot/hit with _____ caliber of round". Never happened.

First rule of a gunfight is ALWAYS have a gun.

As to ammunition, for self-defense, always use a JHP(jacketed hollow point) for BOTH penetration AND expansion of the round inside the soft-tissue target. In reality, you are not going to "notice" muzzle flash", recoil, or any of the other "range issues" found while shooting in a target range environment.

Don't worry about WHICH brand of JHP to use in 9mm, the following work well and have for years:

Federal 9mm 9BP(code on box) 115 grain JHP

Federal 9mm 124 grain JHP HST standard velocity OR in 9mm+P

Winchester 115 grain JHP

Winchester 115 grain Silvertip (EXACT same loading as above, EXCEPT for different colored jacket-MARKETING gimmick to jack up the price)

Speer Gold Dot 124 grain OR 115 grain JHP, in standard velocity OR +P loads

Full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds are great for practice, and  budgets you should always have several boxes on hand just in case, as well as boxes of JHP rounds, amount of rounds depends entirely upon YOUR family's budget, not internet "ex-spurts".

Gunbroker.com is a good SHOPPING resource, realistically, depending upon WHERE you live in the Republic, you can find decent prices at your LGS(local gun shop) or big box sporting goods retailer.

If you wish, PM me and I can send you a list of reputable retailers IN your regional area. The listed price at your LGS, may or may NOT be "the real price".

CASH always talks especially in this economy. don't get too spun up on brands of pistols, BEFORE you go out and test drive models you have handled IN the LGS, to see HOW they feel and fit in YOUR hands. That is THE most critical perspective for purchasing YOUR hand gun. Your significant other has DIFFERENT hands than you do, so they need to see what fits THEIR hands. A happy medium is often NOT possible(just an FYI) and when either one of you needs that hand gun, the other one may have it.

Better to budget one for each of you, then to ONLY acquire ONE.  There are hundreds of models to choose from.

What will work for me OR Snake, probably won't work for you.

Ask around some of your trusted friends to see who is "shooter" and go out and fire some of THEIR hand guns for a test drive as well. They would love to share. If you were in our area we would gladly take you along to introduce you.

For the record, at present in our area, far more females than males are "interested" in firearms for family/eslf protection! Interesting demographic.

Feel free to ask questions as needed. We don't want to see you get shafted as a "newbie"!! (financially or with a crap piece of equipment)

Also, (almost forgot) when shopping online for ammo: www.gunbot.net  has EXCELLENT real time pricing that can help you make some local determinations. I prefer now to acquire my ammo locally as needs dictate.Greater privacy and we only pay CASH for anything firearms related.

Hope this helps. No fear!

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Mommy,

In a past law enforcement career, I carried a 9mm pistol and NEVER "felt" under-gunned or under-calibered. Having responded to dozens and dozens (more than that actually-lost count) of shootings, as the first responder on the scene, I never saw nor heard from any of those immediately surviving the "gunfight" that they were "ONLY shot/hit with _____ caliber of round". Never happened.

First rule of a gunfight is ALWAYS have a gun.

As to ammunition, for self-defense, always use a JHP(jacketed hollow point) for BOTH penetration AND expansion of the round inside the soft-tissue target. In reality, you are not going to "notice" muzzle flash", recoil, or any of the other "range issues" found while shooting in a target range environment.

Don't worry about WHICH brand of JHP to use in 9mm, the following work well and have for years:

Federal 9mm 9BP(code on box) 115 grain JHP

Federal 9mm 124 grain JHP HST standard velocity OR in 9mm+P

Winchester 115 grain JHP

Winchester 115 grain Silvertip (EXACT same loading as above, EXCEPT for different colored jacket-MARKETING gimmick to jack up the price)

Speer Gold Dot 124 grain OR 115 grain JHP, in standard velocity OR +P loads

Full metal jacket (FMJ) rounds are great for practice, and  budgets you should always have several boxes on hand just in case, as well as boxes of JHP rounds, amount of rounds depends entirely upon YOUR family's budget, not internet "ex-spurts".

Gunbroker.com is a good SHOPPING resource, realistically, depending upon WHERE you live in the Republic, you can find decent prices at your LGS(local gun shop) or big box sporting goods retailer.

If you wish, PM me and I can send you a list of reputable retailers IN your regional area. The listed price at your LGS, may or may NOT be "the real price".

CASH always talks especially in this economy. don't get too spun up on brands of pistols, BEFORE you go out and test drive models you have handled IN the LGS, to see HOW they feel and fit in YOUR hands. That is THE most critical perspective for purchasing YOUR hand gun. Your significant other has DIFFERENT hands than you do, so they need to see what fits THEIR hands. A happy medium is often NOT possible(just an FYI) and when either one of you needs that hand gun, the other one may have it.

Better to budget one for each of you, then to ONLY acquire ONE.  There are hundreds of models to choose from.

What will work for me OR Snake, probably won't work for you.

Ask around some of your trusted friends to see who is "shooter" and go out and fire some of THEIR hand guns for a test drive as well. They would love to share. If you were in our area we would gladly take you along to introduce you.

For the record, at present in our area, far more females than males are "interested" in firearms for family/eslf protection! Interesting demographic.

Feel free to ask questions as needed. We don't want to see you get shafted as a "newbie"!! (financially or with a crap piece of equipment)

Also, (almost forgot) when shopping online for ammo: www.gunbot.net  has EXCELLENT real time pricing that can help you make some local determinations. I prefer now to acquire my ammo locally as needs dictate.Greater privacy and we only pay CASH for anything firearms related.

Hope this helps. No fear!

Really awesome feedback. Thank you. We have had our 9mm pistol for a few years- I'd love to get a 2nd. We have a lot of ammo for it, but I want to beef it up and am now taking the type of ammo I buy a lot more seriously now that I have done a lot more learning on the topic. This is a very, easy to grasp and straight-forward response and I really appreciate it. P.S. We are very far away from your area, but I appreciate the offer.

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back in the day being a wild child I always liked Hirtenberger 9MM ammo Glaser and Speer I used for different reasons

 

TPSnodgrass said it best about not feeling undergunned.

 

listening to much crosstalk where one caliber is better than another is usually based in legend I only look at availability for the long term. 

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Thanks. So I feel pretty good about what type of 9mm to buy. Now, I need help determining what is a good price to pay per round?

 

For example, if I found 250 count, of Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +p for $155 (so $0.62 per round), is that a fair deal? Or, is that pretty standard? Or, is it inflated?

 

When dealing with per round prices, what's good deal on HP and/ or +p?

 

What's a good deal on basic, decent brand 115gr FMJ?

 

I'm trying to now learn about ammo shopping/deals. I'm good at shopping when I know what to look for!!!

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Thanks. So I feel pretty good about what type of 9mm to buy. Now, I need help determining what is a good price to pay per round?

 

For example, if I found 250 count, of Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +p for $155 (so $0.62 per round), is that a fair deal? Or, is that pretty standard? Or, is it inflated?

 

When dealing with per round prices, what's good deal on HP and/ or +p?

 

What's a good deal on basic, decent brand 115gr FMJ?

 

I'm trying to now learn about ammo shopping/deals. I'm good at shopping when I know what to look for!!!

well I did a little looking online and 250 count, of Speer Gold Dot 124gr 9mm is going for 30$ for 50 rounds x 5(250) = 150$

the only one that was selling 250 round boxes went for 171$ another place was selling 20 round boxes at 1.12$ per round...

i'd say your in the ball park at 155$ or .62 cents per round

 

disclaimer: I've never bought 9mm before

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Mommy,

OK, NOT trying to pry at all, but your "price per round" will depend on IF, you buy locally or order it online. Live live to it's fullest, buy online if at all possible It's a WHOLE LOT less expensive.

So hit up gunbot.net and start shopping. Some of the online folks there are stellar, ones I have personally purchased from and reccomend, (NOT involved other than a customer) are www.sgammo.com, LOVE those folks, mom and pop online retailer and GOOD people, honest as well. Will not screw you on the price.

I also have purchased from ammoman.com shipping IS included in his prices, but they are slightly higher. Case lots(1000 rounds) give you a price break with all retailers online.

Oh, Hornady's HAP hollow points DO NOT EXPAND, as they are for target shooting only. So expect those prices to be really low, but you get NO EXPANSION at all.

Expansion is ALWAYS your family's friend!

I'll check gunbot.net today and see what I think "looks good". Let me know some of the retail chains in your area, IF, your family OPSEC will allow it. Some will stink, some won't.

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UpdateForMommy on Pricing:

 

Mom,

Just checked on gunbot.net   Federal 115 grain JHP is available for UNDER .$40 cents per round. Stellar price

Also, Federal 15 grain JHP+P+ round, a high performance superb round(we have two cases of it and have ordered one more THAT"S how much we like it) is available in case lots (1000 rounds) for about $.32 per round, however, you are buying 1000 rounds, ao maybe you can find another family and split the case to make it more financially viable? Still an excellent investment.

Also look at the Fiocchi JHP, the Winchester 115 grain JHP listed both are screaming prices as well as of this afternoon 08/31/2015

You will be well served with any of those choices.

Hope this helps, NO prisoners of fear!

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Was online ordering for ME, today, Moms, and saw that Able ammo, has 115 grain JHP (good stuff) for .40 per round, although MY personal preference is STILL Federal 115 grain JHP +P+, I have personally witnessed it's effectiveness in multiple situations in a past career. Shoots WELL through auto glass and into "targets" IN vehicles too.(trust me)

Remember, whatever your "brand" of pistol is for hearth and home, you CAN mitigate felt recoil, by swapping out the factory recoil spring by going to (www.gunsprings.com) Wolff gunsprings and order a heavier weight in the spring, which DOES make it a tad more difficult to rack a round into the chamber,. You can get used to it, with proper training though.(piece of cake)

Also, get your self a "Limb Saver" brand "grip" recoil reduction device. It slides right onto your grip. Under $20.00 too. Both of those REALLY lower the felt recoil, and when You get "older" or mroe "seasoned", like Me and (even worse, like SNAKE!) you will appreciate those tender mercies.

Oh, and when the budget allows, get yourself Extra magazines, you will want/need them.(Unfortunately)

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Hey I still rack the slide on the hip pocket of my jeans or off my belt one handed slide rack other drills and trick sh*t just for old time sake.

 

I do not think it matters overly what price you pay now I think it will  only get more expensive in future.

Back when ammo was cheap I told people to get those battle packs of 308 nobody listened and now they are 3 times the price and out of stock.

It can become hard to get again if we get back in the sand as gov contracts have to be filled first and what is on the shelf will only increase as to its availability.

As far as I know now is always better than never.

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Was online ordering for ME, today, Moms, and saw that Able ammo, has 115 grain JHP (good stuff) for .40 per round,

 

I was sort of surprised when I saw you mention Able Ammo. Able Ammo is just sort of down the road for me. They are and OLD family based company that started off as Able Glass. They liked to hunt and shoot and so did as I did at one time and got an FFL. At first they were basically like I was. You bought a shotgun news, picked a gun and for a very reasonable fee plus the shipping they would order it for you. When you do it this way you tend to acquire a lot of guns as "Trade Ins" and that is where your money is at first. They grew real slowly and Able Ammo was basically a little room not much bigger than a walk in closet off the show room of Able Glass. Now they have a VERY nice outdoor and indoor range and a very large gun business that is mostly via Mail order and online. These are good people.

 

Huntsville Texas is a small town. They claim it is 30,000 people but that includes 10,000+ inmates in the many prisons we have here AND at least some of the students that are going to college here. Sam Houston State University has something like 17,000+ students and after their freshman years they move into apartments and houses. Inmates and Students don't make for a normal economy. We have LOTS of fast food places but then our mall went mostly broke. Inmates and students just don't spend much at places like that or on home improvement and such.

 

Anyway we are an extremely odd sort of place. The 10,000 inmates need about 10,000 guards to work them and guard them around the clock. Then there are a bunch more that do other things in the prisons...My wife is a Dental Hygienist and worked in the prison system for 25 years. Needless to say most of these people are very gun friendly. The true natives are like any other bunch of East Texas Country folk and are also very gun friendly. The Medusa Revolver was made here. Now that gun was a survivalists treasure. It shot 25 different types of Ammo. Basically it would handle ANY of the many .38, .380. 357, and 9mm ammos. Very cool weapon that was based on a Smith and Wesson K frame revolver.

 

Then you have the University...Naturally the professors and such are nearly all bleeding heart liberals. They don't like us and we don't like them very much either. Both the prisons and the University are state run agencies. Like daylight and dark with no common ground.

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With the 9mm you are not going to have a lot of one shot “knock down” power. In part that is because the bullet is mostly subsonic and so creates very little hydro-shock. It is mostly like a 38 special in this. I think that you need every little bit of help that you can get if you are shooting a 9mm so I vote for JHP ammo for at home, concealed carry or defense use. A 9mm is bad about drilling a hole through things and this isn't often a good thing. A 9mm that goes straight through and on has a lot less true stopping power than a hollow point 38 special even though it has slightly superior ballistics.

 

Many years ago I did some extensive testing on various handgun ammos. I had access to a junk yard and could go there and shoot up cars to my hearts content. There were also barrels of oil and gallon buckets of grease all over the place. We tested 45 ACP, 45 colt, 44 mag, 44 special, 41 mag, 357 mag, 38 special, 38 long colt, 9mm auto, 380, 25 auto and 22 LR.

 

With ammo moving below the speed of sound you would poke a hole into or maybe through a gallon of grease. With the mag rounds over the speed of sound the can exploded!! The square cans usually split wide open in the back where the round paint can types usually blew the lid off and the grease went all over the place.

 

The difference was most apparent with the 45 ACP versus the 357 mag and 9mmFMJ. The 45 ACP usually only dented the back. The 9mmFMJ drilled a hole all the way through then the 357 exploded it.

 

To tell you the truth there isn't as much advantage in the 45 auto JHP over the FMJ. The 45 is already a big hole and doesn't over penetrate near as bad. The 9mm JHP made a much better impression. Where the FMJs drilled a hole, the JHP bullets tended to knock the buckets over. The 45 knocked them over with any ammo we tried.

 

When we started shooting car bodies I was amazed by what we found. We were shooting at late 60s- early 70s full sized sedans. Today I call them Battle Cruisers! If you are young think Limo! The 45 would shoot through the doors and nail the driver. Since we didn't have dummies the bullets lodged in the far side door. The 45 FMJ would go into the cabin. The hollow points didn't! The 357JHP, SWC made it into the cabin but was just under the upholstery on the other side. The 9mm JHP made it into the cabin but mostly bounced back out when it hit the other side door. The FREAKING JHP 9mm always went through both doors and would enter another car if we sat them side by side. NEVER hide behind a car is they are shooting 9mm FMJ ammo. Get up and behind the motor or you are going to get shot!!

 

The 9mm FMJ is about as close to armor piercing as you can legally have. I even tried some surplus ammo that was intended for machine guns. It is usually +P++ and not good now days for alloy framed automatics or these new polymer framed guns. They also seem to have a harder primer. A couple of the guns didn't like t hem at all and you hit a lot of “duds”. I loaded these into my 357/9mm blackhawk and everyone of them fired so I guess the hammer fall was too light on some of the autos. The Browning Hi-Power had no problems with them.

 

Summing it up... Always at least double tap with a 9mm and be ready to move up to the head if they are still coming. Body armor DOES stop a 9mm and it doesn't hurt near as much as a 45 or 357mag. The JHP will do a far better job of transferring its energy into the target than the FMJ. I hooked my Daughter up with a 9mm and I told her to carry a JHP in the gun but it might be nice to have a spare mag of FMJ for back up in case someone was hiding behind something. She carries one mag in the gun and two mags back-up. One is more JHP and one is FMJ.

 

I was so impressed with the performance of the 9mm FMJ for poor mans armor piercing that I picked up a case of a thousand rounds of US military 357 mag FMJs Those bad boys poke a hole in nearly anything! I guess that they had it for the old MPs when they were carrying revolvers. The case is air tight and the ammo is in 10 air tight bags that look a little like MREs with a plastic handle on top and hold a 100 rounds each.

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