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silverwolf55

Bug-out ammo question

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Wow you guys are stronger than me. I carry around 1000 rds of 9mm in an ammo can to the range in my Alice pack(it's just easier to grab a can) along with all my guns and I'm done, that's 45 pounds or so I think.

 

Right now, my semi official walk-out plan is maybe 150 rds of 9mm and 150 .22 rds. One .22 auto and a .22 pocket revolver, and a 9mm pistol. If I could carry a rifle openly without unwanted attention(doubt it) I'd grab a box of .22 and my Marlin 795, the lightest .22 rifle I own.

 

If I carried an AK and ammo I wouldn't be able to carry food. That stuff weighs a ton.

 

I don't really think this would happen, but you never know, so it's good to think about.

 

I could conceivably even drop the 9mm and just roll with the .22. Even 50 rounds of that stuff adds a lot of weight, much less 150. I'm a better shot with the .22 anyhow. It's quieter, and I'm not looking to fight anybody anyhow.

 

If I thought I'd have to shoot, I'd grab the Mac 11 with a sling and the 32rd mags. It has a red dot which makes sighting in a target fast. Plus fast reloads, reliability, suppressive fire capability.

 

It's no AK, but the thought of humping that thing with mags and ammo....::shiver::

 

If I drive someplace, it's all coming with, thousands of rounds for everything, too.

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Socalocalypse,

 

As I stated before (and you so eloquently backed up) ammo is HEAVY. Good luck humping all that for any extended length of time. Unless you have practiced carrying all that weight and are well conditioned, I think people will quickly be making a decision on what to loose from their packs.

 

If I am leaving on foot, then where I'm going will have a resupply for me. I'm not going in to a fire fight along the way. No way, no how. I will be more interested in avoidance.

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Socalocalypse,

 

As I stated before (and you so eloquently backed up) ammo is HEAVY. Good luck humping all that for any extended length of time. Unless you have practiced carrying all that weight and are well conditioned, I think people will quickly be making a decision on what to loose from their packs.

 

If I am leaving on foot, then where I'm going will have a resupply for me. I'm not going in to a fire fight along the way. No way, no how. I will be more interested in avoidance.

 

That's nice, if you have the luxury of a stocked BOL, however I myself dont, so humping it is unavoidable. My plan for now is to bug out to rural areas, find a vacant home off the beaten path, and move in. Then if the situation allows, go back for everything I couldnt carry the first time.

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Talk to a sales person at a gun shop. Several arms manufacturers make both pistol and carbine that take the same ammo and uses interchangable magazines. This simplifies the "what ammo to carry" question.

 

Agreed. A .40 pistol/carbine combo doesn't give much away in terms of capability and it simplifies the carry a great deal.

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For me I have to assess at the time of the event if I have somewhere I am bugging out too based on the situation as there are situations where your hide could be destoyed or unaccessible for a list of reasons would determine how much for me if I have to GOOD and I know my hide is gone and so is my BOV and all thats left is my caches I will pack heavy on the ammo if the BOV exist the bag will have a load close to Capt. Barts the same holds true for my hide being a safe and secure locale. There is a lot of variables to take into acct. at the time of the event and type of event that is going to dictate you needs that is the tricky part about prepping I know I am going to step on toes here but oh well. An educated person plans as best as possible around the worst probable series of events and adds 30% onto it you can always step down use less or not use in an event, if you have it, however you can not step up or get it in the middle of the event. That is why you get the biggest cover most of the spectrum gear first and plan for riots and urban warfare if you do not end up needing it great but if you do and do not have it your FUBAR'd (F*!$ Up Byond All Repair)and what good was all your foresight and planning because you are still in the same situation as the mindless follower masses that did not plan at all, that is it plain and simple. Another issue I have noticed is a lot of people on this forum have very well laid out and highly detailed plans and ideas before they have any solid intel, any combat leader will tell you a good rough plan beats a highly thought out and detailed plan any day. The reason is simple S*%# goes wrong and when it does detailed plans go to crap in seconds and become unworkable and untenable, while a rough plan can be adapted on the fly. RULE # 1 Keep It Simple Stupid. Rule #2 first learn rule #1. Rule #3 Murphy is waiting for you and he will catch up to you plan around him not for him. Rule #5 Murphy"s Cousin Larry says Old Murph is a F!*%ing Optimist. So go ahead and believe In a SHTF event or worse that humanity will not turn into roving bands of barbarians willing to slug it out rape murder and steal, our History shows otherwise (I enter into evidence the dark ages, spanish inquisition, french revolt, Red Oct. ect ) or that your so good that you will always be able to avoid them so you won't ever go toe to toe or need to get ruthles and bloody to protect you and yours and right now I will call BS and tell you that you shouldn't waste your time, money or thought on any of this. Because your hoplessly clueless. Big brother has been planning for an unspecified event also and he is willing to kill to protect those assets that will never benefit you or your neighbor and you don't think it will come down to kill or be killed. Humans do vile things for a lot less than survival. Sorry I am tying together a few threads here because they intersect at this point

Edited by warrior7r

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Agreed. A .40 pistol/carbine combo doesn't give much away in terms of capability and it simplifies the carry a great deal.

 

Just picked up Circut Judge. I went the other way...one weapon that only weighs 5 1/2 lbs. .45/.410. Versatile.

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Just picked up Circut Judge. I went the other way...one weapon that only weighs 5 1/2 lbs. .45/.410. Versatile.

Let us know how you like it. I've looked at them as well. If you decide on a pistol, then the Judge matches the Circuit Judge and you have both a .45 and a .410 rifle and pistol.

 

Is the Circuit Judge rifled or smooth bore. I think they come either way but I'm not sure. Just curious as to what you have.

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Just picked up Circut Judge. I went the other way...one weapon that only weighs 5 1/2 lbs. .45/.410. Versatile.

 

Mike. The Judge is an excellent weapon (my wife carries one in her purse), however the problem comes when the target is a ways out. As Capt Bart pointed out, "a .40 pistol/carbine combo doesn't give much away in terms of capability...." With such a combo one has the versitility of a pistol at close range, followed by a quick change to the longer-range effectiveness of a carbine (the combo's that I am familiar with have the ability to use the interchangable magazines). A 15 round magazine on a carbine provides a tremendious increase in one's effective shooting range.

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Capt. Bart: I get to pick it up today. (Delayed instant check at a show as usual...B.S.) It comes with a rifled and smooth SG chokes that are interchangeable. Looking forward to heading to my buddy's farm to test it's ranges given my own limitations as a shooter.

 

LG: Agreed about the Judge rev. A great SD/snake gun but lacks range. I'm hopeful that the .45 w/ the rifled choke will be decent at 100 yds. for LRange SD/larger game. After reading all the great feedback here, esp from Capt Bart, I decided against a long range/large cal and I figure the .410 w/ birdshot would be good for harvesting small game when necessary.

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Reality BITES

consider and replace any with equal components and price

will only cost more or not be as effective or have value if TSHTF fails to

occur.

 

Option 1

Ruger 10/22 = 5 .25 pounds $300 dollars

5 extra mags + 2-25 rnd $125 Dollars

Ruger 22/45 = 2.0 pounds $300 dollars

5 extra mags = 1.5 pounds loaded $ 75 dollars

weighting in at .91 pounds per 100 pack the CCI 40 grain copper plated HV @ 1235 FPS 10 = 9.1 pounds

$7 per hundred about for 1K $ 75 dollars

weight of holster sling belt and mag pouches cleaning kit 5 pounds $ 75

For 50 rounds loaded + mags pistol rifle and 100 rounds loaded 5 10 rnd and 2 25 rnd mags

total weight about 25.25 pounds

Total price for all the above $950 dollars

 

 

Option 2

Glock = 1.6 pounds = $400 dollars trying to be nice and conservative here

5 magazines 1 pound with mag pouch/s $150 dollars

for arguments sake 10 rounds to the mag add 1.64 pounds

9MM = 1.64 pounds per 50 rounds $12 dollars 500 rounds = 16.40 pounds $120 dollars

hi point 9MM carbine 6.25 pounds $ 300 dollars

5 extra mags 1.25 pounds add 1.64 pounds loaded $100 dollars

about 30 pounds and that's being conservative

with sling and web gear $ 75 dollars

$1100 dollars total

 

 

Option 3

Glock = 1.6 pounds = $400 dollars trying to be nice and conservative here

5 magazines 1 pound with mag pouch/s $150 dollars

for arguments sake 10 rounds to the mag add 1.64 pounds to load 5 mags

9MM = 1.64 pounds per 50 rounds $12 dollars 500 rounds = 16.40 pounds $120 dollars

19.6 pounds

AR platform rifle 5.5 to 8.5 pounds no optics added $1,000 dollars

5 magazines $75 dollars 1.5 pounds

500 rounds = 15 pounds at $5.99 per 20 rnds $150 dollars

cleaning kit sling and acc $50 dollars 1.5 pounds

21.5 pounds

total cost $ 1,915 dollars 40.6 pounds 500 rounds pistol and rifle

 

 

 

Option 4

Springfield M1A = 8.8 pounds no optics =1,600 dollars

5 extra magazines= 2.25 pounds let be nice here $150 dollars 20 rounders

.308 or 7.62x51 Nato lets be nice here too $12 dollars for 20 or 200 rnd battle pack $95 dollars

I do not know why it perplexes me but 300 rounds has been bantered around $150 for the cheap sh*t

and 1.3 pounds for 20 rounds 6.5 pounds per hundred 19.5 pounds for 300

30.52 pounds and no web gear yet $75 dollars

5 pounds for web gear now we got 35.52 pounds WAHOO and no pistol

since Ya'll are so BIG and Strong

colt 5" 45 ACP 2.44 pounds empty and $700 dollars for a beater

7 extra mags 1.2 pounds trying to make a box of shells here and cheap mags 10 dollars $70 dollars

45 ACP ammo 50 rnds 15 dollars and 2.80 pounds per 50 well I will be nice here too I'll only make you

carry 2 boxes 5.6 pounds $25 for the real cheap sh*t

for a total of 9.2 pounds

For a total of 44.50 pound approximate WOW and no food and only 400 rounds of ammo and bulk

and you only paid 2,000 dollars and NO OPTICS or mounts you big strong man you!

 

Now all you need is a Indian sex stone {a fu@king rock} to tie around your neck and jump in the lake.

 

 

 

ADD ON weight and cost OPTION OH CRAP!

now add to any of these an 870 Remington 12gauge pump at 7 pounds $375 dollars

25 rounds of any = 3.5 pounds now we would not want you to feel naked so 75 rounds =10.5 pounds

3 boxes of shells the cheap stuff 50 dollars

with a scabbard, sling and bandoleer 2 pounds $50 dollars

19.5 pounds

and a total of 475 dollars conservatively and only 75 shots

 

NOW MF's but which ever you decide and your BOB, sprint 25 yards bob and weave now zigzag pattern

now dive and roll up and acquire your target and fire LMAO

call 911 and hope they get there before you die from a heart attack

or try this with a BOO BOO like a foot blister LMAO

 

Been in THE BUSINESS I know I do not guess logistics, distance and time water and rations

and ammo and bulk play only part your strength state of mind and knowing you have a backup plan

and backup???? who's got your back? that well spring of knowledge wild edibles how to find water

trapping snaring trapping shelter recon tracking E&E and so many more talents & skill and take time

to hone and even in all that the best sometimes do not make it.

 

OK boys and girls I have dealt the cards straight if reality has not grabbed you by the short hairs

your too inflexible to learn.

do I like a 22 for my only choice NO

like commonality of caliber YES can hide or ditch one and continue

more ammo less weight YES

bullet weight verses bullet drop and foot pounds of energy FACTORED IN. another post on

caliber / energy / range / bullet drop

effective range 250 yards w/ optics 125yards iron sights pistol 100 yards effective range.

 

option 2 better but bullet drop / energy / range are not sufficient to consider 1/2 the load of ammo

and increased weight of option 1.

 

Option 3

OK but heavy if you loose or have to cache a weapon leaves you down 50% in ammo

more loss in energy and range and no commonality of ammo.

 

Option 4 with .308 and 45ACP is the worst starting with only 400 rounds

and 80+ pounds

total gear{with BOB} loss of rifle leaves you only 100 rounds or vice versa 300 and still heavy

 

option 1 is the best in a crappy world with to many unknown variables injuries have not been

considered in any of these threads training a short time a 22 in either hand can be mastered and does

not have so much recoil as to make an injury worse or effect aim.

 

the only way to make option 1 kinda better not really is to adapt a Ruger charger cut barrel to 5"

and customize stock to more like a pistol.

mags would be interchangeable even then it would be unwieldy and not

as fast to get into action and a holster well more like a converted scabbard.

too bad they do make an UZI pistol conversion now that would be interesting.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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figured I would go ahead and add this so all you lamers who will not take the time to search my threads

 

 

Watch this it should convince you that all you have heard is rumor and not facts

 

 

The reason I choose CCI variation between shots in FPS number of miss fires per 1,000 and the

increased velocity and bullet weight assures function, less failures to feed and energy at distance.

compare energy at 100 yards and consider frontal diameter lessens penetration with loss of velocity.

 

.22 CCI high velocity long rifle 100 rounds per box

 

•40 grain gilded lead round nose at 1235 ft/sec.

•Clean burning propellants keep actions cleaner.

•Sure-fire CCI priming.

 

Muzzle velocity: 1235 fps. increase by 10 to 15% out of a rifle

Velocity at 50 yards: 1092 fps.

Velocity at 100 yards: 998 fps.

Muzzle energy: 135 ft/lbs.

Energy at 50 yards: 106 ft/lbs.

Energy at 100 yards: 88 ft/lbs.

 

 

.32 Auto Blazer Total Metal Jacket 71 Grain 900 fps 50 Round Box

 

Muzzle velocity: 900 fps

Velocity at 50 yards: 841 fps

Velocity at 100 yards: 791 fps

Muzzle energy: 128 ft/lbs

Energy at 50 yards: 112 ft/lbs

Energy at 100 yards: 99 ft/lbs

Uses: Plinking, Target, Training

 

 

 

.380 ACP Blazer Centerfire Handgun Cartridge 95 Grain Total

Metal Jacket Round Nose Bullet 945 fps 50 Round Box

 

Muzzle velocity: 945 fps

Velocity at 50 yards: 888 fps

Velocity at 100 yards: 839 fps

Muzzle energy: 188 ft/lbs

Energy at 50 yards: 166 ft/lbs

Energy at 100 yards: 149 ft/lbs

 

 

.38 Special, Remington UMC, 130 Grain Full Metal Jacket Bullet 50 Round Box.

 

Muzzle velocity: 790 fps.

Velocity at 50 yards: 766 fps.

Muzzle energy: 173 ft/lbs.

Energy at 50 yards: 163 ft/lbs.

 

9mm Luger 115 FMJ

muzzle velocity 1145 energy 335 ft/lbs

50 yard velocity 1046 energy 279 ft/lbs

100 yard velocity 975 energy 243 ft/lbs

 

5.56 Nato 55 grain bullet

muzzle 3,240 fps feet per second

500 yard velocity 1,270 energy 221 ft/lbs

 

maybe numbers speak louder than words ballistic coefficient sectional density etc.

and cost per shot depth of penetration about 10.5 inches in ballistics gel

within 1 to 3.5 inches of these other calibers.

for CCI high velocity 40 grain round nose 1235 feet per second

now increase the speed out of a rifle

 

Listed below are standard bullet drop rates at 100 yards for rimfire ammo. Drop rate is in inches and are approximate.

22 BB Caps 12

22 CB Caps 9

22 Short 4.0 – 5.0

22 LR, 40 gr Std Vel 4

22 LR, 40 gr HV 3

22 LR, 38 gr HP HV 3

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Capt. Bart: I get to pick it up today. (Delayed instant check at a show as usual...B.S.) It comes with a rifled and smooth SG chokes that are interchangeable. Looking forward to heading to my buddy's farm to test it's ranges given my own limitations as a shooter.

 

LG: Agreed about the Judge rev. A great SD/snake gun but lacks range. I'm hopeful that the .45 w/ the rifled choke will be decent at 100 yds. for LRange SD/larger game. After reading all the great feedback here, esp from Capt Bart, I decided against a long range/large cal and I figure the .410 w/ birdshot would be good for harvesting small game when necessary.

 

Mike,

 

Yesterday my wife got a large doe with her judge (2 3/4 in .410 slug) while hunting in a swamp (here in Michigan the late doe season is open).

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Mike,

 

Yesterday my wife got a large doe with her judge (2 3/4 in .410 slug) while hunting in a swamp (here in Michigan the late doe season is open).

 

That, sir, is a very solid data point. Thank you for sharing. My feel is that the .410 is under rated based on my experience but a data sample of 1 does not a trend make. That and the fact that I have been accused (unjustly so, in my not so humble opinion) of being less than totally objective on some topics (OK, most topics - I am opinionated). This is a solid case of how it works in a given situation.

 

One question, where was the shot placement? A .22 will work if you're good enough to get a head shot. My bias says that the .410 slug will do the job with a shot to the chest cavity. If you'd care to share the range I'd also be interested.

 

I'm not trying to grill your lady, but the parameters help set the effective envelope for the gun. Thank you.

 

Congratulations to your wife for a successful hunt.

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That, sir, is a very solid data point. Thank you for sharing. My feel is that the .410 is under rated based on my experience but a data sample of 1 does not a trend make. That and the fact that I have been accused (unjustly so, in my not so humble opinion) of being less than totally objective on some topics (OK, most topics - I am opinionated). This is a solid case of how it works in a given situation.

 

One question, where was the shot placement? A .22 will work if you're good enough to get a head shot. My bias says that the .410 slug will do the job with a shot to the chest cavity. If you'd care to share the range I'd also be interested.

 

Congratulations to your wife for a successful hunt.

 

It was about 17 yds. She can sit very still for long periods of time (she tells me that I have to become part of the surroundings and only move when the environment moves - I can't do that. My butt gets sore sitting that long). She very patiently waited until the deer moved it front leg forward to expose the vitals.

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LivingGray,

Thank you for sharing. That much patience always amazes me. She is demonstrably correct (she got the deer) but I have trouble setting still for 15 min.

 

Again, sir, my congratulations to your lady for a fine bit of hunting. You are a lucky man to have such a skillful wife.

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One thing that you might want to consider is the military issuance of ammo. Warrior and the other Vets will know that the military (Army anyway) figures a quick fire fight is 210 rounds per person. This is for engagement to break contact, not a sustained firefight. The 210 rounds is classified as the "basic combat load". I personally hope it won't be a combat movement, but with the roving gangs and what not, being ready for a defense is imperative. Even arming the others of your family with a 22 will allow them to put rounds out for cover fire if need be and the weight allows for alot of ammo to be carried.

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Our BOBs, are more like GHB's (get-home-bags). We plan on sitting tight-IF-it's possible at all. Next monkey wrench to throw in, is we/I travel a great deal on business, and mostly chose to drive, so I/we can have the GHBs in the vehicle with us. Not optimum but better than a rock or a stick. Have Makarovs in each bag with extra mags and a container full of Silver Bear JHPs, as backups, should the primary EDCs be rendered hors-de-combat. Again, not optimum, but better than nothing. We like a great deal the newer Ruger 10-22 carbines with the 16 inch barrels, VERY handy for the folding stocks that usually will allow the to fit NICELY into each of our smaller rolling wheel suitcases for inside hotel rooms. What folks cannot see, they don't need to know about We try and take a much more low profile(high intensity) approach than anything else. We LOOK for "trouble" because we want to avoid it, LONG before it comes our way.

When I was younger I didn't mind humping gear while in the military, now, why walk when you can ride? Bike or vehicle, works well for us now. Again, what people can't "see", they can't try and be stupid.

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Like a lot of people I plan on bugging in. It took me a while to get my BOB the way I wanted it, but...I lifted it and found that I might not make it to my car....man that thing is heavy. So I built a smaller bag that can be easily carried and I will use my heavy bag as a bug out vehicle bag.

If I have to leave on foot I have a chest rig that holds 8 ar mags and 10 1911 mags, that and my lighter bag along with my ar-15 and 1911 will still be a load that I can live with. If I use my car I would also bring my SPX and two bandoliers of assorted shotshells.

Too me that is alot of ammo, 310 total rounds to carry plus BOB and weapons and still be fairly quick and mobile.

Edited by biblenguns

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Some good setups. As a Bug In type myself my bag lives in the vehicle and my EDC gets me to the vehicle. One thing to mention; if you are at a place in your preparations where you can do so (some may never get there because of personalities) have all the shooting members of your group on the range at the same time. The key is to work on a drill to ensure not everyone is changing mags together. The call of 'loading' or 'out' or 'jammed' or what ever you choose, needs to clue the other team members that you are no longer in the fight and must be protected. Once you're set, you call out 'ready' or 'firing' or what ever word you decide on that CAN NOT be confused with the word you use for reloading.

It is a little thing, but it keeps everyone safer. Of course if your group resists training at the range together, then you can talk about it but won't be able to practice it.

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I have an Od green reaper llrp pack with 500 rounds of .22 and a Multicam vest where I keep the mags. I totally agree with the guy who said vests are good. They help distribute the weight of my items an it goes me quick acces to necessary itams like flashlight knife pistol......the goods. I'm not trying to advertise but a good place to get reliable gear and great shipping service is opsgear.com. They have a store here in great Mormon Utah and all of the employees are military vets.

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I own a MOLLE tactical vest for me, both boys and my wife (four vests) ready to go. On it, we carry eight 30 Round AR mags, four 9mm or 45 mags and then a bandoler of 25 12 Ga rounds (along with First Aid kit, MOLLE Camel Pack, 3 L's of water and a inverted Ka-Bar w/ Kydex sheeth). I carry the AR with a single point sling, 45 in it's holster and MossBerg 500 in a MOLLE scabbard- All guns are loaded. All of this I am easily able to carry by foot- no problem. These vests are loaded and ready to rock- I keep mine in the truck for a "get home" setup. My get home bag fits no problem too. Yes, no 10/22 but if I'm walking this is as much as I can realistically carry and (I think) it's about 400 rounds. Not bad. . . and able to strap it on and zip it up in less than two minutes.

Edited by EmorySr

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I have an ar15 with 10 mags a marlin xs7 heavy barrel(which weighs a ton) and a shotgun, along with my Remington 552 for the 22 I have 5,000rds stockpiled and for the ar 1000rds some fmj some hollow points some soft points and for the 308 Im trying to focus solely one one ammo either the federal power shok 150 or Hornady sst 150gr Hornday more expense to stock up though of course but its easy to get into my truck and then go to wherever it my be and from there i would take 1000rds of 22 my 10 mags in my vest for the ar and like 100rds for my 308 I am very comfortable with my vest as I work out in it every other night. And for the shotgun maybe 25rds buckshot 20 slugs and like 100rds of bird shot IF i needed to to ditch all my other ammo I would burry it in a place were I could find it again

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