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Outlandermax

When they close the roads...

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[ATTACH=CONFIG]1894[/ATTACH] When they close the roads the best vehicle I can think of is my ATV if speed is necessary. I keep our ATV's fueled and fully equipped minus some last minute add ons including the BOB. Anyone else out there consider an ATV on a serious level? Have any suggestions?

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I agree with you Outlandermax. Although I think all off road vehicles should be given serious consideration. ATVs, snowmobiles, cars and trucks equipped for off-roading. You never know what season it will hit the fan. Once the roads clog up (or are shutdown) the best way to go would be around them. Unless of course you have a monster truck...

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I like a mule they get better millage quieter and looks like a animal through flir systems as long as your not loaded

 

like the quartermaster corps, horses are OK but a mule is more powerful and has more uses and sense.

 

I like 4 wheelers and snow mobiles but a blind man can track them and FLIR can see them miles off not to mention

 

if they close the roads they will close the stations also so no fuel or oil head lights are also bad as anyone

 

can figure it is a vehicle and take out the rider.

 

fuel is about 8 pounds to the gallon so how much to your BO and how much to get around and for how long.

 

for every extra gallon of fuel drop 8 pounds of luggage / food / medical gear / solar panels etc you get nothing

 

for nothing a monster truck gets 5 to 10 miles to a gallon on flat ground your mileage may vary, last I was in the

 

woods them damn trees don't grow where you want them that is why we spent billions on roads and do not count

 

on the weather being in your favor or the terrain slick moss grass and loose gravel or soft sand and your going nowhere.

 

mules of course this are for short distances like 30 miles in a long day a few days to get to your bug out should be OK

 

a good E&E plan needs to be made with alternate routes water and canopy as a consideration.

 

if you have money and speed and distance is important for the individual

 

consider a better alternative weight needs to be considered but a paraglider may be useful here is a link

 

http://aerolight.com/aerointer/products/powered-paragliding/engines-a-parts/simonini/engine?page=shop.browse&category_id=27&TreeId=16

 

there is a similar vehicle that has a small boat with a glider as well as the gyro copters as getting out fast is best

 

figure any road is either a net with a road block or bumper to bumper and getting nowhere if you are near water

 

a motorized / trolling motor solar panel with a canoe or such the point is to get out and fast as well as be able

 

to spot or evade others I like to think outside the box instead of being buried in it.

 

moving at night shadow of the tree line with an animal is quiet but 4 wheelers and snow machines are not and you cannot

 

hear others and there may be many trying the same thing and not have the fuel and need your machine or fuel.

 

I can't say any of my or others ideas are good it all depends on what leads up to the great exodus like the old frog story

 

if you place a frog in warm water he won't notice until it is boiling and it is too late so Detroit is an example

 

many cities are sliding into the pit about a hundred last count.

 

If we are not vigilant the trap may already have us before we can make move coconut trap and

 

the monkey story applies here.

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I have had some excellent animals a couple were psycho most were good company and had great personalities

 

as a companion dogs and a few others are pretty calming and they know when something or someone is around.

 

they need to be well trained and we have to have some understanding and caution of them .

 

As our forefathers did, take breeding pairs of livestock to homestead.

 

from a few guinea pigs or rabbits a few large stock like ox or horses and mules {jennies and jacks}

 

chicks {not grown} and or a pair of proper dogs for your type of hunting / terrain / use

 

Dachshund's, blue healers, border collies just to name a few some research as to hip displaysia health issues etc.

 

as far a trade value hard work heavy lifting, clothing leather and food animals cannot be replaced it took

 

thousands of years for man made materials to become cheap enough to rival natural although they can be

 

better most of us do not have a plant to make them so as our man made materials need to be replaced

 

using the waste not want not views of days gone by of course that is if we have a prolonged downturn

 

if we don't I don't see a downside as it is easy enough to trade or sell animals.

 

by the way guinea pigs taste pretty good and are small and reproduce quickly and eat very little

 

easy to care for very quiet for the increase.

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well I hope not mules with ropes and pulleys as well as a home made till could bust ground for a garden

 

help to raise dirt to dig a well raise timbers for a cabin drag rocks for a chimney line a well make a cistern

 

basement cold house or root cellar.

 

if you have a bit of ingenuity you can make a grain/ stone mill juice sugar cane extract oil from edible seeds

 

In short large animals are first and foremost power and building machines of the old world once you have bred

 

enough culling for best breeding results and then you eat them as it takes almost the same gestation period

 

as humans it takes many years to build a herd horses can live half the span of a human but the need care

 

hoof maintenance trimming cleaning regular grooming and skin care for infections and injuries again

 

you get nothing for nothing but they can increase work by a hundred fold a simple drag and you can move

 

500 pounds of rock till an acre of ground a day 640 foot X 640 foot and drag 1,000 pound logs and hauling

 

collected food from the field if you had to do that with a bag and drag method you would destroy most of your

 

picked corn melons cabbage etc also root crops need to be turned out of the ground so hand digging potatoes

 

or peanuts beets onions turnips etc they would rot in the ground before you could gather them your window

 

is about 2 weeks and weather can ruin a whole season in a few hours.

 

not to mention you need to harvest the stalks and grass for animal feed a typical family garden for 4 persons is

 

about a half acre if your land is good and the weather cooperates.

 

then you need canning jars lids pots pans and other equipment to store for months of lack.

 

people starve only eating meat there are months where no food grains can be found maybe a handful now and again

 

Indian women worked all day every day gathering working hides making clothes and numerous other trades

 

the men hunted for protein defended or captured women of other tribes reduced interbreeding and these would also

 

work with the other women although treated as a last cast citizen.

 

everyone worked every day all day except for a few times of holidays and some bad weather but I would imagine

 

it was a 300 day work year and even then while relaxing they made repairs and made weapons.

 

anyone who thinks the agrarian life style is gong to be easy is in for a rude awakening.

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Well I guess mules it is! However, the common definition of BOV is:

 

A bug out vehicle is a vehicle that will make it possible for you to escape a natural or man-made disaster to a BOL without finding yourself stuck with a useless pile of metal that doesn’t have the ability to go through a shallow stream or for that matter, a crumbled road surface. It should be able to traverse obstacles and be able to go off-road if needed. Preferably it would have 4x4 or more capability. It should be sturdy and reliable in most kind of weather and terrain conditions. It should be simple in design and function, with not a lot of useless gadgets that you don’t need. A short wheelbase and good ground clearance are also highly desirable too. The ability to tow or be towed or winched out is very important also.

 

With that definition in mind… I really thought an ATV or UTV would be the best “vehicle” for the job. My fully loaded OutlanderMax will exceed 70 mph on the road and half that off the road (depending on the terrain). I have crossed terrain in which my ATV was over half submerge in muddy water, climbing the steepest of hills, bushwhacked the thickest of wood, and traversed some pretty heavy snows. As for gas mileage I get an average of 22 mpg. With a six gallon onboard tank and 4 gallon bolt on tank, I have a distance of over 200 miles. If I have to worry about being tracked by someone, they would have to keep up. On the other hand, a thousand pound mule will likely leave one hell of trail to be tracked as well but with no advantage of speed.

 

My whole point of this tread was to say “hey” to the advantages of an ATV as a un-traditional BugOutVehicle that will get me out of a bad situation fast and get me to my BugOutLocation or at least get me out of a situation FAST in which there may be obstacles whether they be natural or governmental.

 

So… what do you think? [ATTACH=CONFIG]1896[/ATTACH]

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I guess if you think about it, where you live would define the best type of BOV for you. I think of a BOV as a mode of transportation that gets you, your family, and your essentials, to a predefined location (BOL) fast, safely, and as stealth like as possible. Most all BOV will have their advantages and disadvantages. No one in Georgia would consider a snowmobile very useful while no one in Arizona would find a boat very beneficial.

 

Where I live in Wisconsin, ATV’s and UTV’s are great year round vehicles because of our 4 season climate. Because of that, I think they would be great in the event the roads are closed due to natural disaster, government, or marauders, with the last two being the most dangerous. If the roads are open… pack the station wagon and head up to your BOL. http://www.survivalcache.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.png

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Outlander, I see you have Can Am ATVs. I've had a Can Am 800 for about three years and have taken that thing into places no other ATV could have gone. I strapped a deer on the front of my Can Am and headed up a steep hill. When I got to the top I had a guy standing there to push my ATV down so I didn't flip. I have plowed snow that was so deep it came over the plow and the front end. But it pushed snow no matter how deep it was.

 

I'll take my Can Am any day of the week.

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Von, both are good points. An animal can break a leg or hurt its foot. Any form of transportation has its strength and its weaknesses. Gas can be solved fairly easily in a real SHTF scenario. But in reality, it comes down to the fact that I own a Can Am and not a mule. Also, I keep a lot of gasoline on hand... enough to get me anywhere in Massachusetts and the gas is easily mounted to the ATV.

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I think that a BOV and an animal that is used in the aftermath of a SHTF situation are entirely different things. Sure, there are some situations where a BOV can be multipurpose (vehicle & plow), but for many of us that is impractical. Where I live, I need five acres to have a mule or a horse - I have two acres. I think most people are in that situation. Also, I cannot imagine packing a mule with my wife and son, BOB’s, water, food (for us and the animal), etc., to travel - as in my situation - 190 miles to my BOL. That would be unreasonable to say least. And if you toss in a zero degree January, it would be downright dangerous. On ATV’s, depending on the situation and the weather, I can do that same journey in a day or so if it’s a combination of road and trail.

 

In my situation, I have three ATV’s that can be packed and ready for travel in less than an hour. This is what I’ve practiced for. If I lose an ATV due to mechanical failure, I still have two to continue the journey. Weather will have little impact on how I get to my BOL. Living in Wisconsin brings on its own set of challenges. I can go from 98 degrees August to 20 degrees below zero in January. I’m not certain how well an animal would hold up to those extremes, let alone my family if they were on foot.

 

It all goes back to a person’s situation: where he lives, what resources he has available, how much money he has, does he have family to worry about and take with, how far a BOL is, etc. As I mentioned earlier, a good BOV in Florida is likely not so good in Montana.

 

What do ya think?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1897[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1898[/ATTACH]

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I want to add a post script...

 

In my defense of ATV's as BOV I don't want to diminish or hammer on what Juzcallmesnake has said; and let me tell you, that man has said A LOT! Actually, after reading his viewpoint it made me do a great deal of thinking. Sometimes we (I) romanticize the idea of SHingTF and forget the real life changes that will happen and the long hard work that will face us all if you want to survive with a full stomach.

 

With that said... I challenge Juzcallmesnake to a race: his mule against my ATV! You name the place. :)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1899[/ATTACH]

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a mule wouldn't be a bad idea and it could probably do 190 miles without a hitch it would just take you longer than an ATV

 

I'm not in any way saying a mule would be a bad idea... but how many people are in a situation (where they live, distance to travel, climate, etc.) that would allow for that? And I don't know about you, but the idea of walking 190 miles in the middle of a Wisconsin January (average zero degrees) or a Wisconsin August (97 degrees today) with a mule, wife, child, BOB's, water & food, weapons, etc. all with the risk of a mule that could be injured half way up and then what?

 

In MY situation, an ATV is best suited for the situation of a 'road being closed' as in the title of this thread. In a SHTF situation time is very much of the essence. Every day that goes by is a day that society becomes more dangerous. I cannot imagine being 100 miles from my BOL without a BOV with the responsibility of my family at hand.

 

If everyone just continues to say "mule" then what is the point of a thread titled "Survival Vehicles"? Maybe it should be called "Survival Mules". I started this thread to get ideas and, also, the good and bad of an ATV. So let's pretend for the moment I don't own a mule and see what ideas we come up with!

 

What say you?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1900[/ATTACH]

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I want to add a post script...

 

In my defense of ATV's as BOV I don't want to diminish or hammer on what Juzcallmesnake has said; and let me tell you, that man has said A LOT! Actually, after reading his viewpoint it made me do a great deal of thinking. Sometimes we (I) romanticize the idea of SHingTF and forget the real life changes that will happen and the long hard work that will face us all if you want to survive with a full stomach.

 

With that said... I challenge Juzcallmesnake to a race: his mule against my ATV! You name the place. :)

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1899[/ATTACH]

 

OK the down hill grand canyon trek to the bottom of the gorge LOL

 

No I do see the points made with BOV's and in many instances they will be a better way but if you are already a person

 

that has animals I would not leave them behind and if you should come across some I would include at least one in my

 

plan.

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I'm not sure about the point of this thread. Are you looking for input or just for people to tell you that an atv is the best off road BOV? Like stated, I think it depends on your location, how far your BOL is, your family size, and SHTF scenarios. You might not laugh about using an animal if the SHTF event is an EMP/CME. Gas availability might be an issue. I saw first hand the gas shortages from Sandy. I do think that ATVs could make a decent BOV. Personally I would rather have a UTV or an SUV or truck with off road capabilities. If you have ATV's and they work for you, go for it. I know a lot of people near me that have them and they are extremely loud. I would think if you are at a point in bugging out when road blocks are in place you might want to use more caution IMO.

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I'm not sure about the point of this thread. Are you looking for input or just for people to tell you that an atv is the best off road BOV?

 

The point of the thread, this is from the opening statement:

 

"When they close the roads the best vehicle I can think of is my ATV if speed is necessary. I keep our ATV's fueled and fully equipped minus some last minute add ons including the BOB. Anyone else out there consider an ATV on a serious level? Have any suggestions?"

 

Under the heading of:

 

"Survival Vehicle: This is the spot to discuss your survival vehicle, BOV (Bug Out Vehicle), Multi-Use vehicle etc. and preps that go into them".

 

When they close the roads was the heading as to suggest the government has found it best to keep us a rest and do not want us to travel. I'm sure we can all come up with situations for that to happen. You suggested that a UTV, SUV, or off-road truck may be better. I own a Jeep Wrangler, a Chevy Silverado, and I used to own a Can-Am Commander (sold to brother because it was a gas guzzler, always got stuck, and couldn't bushwhack very well), and none of those vehicles can do what a good ATV can do in the area of bushwhacking, tight terrain, hills, rivers, mud bogs, and above all else, gas mileage. As for noise, a factory - unmodded - ATV is rather quiet. It is no loader then my Wrangler or Silverado.

 

And while I can see the importance of an animal as mentioned many times in this thread, I don't see how it fits under "Survival Vehicle"? All the threads I see under this heading are related to Gas burning vehicles and not animals. With that said, that is why I'm taken aback by the continuous mention of animals when I was looking for input to an ATV (think to take, do you bring a trailer, etc.). And as for gasoline, I keep a rather large supply on hand (thanks to 9/11) as well as always keeping my fuel tanks topped and never dropping much below 3/4 tank. And you're right, if it were and emp issue, ATV's are pointless but so to would be the closing of the roads.

 

Since I posted this thread I've spent the entire time defending it ;)

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how much room do you have on an ATV for extra fuel?

 

Actually, quite a bit. We have gone on many camping trips off the AVTs and everything had to be carried on them. The longest trip was just over 4 days and we had to live on everything we brought (which was usually too much). Everything gets strapped to the front and the rear as well as enclosed in the rear boxes and the trunk. What we take would be similar to a hiking trip because of weight and size. As for fuel, we both have 4 gallon flat tanks that are mounted to the front and my son has a 1.5 gallon tank.

 

This picture is not of my ATV but that is my setup.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1901[/ATTACH]

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Personally...preparation is the key. Any plan is only as good as the people making it. Test Test Test ... having three vehicles is good...adds a safety factor. I think some one said two is one is none or something to the effect that anything can fail and we should have backups. Don't forget to checkout alternate route(s) to your BOL.....fuel drops etc. You could have to take the long way around to get there. As to trailers ... the hitch is very important if you are off road...military style or a modified ball with swivel will allow for the angles you will encounter using a trailer off road. Do remember to build a maintenance kit for each ATV if they are not all the exact same units. Good luck may we all live to see better days.

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when they close the roads i'll be taking to the water. water puts distance between the chaos/mayhem and allows me to bypass traffic jams/roadblocks. every major city has at least one river or lake nearby and in my humble opinion the water/boats are often overlooked as bug out vehicles.

 

i'd rather have a truck yes, but if that's not an option i'm taking to the rivers. my girlfriend and i have three kayaks, we can haul 700lbs of gear (plus ourselves) and we can easily pull 5mph all day (or night) without a drop of gas or a whisper of sound.

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