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juzcallmesnake

juzcallmesnake's Reloading Thread

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If you own a 30 cal rifle you are in luck sabots are available mostly for the 30 cals like 30 carbine to 300 win mag and short mags

 

loading data can be found on this site as well as sabots and seater for them.

 

These are reminiscent of the old accelerators this turns a mid bore into a hi velocity varmint round and you can shoot for lower cost

 

this is interesting as well as shooting cast bullets cast bullets can be fired from low velocity to almost as fast as jacketed

 

of course you will need to use gas checks with a cas check designed bullet it has a relief on the base where the gas check is seated

 

a LEE sizer die will seat theses no problem as it is being sized & lubed I like the LEE ALOX bullet lube it works well and price for the whole setup

 

bullet mold sizer and gas checks even at todays prices is moderate over buying antiquated technology to size & lube and all you need is a single stage

 

press that you normally use to reload with.

 

Both sabot and cast bullets use similar powders mostly magnum pistol or shotshell type red dot 4227 296 H110 trail boss unique and others

 

Using these powders you're using 1/3 the amount versus jacketed at hypervelocity.

 

Accuracy has been from ok to extreme recoil is reduced and looking back over history bullets of the same weights at similar velocities have

 

taken large game.

 

As far as casting rifle bullets, choose a mold that is heavier than the standard round in 308 I use the 170 grain I am considering getting a 200 grain.

 

I have researched aluminum gas checks and have from second hand information think they are not as effective or accurate as copper.

 

I have no idea why, but the viewpoint of higher velocity is better is not as important as accuracy.

 

Most shots are within 100 yards on game and most professional hunters will tell you unless you're very capable and hunting exotic or in difficulty

 

Terrain keep your shots 200 and under.

 

another nice side effect is reduced noise in some cases the main thing for people short on cash it would be better to have a old 30 cal bolt

 

gun and set up to shoot cast bullets

 

I have found it is very easy to make 8MM or 8 X 57 Mauser from fired 30-06 using 32 cal or 8MM gas checks and a mold 150 to 180 grain

 

And figure 7,000 grains to a pound you can load about 500 cast rifle shells with 1 pound of powder

 

There are a few military rifles and if you stick with the WWII models the bore sizes will be as reported in most manuals.

 

Semi auto rifles are not very good at using cast bullets the gas systems clog up quick and screw up the rifle a few semi  pistols

 

That use a gas system are not good to use cast bullets in either, so check your model and make before you end up taking hours to clean it up.

 

http://www.sabotreloadingpro.com/

 

http://mmpsabots.com/store/mmp-standard-sabots/

 

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?42131-Installing-gas-checks-with-Lee-sizer

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I think that I overlooked a important point on LEE Clasic loader (hand loader kit ) EXCEPT straight wall calibers only bottle neck cases

 

in order for this loader to work you have to have fired the ammo in "THE RIFLE" you are using it to relaod for as this only neck sizes

 

the overall size comes from your chamber of your rifle if you have 2 or more rifles in the same caliber you need to keep the cases

 

seperate as every chamber even of the same caliber will be different to some degree or another NOW can both brass cases work in either rifle?

 

maybe but doubtfull.

 

if you want the best way at the least expensive to make full length sized ammo that will fit in every rifle of the same caliber here is what

 

you should look into

 

this breach lock press is better or find a cast iron press on ebay make sure it takes standard shell holders and standard die threads.

 

The smal C press is not sturdy enough for anythig other than 223 size cases or less 22 hornet etc.

 

 

Breech Lock Hand Press  SKU: 90685

 

Breech Lock Quick Change Bushings one for each die

 

Ultimate Rifle 4-Die Set or the 4 die pistol set as both have factory crimp die

 

RAM PRIME   SKU: 90106

 

CASE CONDTIONING COMBO  SKU: 90950 has cutter / trimmer, primer pocket reamer, and case chamfer tool I have used this to remove

 

military crimp as well as ream inside and outside neck.

 

Case length gauge / holder Caliber specific holder works with trimmer in case conditioning combo above to trim to factory length I would

 

only get this for rifle or magnum pistol maybe?

 

Powder Measure Kit  SKU 90100 these are individual powder scoops with a chart for most all powders.

 

Safety Powder Scale   SKU: 90681

 

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/searchprods.asp    a fantastic priced electronic scale for measuring all you loading needs.

 

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/       at least a double cavity bullet mold for your calibers I think jacketed bullets are only going to get pricey.

 

in pistol tumble lube bullet designs work great cast with wheel weights (#2 lead alloy) and use XLOX lube it is superior easy and

 

resist heat enough to keep leading down or eliminate it if you lube the base well. here is the link for XLOX lubes many thousands of bullets.

 

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

 

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/   lube sizer kit for your caliber, Maybe most LEE molds drop proper size bullets

 

thus can akso seat gas checks but you need one for each calibers proper diameter.

 

personally I would stay focused and get the press and other items and a set of dies and mold for one caliber ( the most important one)

 

then get the next as if you don't your not going to have what you need to load one caliber.

 

If your like most of us money is a concern so consider your most importan arm not from a power standpoint but usefullness overall

 

for your area, here I could live with a 357 rifle as most shots are less than 75 yards or closer and a scope would insure precision shots.

 

Your miliage may vary as to the size of your most dangerous game but do not over estimate / over kill.

 

a couple thousand primers and depending on rifle 4 to 8 pounds of powder or pistol 2 to 4 pounds look at a loads per pound chart and that

 

will guide you to what you should have on hand.

 

Sounds lik a lot ? well not really and some powders will load pistol and reduced or mid range rifle 2400 loads 223 and pistol well.

 

if your one of those that have a older military bolt rifle read my post on "THE LOAD" by C.E. Harris.

 

for all those of you who have never reloaded 100 cases in pistol can load 1000 + rounds rifle in a pinch can be loaded 3 to 10 times

 

although each time in excess of 3 times if you load high on the data will reduce life and some like 30-30 can be laoded more with less

 

worry of case separation.

 

I would rather have one rifle that I could shoot well than a dozen I did not have the confidence to hit a hand ball at 50 yards.

 

one thing I try to get across is do not rely on battery operated optics, use passive or non battery or powered OK plain scopes are better

 

and research the optics you buy do a search for reviews for the optic your going to buy if it does not have at least 2 dozen 4 to 5 star

 

reviews pass another thing go to their web site and research the warranty if it is not life time pass on it.

 

I like burris pentax and nikon good optics for the money  I also use  leopold or redfield rings and bases if possible steel not aluminum/

 

the last thing is a lead casting pot try to get a bottom pour LEE.

 

lead floats all impurities to the top so a bottom pour drops cleaner lead

 

less funk better bullets fluxing (removing impurities can be done with beeswax or wax or solder flux as well as borax

 

lead needs to be 700 to 725 degrees to cast good bullets and the molds need to be hot it takes some casts to warm them up

 

and if you keep a rythm after they are warmed up you will drop good bullets all the culls you can put back in the pot.

 

they do sell a lead casting thermometer

 

I know I get into the weeds but tidbits that come to mind I try to post as it is the unwritten that is sometimes the important part

 

an analogy is the path statement if you do not understand it, a computer and finding sites on the net as well as files and folders on your computer

 

is like trying to read chinese and your not chiness or have ever seen it.

 

I have read whole books on computing and the one thing they seem to avoid or cannot seem to explain in a cohesive paragraph is the one

 

thing that makes it simple as falling off a log "THE PATH STATEMENT"  sounds simple and it is but it depends on how it is explained

 

one thing about setting up your dies that is not expressed well is to set your sizing die you have the ram up screw the die firm to the shell holder

 

back off the ram and screw IN a 1/4 turn more or else your cases will not fit in the rifle in straight wall  pistol I let the shell holder just touch.

 

I always test a empty case I put it on the bolt and try to close the bolt if it closes good to go if it won't  I did not screw in the die 1/4 turn

 

it happens do a couple of cases and test them do not do it after you have resized a bucket full. and damn sure before you powder and

 

seat the bullet and when you do seat the bullet do a couple with no powder or primer and try them scribe the bullet brand and weight

 

once you get it to proper length in the future this will be your guide when you load that same bullet brand and weight.

 

I like the snap plastic boxes once I have a load I put the test bullet in with a note on the recipe and I keep a load log for those who 

 

do not have a way to shoot at home load 5 to 10 of each powder measurment by incriment and I put them in a zip baggie marked

 

with all the info go shoot them and whatever one shoots consistantly best that's my load if they dont I pull the bullets and try another

 

powder or combination of primer powder and seating of bullet until I find the load that groups or change bullet weight or type

 

untill I get the desired results.

 

cast bullets are a bit different many groups are on the net and many fine people will guide you through tips and secrets that have worked for them

 

as well as some load data for pet loads.

 

I have seldom loaded for a arm that would not shoot after a bit of trial and error as long as you stay within posted data from KNOWN SOURCES

 

and start as advised less 10% of starting load and work up making sure of the caliber / bore size sounds simple right well many people

 

make this mistake or misread data 38 long colt IS NOT the same as 38 special old military rifles have a range of bore diameters

 

research and check your rifle or have a gunsmith check it, many used rifles have been rebarreled for another caliber or have been chambered

 

for IMPROVED version a cerro safe cast of the chamber will tell.

 

a 308 will fit in a 30-06 BUT YOU WON"T LIKE IT....

 

this is one reason why I do not own a 20 gauge it fits in a 12 and then a 12 right behind and BOOM you might get a helicopter ride

 

and make new friends with surgeons and nurses as well as physical therapy techs. IF YOU LIVE.

 

if your not paying attention 308 and 8X57 look the same so if you own both have ammo cans colored and marked also be leary of

 

reloaded ammo I am cautious I use 30-06 Lake City match as it has not caliber marked on it if I form to 8X57 Mauser with a RCBS form die

 

or some other caliber I bag it with a note on what was done how many times reloaded deprimed formed to___ trimed to length chamfered

 

and mark it ready to laod if you have more than a few calibers you should be organized keep a log and notate bags or ammo cans

 

of what it is when and what was loaded and with what powder and bullet also a color code and I stencil my cans and keep them under the arm

 

they are for.

 

One reason why people cannot shoot well is because they never shoot the same ammo if you shoot the same brand bullet weight and

 

type like white box or name like zombie killers most likely your going to shoot to the same point of aim if you buy the cheap sh*t every time

 

and everytime it a different brand and bullet weight your not going to understand why you shot so well or so badly the further the distance

 

the more obvious and sparatic the groups the other reason is some people do not clean their arm some powders shoot great but

 

start to string either the barrel is heating up or once it is cleaned it starts to shoot well again another reason if your barrel get hot and touches

\

the barrel chanel or it just plain changes the harmonics of the barrel and your groups spread, srting  or wander.

 

there are remedies for all these things but experience is the best teacher and reading crap like this may trip your memory and you may can figure

 

it out yourself.

 

shooting is like fishing it is still better than cleaning gutters and waiting at the oil change place or listening to your girlfriend badmouth your wife.

 

or vice versa just a thought.

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Excellent advice and counsel, Snake. Failure to use consistency to our advantage as shooters, results in sheer frustration, missed targets of opportunity and will lead to the ultimate failure when we need our firearms the worst.

I am loathe to understand the hows/whys of people's "understanding" that merely the act of acquiring any firearm and ONE box of ammunition, magically transforms them into an accurate shooter.

Personally, it takes at least bi-weekly shooting forays for me to maintain any semblance of accuracy. I am not blessed with script writers that make things come out "alright" for me at the end of the shooting event, so I HAVE to practice regularly.

People will never "need" a firearn, until they need one badly.

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I go through my old internet bookmarks now and again and came across a good one

 

this site has numerous interesting ideas on reloading making cases casting bullet

 

making your own molds and tools I love it better than wasting time on porn or crotch novels

 

a lot of articles that I remember bits and pieces from pre 1920 information on hunting

 

and firearms I would like for people to read some about paper patching bullets they can be lead or jacketed

 

http://www.lasc.us/IndexBrennan.htm

 

The anti crowd confuses me all a projectile flinger is a closed end pipe with a flash hole (cannon)

 

They really thng that words on paper can stop the mind of man and reject and refuse to call to mind

 

the many instances where dozens and even hundreds of people were murdered with knifes and machetes

 

in the last decade much less before firearms in the 70's a train full of people were hacked to death

 

in one village people sought refuge in a church when a band of enemies attacked the area and got locked in the church

 

and it was burned people who tried to escape were hacked to pieces men women and children and it happened in every

 

decade including this one.

 

in 2 incidents in China one person in each case had a knife and stabbed 20+ people in each incident hell they had a better kill ratio that

 

morons with semi auto guns here the ugly truth is that countries that have no guns still have murders and cherrry picking statistics

 

to prove their point in first lying to themselves and second only mocking the fact that there are brutal people that are evil

 

there always has been and always will be and recent escape of a murderer show me that capitol punishment works

 

because dead people cannot escape and or get parole and comit other crimes,

 

I only mention this because if things get worse so will violence learn to use what you have to defend your family

 

learn so if not this day and time one day as it always happens some group or nation will strive to destroy and trade their

 

peace for power or money it has happened a hundred times in the last 50 years because it is not hear most people do not

 

remember or even know about all the wars and bloody coups and atrocities political murders and many attempts at genocide.

 

America has been blessed that we do not have that here in many many years but if we are not vigilant we can slide in to the

 

same abyss as any other country the erronious thinking is that these countries are backward or somehow less affluent

 

look at Russia many scientists doctors art music ballet and look at what is happening there.

 

europe was at it's zenith in all the sciences art and culture when the first world war started and barley back when the second world war

 

ignighted I feel we are in for another global war because countries are acting like bullies and pushing their weight around just like

 

previous precursors to previous wars people think we have been at war I am not trying to lessen what has happened but

 

viet nam was 55 to 70 thousand dead people forget to count those that died before actual hostilities started or die after from

 

wounds recieved.

 

we have lost less than 10,000 this round but a real sho'nuf draft them out of high school,  rationing at home and white crosses as far as the

 

eye can see is coming and maybe worse it seems so sureal but that is how many people I know see it most are ex military police

 

and I have heard them say what I think best I can describe it is you mount a green horse you know he is going to buck out

 

but he makes no real move then it's flying hooves blood and running through fences next your trying to pry the saddle horn out of your navel

 

it's that split seond of silence before all hell breaks loose you think maybe everything is going to be fine and once it starts you hang on too long

 

and forget you can bail but its too late the horse has gone batsh*t and you got to hang on or chances are you'll get stopmped or your

 

brains kicked out and end up in a wreck cracked ribs loose teeth breath knocked out and your trying to crawl to a place to climb up to stand .

 

not fun.

 

I think we are in that moment just before YEEFRIGGIN"HAAAWW

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Well I thank God that the TEOTWAWKI has not yet arrived.

 

But I read what I had posted and feel I did my best to inform or at least tantalize new people planning to learn reloading just how much information is out there.

 

It may seem daunting but remember most of you will load at most 3 to 5 different calibers so don't let all this information confuse you.

 

I have thought about it and I think that the 308 bolt action rifle is the most versitile it can fire AP, reduced power, jacketed, Lead lead ball plastic trainers and sub caliber in sabots.

it has more selection of bullet weights and designs and more load data than any other caliber.

 

It is the Swiss army knife of defense, varmit to large game hunting long range shooting calibers for its general weight 6.5 to 10 pounds depending on configuration and optics I doubt you could do better.

It is a NATO caliber not that I care about NATO it is just that that makes it easire to find loaded ammo or make with components any time.

 

If you want a good inexpensive rifle I think I would look at the Savage bolt action in .308 and that goes for a experienced or novice shooter

these are a great value and well made.

 

a note on scopes Burris Pentax or Nikon look for sales or good used models but look through before you buy as far as mounts I like redfield or leopold

bridge and same brands in  rings and use stainless scope mount screws.

 

If your dead set on weaver or picatinny use a steel base and rings I like the Burris steel base and ZEE rings

NOT ALUMINUM on a steel action rifle it's a pet peeve but I have found steel lasts and is more ridged for the life of the rifle in fact unless the scope fails or is damaged you should never have to change it or the mounts, you do need to test fire every season just to make sure everything is as it was.

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I have old school Lee Loaders in all of my primary rounds and then one of the Lee hand held presses that use regular dies so I can full length resize. An RCBS single stage press qand a Lyman Turet round out my presses. I have both Lyman and RCBS powder measures and a set of Lee scoops. along with both Lyman and RCBS regular scales and a digital one. The Lee loaders might not be fast but they are small and easy to carry if I have to run.

 

I used to really want a Dillon Progressive...then I sort of out grew the AR/AK facination and got more interested in one hole, sub MOA groups than throwing lead in mass all over the place. I'm about a hundred times deadlier now than I was then.

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Yea Damn

I have all the dies like the Lee loaders and FL or Full Length sizer dies and extra dies and parts like decapping pins and lock rings.

I have 4 scales 2 ballance beam  one electronic I got from Ballistic products and I use my Lee scoops to fill it I can use one that fills within a half grain or less then trickle

the rest out.

 

I do like the Lee powder drop measure it is volume predicated but once you have the right disks it drops a very repeatable measure I accuracy check with a scale on set up and every 10 or so rounds this is more for pistol unless I am using a ball powder that meters very close I have found that flake powder can bridge in the hopper or disk and drop a bit light not crazy but that throws off enough deviation in velocity to make shot to shot accuracy inconsistant.

 

At one time I thought the semi was the way my epiphany was remembering how heavy 2 cans of ammo were and that I would have no resupply.

Then I had to rethink my strategy for a small group and some may be ill prepared for what may come and a heavy recoil may make them ineffective.

Although this may fly in the face of reloading and I thik it is more a backup plan is to have a large store of rimfire.

 

A rimfire backup was not alien to me hunting I would carry a medium bore rifle and a 22 pistol I always liked the Ruger MK I II or III models

and have had to administer the coup de gras on a few tough animals.

I remembered we dropped all our animals for slaughter with a 22,   cattle hogs goats etc. up close and in the right spot lights out no suffering.

 

Somewhere I made the jump to prepping I was already one it was just a name change for I hate shopping every week and I like to save money

for other things like fishing hunting and my love for gadgets and electronic gear.

I figured if I was packing a centerfire Rifle what would make me less aproachable if for some reason I needed to defend myself against a few

persons as we do have a problem with dope growers and met--h labs I came to the conclusion instead of hauling too much I was better off

with a couple of CCI 100 count boxes and 2 boxes of rifle ammo I always carry 3 mags one in and 2 in pouches .

 

I still like a medium bore bolt I choose the 308 for its versitility and raw power but I can hit a small car door at 200 yards with a 22 LR pistol

I like the 3 gun rifle concept centerfire rifle shotgun and rimfire rifle So relaoding is needed to agment ammo supply.

 

In a sudden catastrophe Personal or local regional  national or world wide people may need to defend property or livestock or hunt to augment diet

Having lived and ranched gardens and hunted there are no end to varmits and critters that will wipe out all your work hay gets eaten by deer they eat your livestocks feed and bring in ticks they trash your garden and eat the smallest vegetable greens before your vegetables are ripe.

coons rats and squirrels will nest in your home rabid animals come years apart but when it happens it seems to be serious.

 

not a night goes by here where a coon coyote possum or feral cat once in a blue moon a panther last one I saw was 4 or 5 years ago.

just because you do not see them does not mean they are not around.

since I am not worried about any of these unless they are rabid in either above scenarios a shotgun with a bird shot would work if you know how to reload shotgun is a walk in the park and many pistol powders will load shotgun like blue green red dot and unique and others

being able to reload all of your calibers would be a comfort if you do not have gas money or ability to go out and find it.

 

We just went through a ammo drought it can happen again and with all the troubles I think could go WWIII civilian portion would go to nothing

and even shotgun and common calibers would not be found anywhere.

Sometimes we get a glimmer before the axe swings people knew before WWI the depression and WWII if anyone reads history people were concerned from 8 years out warning that war or calamity was on the horizon and of course there were always the nay sayers.

We were warned about the market crashes that happened and still people are saying it cannot happen again we have protections in place.

 

having components and equipment or tools is your only hope to have ammo if you have one rifle a Lee loader will neck size only but it will reload for your rifle as far as straight wall pistol a Lee loader would load for all your same caliber pistols.

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