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until I see something that trumps 22 mag not interested.


.17 HMR " Hornady Magnum Rimfire " will blow the doors of the 22 magnum any day.






















In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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well that is a 17hmr against a 22 long rifle not magnum although the 17 is better than it also I am not buying anything new

as finding ammo is hard as hell.


many moons ago they used 22 hornet in a revolver it locked it up and now that is why they don't make them anymore

bottle neck cartridges back up against the recoil shield and create drag and can and have hung up a cylinder.

there are other cartridges they tried and it did the same thing.


penetration is not the only factor in a cartridge one of the most important is availability.


as may be noticed in a room sized shooting range he missed that is more important than caliber shooting at a helmet

well that is part of the problem people shoot at what is not a target and complain about it did not penetrate well

it is not suppose to and your posts do more for confusion than why a certain cartridge should be used.


if we are going to talk penetration and traumatic shock effect easy to find then 50BMG is the winner one problem it's heavy.

expensive and not a derringer.

now in a derringer or snub you loose a lot of velocity a 357 mag becomes a 38 +P same with a 17HMR or any other caliber

a smaller shorter firearm you do not get something for nothing more recoil less penetration and velocity.

any arm is better than nothing and an injured attacker is is more easily avoided or engaged than a spry frisky one.


I cringe at the thought that people have this concept that you shoot and the attack ends or you blow holes in everything and

somewhere in all the carnage the attacker dies although it does happen either way many times they escape or fight on or shoot back.

one argument is the L.A. bank robbery police are used to suspects fleeing and had no plan to defend themselves in this scenario

not to mention they got fixated on the armor and not that certain might be exposed to concentrate their fire in vulnerable

areas. though they had radios most of the conversation was to dispatch for backup and not relaying information to the police on

scene to coordinate firepower I noticed on the scene video with companion radio transmissions were of a less than confident

group I have tried to explain feet face neck hands groin knees elbows are generally not protected.

emptying a fire arm into someone out of fear without observing reaction is not helpful you may not be hitting your target or

you may be dealing with some anomaly armor heavy clothing for the caliber your using .

training double tapping chest face chest face this leave you with one or two shells left if your attacker is not down your needing

to change tactics.

seems like a unlikely scenario well so did 911 and school security.


a fight is not usually won with one blow in a normal altercation drugs and mental illness may be a reason for a criminal attack

your now dealing with a brand new and improved problem and you may need to use that fancy pocket knife you have been sharpening for the last year.


nothing is set in stone try not to have any preconceived ideas deal with what your witnessing your the best judge of your

situation have some faith in your self it is not a time to question the caliber of your arm your score on your last CCW class.

concentrate on the front sight and squeeze twice recover each time and make sure of that second shot.

look for a reaction if none pick another spot you have all the time in the world {your world anyway}

before this if it was possible you should have sized up your opponent.


I hate silhouette targets a real target should have a 6 inch wide stripe center line anything out side is not a vital hit

when face to face that is all you got thinking a person is going to stand with hand on hip and other bent is ludicrous

at best even some of the couching targets are full front and static give a distorted perception of real combat IMO.


17HMR does not do well if it strikes a intermediate object first it has merit but unless it comes in a great functioning hand

gun with a minimum barrel length of 3 or 4 inches a person needs to look for something else in fact having taught most cannot shoot a snub well enough add in fear or surprise I try to steer them into a bit longer barrel some more toward a revolver

as their assess and clear malfunction drills with some can be an abysmal failure.

and all small calibers need more practice more accuracy and a full understanding of the positives and negatives of whatever caliber a person chooses or has none are perfect but when used properly are effective.


I give you the new york zoo attack of a woman by a polar bear the police officer only had a colt police positive 38 special

he stuck it in the bears ear fired once and bad polar bear fall down go boom.

and I do not care who you ask 38 special 158 grain round nose lead bullets are not repeat not for polar bear hunting ever.

so he made my point accuracy and willingness to deal with the situation are more important than caliber.

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Snake, big differance between rifle & a handgun when it comes to energy & veloscity. Besides i haven't seen a handgun in .17HMR for sale in Canada yet. Thought you were talking about 22magnums in rifles. LOL . When it comes to handguns i would'nt buy one that is less than 4 1/2 inches. By-laws are different up here in Canada. Oh i've been around the block afew times when it comes to firearms & bladed weapons. So nothing new to me.











In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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in the U.S we have pistols in 17HMR and being a "SMITH" i know the longer one is a rifle and a

shotgun looks like plumbers stock.

bylaws sounds like a subdivision carrying anything bigger than your hand is way to much weight and size

for EDC I like 22 mag it is light pretty close to 38 special in power level and quite small an a air weight

3 speed loaders for 24 rounds and a wallet all hydra shoks and about 60 in the truck

for the 22 mag with 15 rounds total on me and 50 in the truck and a Smith & Wesson

assisted opener knife and in my vest a Swiss army explorer and a mass of other stuff

if I get to my vehicle I have extra ammo a shotgun in a galls magnetic rack holder with a hidden switch

7 rounds in 6 on the stock and a 25 in a bandoleer of mixed fun and 2 boxes of 25 rounds of 3" 00 buck

along with my GHB I find I am well covered for a hike back to the house

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