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Rapture333

Moral Dillemma

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As preppers I believe their is one thing many of us fail to account for, something that is very difficult if not impossible to prepare for. That is the moral dilemmas that come with prepping... AKA, survivors guilt. Many of us prep for different reasons, some more extreme situations then others, many of us are lone wolf preppers and only prep for ourselves, we all come from different ages and walks of life with different situations and relationships.

 

The question I have for my fellow preppers, is do you think you are mentally prepared for whatever catastrophes may or may not take place, especially when those who you have a close relationship with are not prepared. Many of us prep in isolation, in order to keep our security if the S does HTF, usually only letting others who have the same thoughts on preparedness in on our preps. I think many of us have thought about the possible outcome of those we care about who are not prepared, and while not happy about it, accept it.

 

I think many of us, especially us lone wolf preppers, have never spent enough time entertaining the idea that the suffering of those we care about will effect us. Their are some men on this forum who have whole families, with a wife and children who feel that it is their responsibility to protect that circle of people that is closest to him, these preppers usually prepare his family as best as he can, with his families consent and knowledge and understanding. But what about the rest of us? What of us whose wives/fiances/girlfriends have no intention to prep, those that probably wouldn't listen to us about preparedness or what could happen if we don't prepare (for that situation that may or may not someday happen).

 

How do you deal with the emotional dilemmas of things like survivors guilt. This could be caused by not knowing how someone close to you ended up, like a close friend or family member, or knowing that the SHTF for them much worse then it did for you. Do we have a moral obligation to those we care about and if so how do we address these obligations? Is it to get those we care about to prep or have extra supplies handy to help.

 

If you are in a situation where you can bug out, or help your girlfriend, or your brother, or your mother, do you stay put or do you seek self preservation? This question may be harder to answer for some then others, but I think its an important question that we need to consider now as it may be one we may be asking ourselves when (and if) TSHTF.

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We all have choices in life, majority of the population will not act on things until it's the very last minute. Then they say it's time to act on the issue at hand, but it's too late. I have ants,uncles,cousons,neeses,nefews & certain friends that will never prep to the extent that i will or never will. I've talked to them at gatherings, & no interest. Yes it bothers me, i'm just one person & can only do so much. I can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. So i've come to to my own understanding that if one is not willing to act & prep for their own safety for the future then it's their problem & not mine. I've said my piece & be done with it. When the SHIT does HIT the FAN. If they deside to show up at me place with nothing, I'll be showing them the door. Sad to say it, but that's how i roll & i'm sticking to it. If one's not willing to help them self when given the chance, they deserve what they get. Too bad, so sad, won't give a rats ass, even if they get mad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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i've tried to warn people about whats to come to no avail so i've stopped trying its on thier own head/hands what happens to them now..that said i have prepared a little bit for chairty but its not much...my door is closed.

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My immediate and extended family is spread all across the nation. If something happened, I doubt I'd even know what their status was and therefore my emotions would be ones of worry and wonder...are they okay? Alive? Safe? Will I see them soon? I wouldn't have to worry about sharing my supplies.

 

My parents, sister and brother-in-law all know my husband and I prep. They respect it and maybe even admire it, but as far as I know, they have not taken any direction on it for themselves although they have been open to discussion and open to receiving info I complied on their behalf about it. I also have a best friend with whom I have discussed this topic. She falls into this same category.

 

I have not opened up about my lifestyle to any of my extended family.

 

My husband's family (mom, dad, brother, sister-in-law and 4 kids (all minors)) do prep. We are like-minded with them. And our BOL is in their area, not our's.

 

Now, my parents will retire in about 1-2 years. At that time it looks like they and my grandfather will move to where I am to be close. At that time, I will need to rethink our BO plans.

 

We keep all our supplies and prepping assets very secret from our neighbors. And, if we BO'd, we'd probably try to leave in secret at night.

 

I am not opposed to sharing, but I dislike the idea that because I have plenty, I OWE others who have less. My husband and I are very, very charitable people with people who truly demonstrate needs, but we have no trouble shutting a door on someone who acts like we owe them stuff because of our station in life that we have attained due to our hard work and due to my husband's family's hard work. We don't appreciate being told by anybody that we owe anyone anything. And telling us that means we will look for the fastest way to slam a door shut in someone's face.

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Of course, if someone goes ahead and knocks on your door, even if it is your neighbor, I would give very little if it meant endangering me in the future, or nothing at all. But for me I have very young brothers and sisters and a family that is not into prepping, that is where the moral dilemma comes in for me. I was just curious what other people thought, I know everyone has a different situation.

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Of course, if someone goes ahead and knocks on your door, even if it is your neighbor, I would give very little if it meant endangering me in the future, or nothing at all. But for me I have very young brothers and sisters and a family that is not into prepping, that is where the moral dilemma comes in for me. I was just curious what other people thought, I know everyone has a different situation.

 

Spend time with them, while doing so teach them things that you do know. Make things together or do things together like, making traps/snaires/penny stoves/fishing/different ways of making a fire/growing plants for food/shooting skills if you own a firearm with safety first. Most of all try to make it fun to do. I'm assuming your the oldest sibling in the family. Hope these ideas help. Remember, the family that prays together, stays together. All the best to you, your parents & siblings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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Rapture, this is a difficult question and I know many of us have struggled with the right answer. My neighbors (I hope) know nothing of my preps, and I have no plans to share any but the most basic but my brothers and sister are aware and fortunately they do prep to some extent. Unfortunately, we live too far apart to coordinate but we do share ideas and help each other as best we can. If any of them show up on my doorstep, then of course I will help them because I know if they are there, then there then somthing happened with their plans, not that they were not trying to prepare. In my mind, that is what makes the difference.

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survivors guilt?

 

no one lives forever so are there really any survivors?

 

it will come and go just don't wallow in it as it is not healthy blame and circumstances are for God to evaluate.

I try not to do his job every time I have I just screw up stuff worse.

 

In redneck parlance, "get off the cross we need the wood".

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I agree with what snake and mommy said. Mommy I have the same mentality towards the G pop looking at you and yours like you owe them something just because you had the foresight to prep. Its not your burden to bear for their short coming. Snake is right, its ultimately gods call. The most heavily and well situated prepper with the best laid out of plans could be one of the first to go down and the last person on earth could very likely be someone who never knew of prepping.

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In the END, it will be MIND over matter. Your MIND is your strongest tool. If one does not have the MIND to do things, make things, solve things/problems. Then it does'nt MATTER. If one has all the equipment/tools, food, water, meds, shelter etc etc.. given to them to survive, & have no ability to utilize them or know how, their SOL. Their DEAD in a very short time. Your ability to act at the issue at hand will be your bigest asset. In my life so far, i've come across people who came to Canada with nothing, that are financially stable, self made MILLIONAIRES in less than 10 years. Then i come across people who won the lottery & loose everything in afew short years. ALot of things is comminsence with critical thinking, lacking it is just non-sence. I'll step of the podium now. RANT OFF.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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I can't save everyone...if I tried I'd just put me and mine in worse shape than we were before.

 

Its my job to take care of me and mine...its your job to take care of you and yours. So to my way of thinking you should be doing your job. Your job isn't to buy the biggest house, the flashiest car or whatever. Its to make sure that the people you are responsible for are taken care of. That means fed, clothed, sheltered...any thing beyond that is a bonus. <shrug>

 

Having said that I do not exclude some charity.

 

I remember the stories my dad told me about what Germany was like toward the end of the war and after, about having to go house to house out in the country with his mother and beg for bread or food from the various farmers...so I figure I have some payback to do if it should come to that. But my people will come first and foremost because THEY are my responsibility.

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yea some charity is a good thing not being sexist but a woman with a small kid who are caught between a rock and a hard place

 

or the elderly both who are trying and sliding backward really gets me.

 

I pray I have the discernment to do the right thing at the right time in the right way.

 

but I have to be practical and look out for mine too as that is my responsibility first.

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whatever your choice, always take the moral high road.

 

To play devils advocate In a survival situation you take whatever road keeps you and your family alive.. sometimes that may not be the moral one. honestly I have tried to mentally prepare myself that I might have to do things that would more than likely condemn me to hell if it came to it but if ensured my wife and children live to see another day than so be it.

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I have had a number of people in our neighborhood say, "I'm coming to YOUR house when we have an emergency", to which I casually quip, "Then you will die at the bottom of the hill with everyone else!"

I am very involved in the community's effort for emergency preparedness, and our home IS the BOL, for our adult children and grandchildren. They will come first, and I won't lose any

sleep over that long-ago decision either. I try to do all I can to help people get their OWN preps going, and am a "cheerleader" of sorts.

I believe in VOLUNTARY charity, not forced by any entity or a line of hungry neighbors demanding our supplies. It is OUR choice on When, How, Where to help, not anyone else's.

Every adult has their own moral responsibility to care for their own family members first, and we distribute a lot of free information to interested people.

However, we live in an "instant society" where expectations are unreasonable, patience is never practiced and self-discipline is non-existent.

The "entitlement mentality" comes from the Plantation Mentality, which I never have nor never will support, as it robs people of their own initiative. Such robbery, breeds contempt for those who work hard and sacrifice for their own family's self-reliance. I can not in good

conscience support depriving people of the gift of self-reliance, ergo, our distribution of prepping information, how-to seminars in the community, etc. all as an unpaid volunteer.

We do more service in our community, than all the political pimps in the state where we now live. We seek now public recognition at all, and try hard to be as invisible as possible.

I do not worry about "moral dilemma" at all. Adults can make good decisions, or stand in the FEMA and Red Cross lines, we will help our senior neighbors, who have been unable to physically prep for themselves. Hungry children will also be assisted to the extent we can help feed THEM. People who put their priorities into their toys, instead of emergency preparedness, can deal with the consequences of those "decisions" all on their own.

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yep i have a couple of people reply with the same comment about heading to my house. I ask them what they are bringing to the party then? when they give a look i tell them that had better be bringing a lot of food, water, medicine, guns and bullets for stock, or they had better have some useful skill like being a doctor. when they get mad I ask to see a picture of their wife.. it usually ends the conversation about right then and there.. but I'm an asshole like that.. :)

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I'm going to hang two water filtration bags that crank out about 10 gallons per hour at the gazebo by the pond and park out back.

It's a big pond so people will drink from it any way if I don't and get sick and die later.

Any militias will focus on the gathering and water supplies first where I can pick them off.

If food gets rare i'll bbq them, hey it's Texas ya know.

 

Better yet, I think i'll just lay low:cool:

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If you've survived and others haven't then surviver's guilt is very, very real and can be fatal! Ask any combat vet. It took me over 5 years to even begin to be able to talk about RVN, I still have nightmares on occasion, and, yes, I still feel guilty about my crew that got chewed up two days after I left country (early to meet a school date) because I wasn't there when the helicopter needed me to fly it! My replacement screwed up a simple emergency procedure and MY guys paid the price. Every surviver has that issue if people he's close to don't make it. The Captain of the USS Indianapolis committed suicide in the 1960's. That's the cruiser that was sunk in 1945 in the Pacific, most of the crew made it off and then the sharks got literally hundreds of them. The captain, who was blamed unjustly, survived the sinking but NOT the guilt.

When you start putting value on human life, it gets very dicey. I resent (usually quietly but not always) the folks that calmly assert that I will cause the death of women and children to make sure that I survive myself. History shows that in many cases that happens but in a great many more cases, the men (real men in my opinion) put themselves at risk to save the helpless. We take chances because we are men, not animals. Choose the other way if you wish but I want no part of you. I pray I will never again have to make the choices I had to make in combat but if I do, I pray I will not lose my humanity because of the situation.

Just my not so humble opinion.

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Good words, Capt. Unfortunately, we seem to breeding a generation (or two) of folks in this country who probably will have no survivor guilt because they feel they are entitled to the best, and nobody else really matters. I forget the clinical definition of sociopath, but that is the way some of these little "rascals" are already operating now, before any real disaster. They will be the nucleus of any "Golden Horde" that develops. At any rate, I think people with a functioning sense of right and wrong will have at least some problems seeing women and children starving no matter how much they remind themselves their family comes first. "Gazing long into the Abyss" is a challenge for any right thinking person.

 

BTW, I read about what happened with the USS Indianapolis and how they died to keep the atomic bombs a secret, which just added to the tragedy and loss of life.

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I don't think anybody is advocating letting children starve but put in a situation where it is your children starve or feed a stranger what will be your choice? everybody wants to say they will play the moral white knight in a terrible situation but human history dictates the human response to be anything other than that. you cannot save everybody in a situation like a total collapse. trying to save everyone will only cause the death of everyone. the active entitlement crowd definitely will be the mindless hordes that will turn marauder and i have no guilt in gunning them down if they come to take what is mine, but with a finite amount of supplies you cannot turn into a charity for every beggar that hasn't eaten and you will have to turn people away even if it means their death, that is if you care at all about the people you are already charged with protecting and ensuring their survival. I just think there are going to be a lot of tough choices that will have to be made that wont exactly hold up in our current society's definition of right and wrong. I believe that being prepared to be willing to make those choices ahead of time might be the difference between life and death.

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I was reading back through this thread grateful I'm not the only one thinking about this. My family comes first. If I have enough to help someome else I will but I need to take care of my pack first. I agree that it is every able bodied adults responsibility to look after their own family. I have talked with my mom about having extra supplies for weather related scenarious just to help her wrap her mind around it, as much as I love her she's like a bird with her head in the sand. So I'm doing what I can to take care of my daughter, my parents and one other male adult. I wish she would take a more active role in things, but perhaps that is my fault and we need to talk again. I'd really like to be on board with things she an R. N but I still feel that she and dad are my resposibity.

 

When TSHTF it will be worse than anyone ever dreamed of society is coated in a thin veneer of civility. Take away their creature comforts and they revert to something worse than animals. I hope that we can all make peace within ourselves for the decisions that we may have to face. The horror is coming...

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I was reading back through this thread grateful I'm not the only one thinking about this. My family comes first. If I have enough to help someome else I will but I need to take care of my pack first. I agree that it is every able bodied adults responsibility to look after their own family. I have talked with my mom about having extra supplies for weather related scenarious just to help her wrap her mind around it, as much as I love her she's like a bird with her head in the sand. So I'm doing what I can to take care of my daughter, my parents and one other male adult. I wish she would take a more active role in things, but perhaps that is my fault and we need to talk again. I'd really like to be on board with things she an R. N but I still feel that she and dad are my resposibity.

 

When TSHTF it will be worse than anyone ever dreamed of society is coated in a thin veneer of civility. Take away their creature comforts and they revert to something worse than animals. I hope that we can all make peace within ourselves for the decisions that we may have to face. The horror is coming...

 

well said. and the worst animals will be the ones who were not prepared. they are the ones that if they survive long enough will become very dangerous. People have watched too much hollywood and think that a collapse type situation will be full of some kind of adventure with guns and saving the remnants of humanity. when the reality will be something much much darker

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well said. and the worst animals will be the ones who were not prepared. they are the ones that if they survive long enough will become very dangerous. People have watched too much hollywood and think that a collapse type situation will be full of some kind of adventure with guns and saving the remnants of humanity. when the reality will be something much much darker

 

Funny things about adventures - often enough, when you're not bored to tears you're scared to death. I've become hobbit like in my old age - I just want to be left alone to enjoy what years I have left. Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen. You are correct, the Hollywood (who all hate guns, remember?) is busy showing us how to spray and pray and kill and take and if you die hit reset and .......... Not like that at all.

 

There is a difference between self defense and helping neighbors. I have my barter cache and my 'charity' cache. I will NOT see a child hungry if I can help it. On the other hand, I will barter for something I don't need if I can rather than giving charity. If it has to be charity, then I will make sure the receiver KNOWS it is charity and not an entitlement. When TSHTF, attitudes can get you killed.

 

Try to take and I will defend with lethal force; seek help and I will help if possible. Things really are black and white. After TSHTF there is no gray.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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same here I have been gathering up items for barter, I have even gathered several kinds of common rifle calibers that i dont even have weapons to fire them out of..but someone else might. I would much rather sit down with someone and have a civil trade agreement to ensure both families or groups get what they need to ensure life goes on for everyone involved. and that cooperation strengthens mutual defense in times of "need". Trust me if a child is involved ill give up my own rations to ensure they eat if it came to that. its the other kind of people that Im Afraid are going to force me to make darker decisions than i want too

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