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vonBayern

.308 question

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Ok, I know that if your AR or whatever is marked to shoot .223 that you shouldn't shoot 5.56 our of it.

 

I have read someplace that if your rifle is marked 7.62x51 that you shouldn't shoot .308 ammo out of it. Something about head space, don't remember all the particulars.

 

Just want to make sure this is correct because its backwards as compared to the .223.

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I have shot everything in everything and still have fingers and toes eyes etc.

 

there are NO 2 chambers alike as far as head space you have a go no-go and a field gauge.

 

the power level on a military round and a civilian round are different but not so excessively so as to be

 

a danger unless you have a poorly made rifle.

 

here is a link of someone who thinks they know something but then he fails to insert the bullet length for the 308 rifle

 

and the bullet weight this alters pressure a 147 grain bullet is not going to generate the pressure of a 220 grain bullet

 

a rifle fires from a closed bolt if the bolt is not closed it should not fire unless it i broke heavier bullets cannot be used in

 

a military rifle as they can bend the op rod this is one reason why civilian ammo should be evaluated before use in a

 

military weapon his data on pressure is good but then he fails to tell you if you reload certain powders do not have

 

the pressures he warns of I have fired thousands of .308 civilian ammo out of a H&K 91 this data is also flawed

 

he acts as if all the ammo in the world meets SAMMI specs it does not Turkish ammo is notorious for being high pressure

 

if your in a sh*t storm what you going to read the label? there is a problem it is called stupid a bolt rifle with good head

 

space will fire either or a semi or auto will not bullet weight can damage rifles as well as powder selection

 

powders that produce higher pressures and have sensitivity to heat can destroy a rifle as well as the addition

 

of bullet weight .

 

know your enemy a rusty or pitted chamber can cause problems he failed to mention that a rough or pitted bore

 

throat length etc etc this guy acts like every military chamber is match well they are not if so you would have failures

 

as ammo due to heat will expand now add in the fact that they are made as any other rifle on an assembly line

 

and the reamer may be worn or hot and that will cause them to walk making a non concentric chamber {egg shaped}

 

seen it in new rifle right out of the box.

 

Cerro safe chamber mold will allow you to have a cast of your chamber also a case gauge to test reloads but it can also

 

test new ammo people have gone hunting only to find that the ammo would not chamber DUH! it can happen

 

medications have been recalled what you think ammo is sacrosanct some Buddhist monk and a Rabbi are checking

 

every one of 1 million rounds per day and then a witch doctor is packing it in boxes PLEASE!

 

How many rifles are blow up in a year now how many had a roach or spider in the barrel then did they load

 

a off caliber in the wrong rifle like a 270 in a 30-06 I have seen that and a 20 in a 12 gauge then another 12 ga, and BOOM

 

Re manufactured ammo may not be loaded to specs of either SAMMI or any other specs.

 

military ammo has a thicker web as the barrel has pressure and as the bolt retracts it keeps the web from blowing out

 

as I have only fired a truck load of both through both 5.56 and 7.62 and vice versa I can say never a hiccup

 

but I fire the rated bullet weight for both calibers 55 grains for 5.56 and 137 to 150 grains in 7.62 military NO MORE

 

lastly the pressure levels on civilian ammo are not similar from one maker to another I have seen just as many

 

pistol rounds have blown webs from incorrectly ramp and polish on semi autos to deep and the web is not supported

 

and if your lucky the gas blows off the grips and punches out the magazine and all you get is some singed fingers

 

but it could cause real damage.

 

the argument that the head space between 308 and 7.62 will cause the brass to flow so much in one firing is ludicrous

 

as it would have to elongate the case to intrude into the rifling before the bullet leaves the case thus squeezing the bullet

 

causing over pressure but still it is not a barrel obstruction larger bullets have been fired in undersized bores IT HAPPENS.

 

7,62 X 39 is .312 or 313 in diameter people have fired them in a 308 barrel with a chamber adapter.

 

Turd Fergeson may have experienced a PING or a detonation this occurs when a shell is under charged and instead of a

 

burn there is enough air space to cause all the powder to explode at one time under normal conditions powder burns

 

from the rear to the front and as the powder is expanding and pushing the bullet out so the unburned powder is

 

forced down the barrel and is burning as it moves down the barrel if your barrel is short unburned powder is burned

 

in the atmosphere causing a muzzle flash you can control flash by changing powders and testing.

 

Having a rifle or pistol does not make you annie okley or matt dillion reloading does not make you any smarter either

 

if your not willing to learn and read a lot before you take on any hobby your asking for failure and in the fact that

 

your holding the launching device against your face with your hands wrapped around that same device it would

 

behoove people to READ THE DAMN MANUAL AND MAKE SURE THE BORE IS NOT OBSTRUCTED AND THAT YOU HAVE THE

 

RIGHT CALIBER AMMO.

 

If you reload you can move the shoulder back on a bottle necked case you can also seat the bullet out so far or inside too much

 

and change pressure and possibility of a bad problem.

 

under powdered loads can cause a case to collapse as gas flows around the neck and crushes the case in the chamber

 

sometimes gas flows back toward the shooter another reason you should wear polycarbonate lens shooting glasses

 

a sliver of brass from a pistol or a sliver from a brass jacket skived lead from a out of battery chamber gas from

 

a blown primer or some of many anomalies.

 

These facts should in no way inhibit the reloader or shooter but ingrain that consistent and methodical loading

 

techniques should be taken seriously as well as shooting safety wear gloves wear glasses never load without

 

data from a known and double checked sources I have 8 hand loading manuals and numerous pamphlets from

 

manufacturers and even downloaded new information from their sites.

 

old manuals are not lawyered up newer ones can have higher pressure data and some calibers are pathetic compared to

 

manuals from 60 years ago.

 

here are the sites to wrangle on your own I have my own opinions and ideas on what rifles can do what and when.

 

http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html

 

http://www.larrywillis.com/case_gauge.html

 

the same people that wring their hands about this stuff should never get into black powder cause that is just crazy

 

wild if you wonder how you can have an air gap using pellets and a shotgun primer that is not made to hold more than

 

16,000 CUP patched or non patched conical round ball or minnie OH NO holly sh*t in the rain no less single shot walking

 

through the woods with a bore that could swallow a friggin' limb the size of your finger but that's OK ????

 

OH and by the way you can't shoot 22 shorts in a 22 long rifle it will ring the chamber LMAO {more BULLSHIZE}

 

steel is not effected by the occasional using of shorts and proper cleaning will help the thousands of rounds it would

 

take to ring a chamber is more than an average shooter fires not to mention that ring may be just lead and a good

 

cleaning will take care of it.

 

black powder would ring chambers as it was corrosive and steel was milder and those that did not properly

 

wash the acid that eats the steel would have ringed chambers causing hard extraction as the case filled the ring

 

I guess one reason why I get on my back legs about this topic is that it has yet to be dissected into a rational

 

and reasonable argument I am not a world renowned gun writer nor gunsmith even those guys cannot agree.

 

BUT I know enough to be dangerous so learn on your own and ask lots of questions each firearm is like a person

 

one will one won't and others can't or should not YOU have to learn the difference the web is a world of information

 

much to some of it is horse hockey if you do not recheck double check and verify for yourself you may miss out

 

on a world not open to you or a interesting hobby and just to let people know a rifle can have the barrel pulled and

 

reface the shoulder to set back the chamber it depends on if it is a bolt action or another breed as to how difficult

 

to do this or if it is better to rebarrel.

 

If you want to you can buy numerous boxes of ammo and mic them and see for yourself in fact in one box there

 

are differences but what really gets me is people who talk all that jazz and shoot wolf and ammo made at an egg roll

 

factory ammo with steel cases and want to nit pick why they don't shoot Hertenberger, Norma, lake city on and on

 

{because they don't recognize the name} "never heard of it syndrome".

 

and if your rifle is out of spec the finest ammo in the world may not shoot worth a damn anyway

 

numerous causes are loose stock bolts sloppy stock fit too much free bore loose sights or scope mounts

 

barrel not free floated or stock channel not finished out and or as well as over tight bolts no bedding

 

some need ferrules to keep stock bolts from slopping side to side etc etc.

 

AND sometimes you have to brain storm with someone else knowledgeable to figure it out

 

back to the issue if your scared use a string and mount the rifle in a cradle and remote fire it and check the brass

 

that should do one of 2 things blow the piece of sh*t up and that might save your life later or prove your rifle

 

does not have an issue 3 shots with each ammo you consider using.

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The rule I learned was .223 then no 5.56, but .223 will work in a 5.56 rifle. I've never had a problem with 308 Win and 7.62x51, vonBayern, and I have heard the same thing Snake mentioned about the comparable pressures.

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I was researching Varget powder made by Hodgdon all I have seen in data shows it to be very temperature stable

 

lower peak pressure over other powders in similar calibers you can get excellent velocities without going over MAX

 

pressure it seems to work in 30 caliber by all information and material like reloading reviews and printed

 

chronograph and pressure data form all sources.

 

once a loaded case reaches 130 degrees Fahrenheit the pressure curve changes in many powders increasing pressure

 

some powders do not like sub zero temps they can hang fire {delayed ignition} it is not common but many people in extreme

 

cold carry ammo in their shirt under their jacket to keep the shells warm.

 

I mention this as I have been looking to try another powder and research is always the first step I like 308 my favorite

 

caliber.

 

my favorite .308 bullet is a 165 grain boat tail soft point moving at 2550 FPS is bad medicine on anything

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Varget is the only powder I use for my rifles. Loading this powder for over 25 years now. It's one of the best powder for rifle ammo, if not the best in my views. When it arrives at the gun shops, their gone within days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your not " Physically Fit ", then your just Food for the Zombies.LOL.

In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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