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MommyLiberty5013

Active Shooter - Engage or Not IF you are not Law Enforecement or Military Trained

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Another point to consider (check local laws) is that if you ARE a CCW holder and armed, you are required to defend innocents who are in imminent danger. If you escape and nobody knows you're carrying (which they shouldn't), then you can assume no legal repurcussions. If they search you and find you were armed and the law stands, even if the DA doesn't pursue charges, an ambulance chaser may find a willing family member of a victim and you'll face civil action.

 

It's a slippery slope and either way, the law abiding citizen is screwed.

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Just for legal protection (your conscience is still scarred), most, if not all states have laws that add to the charges of the criminal if any other crime or tragedy is caused by the initial crime. If some robs a bank and a customer has a heart attack or their partner is shot and killed by security/LEO, the criminal is charged with murder. These laws can also save you from prosecution.

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Vis 9 is making alot of sense, as are all the others who have posted on the legal ramifications. Not saying it will happen, but....

 

If felons caught with firearms, no matter the circumstance, face long term sentences and felons caught with firearms while attempting a crime face death...

Plus private citizens carry rights extend to anywhere within their state....

 

Makes sense that crime rates will drop drastically right? The criminal no longer holds all the advantages. Who knows who may be armed in the immediate vicinity of where they are attempting to hold people at gun point?

 

Gun free zones don't work, Current gun control doesn't work, Why not try making the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard for once? It's worked for training kids, dogs, and horses for years, why not for training criminals?

 

The only type of gun legislation limiting firearm use I would support is stricter penalties for felons posessing a firearm. I think lethal force rights should be improved for people protecting their property as well as their family or person. If a criminal can legally be shot for stealing, and can also be legally be incarcerated for a long time for attempting a robbery with a firearm, again crime rates will drop. If the laws only allow you to protect your person and not your property than criminals know THEIR RIGHTS and they can steal without fear of armed resistance. I firmly believe that increasing the rights and decreasing the liability of armed citizens while creating stricter penalties for felons with firearms will do more to drop the violent crime rate than anything. It's time criminals are the ones feeling scared instead of their victims. People are willing to act if the law allows them to.

 

Make it legal to use lethal force to protect property as well as lives, put the correct laws into place on felons with guns, and see where the chips fall. Bet it works.

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I do not care about any one else's family..........

 

 

 

this is part of a huge problem with america today. to many people just worried about me, myself, and i.

its a different mentality today than what it was when my mom and dad were alive. most of us were

brought up different back then. we didnt call it charity back then when we helped out other families,

it was just something we did and i still do w/o thinking a second thought about it.

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Death penalties cost about a thousand times as much as a life sentence. This is a FACT. I know that in Texas whether or not you get the death penaly has as much to do with WHERE you did it as what you did. When someone is given a death sentence it starts a LOOOOOONG and costly process of appeals that will go on for YEARS. The total cost of this ends up on the backs of the taxpayers of the county where it is prosecuted. You can't do a death penalty case with some idiot public defender. If you do it is just going to get overturned in the appeals because they will say that he lacked competent legal advice. This means that right up front the county has to hire a VERY expensive lawyer to represent the person that they are also paying the prosecutor to prosecute!!!

 

If you live in a smaller town in a more rural area then you can expect to end up with a change of venue and that means that you have to pay for transport and housing for the criminal AND you will eventually get the bill from the attorneys that represent them. Expect right up front that if you just HAVE to execute someone that it is probably going to take about 15 years and SEVERAL million dollars.

 

Compare this to throwing the dude in the slammer and throwing away the key...they already have a place for him and it doesn't cost as much as they say to house someone in a cage for a year. Probably about 15 grand at the max. They will tell you it is 30 grand but the fact is, in Texas the inmates work and don't get paid. They do EVERYTHING that is used by the state from license plates through furniture and braille text books along with any other printed material the state uses. They start with cotton fields in Texas and end up with the clothes the inmates wear. Hell I sleep on a lovely king sized mattress that was made in a prison!!! The state does pretty well with the prison system here. When you take out the stuff they make it cuts the cost of keeping them better than in half and lifers are the very BEST. They used to have the dental lab in the death row prison because they were the ones that lived there long enough to actually get good at stuff.

 

When you kill someone they will never do it again. There has never been a death row inmate escape and hurt someone. I like California's way( GOD saying that makes me gag and want to PUKE!!!) They give out the death penalty but if the dude doesn't hurt anyone he will most likely die of natural causes.The problem is when you kill someone it is FINAL and too late to say OOPS we killed the wrong dude! We turned one out this year that DNA evidence proves that he isn't the killer...I don't think he's even the right race!!!!! Took them over 10 years but they finally got it right!!! Of course the state now owes him several million dollars for wrongly imprisoning him.

 

The death penalty is just VERY expensive revenge and sadly before DNA they estimate about 3% were INNOCENT!!!!!!! Back before the appeals process they figure that about 10% of those executed were innocent yet I'm always hearing people screaming the do it in a hurry. How many INNOCENT people is it OK to murder? If we just HAVE to kill a few innocent people why don't we just have a murder lotto and kill the losers. How would you like it is your kid was the loser? It's about the same thing... Lock 'em up and throw away the key! You CAN undo that if you made a mistake.

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I vote for giving a substantial reward to any citizen taking out a armed felon involved in a criminal act. It is time to reward the good. The criminal or accused should not have his or her name splastered all over the media....just refer to them as the accused felonious perp. If they are proven to have done the deed or freely admit to it wipe them off the face of the earth and move on.

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Death penalties cost about a thousand times as much as a life sentence. This is a FACT. I know that in Texas whether or not you get the death penaly has as much to do with WHERE you did it as what you did. When someone is given a death sentence it starts a LOOOOOONG and costly process of appeals that will go on for YEARS. The total cost of this ends up on the backs of the taxpayers of the county where it is prosecuted. You can't do a death penalty case with some idiot public defender. If you do it is just going to get overturned in the appeals because they will say that he lacked competent legal advice. This means that right up front the county has to hire a VERY expensive lawyer to represent the person that they are also paying the prosecutor to prosecute!!!

 

If you live in a smaller town in a more rural area then you can expect to end up with a change of venue and that means that you have to pay for transport and housing for the criminal AND you will eventually get the bill from the attorneys that represent them. Expect right up front that if you just HAVE to execute someone that it is probably going to take about 15 years and SEVERAL million dollars.

 

Compare this to throwing the dude in the slammer and throwing away the key...they already have a place for him and it doesn't cost as much as they say to house someone in a cage for a year. Probably about 15 grand at the max. They will tell you it is 30 grand but the fact is, in Texas the inmates work and don't get paid. They do EVERYTHING that is used by the state from license plates through furniture and braille text books along with any other printed material the state uses. They start with cotton fields in Texas and end up with the clothes the inmates wear. Hell I sleep on a lovely king sized mattress that was made in a prison!!! The state does pretty well with the prison system here. When you take out the stuff they make it cuts the cost of keeping them better than in half and lifers are the very BEST. They used to have the dental lab in the death row prison because they were the ones that lived there long enough to actually get good at stuff.

 

When you kill someone they will never do it again. There has never been a death row inmate escape and hurt someone. I like California's way( GOD saying that makes me gag and want to PUKE!!!) They give out the death penalty but if the dude doesn't hurt anyone he will most likely die of natural causes.The problem is when you kill someone it is FINAL and too late to say OOPS we killed the wrong dude! We turned one out this year that DNA evidence proves that he isn't the killer...I don't think he's even the right race!!!!! Took them over 10 years but they finally got it right!!! Of course the state now owes him several million dollars for wrongly imprisoning him.

 

The death penalty is just VERY expensive revenge and sadly before DNA they estimate about 3% were INNOCENT!!!!!!! Back before the appeals process they figure that about 10% of those executed were innocent yet I'm always hearing people screaming the do it in a hurry. How many INNOCENT people is it OK to murder? If we just HAVE to kill a few innocent people why don't we just have a murder lotto and kill the losers. How would you like it is your kid was the loser? It's about the same thing... Lock 'em up and throw away the key! You CAN undo that if you made a mistake.

 

only because lawyers made it cost that much under circumstances where the evidence is positive they still want to go through

a million dollars of appeals and tests and processional witnesses even tough we have prints video and caught the person

with blood and other evidence on them now that is crap legalism.

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it is one thing to say I am going to pull the trigger on an armed person but it is something entirely different when you do that. What if the gun you are carrying is a small .380 w/ 2 inch barrel? It's a fight stopper but trying to take someone out with that gun at say 30 feet isn't a good choice. I have a colt mustang .380 that is not much good past about 10 feet and that is pushing it. Would I try to shoot an armed person in a crowded area with that weapon? NO........ The chance of hitting someone innocent is to great. Now if i was carrying an HK USP .45 then it might be a different story. But once the trigger is pulled there is no stopping the events that follow. A lot of kids in school shootings spend hours on video games shooting every one to level up. They don't know the final outcome of pulling the trigger. the hard criminals are a different bunch . So each situation is going to require some thought. After you have squeezed the trigger then you will have to deal with the police, lawyers, and press. After all of that goes away you still have to deal with your own mind. The oh crap i just took another one's life. something to think about.

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well If I can hit a 2x3 foot target at 235 yards with a 22 pistol I think you can do better than 10 foot with a .380

 

as far as dropping a turd if you worry about that for longer than it takes to drink a cup of coffee, well that's too long.

 

too many people think life is precious well it's not it's only worth what someone else places on it it's more like a sliding scale

 

a convict thinks it's worth whatever is in your pockets your mother would die in your place and you would for your own.

 

I look at it as you did not take a life they threw it away in that aspect it is worth nothing.

 

people over think crap as usual everything has a price and a time limit or trade value the value is what you place on it.

 

and I do not like pricing other peoples sh*t I let them place a value on it and we go from there.

 

In a fight there's no time limit or limit of weapons shooting someone does not mean anything the point is are they stopped?

 

if not keep shooting if that fails to effect the situation out comes the knife if that breaks or gets lost alternative objects

 

then hand to hand head butting ripping off chunks until one of you or all of them are no longer alive or conscience.

 

there is only one rule don't quit.

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Another point to consider (check local laws) is that if you ARE a CCW holder and armed, you are required to defend innocents who are in imminent danger.

 

Another point to consider (check local laws) is that if you ARE a CCW holder and armed, you are required to defend innocents who are in imminent danger.

 

I am not aware of any state that requires a CCW permit holder (armed or otherwise) to defend anyone. Florida certainly does not. Law Enforcement personnel are generally 'required' to follow the laws and engage the bad guys (one way or another) while on duty, but private citizens have no such responsibility.

 

Having said that, if someone starts shooting up the local grocery store while my wife and I are shopping, we are both going to do our level best to end the threat. Tactically speaking, moving through the store with a drawn gun (in search of the bad guy that you do not have LOS on) is a very bad idea. It is highly likely that YOU will be mistaken for the bad guys, by other armed citizens, or arriving LE. Defend your area, but don't go searching for trouble without a very good reason to do so.

 

As far as the forum member who is not confident beyond 10 feet with a Colt Mustang .380, I'd have to say 'take it to your local gunsmith and have it checked'. I currently carry a Ruger LCP in .380, and I have no difficulty in putting all my rounds inside a 3x5 index card at 10 yards, and your pistol should be capable of that as well.

 

On a side note, if you shoot and hit anyone, whether or not they die, and whether or not they were in the middle of committing a crime, you can expect to be arrested and charged. You may be vindicated and have the charges dropped/dismissed, but any LE on scene after a shooting is going to treat you as a potential murderer until investigation proves otherwise. (I speak from experience on this.) Your legal troubles will only be getting started at that point, even if the charges are dropped by an understanding DA/Judge. Expect anyone and everyone who was involved in the shooting to start thinking about suing everyone else involved including a 'hero' who stopped the bad guys.)

 

CCW involves much more than 'which gun, which holster, which clothes'. Understand all of the risks before, during and long after any shooting incident.

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well If I can hit a 2x3 foot target at 235 yards with a 22 pistol I think you can do better than 10 foot with a .380

 

as far as dropping a turd if you worry about that for longer than it takes to drink a cup of coffee, well that's too long.

 

too many people think life is precious well it's not it's only worth what someone else places on it it's more like a sliding scale

 

a convict thinks it's worth whatever is in your pockets your mother would die in your place and you would for your own.

 

I look at it as you did not take a life they threw it away in that aspect it is worth nothing.

 

people over think crap as usual everything has a price and a time limit or trade value the value is what you place on it.

 

and I do not like pricing other peoples sh*t I let them place a value on it and we go from there.

 

In a fight there's no time limit or limit of weapons shooting someone does not mean anything the point is are they stopped?

 

if not keep shooting if that fails to effect the situation out comes the knife if that breaks or gets lost alternative objects

 

then hand to hand head butting ripping off chunks until one of you or all of them are no longer alive or conscience.

 

there is only one rule don't quit.

 

Well said JCMS.

Lets make a couple of things clear.....You must practice enough to hit where you want...if the price of shooting is too high then buy a practice weapon in 22 that closely matches the one you plan to carry....by a couple of bulk boxes of 22 and get to work.

If you have to get involved do as JCMS said ...go all out ....stop only when the bad person is stopped..no longer able to do anything. As a Texas Ranger once said "It is easier when there is only one version of what happened being told to the grand jury".

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this is part of a huge problem with america today. to many people just worried about me, myself, and i.

its a different mentality today than what it was when my mom and dad were alive. most of us were

brought up different back then. we didnt call it charity back then when we helped out other families,

it was just something we did and i still do w/o thinking a second thought about it.

 

Really??!! That is all that you could wrong with my statement? If my wife and your wife were about to die in a house fire together would you really save my wife instead of yours?

Nice sentiments and grand gestures for the masses. Real life sometimes sucks. Are we talking real or make believe? I also believe in helping when I can, but lets be real. You are a fine person and I value your opinion and take no offense at your post. I just find odd in this case.

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I remember when the GOV used children both normal and mentally challenged as guinea pigs for numerous injections of live and

 

dead viruses to see which one worked or failed how many medications have deformed and killed fetuses and children?

 

although older Americas children {young troops} were used in A bomb tests.

 

Agent Orange was a known carcinogen and some were known as extremely flammable and poison.

 

mercuric primers were used and sold until recently in large numbers even though the EPA states Americans cannot make or use them but we import the hell out of all that old Chinese, greek, and Russian and numerous others crap

 

point being your government does not care about anyone only money now it is driven by ideology and still more money

 

Al I can say is I have no problem NOT involving myself I think you misunderstood you ALL OF YOU were ordered by your

commander and chief to leave it to the professionals even if your trained unless your on duty now your a has been and

they don't want you involved either what part of NO do you not understand nor am I going to report anything either,

as I am not informed enough to make a call i will leave it to the pros.

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Really??!! That is all that you could wrong with my statement? If my wife and your wife were about to die in a house fire together would you really save my wife instead of yours?

Nice sentiments and grand gestures for the masses. Real life sometimes sucks. Are we talking real or make believe? I also believe in helping when I can, but lets be real. You are a fine person and I value your opinion and take no offense at your post. I just find odd in this case.

Ill be honest with you....some days I really think that I would pull your wife out first! I had a teacher in school he walked in one day in a unusually good mood and I asked him why, his reply " today I celebrate 5 years of being happily married" I told him I know that he'd been married for a lot longer than that, his reply" oh yeah I've been married for over 25 years but today is 5 years of HAPPILY , a day here and a day there......"

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Ill be honest with you....some days I really think that I would pull your wife out first! I had a teacher in school he walked in one day in a unusually good mood and I asked him why, his reply " today I celebrate 5 years of being happily married" I told him I know that he'd been married for a lot longer than that, his reply" oh yeah I've been married for over 25 years but today is 5 years of HAPPILY , a day here and a day there......"

 

I know that feeling quite well.

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Ill be honest with you....some days I really think that I would pull your wife out first! I had a teacher in school he walked in one day in a unusually good mood and I asked him why, his reply " today I celebrate 5 years of being happily married" I told him I know that he'd been married for a lot longer than that, his reply" oh yeah I've been married for over 25 years but today is 5 years of HAPPILY , a day here and a day there......"

 

I think I married her sister...:P

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I don't mind if they allow teachers and other workers at the school to use their carry permit and if they choose they can

 

I just want a law that prevents the turds family from suing the person and severe laws for any intimidation from the family

 

or friends of said turd that is one thing that has not been delved into is the gang / crazy family member out for vengeance.

 

it is easy to kill someone or beat someone senseless it is quite another to walk the streets after IMO.

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avg_times_active_shooter_zps7ebc18db.jpg

 

Some statistics for you there. I am a firm believer in the saying "those with the ability to act have the responsibility to act." However my willingness to act changes dramatically depending on whose company I am in. If I were on scene when an active shooter massacre began:

 

by myself it would be balls-to-the-wall, all out hunt for the bad guy. I'm a sheepdog and its time to defend the flock.

with like minded friends similar approach but with more people

with my family escape if possible, barricade and set a perimeter if not

 

The bottom line is, regardless of what your plan of action is or what you do or don't do, you're the one who has to look yourself in the mirror after. Regardless of how you act, there will be a legion of Monday Morning Quarterbacks second-guessing the decision of every single person involved. There very well could be litigation as a result of any action or any failure to act on your part. If you act reasonably under the circumstances, you will be fine at the end of the day. If you act in good faith, you will be fine at the end of the day.

 

As my first (and best) boss at my current job told me "do what needs to be done, we'll sort the rest of that $% out later."

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I really do not like upsetting what I feel are really good people in SC

 

I would like for people to think it through before hand and if your forced to or your conscience makes you act at least

 

your not pounced on unexpectedly by the media and D.A.and law enforcement when it happens you may be the hero

 

but if your not or rather either way because you do not know if your getting played keep quiet and let your lawyer do all the

 

talking.

 

Capt Bart talks about texas law shield I think its a VERY good idea if your going to carry in public and have a moral compulsion

 

to help strangers.

 

I don't mind being David against Goliath but now of days too many self righteous police and D.A. or even public sentiment

 

can obscure your legal rights and like zimmerman you could end up in jail {not saying he is right or wrong}

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101matt I can tell by your post as well as others that people do care

 

another response that I have rewritten a few times I will say this everyone over 21 can buy and carry they need to do so.

 

I am not a witness we have seen and been told by lawyers that an normal eye witness is not trained or trustworthy.

 

Judges throw out juries judgements regularly and parole boards ignore victims and release dangerous inmates every day.

 

Our Government sneaks in laws into bill subversively and tries to control your rights to water travel and your own money.

 

I am not defending anyone for any reason unless they come over my fence or get in my face not my problem.

 

No reason on this earth will move or change my mind if someone is drowning to bad if they are getting run over too bad

 

if they are bleeding out just do not get it on my boots I will call 911 that is as far as I go I have been told I was not the ONE.

 

pesident Bush on TV told Americans to let them deal with it and justice would be done that agencies would protect us.

 

LMAO my commander & chief ordered me to not get involved and I damn sure not going to disobey I do not give a sh*t

 

if the world flies apart.

 

YOU WERE TOLD they don't need you they don't want you and you do not understand the intricate and political ramifications.

 

All of the civilian planes were grounded and As Osama bin Ladens family flew out of this country and I am sure others.

 

saved Kuwait and ran Sadams army back home with their tail between their legs and GASOLINE prices TRIPLED?????

 

the Policies since then from both sides have done nothing but dig our grave deeper we have now sent troops into Libya.

 

as if we have not killed enough of our mean & women only to have both Iraq and Afghanistan tell us to get out.

 

And you want me to do what defend idiots, your kidding right I think our government and justice has protected the

 

Criminals the ones to lazy to work, baby factories and illegal aliens that never did a damn thing for this country and

 

yet they get as much as anyone who has worked their azz off up to and including been in the military and have volunteered

 

in their communities, you do realize that is an insult right.

 

They have allowed jobs to go overseas have invested, sold and given TAX CREDITS to companies that are foreign owned

 

over 150 countries get foreign aid with our tax dollars {giving away your money to dictators and corrupt politicians}

 

Does the name Noriega ring a bell how many of our men died to fix that problem and numerous others..

 

35,00 gangs here and our border is wide open drug cartels are running dope across it like it's a multi lane freeway

 

Killing and kidnapping people on this side of the border killing our police and nothing is getting done OH yes there is

 

If you think Social security is in trouble now wait until this new road to citizenship happens 12 million additional

 

people on the ride {more like double that number} and we are going to crash and burn.

 

I am here to share what little I know and some opinions and your not about to get burned your getting sold out

 

fannie mae and freddie mac hold paper on 90+% of all homes with a mortgage if we go broke what happens to your home?

 

with the added burden of 12 million ++++ do you think your hospital will be solvent or able to help you, and that border

 

is wide open LOL.

 

your replacements are here like a tick on a kitten not enough blood for too many of them and poor kitty will die.

 

so all these sheeple better get it together because I am not going to do anything for them period and because I

 

cannot read minds or know what side someone is on I am not going to judge I have been told that is P.C.

 

No I am afraid your all on your own, sign all the petitions you want cry to your representatives and they will make a deal to

 

undo your rights supposedly guaranteed by the constitution.

 

I get a better guarantee from wal mart on a Chinese piece of crap.

 

I can and will sit and watch my conscience is clear it is not my party I was not invited in fact I was excluded and because I

 

was in the military I am deemed a problem child now really a child that is how they are treating us.

 

they and anyone else need not ask me for anything if they are such hot sh*t let them work it out for themselves.

 

 

Snake,

Thanks for these true words. I am with you. Thats today's reality..........prepare or suffer!

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