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Dangerwolfe

Home Defense Tactics - Pistols and Shotguns

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Hi Folks,

 

Since this info is more about tactics than specific weapons I'm putting it here, but I suggest we open a new forum called Defense Tactics.

 

In any case, I think this guy's advice makes a lot of sense on defending your home from the inside:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6qE0pDlb40

 

That said, I plan to work with a group and run patrols in the area so we know a threat is on it's way long before they get to our front door....

 

Wolfe

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blah blah blah entering any place you need to be in condition yellow either to help a person exiting or not to be knocked dowm

I am wary of banks and small business as they are targets for robbers etc.

 

home invasions are the home owners fault not good enough hardware or glass laminate to prevent crashing through

never open a door unless you know who is on the other side PERIOD.

I have a 4 way viewer I can see at a distance it due to its large aperture a turn of the eyepiece you can see the door mat

left right forward.

a 2 dollar door clip stops the door from being pushed in or a door pin in the floor within inches of the edge of the door.

{acts like a spring} I have posted about this too many times already.

never go looking for a fight let them come to you especially if you think there is going to be a hostage situation.

hiding under a bed is great if your armed blow off a foot and when they hit the ground finish it. if there are others that come running they will rush in looking at eye level targets you have a slight advantage.

houses are ok for defense because if it is yours you know it and the visitors do not but even if your a pro they get shot too

so this guy has some info but I can see by his appearance that he is not in top physical condition so I would take it with a grain of

salt.

 

you can train until dooms day but when the blood starts flowing you may act out your training but that may not be enough

people die in the best circumstances if it is a family member will you be able to focus considering that others count on you

or will you crater and do something foolish.

The military and police view is not a view you can always accept they figure on losses, they hope their training will

prevent it from being theirs military considers there will be losses police figure losses will be the bad guys but a

bit of collateral damage is not a bad ending as long as they do not screw it up so bad they get the blame.

or if they got a hero to throw at the reporters {like a smoke screen}.

I have read a lot of reports and if there were more than one and they read the same they were bogus if they had

common little differences then the time line becomes important who what when where how .

 

some stories are embellished for public consumption making it sound worse than it could ever be or to the extreme

downplaying it so not to scare the snot out of the community like when they find a WWII practice bomb

call out the squad and go and blow in at the disposal site then release a story that it was a dud or had been neutralized

or taken to a safe place any could be true or was it an old war ash tray you will never know.

 

You cannot defend a house f there are enough forces against it I give you as an example the Alamo

the building the black panthers held up in and the cops dropped a satchel charge on it from a chopper

and Kaboom no building Waco ruby ridge blah blah no situation is clear police use intel and observers

to access the situation and you will be flying by the seat of your pants blind as a bat.

 

beware of armchair anyone they can quote you bible and verse but that does not mean they know CPR

when the sh*t goes bad do know if you cock a gun in a room you may as well kick over the lamp

some safeties are not quiet then if you have done everything right fate can step in and it all goes to hell.

 

This guy spoke about the denial of entry way using a shotgun well a shotgun up close has a bigger hole but it will not

open up in pattern in a normal size house so it is still down to accuracy.

 

there are no easy answers practice with a lot of variation and hone your accuracy and speed be confident with your

equipment and pray a lot.

 

shoot left hand right hand or as you prefer strong and weak hand from all positions standing Isosceles semi crouch

prone rolling prone learn to use barriers and understand they need to be a real barrier sheet rock and a door frame

give you nothing but false sense of security like a teddy bear but if it's all you got to hang your hat on go for it.

if you look for the perfect safety your not keeping an eye on the players and end up in a cross fire or get so myopic

you do not see them circle you because your too close to your barrier and lost track of your target.

 

In a fight the only thing that matters is winning if you loose you probably wont know it so do not fixate on that

sometimes dead men win if your ambition was to save some one and you die after your still the winner just not going to the

victory dance.you cannot fear and function that is why training makes people do what they normally would not they are so

focused on the duty they cannot focus on the fear.

adrenalin has many effects fire to early shakes better after than during and tunnel vision and hearing distortion time lag

shock, disassociation, over aggressiveness or command failure complex {cannot make a decision}

the one I like is the lame dog disorder barks orders but does not use their weapon some how this personality thinks they are making a difference by yelling orders when the group already knows the task but reduces the firepower of the unit thinking their words create the action.or have some control over the outcome.

 

how ever many members you have in a unit or family that is how many weak links you have every person has a failing

heat cold hunger A.D.D. lack of control overly controlling head running or anxiety paralysis vocal or physical fear of fire water

smoke or regular anxiety grief lazy hard to wake sleeps to hard or falls asleep if sedentary week ankles bad feet

always hearing sh*t can't hear sh*t no sense of direction stress memory dysfunction {can't remember sh*t when the heats on}

fear of heights claustrophobia agoraphobia on and on and there is a book about it 6 inches thick on just phobias and

their outward and inward signs negative and positive metal effects blah blah blah....

 

Personally I figure were either going to make it or not, it is what it is, shoot the damn dice or pass them.

History is written by the winners and embellished by them if the looser writes a book it only looks like

whining or the only if factor.

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Snake,

Not all invasions are the homeowners fault. Sometimes it is the LEO kicking down your door at oh-dark-thirty. That is a personal nightmare of mine but with the advent of "SWATting" (reporting 'armed and dangerous' folks to the LEO to get a SWAT team to your house - what fun for the jerks making the call), WiFi (happened north of here but fortunately the LEO came in daylight and everyone was cool - the neighbor was arrested for the child porn, not the homeowner), and the increasing popularity of the 'no knock' entries is just scary. Other than that, I pretty much agree. People don't believe you can miss with a shotgun but you absolutely can - a bad thing to learn when playing 'you bet your life'.

If it comes down to MZB kinds of threats, fire is the ultimate take down on a modern home as Waco clearly demonstrated. If the BGs can get a bottle of flaming gasoline on my roof, I'm done (figuratively if not literally) in that location. The day before Constantinople became Istanbul the Eastern Roman Empire learned that the fortress has not been made that can't be cracked. Jerusalem learned it in 72 AD and Troy learned it before that and we've demonstrated it right up to the present. Hitler's "Fortress Europe" lasted how long? Very few of us can stop an M1 tank or even an up armored Hum Vee for that matter. If they want you bad enough, then your home can not be defended. The trick is to defend against those you CAN defend against, run from those you CAN NOT defend against, and be HONEST enough with yourself to know the difference.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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My home invasion plan if it happens while i'm asleep.......................I have a good alarm system since I am a security licensed guy..............if someone kicks in the door I have a dresser that can be tilted over to block entrance temporarily while I retreat with my weapon. At this point I will retreat to the very large closet and call 911. That way if it's a swat mistake no one gets hurt from the original "bust in". If they say "Police" I will phone verify. I only go through this to avoid shooting someone that may be innocent. If they start shooting through the walls I have a protected area (not against every weapon). The loud alarm will probably turn them away but if not I can and will defend myself from there. If there is no time for the dresser drop than three shot bursts with an extra clip at arms length. I sleep good

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Snake,

Not all invasions are the homeowners fault. Sometimes it is the LEO kicking down your door at oh-dark-thirty. That is a personal nightmare of mine but with the advent of "SWATting" (reporting 'armed and dangerous' folks to the LEO to get a SWAT team to your house - what fun for the jerks making the call), WiFi (happened north of here but fortunately the LEO came in daylight and everyone was cool - the neighbor was arrested for the child porn, not the homeowner), and the increasing popularity of the 'no knock' entries is just scary. Other than that, I pretty much agree. People don't believe you can miss with a shotgun but you absolutely can - a bad thing to learn when playing 'you bet your life'.

If it comes down to MZB kinds of threats, fire is the ultimate take down on a modern home as Waco clearly demonstrated. If the BGs can get a bottle of flaming gasoline on my roof, I'm done (figuratively if not literally) in that location. The day before Constantinople became Istanbul the Eastern Roman Empire learned that the fortress has not been made that can't be cracked. Jerusalem learned it in 72 AD and Troy learned it before that and we've demonstrated it right up to the present. Hitler's "Fortress Europe" lasted how long? Very few of us can stop an M1 tank or even an up armored Hum Vee for that matter. If they want you bad enough, then your home can not be defended. The trick is to defend against those you CAN defend against, run from those you CAN NOT defend against, and be HONEST enough with yourself to know the difference.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

love your historic perspectives and I did not consider the LEO scenario {only because some where in my mind I do not like to see the LEO's as the bad guys or wrong I want them to be better than they are or the best they can be}

and yes the, "advancing in a different direction"'{Douglas MacArthur quote} is honorable course of action and can turn into a tactical advantage.

 

On armor I am one who can but the problem is in the applying and retreating there is always a hurdle.

might be a one way ticket then there are times where it presence is so unacceptable you have too.

 

I try to give the visual of a bunker as an egg to anyone who sees it they are struck by the thought it has food or sustenance

inside and want to crack it.

 

your opinions are gold Capt.

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"...home invasions are the home owners fault..."

 

This is kinda like saying, for example, that your car getting door dinged in a parking lot is your own fault for picking that parking spot, or for owning a car in the first place. If I may be frank, this is nonsensical and unrealistic.

 

Any home - and I do mean *any* home, regardless of how remote and hardened it is - can be cracked given enough time and effort. Should you consider hardening your home to prevent intrusion? Definitely. Should you be able to respond (training + armament + healthy dose of luck = effective response) if you're in the home when someone makes it through? As before, definitely. Should everyone who lives in your home be aware that home invasions can occur, and be ready to respond if necessary? Of course. But all of these things, given enough pressure, or just bad timing/luck can bring it all down.

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If you are looking to widen the pattern of your shotgun check out this site.... http://www.paradigmsrp.com/our-products/gator-shotgun-spreader/ It is different from the early style I remember but looks to accomplish the same goal. Be sure to note the requirements .... #4 buck or smaller and No slugs. As for spreading the shot over a larger area that would best be done with specialty wads designed for opening the pattern ... keeping in mind that this approach increases the diameter of the shot field where as the spreader device widens the pattern while reducing the vertical dimension. Think of the difference between inflating a balloon and flattening a marshmallow.

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Just to help you sleep tonight: 2 days ago the Houston PD showed up at a man's house and started a forceable entry, lights on in the street. The homeowner, hearing the noise grabbed his gun and went to investigate. The HPD "feared for their safety" (so sayeth the spokesman) and killed the homeowner. The warrant was for the house across the street. They had the WRONG BLOODY HOUSE and a man trying to protect his wife is now dead. SOOOOOO sorry. Mistakes happen and times are unsettled. This I know but I also know that if this had happened in Iraq or Afghanistan and these were GI's, there would be courts martial. I do not understand those who do not understand why I do not trust the government.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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Yeah, I saw that Capt............as much of a bad tragedy as that was I don't believe i'd go out and raise my garage door with a pistol in my hand (in this neighborhood). Hindsight is 20/20 but I do believe the police should have called out Police from a distance and this guy could have stood down. Just my opinion

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I think that assuming we have the skills necessary to self-clear our own home is damn foolish. IN my past professional career, I had to clear many many unknown buildings and homes, and while we NEVER had an accident, we had close calls.

I do not see ANY value in teaching a civilian HOW to "clear" a residence. While it may well be "tacti-cool" at shooting schools, it is in my PERSONAL opinion, damn foolish.

It is far better to stay put and allow the suspects to come to you, then you can ambush them in a fatal funnel of YOUR choosing, YOUR time, instead of theirs.

Oh, there are plenty of coulda, woulda, shoulda scenarios out there, NONE of them are going to happen to any of us. OUR threats will be ours alone, and NO instructor, is going to share those threats, share the consequences nor the aftermath with US. Just something to seriously consider. I'm no coward, but I'm not stupid either. If you really WANT to "clear"

your home, against unknown threats, knock yourself out, it is entirely on you alone. You alone will be the consequences positive or negative of your own actions. No one else will be there to "help".

What is wrong with waiting in an area you know, has no imminent threat to you, to wait for the threat to come to you?

For the record, MOST "burglaries" occur in the daytime between the hours of 0800-1500 anyway, when the kids are in school. Home invasions are indeed RARE, statistically, and if you are not involved with the production sale or distribution of controlled substances, equally rare. Hope this helps someone.

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You are 100% correct TPS, and that's exactly what i'd do unless there was a better option at the time. Hard to think of what that might be though

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TPSnodgrass

 

good information for people to know / understand.

 

I have an inside dog and an outside dog a dual perimeter fence and they are pad locked when I leave

 

my first warning is my yard dog if he does not meet me I will wonder why second is the inside dog if I do not hear

 

him trying to tear down the door to get out I know there is a problem.

 

there is a mirror and I can see the back door / area my neighbor has 4 dogs and they raise hell if anyone is near.

 

I have left and made a loop and have returned just to change up / break habits I try not to do anything on a regular

 

schedule.

 

this is almost impossible for a working family with children so you need to have or use a security system children are seldom

 

aware of their surroundings hey kids are kids having fun thinking about everything but the moment and a system

 

would help to keep them from entering a home while an intruder was present.

 

I would have a safe for firearms bolted to the wall and floor in a corner of a closet that restricts the use of a pry bar

 

even a cheap safe can be enhanced by the use of cable woven through the safe through trigger guards and pad locked on

 

the out side or rerun into the inside even if the door is open the arms are still connected to the box I have used hole punch

 

or a hole drill to make the extra holes plastic coated cables and decent locks.

 

criminals are afraid of time the longer it takes to rob a home the more uncomfortable they get eventually they cut and run.

 

so anything that make it difficult and time consuming is a good thing multi pane windows long throw dead bolt locks

 

metal doors if you have a entry to your wood door a gated area done well looks like a architectural feature.

 

or a simple square tubing metal gate / storm door.

 

I understand the resistance to some ideas but considering the cost of your deductible and uninsured items it is a

 

upfront cost but the kicker is if you have had a successful burglary chances are it will happen again and probably

 

by the same people, and they figure in a moth or 2 you will replace what was taken and so if you have not changed anything

 

they will try again my friend has had her home burglarized a half dozen times until we made some changes in a remodel.

 

now it is much better and she has gotten a system also.

 

even if you have a system an attempted break in can cost you a broken door is not cheap nor are good windows.

 

We do the best we can and put our faith in God at least that is what I do.

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Danm!!! THAT is why I don't live in Houston!!! You know, I don't even know where my front door house key IS. I haven't locked my door in 10 years. If I'm not home, why make them tear up my door. If I'm home...well I like moving targets and always need the practice. When you live in the woods you develop other points of view I guess. If they get in my house I have an eight shot Mossberg 500 defender with a collapsing pistol gripped stock and a 900 lumen strobe/focused light on the barrel over my bed for them.

 

I just refuse to live in fear or even worry very much about such crud. Why would I want to mess up my present worrying about something in the future that might never happen? Prepare then move on without fear. Enjoy today; tomorrow is just a pipe dream and yesterday is just in your imagination and memory.

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Just to help you sleep tonight: 2 days ago the Houston PD showed up at a man's house and started a forceable entry, lights on in the street. The homeowner, hearing the noise grabbed his gun and went to investigate. The HPD "feared for their safety" (so sayeth the spokesman) and killed the homeowner. The warrant was for the house across the street. They had the WRONG BLOODY HOUSE and a man trying to protect his wife is now dead. SOOOOOO sorry. Mistakes happen and times are unsettled. This I know but I also know that if this had happened in Iraq or Afghanistan and these were GI's, there would be courts martial. I do not understand those who do not understand why I do not trust the government.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

Everyone should write the papers and the mayor asking when the trial will be......force the issue.....stupid should cost something. Getting the location wrong in this day is beyond stupid.

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You are 100% correct TPS, and that's exactly what i'd do unless there was a better option at the time. Hard to think of what that might be though

 

I second that....told the wife that if she ever hears something that sound like someone breaking in to shut the bed room door grab the shotgun and get her #$@% down by the corner of the bed and aim for the door .... if the knob turns shout the police are on the way and I will shoot if you start in here.... vision systems with recording capability are useful to allow one to collect evidence and or locate bad guys but it is safer to let the paid help take care of them if possible. If not possible remember rule one....things go better at the grand jury hearing when there is only one version of what happened.

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Clearing a house? I know of no professional who would undertake to clear a house solo. I've cleared a few houses but always with a team to watch my back and to cover me if I get incredibly unlucky. In my own home, we have a defense plan but it does NOT include me clearing the house/grounds solo.

 

Just my not so humble opinion of course.

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Danm!!! THAT is why I don't live in Houston!!! You know, I don't even know where my front door house key IS. I haven't locked my door in 10 years. If I'm not home, why make them tear up my door. If I'm home...well I like moving targets and always need the practice. When you live in the woods you develop other points of view I guess. If they get in my house I have an eight shot Mossberg 500 defender with a collapsing pistol gripped stock and a 900 lumen strobe/focused light on the barrel over my bed for them.

 

I just refuse to live in fear or even worry very much about such crud. Why would I want to mess up my present worrying about something in the future that might never happen? Prepare then move on without fear. Enjoy today; tomorrow is just a pipe dream and yesterday is just in your imagination and memory.

 

This is outside houston by 40 miles Crack and Meth have made it open season some towns no where near a large city

 

have confronted this very problem so it is not where you live is it if the problem roosts in your area some areas are very useful

 

for "cooks" and chemists counties with low population and complacent or confederates of gangs and groups.

 

I never worry but I have insurance, there are no mountains but I have climbing gear and rope, Trees are not a problem but I have

a chainsaw, my tires are new but I have a spare and a jack,

 

You may not lock your door but as this drug problem seeps into the country and it will so will crime.

 

one movie was, "In cold blood" this family was targeted in a rural town by a criminal who was trying to show he had

 

inside knowledge of a stash in this case money the family were all killed even though this at the time was a rare event

 

it is not any more in my mind it matters not where you live when I was young my father shot a man who had a wreck

 

in front of our house he was a criminal on the run rolled his vehicle in the ditch and as he came out he had a pistol

 

he told him to throw it he pointed it and my old mans gun fired the driver did not die but he was tried and convicted of

 

stealing the car he was in and for a few crimes he ran from.

 

Another incident an old man had a store he was robbed and killed by a man from another state driving through he was

 

driving the back roads when he found the store as he told it he went in and killed the old man before the door shut behind him.

 

robed the register and left he was found by using a road block system as he approached he tried to do a 180 and was run down

 

and shot.

 

neither of these people were from the area and were looking for a victim or a vehicle or a dry place money it makes no difference

 

people died and it was like lighting from a clear blue sky it happens if you choose not to have a door lock not my business

 

and I am not saying what you should do but too much thinking by people has gotten them killed I do not foster it I try to have

 

people consider the worst and plan for it, I would hate to think I was responsible for making people think that because they live

 

in a rural area they are safe.

 

my house or any home I have lived in has never burned nor has had much damage from storms etc BUT I still pay for insurance.

 

and I don't live in fear nor should anyone else I have lived and worked all over and country does not mean friendly or

 

without crime all it means to me is I can take a wizz in my yard and not have an audience.

 

If you don't live in fear then I take it you go unarmed people that have faith in the police and their security don't carry

 

and think those that do are redneck or crazy like the model that was gunned down by a stalker in Hollyweird on her front steps.

 

she had a security system had called the police and made a report and even filed for a proximity / peace bond.

 

she is still dead as moses.

 

of your not afraid then you carry a pen knife and not a BLADE as a gentleman does not carry weapons about their person.

 

and unless the activity requires it you only carry a pen knife to open letters and boxes and clean your nails.

 

and yesterday is not my imagination I have a tattoo to prove it and I know many in prison that will never get out because

 

some yesterday they did something that will never go away and will die in prison.

 

tomorrow must have some value as so many bank on and plan for it blueprints stocks and bonds wills titles deeds buying selling

 

if there is no concern then we don't need to bother with any of that as it is all a pipe dream I am sure that is T. Boon Pickens

 

Donald Trump, and all those people who go to colleges, philosophy, "to hell with tomorrow"

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Meth labs are like mushrooms. They pop up anywhere that has enough poop to feed them. The ones around here are pretty low profile as are the people that run them. They do indeed exist but they want to make their stuff and move it down the road to Houston.

 

Let me tell you, criminal types just DON'T want to go to trial here. A guy got life a few years ago for spitting on a guard. He had AIDS and thought he could give it by spitting so BAM Attempted murder! When EVERYONE either works in the prison or for those that work there it makes for a VERY law and order sort of jury. As far as they are concerned this entire county is just INFESTED with cops of one kind or another. LOL. They ARE pretty close to right...

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OH YEA lived in humble at least 30+ different departments in or around that area.

 

and still we got crime drugs and murder so I guess they are doing their jobs to what ends I have no clue.

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jesus, you twits are paranoid.  I'd bet good money that you're slow as molasses with the ccw draw and have no hand to hand ability at all. What makes you 'think" that the attack will be while you're in your bedroom? it's many times more likely when you're not at home, or, if at home, as you mow the yard, walk the critters, get your mail, take out the garbage,  etc.

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you are many times more likely to not GET to any longarm in time than you are for your ccw pistol to not suffice. Most of the time, they flee at the sight of your gun, and misses have changed a lot of minds, too. If you have the 10 seconds or so to run and get any gun, why not just charge the guy and rip off his head?  What makes you think that you wont be getting shot in the back 4x per second as you try to do this?

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