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Mike Uher

Bov???

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Can go better, the same govliquidation site I purchased my M1009 from I got a spare brand new engine in the crate for $175 I suggest you stay with the hybrid 24/12 volt system it was designed EMP hardened and the heavier 24 volt starter is much more durable but all of your lighting and glow plugs are 12 volt and the fuse box gives you two 12 volt ignition on and one 12 and 24 volt contant on open ports for excessories I have also bought an M-101a2 3/4 ton and an M-105a2 1.5 ton heavy duty off road capable trailers to go with it total for the 2 trailer $517 they came with new tarps and tires in very good condition so for $3000 I have got a heavy duty off road 4x4 two trailers with heavy duty tarp covers and a spare 6.2 detroit diesel engine if you can show me better I would love to know about it and I have 6 MOS's one of them is a 91L Combat Engineer Equipment Mechanic with my ASE Medium Heavy Truck Master Certs to top it off you can really do a lot in 19.5 Years God I am getting old

Edited by warrior7r

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First,rick i agree about the kayak,Im a canoe person myself.Second..warrior7r..Im an OLD Combat Engineer myself(Fort lost in the woods 1972 "summer") so I fully understand the need and do agree with you 100persent..(Yes I wanted a 5 ton badley that I saw while i was surfing.I do remembering driving the Auto baun it was a good time.82 Combat Engineers Bamberg Germany,patroling the Check border,trained with the German Army in mine disposel,that was fun .)and Im inspired with your ability to find great stuff and tell others,its a refreshing thing to see Younger men take on these Issues.When money is avaliable I will seek you out.Have you ever thought of being a purchase manager?? Thanks for information on the 24/12 volt..my consern was with recharging tools that are 12volt..Tools make the man .Keep up the good work .Fire in the Hole brother. Matt :}

Edited by 101matt

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Great website! I now know what I'll be doing for the next few hours. Also looks like it would be a good place to find something to use as a BOL shelter. I remember a thread someone started asking about using shipping crates as BOL storage. Seems like there are a lot of good and cheap options on the website.

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If I was a single guy I would say I BOV would be a bicycle or mountain bike because you would not have to deal with fuel and it is much more versitle and easy to get around. Since I have a family, I would want something that has four wheel drive but nothing too crazy, the more common the vehicle the easier swapping parts would be, some kind of truck probably.

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thought I would point something out, I see comments on cars, trucks, suvs, vans and even some on bicycles and kayaks but why no motorcycles? motorcycles don't use that much gas and if its a dirt bike can't you very easily take that off road? furthermore wouldn't you also be able to bypass a lot of the traffic one might encounter in a mass exodus? (i.e. using highway shoulders and splitting lanes) clearly you wouldn't be able to carry that much but and it would be a solo trip unless you have more bikes but isn't that a decent trade off? unless you guys know something i don't

 

by the way i don't have a dirt bike or motorcycle just a ford ranger that will more than likely become my BOV

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Ok here is what I have for a BOV.....1977 CJ5 Jeep.....brand new rebuilt 304 engine and rebuilt 4 speed transmission......3 inch lift kit for serious off roading........i have been working on this project for some time now....i picked this vehicle for a number of reasons....(1) it's a jeep and jeeps has a history of being tough and taking a beating and still preform well....(2) it open and has 4 seats...makes for a good scout vehicle also......(3) it has a roll bar that if you needed to you could mount some kind of gun mount on it......(4) It get great gas mileage and I can carry 10 to 20 gallons of extra fuel on the rear bumper.....I have also made a rear carry platform that attached to the rear bumper that can be used to carry extra things like a few military footlocker's that are stocked with items suchs as extra ammo.....MRE"s.....summer and winter clothing.....and other items.....I guess you could call it my rolling BOB.....

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thought I would point something out, I see comments on cars, trucks, suvs, vans and even some on bicycles and kayaks but why no motorcycles? motorcycles don't use that much gas and if its a dirt bike can't you very easily take that off road? furthermore wouldn't you also be able to bypass a lot of the traffic one might encounter in a mass exodus? (i.e. using highway shoulders and splitting lanes) clearly you wouldn't be able to carry that much but and it would be a solo trip unless you have more bikes but isn't that a decent trade off? unless you guys know something i don't

 

by the way i don't have a dirt bike or motorcycle just a ford ranger that will more than likely become my BOV

 

hey stew,

enduro type bikes would be the cats azz for a BOV or for after you get to your BOL in my opinion.

would love to have a couple.

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I've owned dirt bikes they're not a bad idea for a solo BOV. They will get you around the traffic jams but (there's always a but). Taking one off road without plenty of experiance could leave you in a world of hurt. Using them when you get to your BOL may not be a good idea. Even factory mufflers are noisy and u dont want to draw attention to your BOL.

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Agree with silverwolf dirt bikes are good but there's a bit of a learning curve. But there are also classes that will teach you all about how to use your front breaks and not fly over the bars. If you can invest the time in learning it's an affordable BOV option.

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I think it is great to talk about what we want to use in the event of a bug out, but we might not always be able to get back to our true BOV and have to make due with "run what ya brung". Right now my wife drives a Altima and I have a Dodge 1500 Quad cab so if things happen, I HOPE we are both in the same place with the truck as it is what I feel more prepared to use if need be, the Altima, well you make due with what you have. I am currently looking for a second gen 4Runner which I will end up making our primary go-to BOV as I want to use it as a weekend offroader as well. I had thought about the Military GMC's and I am not completely ruling them out but just not sold on them. I like a truck because even though you might have some limitations in what you carry inside it, the ability to haul a trailer or mount bikes racks is a bonus.

Edited by rflood
Forgot something...

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Not as an exclusive bov, but More as an addition to when/if roads get impassible. I've been thinking/looking along these lines for long term use/gas crisis and the best I have found is a bike made for Africa- 55#, made of 16 gauge steel, 220# carrying capacity rear rack, built for 5+yr maintenance free use. BUT have not been able to locate any as they are currently strictly the domain of the World Bicycle Relief org...

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1977 CJ5 Jeep.....brand new rebuilt 304 engine and rebuilt 4 speed transmission......3 inch lift kit for serious off roading..

 

Ruger92,

just a question and my input before you get a chance to answer. Whats is the point of your lift kit? If it is for Ground Clearance do not waste your time or money because all you will do is shift the vehicles center of gravity and not be able to clear larger obsticles than you could before the lift. Now if you are just going for the large look have fun.The lift does nothing to allow your vehicle to clear an obsticle as your axle and differential will still be at the same height as before the lift if your looking for ground clearance you have two options increase the size of your tires which also seriously affects your fuel consumption or rip out your current suspension, axles and diffs and put an entirely custom suspension, a final drive similar to a hmmwv or one of the newer SUV's however realize with that pricey conversion comes a trade off that is it is very maintenance intensive and more fragile. The 77 CJ5 will take up to 36" tires with out a lift kit or cutting and with out altering your center of gravity which would make the CJ which is already rollover prone even more unstable and giving you about 15 inches of clearance if you want bigger than 36" tires cut out the fender any body shop can do it and make it look good, and you can go up to 46", leave the lift for 46" tires or more and then you are entering the moster truck zone.

Edited by warrior7r

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first i will start will the four bikes i can carry on my suvs. all have same size tires. Tubes are Kevlar reinforced and each bike has a small repair tool/kit and hand air pump. Eight tires and 12 tubes as spares. all equipped with all important new york bike lock and chain. Each SUV is capable of the job needed. Nondescript civilian vehicles will dark widows and 500 mile range on full tank providing traffic is moving.

next vehicle purchase will be ford f150 four door 4x4 with v6 ecoboost. add a fab four front and rear bumper.

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Currently my BOV is a 1999 F-150 4x4 with extended cab. I’ve done nothing special to it because it was meant to help transport all of the goods and supplies needed for an extended period of time to the family retreat/refuge in Eastern Kentucky. Now that that task is essentially completed the truck is ready to transport the family and last minute items to the site.

 

Over the years I have been preparing for what I thought would be a worst case scenario. The premise being to be over-prepared rather than be under-prepared. Up until recently I thought that event would be the catastrophic crashing of the financial market. After reading James Wesley Rawles’ novel “Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse” and Nova’s fictional series “American Apocalypse” I thought that I was preparing properly. However, since reading the novel “One Second After” by William R. Forstchen and the non-fiction treatise by Larry Poole entitled “EMP Survival: How to Prepare and Survive, When an Electromagnetic Pulse Destroys Our Power Grid” I have begun making adjustments to my preparations.

 

With the capturing by Iran of the fully functional Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel drone (the Beast of Kandahar) and the inevitable negotiations with Iran by China and Russia for access to its technology it appears that a strike of some sort against the USA might be in our not too distant future. Although I don’t see China trading a nuke for the drone I do see cash-strapped Russia doing that, and probably more than one nuke. Three simultaneously launched nukes off barges in Narragansett Bay, Galveston Bay, and San Francisco Bay to an altitude of 25 – 30 miles and detonated would knock out our Grid and transport our great country back 250 years immediately.

 

With this in mind I probably have the wrong BOV. Maybe Warrior7r can help with this next question (assuming he is reading this rather lengthy rambling from an old salt): Is there anything I can do to “harden” my F-150 short of building a huge Faraday cage around it? If not, is there anyone out there who has given thought of an EMP-proof BOV?

 

Thanks and fair winds.

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I've got two ideas for my BOV. The first is to haul the family. It has to be a full-sized van like a Ford E-series, or perhaps a cube truck (but most likely a van, as a cube truck might be a target for looting). I would also have bikes on the roof or inside in case there was a traffic jam. Secondary BOV's are Jeep Wranglers.

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Capt Rob,

As to the Question has anyboby given thought to an EMP hardened vehicle I have and own one. As to you primary qustion about your existing vehicle the answer is a double edged sword. My responce will be a little long winded also. Studies have shown modern vehicles can survive an EMP blast what the studies do not state is that all the electonics required replacing before the vehicle could be operated again and in about 25% the wiring also had to be replaced the main question is how much do you love your gas operated vehicle, hardening it short of parking it in a large Faraday Cage is very, very costly. If you want to keep the vehicle and do it more cheaply, though it is still expensive, convert it to a non electronic heavy duty diesel the following is a report from a company contracted by Uncle to evaluate and harden the U.S.'s fleets and it details the modern gas and hybrid vehicles vulnerabilities.

 

EMP Mitigation - Protecting Land Mobile

Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment

Mark Hendricks, Engineering Program Manager

Transtector | PolyPhaser, Protection Technology Group

Publication Date: 02/2011

1474-001 RevA

EMP Mitigation | Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment 2

These commodities or technology are exported from the U.S. in

accordance with the Export Administration Regulations.

Diversion contrary to U.S. law prohibited.

Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment

Abstract

This paper discusses the possibility, requirements and necessary steps to protect land mobile vehicles

from the effects of an electromagnetic pulse event to ensure continuous mobility of the vehicle. While this

discussion applies to civilian and military vehicles alike, the defense industry’s recognition of a general

EMP (electromagnetic pulse) / HEMP (high-altitude electromagnetic pulse) threat has long resulted in

the establishment of military standards that set requirements for effective EMI/EMP hardening of critical

defense systems. As such, the applicable military standards MIL-STD-188-125 and MIL-STD-464 are

being referenced in this discussion.

Introduction

The realistic threat of an Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) or High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP)

event – natural or man-made has been widely recognized by several government related agencies

such as the U.S. Congressional EMP Commission, the Defense Nuclear Agency or the Defense Threat

Reduction Agency. Potential long-term disruptive effects on our society have also been acknowledged and

protective and counter measures are being increasingly implemented. While most hardening efforts focus

on mission critical electronics, mainly meaning C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computer,

and Intelligence) systems, protecting continuous mobility has attracted heightened attention as well.

From a theoretical standpoint, the very simple condition that would provide complete EMP protection

to land mobile vehicles is to park all critical and vulnerable assets in a suitable metallic box or EMC

(electromagnetic compatibility) tight chamber, also referred to as Faraday shield. At this point, doing

so would translate into parking the entire vehicle in an EMC shielded garage. However, even though

transistor driven radio, power and control electronics deployed in modern day civilian and military vehicles

are highly vulnerable to electromagnetic damage, C4I equipment can obviously not be parked in an

EMC tight chamber while effectively performing operations. Quite contrary, it is often deployed in harsh

environments, possibly during critical civil defense or disaster scenarios where failing is not an option. In

addition, continuous mobility of the vehicle itself is most likely of critical importance to mission success.

Transtector and PolyPhaser offer a wide range of products to effectively protect the C4I systems deployed

in these vehicles. This article, however, is intended to open discussions about the challenges of protecting

land mobile vehicles from the effects of the EMP/HEMP threat environment for the purpose of retaining

mobility.

Design Requirements

Any discussion about the protection of land mobile vehicles from HEMP effects should consider the

guidelines set by applicable military standards, in this case MIL-STD-188-125 class of standards as

well as MIL-STD-464. The MIL-STD-188-125 class of standards establishes minimum requirements

and design objectives for EMP/HEMP hardening of fixed and transportable ground-based systems. It

is further amended by Appendix A for Shielding Effectiveness, Appendix B for Pulse Current Injection

and Appendix C for Continuous Wave Immersion. MIL-STD- 464, on the other hand, provides basic

requirements for electromagnetic environmental effects (E3) considerations for Department of Defense

Systems. Its primary intent is to provide guidance and test methods for electromagnetic threats at the

system level.

3

1474-001 RevA

These commodities or technology are exported from the U.S. in

accordance with the Export Administration Regulations.

Diversion contrary to U.S. law prohibited.

While facilities and systems required to fully comply with these provisions are generally designated by

the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a Military Department Headquarter or a Major Command, these guidelines set

design standards that should be considered for any effective EMP/HEMP hardening effort of any system.

In addition to previously mentioned MIL standards, various IEEE, IEC, and NATO standards identify

testing and hardening requirements as well. These should also be understood and strictly adhered to

in order to construct and maintain protection enclosures and surge-filter systems that successfully repel

natural or intentional EMP threat events.

For a land mobile vehicle, testing according to the MIL-STD-188-125 class of standards generally boils

down to examining the shielding effectiveness1 and pulse current injection response of the system2.

These tests validate the electrical shielding and surge mitigation integrity of the system.

Figure 1: The basic premise of shielded enclosures and screened environments is to create “Faraday Cages” at each separate

subsystem with filters applied at all point of entry (POE) for cable runs between enclosed regions.

Keeping all applicable military and commercial standards in mind, effective hardening of system

components requires adherence to the following three basic design practices:

(Illustrated in Figure 1)

▪▪ Construction of Faraday shield environments (EMI tight boxes) around all critical systems

▪▪ Bounding of all metallic structures to a single point ground system

▪▪ Surge-filter protection of all entry/egress points that provide electronic connections between these

shielded environments

Analysis of EMP Vulnerable Parts and Application of EMP Hardening Design Principles

To meet our objective of keeping the vehicle moving through an EMP assault, we will first have to look at

an analysis of the electrical system to determine which components are sensitive to damage and should

therefore be placed into a Faraday shield environment.

EMP Mitigation | Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from HEMP Threat Environment 4

These commodities or technology are exported from the U.S. in

accordance with the Export Administration Regulations.

Diversion contrary to U.S. law prohibited.

Figure 2 shows an overlay of the necessary “Faraday Cage” constructs at each critical subsystem of the vehicle, with bonding

between systems and filters at each POE.

The battery and alternator form the basis of the DC power plant. The alternator is basically a generator

that siphons rotational energy from the combustion engine and includes a voltage regulator to stabilize

the electrical voltage while the vehicle is operating. Note the negative electrode bonding connections to

the auto chassis. All of these components can be considered immune to HEMP damage.

The ignition system on the other hand could be either vulnerable or resistant depending on the type of

system. Our analysis of the ignition system presumes the application of the SAE J1939 protocol, which is

a standard used for communication and diagnostics among modern computerized vehicle components.

Older diesel engines lack the computerized fuel management and ignition systems of modern vehicles,

which in turn make them much more reliable under EMP conditions.

The SAE J1939 protocol operates at less than 5Volts/200mAmps between the distributer computer

systems in the vehicle. Some of the typical electronic modules within such a modern internal

communications network and governed by this standard are the Engine Control Unit (ECU), the

Transmission Control Unit (TCU), the Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) and body control modules (BCM).

Furthermore, C4I systems deployed in defense vehicles have also become amazingly elaborate,

incorporating point-to-point radio, satellite uplink, weapons and counter-measure electronics, all of which

share a basic sensitivity to EMI interference and HEMP damage.

The ignition system (Illustrated in Figure 3) produces a high voltage electrical charge and transmits it to

the spark plugs via the ignition wires. The charge is generated by the ignition coil and fed to the distributor.

 

5

1474-001 RevA

These commodities or technology are exported from the U.S. in

accordance with the Export Administration Regulations.

Diversion contrary to U.S. law prohibited.

Like mentioned above, in modern vehicles, a computer controls the timing and output of the charge

to the spark plugs in each combustion cylinder.

CONTINUED

Edited by warrior7r

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