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Texas Bill

Ax or machete?

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if I were forced to bug out and that would take some doing I would know that eventually I would have to build a

 

cabin and that requires a axe,and entrenching tool / shovel, machete, knife and bow or buck saw for big trees.

 

where you find cane all you need is a shovel knife machete w a saw back {all edged tools weapons need to be full tang}

 

on the prairie few trees and grass a saw back machete and a knife for thatched roof and sod walls and not much frame work

 

Even at sea I would have all the first list.

 

the minimal I can see having is a cold steel bushman A good saw back full tang machete and a Glock entrenching tool the

estwing hatchet or camp axe would be a fantastic add on.

 

All of these are almost indestructible used for their intended purpose I like durable and dual / multiple use tools.

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Wait there is an argument abot this?

 

Well there shouden't be, because EVERYONE should of been born with the I.q. required to see that the ax is the only real chose. Unless you live in a.. oh...no wait there are no jungles in north america (at least none that I've heard of)

Apparently, sir, you have spent little or no time along the Gulf Coast. Parts of Louisiana, Texas, Florida, heck the whole region are truely jungle and swamp. I replied to your other thread on the topic. Until you define the job to be done, it is pointless to even ask the question. Clear large trees? Obviously use the axe. Make stakes for snares, or small fires or Zombie defense (heh, heh, heh) then a hatchet is better. Clear a path through saw grass or bamboo or banana trees, the machete gets the nod. Notice most of the answers depend on the assigned role. A poorly made blade is bad, regardless of shape or size. A well made and maintained (read SHARP for an edge) tool being used for its designed purpose is the best choice possible.

Just my not so humble opinion.

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got that right we got vines big as your wrist grass 8 foot tall and swamps that rival the Amazon and all the vines

 

seem to have mucho thorns as well as poison ivy the property I am on had a garage it was covered by 3 poison ivy

 

plants a whole 2 car garage I bought this place for the concrete slabs on the property as they cost the most to buy

 

when you start building in the back there was a large area of bamboo as large in diameter as a softball bat

 

It took a backhoe and a ton of hard work to dig it up and burn it.

 

as Capt Bart stated we have some viscous undergrowth harboring snakes scorpions and gators bobcats panthers and

 

fire ants hornets black widows and brown recluse spiders asps and other things that bite in the night.

 

if you have never been hung up in a yopon grove you have not had fun or been in a cypress swamp we also have quick sand

 

it is not common but it's out there it can rain up country and flood you out of you camp on the river if your not

 

cautious you can be swept away and drowned.

 

walk 5 days north and you have 100 foot pine trees and NO ground cover that is why I choose all of the above this area

 

has a very diverse landscape and it changes quick and intermingles in patches I LOVE IT LMAO just like the weather

 

if you don't like it wait 5 minutes it will change floods hail hurricanes tornadoes wind storms I have seen it rain almost a foot

 

in an hour or not at all for well over a month, down to 17 degrees up to 110 and 99% humidity and rain from a empty sky.

 

or rain on one side of the road and not the other.seen water spouts on a lake dust devils and the worst dead still 0 wind and 110

 

with that high humidity now that is the definition of hell on earth then it rains and cools it down to a fresh feeling 99 degrees

 

and steam cleans the clothes your in. I saw it rain tadpoles and one time crickets by the billions and mayflies so thick you

 

had to cover your head with your shirt so you would not suck one in breathing.

 

we got mosquitoes not as big as some places but they make up in size with shear numbers when I was a kid a couple of boys got

 

stuck on a sand bar were so chewed up by sand fleas they were hospitalized and they were only on the sand bar over night.

 

and my favorite johnson grass and cactus prickly pear mostly and it is where it shouldn't be all of a sudden a patch just big

 

enough to make you cry not to mention bull nettles and cats claw and yucca or Spanish dagger.

 

yeppers the Gulf coast has got it charms Florida is even worse now that they have an invasion of boas if they don't fix

 

the problem they may have a invasion of giant Gambian RATS and tiger fish.

 

We have nutria rat but they are not aggressive I would not grab one as they got teeth like a friggin' beaver.

 

and like the rest of the south we have snapping turtles one I saw was as big as a manhole cover

 

it's all good but you need to have the tools to handle the area and we have pine to hickory and cypress and lots of oak

 

in this area not only do you need axes buck saws and machetes but stones and files the hard woods dull a edge quick

 

I have stones that range from 100 grit to ceramic ultra fine 1,500 grit and German and Swiss files from needle to draw files.

 

and it takes some knowledge to sharpen items some need to have the teeth "SET" and a safe edge file as not to cut

 

certain areas as it would weaken the tooth and break as well as bits for a brace they need to be sharpened too.

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Wait there is an argument abot this?

 

Well there shouden't be, because EVERYONE should of been born with the I.q. required to see that the ax is the only real chose. Unless you live in a.. oh...no wait there are no jungles in north america (at least none that I've heard of)

 

Lordy DUDE I know that not everyone has traveled but surely you have access to a TV. Most of South East Texas is jungle and swamp. Lots of the east coast also has [parts of the country that are almost as thick. Read up on the Pine Barrens in NJ. Part of what has happened is that when a forest is strip cleared the resulting second growth is just nearly impenetrable for decades. There is a National Forest and park in East Texas called the Big Thicket that is probably as large as some states and walking through it is TOUGH on a good day.

 

Short term, a machete long term an ax. I also am real fond of a Hawk and probably carry that more often than either for day trips and such as long as I'm not going to be cutting trails and such. The thing is that an ax is a single use sort of thing. You chop with it. My machete can do multiple duty as a digging tool, knife and also makes a good weapon. I can chop trees down as long as they are no bigger than my thigh and then even split the smaller stuff using a log mallet.

 

I do a variable sharpening on the machete with the part nearest my hand sharpened like a knife and the angle widening and thickening as I move out. I can peal potatoes and slice tomatoes with it and still chop wood for the fire. What it won't do is cut logs for a cabin and make joints or split logs for the fireplace. Fortunately those are things that I seldom need to do when I'm just out camping.In a survival situation my needs are more short term. A fire burns just fine with smaller things. All in all I guess if I had to just pick one it would be a machete.

 

What I've actually done for my big BOB is put just and ax head, and wedges in the pack. When I stop running I'll sit down and make a handle for it. Carrying an ax is just an extra pain in the rear when you're traveling and a hatchet just won't do much that a machete can't do. I also like the hawk heads for the same sort of thing.

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An axe would not be terribly useful East of I-95 in NC, unless you're building a cabin. A machete would get you a lot farther. I went to school in the Greenville area, and almost everywhere off the beaten path there was small growth, swamps and nasty places full of malaria.

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One danger with any of these tools is self inflicted ones I know tons of folks with large scars using any or all of these

 

even if your experienced a knot or certain cane and wood and grasses can cause you to hurt yourself not knowing

 

how to size up a tree will get you killed by falling limbs or kick back master limb of a tree causes it to turn or fall in it's

 

direction one sapling is hard as hell the next is a banana you over swing and your digging into your own flesh

 

I do not know how old many of you are but we could not afford fancy power tools with a generator we did everything

 

with hand tools everyones truck was loaded with them and they are no I repeat not interchangeable my current tools

 

a extension limb saw hand saws 3 a shark short quick cut a 18 tpi and a fine cut and a buck saw a a few bow saws

 

1 single bit axe one double bit axe 2 hatchets a mattock and pick axe grubbing hoe a steel 5 foot pinch bar

 

a hoe rake flex and fire type steel wedges and a wood splitter grenade shovels flat nose pointed spade sharp shooter

 

a hay fork sledge hammers 4 and 8 pound 2 pound shop hammer crow bars half dozen.

 

draw knife and a bunch of wood chisels NOW power tools sawsall circular saw chain saws one electric one gas

 

air saw chain falls {1 } block and tackle set {2} come along {1} throw line and climbing rope 100 foot

 

and that is just for wood trees and maintaining the grounds and trees

 

I also have small hand shovel 5 prong weeder wheel barrow pruning shears chemicals brushes NEEM oil tar

 

bug powder spray sprayers fertilizers specific ones and seeds and have 2 weed eaters one push mower and a

 

lawn tractor I am looking to buy a scythe and a yoyo I have a sickle already.

 

we have had it so easy people think they can survive with a Swiss army knife and a battle axe well it ain't so brothers

 

our forefathers cic not cross the prairie with an empty wagon and they had ox carts with their wagons just for tools

 

and those people were the first tool rental business and made a living those that had nothing strained and starved

 

and that's the way it was { Walter Cronkite } work smart or die tired and hungry.

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I would throw in what my Dad called a foot adze. It is great for working a log into other things and makes a good heavy grub hoe too. I use mine a lot actually. A small hand adze is handy too. I do a lot of old school wood work and these are almost necessities for making bowls, water troughs and dugout canoes or flattening the top of a log for splitting off planks.

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The proper tools coupled with the knowledge of their correct usage will mean the difference between success or failure WTSHTF. Hand tools work long after the fuel or batteries give out. Saws, draw knives, wedges, adzes, brace & bits, etc. should be seriously considered for backing up any power tools you have. The noise factor alone could be important. I would bet most of us have far fewer tools than we would need to go it on our own.

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Your right Partsman, after I read Snakes list of what all I'd need I always feel under preped and wondering where I could get a truck big enough to haul it all. :P

 

...but he's right too. At some point you could/would need all of those tools.

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I have several just ax heads that are a lot easier to tote than a full blown ax. If I need the az later I will use the machete to cut and make a handle for the ax head. The head and a few wedges are pretty easy to carry in the bottom of the pack. Now, should it be a double bit or pole ax and what weight. I have actually cut down some pretty good sized trees with a hatchet and really like my camper sized ax for anything short of doing a real lumberjack sort of work.

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my hatchet I replaced the handle with pipe rolled the top edge and tapped it oval if I needed to I could tap it round and

 

remove the head as Damn said just carry the head of a large one separate I do the same with bow saw blades as with a few bolts

 

paracord and wood pieces you can make a buck saw frame.

 

there are so many great tools it is hard to imagine not having them living off the grid independent of mass production or

 

being able to buy or find special tools like ads draw knifes froe's pinch bars and nail pullers of different types as they can be used

 

as wedges and pry bars a weapon it is a matter of imagination as to all edged tools can do I traveled quite a bit and was

 

astounded by the beauty and strength of carved wood some a thousand years old certain woods like any Iron wood family

 

is hell for stout if you use a cave or bury in the ground these woods need a good ax or hatchet but the last many years

 

over evergreen type lumber pine fir spruce etc.

 

the right wood for the right purpose as the tool IMHO.

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Where i am it is both some areas are so thick with vines in a few miles you got 100 foot pines or hardwoods

 

a hatchet is only good for ground litter for a quick fire in a few areas I have seen grass over your head and so thick you would wear yourself

 

out trying to trek through it so I figure a Japnese grass sickle would be fantastic build a thatch house in no time fire is probably why it

 

did not catch on as we have to many droughts.

 

I figure I would take a single bit ax and a long machete and a hatchet as many of the one room log cabins were peg & wedge construction

 

I figure I won't need a 3BR 3bath with a garage,  but a cabin and split rail fence probably.

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well I would toss it too them and while they were trying to catch it draw and double tap.

 

well that is the problem every tool is indespensable I have some foot long log screws

 

work like a champ will draw a whole wall up to plumb problem is unless you have a

 

impact electric drill it won't work.

 

I have beeen aquiring a lot of vintage tools draw knifes froe grass scycle hand drill

 

wood planes chisels hole punches a set of gimlets and special knifes sharpening stones

 

I already had files Hammers saws clamps and standard hand tools unless we have

 

lag screws and nails and glue many projects will be much harder if at all possible.

 

chisels can be used to cut through logs or boards to set pegs or legs with wood pins or wedges.

 

turn buckles can be made from lashing rope strapping even chain or cable knowing how to split and roll

 

a cable eye is easy but most people never have a cable clip will set the eye and you can make a cable sling

 

rope is simaler braided rope is harder for a novice to splice.

 

i am going to pick up a set of hole reamers and a couple of new  hydraulic jacks I have some sissor jacks from scrapped vehicles

 

chain and a 1 ton chain fall set can do the work of 10 men even a set of ice or logging tongs if your going to

 

do a lot of wood cutting for heat you can make a hell of a bear trap with a log fal  / dead fall trap.

 

and you will need a axe hatchet and machete and maybe a knife to whittle the trigger 

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