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wally

sucession

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and good riddance to them.

 

never happen though. that kind of upheaval would....well i dont know what it would do but it wouldn't be good .. honestly the way things are going i could see this place breaking down into several smaller nation states. how they would play out would be anybody's guess. but it would be temporary since that would leave the door open for other nations IE China and Mexico to take advantage of the fracture to move in and take over under the auspice of using the UN as a excuse for peace keeping missions. then when that happened all hell would break loose and no matter what it is game over for us as a constitutional republic. no going back once that road is taken. it will be nothing more than a history lesson..bad times

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I wonder how the KGB came by the 5 to 7 number...

 

I thought it would probably be closer to 3. My thought was that the old Confederate states with the center of the country up to Montana being one, the Yankee states would be another, and the West coast being another. Not sure who Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Colorado would go with.

 

vonBayern,

 

They looked at who had climate, politics and industry in common and tried to put them together.

 

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/379-russia-to-us-youre-breaking-up-too

http://kk.org/ct2/2008/12/breakup-of-the-usa.php

https://www.google.com/search?q=divided+states+breakup+maps+photos&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

You can see some folks think Texas will go its own way; some join a new South; some a Western conference or a Southwestern conference. There are good reasons for each idea. Some think Mexico will reclaim AZ, New Mexico and parts of California. Canada may break up as well and form an alliance with the northwest (but not coastal) states. Some see states themselves breaking apart (why not? many cover multiple climes and cultures) since places like Chicago or New York City don't seem to match up with the rest of their states. Look at the county by county red-blue maps from the last election and you will see that the cities are democrat strong holds and everywhere else tends to be republican. Once splitting starts, if it does, no one really knows where it will end and I doubt that rational thought will be much used in designing alliances.

 

Just my not so humble opinion, of course.

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truth. the dividing lines will be so blurred you wont know where you are or where you stand. i think there would be mass migrations back and forth with al ot death in between with a breakdown of everything in the process. it really will be neighbor vs neighbor for a while, even family member vs family member. not good no matter how you look at it. even Texas with all its chest thumping is going to be a warzone with the high hispanic population and good many with loyalties still toward mexico.

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I just got back from the nearest sizable town and overheard a conversation while eating lunch. I don't normally try to eavesdrop, but when away from home I like to be a little more aware of my surroundings. Anyway, there were 3 black men who I believe were all brothers at the table next to me, all somewhere in their 50's I'd guess. 2 were dressed in business casual attire and the third was in blue jeans and a hooded sweatshirt with plenty of sawdust on it. Their conversation turned to the election and what has followed, and after a bit the one in jeans told the other two they had better pull their heads out of their a###s. He said that when the government pushed people to far they were going to push back, that it was coming. He followed by saying that he was headed to Walmart to buy "shotgun bullets" after lunch because he was worried about being mistaken for one of the welfare n#####s when things went down and people started cleaning house. The other two had stopped teasing him by this time and were silent for a while. Then they changed the conversation to other subjects. Out of curiosity I walked past the ammo counters of the Walmart and Orsheln's I stopped at for other supplies and noticed that both were sold out of 9mm, 223, and bulk packs of 22LR. Not good news, everyone is on edge right now.

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Well of course I have an opinion on this:

 

It's 3 fold

 

1. it may be good for some states but not older retirees or individuals who are disabled

 

2. those in states if they do separate from the union have to worry or wonder about receiving their SSI & SSID V.A. and also 401K and other retirement

or income from Yankee states or states whom still hold to the union.

The government has become so intertwined that it cannot uncoil itself neither can we expect that they will honor any obligation to those who they deem

anti types it's ok for a illegal alien to cross the border and get services and food stamps as well as SS funds but if we separate don't count on that to happen for those that actually paid for those benefits.

I would ask people to consider the impact of a complete restart of your retirement and benefits for the young it's an easy choice for those of us vested

and handcuffed to our present situation not so easy.

 

3. the only positive is if we are out before the crash with a separate monetary system such a copper gold silver zink coinage {not one or another}

metals are ALL valuable as we have seen in recent years.

 

I have considered this at length {about 5 minutes while on the can} given another 5 minutes I could fathom a semi rational way to migrate into a self

run state but then power still corrupts so if you think your state rep is an A hole now wait till he is the king of Prussia {read about Prussia}

Back to one of my favorite statements "you don't get something for nothing".

 

Catfish hunter nothing against your post but just something I have found to be true.

 

I read your post it makes me fear the same thing as the man who was going to buy "shotgun bullets" I pray we do not

look at the surface if a comeapart happens there are many people not citizens yet and those who where not born here

who have a better grasp of our system and do not abuse it and love it as much as any patriot here, they came here

because their own countries were horrible some are not patriotic but as long as we remember you cannot tell a book by it's cover and not be racial or religious zealots.

there are many people here for reasons of working with us have been allowed to come here for protection and work with us still some are translators and many other rungs of the ladder I don't want to get into the weeds but not all hero's walk around with their medals on their chest, just an opinion .....

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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No argument here Snake, I'm pretty color blind myself. I have nothing against anyone from any race willing to pull their own weight and work to support themself and their family, and by everything I got from their conversation they all fit that description. I do have something against those of any race who expect to be taken care of without having to earn a living, and there are plenty of those of all races in this country. Many people don't share my view, or even among those that do share it a few bad individuals can cause problems for everyone. Kinda like a wildfire it only takes one match to start it but to put it out.....

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warrior7r

well I just could not let the great Twinkey debacle go without a comment so I am back and it's great to see you still in the forum looking forward to all your great posts.

 

catfish hunter I am with you we are going to go through a financial calamity of some kind I hope it stays reasonable or better yet we come together

and help each other and work to get out of the hole we are all in .

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warrior7r

well I just could not let the great Twinkey debacle go without a comment so I am back and it's great to see you still in the forum looking forward to all your great posts.

 

catfish hunter I am with you we are going to go through a financial calamity of some kind I hope it stays reasonable or better yet we come together

and help each other and work to get out of the hole we are all in .

 

The cooperation will start at some time I believe, I just hope we can make it sooner rather than later, not sure how bad things have to get before the hard decisions start getting made. Every great civilization in history has fallen at some point, some because the citizens started feeling to entitled and didn't want to bear down and work to right the ship while there was still time. What strong men create usually falls apart when their decendants start thinking that they no longer have to work to maintain or improve what they have inherited. Look at ranches for example, a common saying is that the first generation starts it, the second builds it up, and the third squanders what the first two created. Ranching means hard work and long hours, once I start looking for a ranch that is past the third generation the pickings start getting pretty slim.

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Catfish hunter It would have taken me a lot of self control to not add some comment like "amen" to the one brothers comments though without knowing the tone of the conversation it's what I would have done. Though I do enjoy adding a sentience or two to conversations of people walking the other way on the street.

 

Snake again welcome back and those are all very valid points and good analysis. makes you wonder what happens to us property within the boarder of the state is they did pull it off. Arguably the state is one of 50 share holders in the organization know as the US so they would have some claim to the property though that argument back fires in that is sets a president to send a share of the debt with the state. It would muck up pretty heavy legal problems for a few years if it came to pass.

 

Shifting of Federal government duties to local and state governments would be a more practical solution but isn't exactly what is being asked for here. .

 

I really wanted to shake the guy's hand and buy him lunch, but it was a place where you paid for the buffet on arrival. I don't make it to town often and decided to hit a place where I get lots of options I can't cook myself. I agreed with him totally, but he seemed to have gotten his point across by himself. I wish him the best of luck in the future and hope his brothers listen to his advice. Not so much about stocking up on ammo but about pulling their heads out and thinking about what they can do to prepare to continue to support themselves and their families if things take a turn for the worst.

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Catfish hunter It would have taken me a lot of self control to not add some comment like "amen" to the one brothers comments though without knowing the tone of the conversation it's what I would have done. Though I do enjoy adding a sentience or two to conversations of people walking the other way on the street.

 

Snake again welcome back and those are all very valid points and good analysis. makes you wonder what happens to us property within the boarder of the state is they did pull it off. Arguably the state is one of 50 share holders in the organization know as the US so they would have some claim to the property though that argument back fires in that is sets a president to send a share of the debt with the state. It would muck up pretty heavy legal problems for a few years if it came to pass.

 

Shifting of Federal government duties to local and state governments would be a more practical solution but isn't exactly what is being asked for here. .

 

Shifting Fed duties to Local/State officials.. IS THE ANGLE being suggested by ROn Paul and other 'influential' types. Basically calling for a re-declaration of Indepedence from Global Mega Banks and pushing the FED out of State issues. Calling for Secession, forces the govt to at least take Notice of the discontent. Not they the Fed will make any changes inthe way it opperates. Calling for Secession is SUPPOSE to bring them all to the table. but what seems to be happening is the FED doesnt want to talk about anything, nor do they feel it necessary to talk.... and is preparing to force its will onto the States.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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Catfish hunter It would have taken me a lot of self control to not add some comment like "amen" to the one brothers comments though without knowing the tone of the conversation it's what I would have done. Though I do enjoy adding a sentience or two to conversations of people walking the other way on the street.

 

Snake again welcome back and those are all very valid points and good analysis. makes you wonder what happens to us property within the boarder of the state is they did pull it off. Arguably the state is one of 50 share holders in the organization know as the US so they would have some claim to the property though that argument back fires in that is sets a president to send a share of the debt with the state. It would muck up pretty heavy legal problems for a few years if it came to pass.

 

Shifting of Federal government duties to local and state governments would be a more practical solution but isn't exactly what is being asked for here. .

 

Autonomous alway good to read your posts and thank you for your welcome:

Your view is very valid and does bring up some real problems for unwinding the ties that bind us together and what we might be saddled with as if memory serves me correctly is $60,000.00 each {the amount bantered about lately} if we consider that, I think we are more in debt than Greece or any other nation per person .

 

We live in disconcerting times {i hesitate to use the word scary} those that have not considered prepping may need to reconsider.

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Autonomous alway good to read your posts and thank you for your welcome:

Your view is very valid and does bring up some real problems for unwinding the ties that bind us together and what we might be saddled with as if memory serves me correctly is $60,000.00 each {the amount bantered about lately} if we consider that, I think we are more in debt than Greece or any other nation per person .

 

We live in disconcerting times {i hesitate to use the word scary} those that have not considered prepping may need to reconsider.

 

 

Jeez snake, wait till "they" drive us off the fiscal cliff then you can use the word scary.

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The Secession thing is basically an expression of fear AND a polite warning. I guess people that don't live here don't understand the way we think so I'll try and explain. Texans are in general fairly friendly folks. That is in part because we are also people that WILL fight for what we believe and in defense of even something as silly as our honor. We don't stand and scream at each other like I see on TV. We ARE nearly ALL armed and know how to shoot. We are NOT the limp wristed ninnies that will sit in our house crying for help when someone breaks in. We can, will and are allowed to defend ourselves.

 

Many, I'm not one of them by the way, see Obama as a serious threat to our freedom and way of life. This is MOSTLY caused by the darn Rapeublicans spreading lies about the actual powers of the President and fomenting a lot of anger. I'm every bit as pissed off at them as I am Obama and the Dumbocrats.

 

What Texans are telling Obama AND Washington in general is that if you try and take away our freedoms we are NOT going to lay down and bare it for you. I signed the petition and am willing to fight and DIE for the freedom that the Constitution guarantees us. California is ready to give it all away. Most of the North East has already given their freedoms away. We will DIE before we give it away. An when an armed man says he is a free man it is a statement of FACT. When an unarmed man says it it is a hope and wish because he has already given away his right and ability to defend that freedom.

 

Understand clearly, If Texas decided to take a hike it wouldn't be like those of you that don't understand think. Look for a minute at WHO exactly in in the military. Then look at who it was that fought for Texas independence from Mexico. Davy Crockett was NOT a Texan. But he died at the Alamo. If we go there are hundreds of thousands of our freedom loving Brothers and Sisters all over the country that will come to be a part of this. Pretty quickly afterwards other states would follow suit and exactly what kind of soldiers will the liberals make. The divide isn't between states my friends. It is a division of philosophies that has existed for over a hundred years.

 

Texas would be fighting FOR the United STATES of America and fighting against the Federal Republic of America that Washington represents. Don't look at it as us wanting to go off alone. What it IS is us telling Washington that we WILL if they force us to by trying to take away the States rights to self determination. It is NOT a joke! It is very very real though unlikely. Obama is the President, he can't propose legislation he only gets to sign or veto what the congress sends. As long as the house is free the Senate of tiny towns can't do a lot.

 

I just hope Washington understands that Texans don't make idle threats. We tend to warn you once and then if you cross the line we knock you down. We SHOOT burglars and thieves proudly. If Washington tried to steal our rights they will find out that we ARE willing to fight and unlike a lot of places in Texas the good guys have the guns and not the criminals.

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Damn, I agree with your sentiment. If I may, I would like to make one small observation. I like to distinguish between people who live in the cities and suburban areas in the Northeast with the folks who live in the country. Granted, a much smaller percentage live in the countryside but I find them to be as independent and protective of their freedoms of folks anywhere throughout the U.S. No offense to the fine folks on the forum who live in cities and suburbs is intended.

 

I believe, for the most part, there is a fundamental difference in philosophy based on where you live. I know that in Pennsylvania where I am located, this past Monday was the first day of hunting season and the schools were closed. The kids were out hunting deer. A lot of them. Heck, my friend has taken his two daughters out for years! They are good shots too! And they can skin and prepare the deer thay take down.

 

I am only making a guess here but I believe it has to do with living closer to the land that make sthe difference.

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One of my very best friends was raised and lived for a long time in rural New York State and indeed he has a lot more in common with what I'm talking about than he had with the New York City liberals. In the end that is how he became one of my best friends. He just couldn't stand the slow erosion of his basic rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is damn hard for some to be happy when they KNOW that the next junkie that wants what they have can come and take it all and they will be prosecuted for murder if they don't just let them have what they want.

 

Texas has benefited, just as the US did before and after WW2 from the immigration of the best of the other states. Those that just couldn't take it any more have come to us and become Texans. I'm 5th generation but my best friends have come here seeking freedom from Ohio, New York, New Jersey and Illinois.

 

The problem with living in the rural parts of the megalopolis controlled states is that you will eventually BECOME a criminal by just resisting the slow erosion of your rights. Come and join us and be a free man again! We don't have to let the criminals rule our lives. We carry guns and defend ourselves and in so doing are FREE men and women.

 

People in the big city ruled places don't understand that calling 911 and depending on the cops to protect you is just like depending on the coroner to be your family physician!! Depending on the STATE to take care of you is about the same thing. If things go bad I assure you that the Hispanics and most of the working blacks will gladly stand beside us just as they always have. The leaches will run but the good people of Texas are of ALL colors. Wev are about half Hispanic now yet Obama only carried Houston. The rest went Romney. A Texican KNOWS where his loyalty lies.I'm a Texican.

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Well Im sold..Texas it is..Now to get the wife on board..and the rest will be history.

 

Oh just in case you did not KNOW your 401K is going to be taken by the Goverment.You will be given an account and given 3% interest..they will now call it your RETIREMENT Fund..Oh and you WILL put 5%of what you earn into it..

 

See the Goverment need's your money,YOU DONT!!

That's enough reason for me to LEAVE.......................................

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The Constitution states that “We the people . . . do ordain and establish . . . this Constitution,” not that the Constitution creates the people. The people were created by the Declaration of Independence, which mentions the people both in their political capacity—“one people”—and in their moral capacity—a “good people.” Once the people are established, Madison says, a second contract is necessary, this time between the people in its political capacity and the government. By this second contract, the people consent to be governed under the forms of the Constitution and those who occupy the constitutional offices of government pledge to use their powers exclusively to “promote the general welfare” and “secure the blessings of liberty” to the people. However, should the government act in a settled way to disfranchise the people of their rights, the people always reserve the right to alter or abolish the government in order to secure new forms that are better calculated to promote their “safety and happiness.” This is what has come to be known as the right of revolution, a necessary attribute of the people’s sovereignty which serves as the ultimate guarantee of every other right. The right to alter or abolish government is the only obligation mentioned in the Declaration because it is the ultimate expression of the people’s sovereignty.

 

Seems clear to me. Since those We sent to Washington to do Our Business have failed in their task....shouldn't We replace them?

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One of my very best friends was raised and lived for a long time in rural New York State and indeed he has a lot more in common with what I'm talking about than he had with the New York City liberals. In the end that is how he became one of my best friends. He just couldn't stand the slow erosion of his basic rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is damn hard for some to be happy when they KNOW that the next junkie that wants what they have can come and take it all and they will be prosecuted for murder if they don't just let them have what they want.

 

Texas has benefited, just as the US did before and after WW2 from the immigration of the best of the other states. Those that just couldn't take it any more have come to us and become Texans. I'm 5th generation but my best friends have come here seeking freedom from Ohio, New York, New Jersey and Illinois.

 

The problem with living in the rural parts of the megalopolis controlled states is that you will eventually BECOME a criminal by just resisting the slow erosion of your rights. Come and join us and be a free man again! We don't have to let the criminals rule our lives. We carry guns and defend ourselves and in so doing are FREE men and women.

 

People in the big city ruled places don't understand that calling 911 and depending on the cops to protect you is just like depending on the coroner to be your family physician!! Depending on the STATE to take care of you is about the same thing. If things go bad I assure you that the Hispanics and most of the working blacks will gladly stand beside us just as they always have. The leaches will run but the good people of Texas are of ALL colors. Wev are about half Hispanic now yet Obama only carried Houston. The rest went Romney. A Texican KNOWS where his loyalty lies.I'm a Texican.

 

thats they way it is in most states. you look at our state NC and the cities of asheville, Charlotte, and Raleigh/durham are just little islands of blue surrounded in a sea of red. just like most states. just remember it isn't just Texas that has its heart set in the ways of liberty and freedom. especially those of us in the south. hell even CA there are good many people there who are sickened by the way their home state is now. My very best friend and my brother from another mother is a native Californian. and when i say native he extols the stereotype, ex metal head guitar player , had long hair growing up, pot smoker.. but he is the most pro-constitutional, pro-gun, pro-liberty guy you will ever meet. so yeah like you said this isnt a state thing it is philosphy thing. pro independence vs pro-dependence

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