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wally

sucession

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You know, this discussion is a great deal like putting a frog in a pot of water and slowly heating it up.

 

What is the line that must be crossed before a civil war is legitimate? I am serious. Can a line be even defined? Politicians are great at couching things in such a manner that it only looks like a small inconsequantial step.

 

There will be no outright gun ban. Instead it will be kind of like how guns disappeared in Britian. One little law at a time. Each person thinks "Well, that does not affect me. So I will go along and hope this is the last step."

 

Unborn babies will be killed just minutes before they are due to be born. And if a infant has the audacity to live through the attempted abortion, they will be left to die with no assistance.

 

Sure, tax the rich. They can afford just a little more. Even if we were to tax them 100% it would only keep the govenment going for what? Another two to three months?

 

The government can't spend less because the very first dollar reductions will kill some poor people and kids will go hungry. Really? There is no waste or fraud?

The government isn't too big? It already is just the right size?

 

Lets reform health care by replacing it with a government run system. Call it a fee for service even though the Supreme Court was only able to back it by accepting it as a tax. After all, that is acceptable to the Constitution, isn't it? We all know that those government run programs only getter better with time. I mean, it would be way too much effort to seriously reform the exisisting health care system. That would require some really bright people in Congress to buckle down and work. Which part of that makes sense? The bright people or work?

 

No economy performs well without a good infrastructure and inexpensive energy. So lets make that stuff expensive. Don't use what we have.

 

And on and on it goes.

 

Lets face it. There will never be a line where everybody says "I am fed up and not taking it anymore!" So people start doing irrational and emotionally charged things. Like starting a secession petition, becoming a "doomsday survivalist", denying anything bad can ever happen, buying twenty four guns, etc.

 

Me? I am big on keeping my sanity. If it falls apart, it falls apart. I have no control over it. Just my own actions. I will examine each situation as it comes along, try and make the best possible rational decision, correct my mistakes, and love my loved ones. Hopefully, that approach will get me all the way to my death. I know things will be easier after that.

 

Call me an optimist.

Edited by Rod

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OC,

The 14th Amendment may outlaw sucession, BUT if the govt doesn't wish to honor the Constitution in total, why should we the people allow them to Pick and Choose which parts they wish to enforce?

 

If even 1 State files a petition for Sucession, the Pres. must at least evaluate it. Or so thats how its supposed to be.

But now he has 20 state petitions to evaluate. THat changes the tone of things. Although, all the pres. has to do is just ignore the petitions; forcing the states into actions; to reveal the strength of their convictions.

 

As for me. I have my lil bottle of Brass polish, keep chuggin along, keep eyes and ears open, ready to jump ship

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You know, this discussion is a great deal like putting a frog in a pot of water and slowly heating it up.

 

What is the line that must be crossed before a civil war is legitimate? I am serious. Can a line be even defined? Politicians are great at couching things in such a manner that it only looks like a small inconsequantial step.

 

There will be no outright gun ban. Instead it will be kind of like how guns disappeared in Britian. One little law at a time. Each person thinks "Well, that does not affect me. So I will go along and hope this is the last step."

 

Unborn babies will be killed just minutes before they are due to be born. And if a infant has the audacity to live through the attempted abortion, they will be left to die with no assistance.

 

Sure, tax the rich. They can afford just a little more. Even if we were to tax them 100% it would only keep the govenment going for what? Another two to three months?

 

The government can't spend less because the very first dollar reductions will kill some poor people and kids will go hungry. Really? There is no waste or fraud?

The government isn't too big? It already is just the right size?

 

Lets reform health care by replacing it with a government run system. Call it a fee for service even though the Supreme Court was only able to back it by accepting it as a tax. After all, that is acceptable to the Constitution, isn't it? We all know that those government run programs only getter better with time. I mean, it would be way too much effort to seriously reform the exisisting health care system. That would require some really bright people in Congress to buckle down and work. Which part of that makes sense? The bright people or work?

 

No economy performs well without a good infrastructure and inexpensive energy. So lets make that stuff expensive. Don't use what we have.

 

And on and on it goes.

 

Lets face it. There will never be a line where everybody says "I am fed up and not taking it anymore!" So people start doing irrational and emotionally charged things. Like starting a secession petition, becoming a "doomsday survivalist", denying anything bad can ever happen, buying twenty four guns, etc.

 

Me? I am big on keeping my sanity. If it falls apart, it falls apart. I have no control over it. Just my own actions. I will examine each situation as it comes along, try and make the best possible rational decision, correct my mistakes, and love my loved ones. Hopefully, that approach will get me all the way to my death. I know things will be easier after that.

 

Call me an optimist.

 

this has to be one of the best things I have read all month. Just might have to make it my new signiture.

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FOX news is totally mocking the whole secession thing too. its rather insulting

but Lew Rockwell brings up a good point. States dont HAVE to enforce fed laws...under the COnstitution

Edited by NavyVet_77

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When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

 

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

 

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

 

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

 

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

 

-------—--------Martin Niemöller

 

700,000 signatures so far? You could fit that many people in 7 "camps". The camps were described before when an undercover agent infiltrated the Weathermen. There was talk of re-educating or eliminating up to 28 million people. That was in the late 60's or early 70's. how much more efficient could they be today? To borrow a phrase from CCR; "There's a bad moon on the rise".

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Every constitutional expert will agree that the legal basis for us being able to form the US and have a constitution is the Decoration of Independence. That is the basis for all constitutional and thus all US law. Interestingly enough it has a few interesting turns of phrase. "...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."

 

Now, I'm not stating that it is time to do so. 700,000 people is not even a third of the number we have incarcerated in the US (2.3mil), and not even 1/2 of a percent of our potential electorate (200mil as a guess) so it is by no means representative of the whole of America. Still, this is a petition that the President will have to address in some manner. Not for any legal reasons but for the 20,000 signatures and I'll talk about it statement on the White House web site. [Man, I am including all of the red flag, tag this guy and find out where he lives buzz words]

 

I believe what is going on here is that America is waking up to the fact that what we have is a horse that was designed by a committee (that's a camel for those not familiar with the joke). I haven't met an American that has different values than myself... just different ideology on how to get there and that is what all of these arguments boil down to. So when compromises are made it's from an ideological point of view not one based on values.

 

This will pass, but we need to make sure that our values are represented not ideology.

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Well it may not be garnering much attn. serious or not from the media but somebody in the gov. is paying attn. to it as ground units across the US received a warno (Warning Order) that there may be civil disturbances across the US and they are stepping up the SAEDA (Subversion and Espionage Directed against the Army) Briefs with a huge emphesis on domestic threats we got ours today with an we are in uncertain times and be prepared for anything your the strength and glue of our nation and I know you'll do your duty ect. I do not care for any of it republican democrat I do not care the whole thing is broken and it is swirling all of us down the bowl if I am given an order against the people or a state I am done their corruption is one thing. Murdering Americans to support and continue it for either side of the isle or both is not going to happen by my hand both parties are just as guilty of stripping away freedom and destroying the Constitution. This is definately headed down the wrong road and the gov has decided it is not going anywhere or changing without a fight. I was going to drop my ret. packet in Jan I am thinking now maybe next week but its about the money for me right now but I may just take it on the chin. It Doesn't matter what side of the fence your on or who is mad at who for winning the election you are a subject we live in a Police State and they will try to enforce it. It does not matter what this movement is about, it is becoming a threat to their authority and they do not care whose side your on or why they are being challenged they will show you who is the boss. We have no real rights anymore just lip service to keep the masses calm when they violate your rights and the masses yell they simply say well it appears there are some questionable actions so we promise to fully investigate the matter two years later you get well after carefull investigation we found that enter the agency or individual acted in the best way they could have at that point because of training issues so we updated the training or let so and so resign or relieved the offending person but their is never any real culpability or responsibility 2 years later you find that the same individual, units, offices ect are A still doing the same thing B still working for the gov C promoted. it is a system a system designed to subtly control and it uses blatant acts to keep you focused else where. what I am saying is they are already stacking the deck in their favor they have no intention of listening to any of us not to the staunchest Dem supporter or Republican or Independant they DO NOT CARE, THEY ARE PART OF THE POWER MACHINE and they are going to try to roll over everyone if threatened yep they have come after me several times and truth be told they have made my life tough I haven't promoted in seven years I have all these great evals and one hell of a backround they send me to do all sorts of crazyness and they know I will get it done but they also know where I stand and I do not fit in to their team they keep me away from a command assignment intentionaly I have been told point blank hell they monitor what I say here I have been confronted several times in March April and may when I disapeared for a while I was in front of a security and ethics review board accused of violating classified information and OPSEC on this forum! which I have never done. I beat it but only because I knew their rule book better than they did. and you know what by Fri. I will be called in again for this post. but I am putting it out their so you all wake up and smell reality Dem Rep teaparty I dont care what you call youselves we are all the same Subjects until you get that through your head and the proof is undeniably in the pudding your worse than a subject your a mental slave. ah my wife is playing strains from Les Miserable so fitting "Can you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men it is the music of a people who will not be slaves again" when you live under tyrany in any form you are a slave I know I am I also know I am only one voice and my voice is tempered by an oath I took I do not have the luxury of going to a political rally, or Addressing Congress or penning an op ed. my is to defend this nation my ability to exercise my freedoms is limited to what I recieve permission to do until they allow me to retire. so whats your excuses for allowing this to continue. OC your solution is instead of fixing things just wait two years and let another group of incompetents take over and make it worse in other ways. Tell me how does that fix anything? Bouncing between groups of morons has not fixed anything to date just made it worse I remember and old phrase about Lunacy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result everytime. Sorry at least I know where I stand hated and a threat but needed at the moment. I also am clearly aware of the playing field and its rules. sorry to pick on you OC but your not the only one on the forum I am addressing nor am addressing only the liberals I am addressing!! So Again what do you believe what are you willing to stand and possibly kill for me I already know I killed my career knowingly by standing for what was right and yep I do not blame anyone but myself and I would do it again something are bigger than I will ever be but my children will never look at me in shame and I hope it teaches them to fight for things that truly matter

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700k is the people who signed but how many support the idea they are presenting without actually signing. i dont want to see a civil war or the breakup of this nation but the feds need to get a wake up call that we the people are sick of them and what they are doing in DC. this is the sounding board for DC start making it right and start listening to the people who put them in office and the people who didn't but are still part of the process.

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I have to agree that there is no real basis for the states to be allowed to secede, hell, even Rick 'the hair' Perry said that Texas didn't really want to leave the Union. For the most part I have to agree with him. However, the way I see it is that this is just a continuation of the down with wall street, tea party movements. The people are starting to wake up, they are stirring and they are looking around and going, 'What the hell?'. That makes the professional politicians nervous.

 

Prices continue to rise, the unemployed continue to be unemployed, the full time employed discover that they are going to be part time instead of full time as a result of Obummer care, more companies are moving out of the country as a result of the current regimes policys.

 

Forget the guys name now, but he owns a company that makes medical supplies, he gave 2 million to one of Obummers super pacs. His company will be moving out of the country because of the 'new' tax on medical supplies and the increased cost of regulation. That's another 1500 people that will be unemployed...unless he can get a waiver of some type.

 

I feel that it's only gonna get worse.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A pessimist is never disappointed

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Interesting times, indeed. Everybody is on alert, we are all terrorist now. How will it go down? Well, the difference is that the people are still armed. When that was true in the past, King George was sent packing. When that was true in the past, Texas gained its independence from Mexico. When it wasn't true, the people of France stormed the Bastille to get arms and once they had them, the monarchy fell. When it wasn't true in China, or Germany, or Cambodia, or Russia (after the Russian civil war) or Rwanda or elsewhere, millions died. Can the US survive with this kind of division? The KGB didn't think so; they thought we'd break into between 5 and 7 separate nations.

 

It actually IS possible to govern a country with a 50-50 split if you do so carefully and with consideration for the other half. Anyone taking bets on the current occupant of the white house being able to govern that way versus trying to confiscate our guns? No, me either. Personally, I do not think the US will split apart. I also don't think the citizens will give up their firearms. I do think we are looking at a period of failed states, riots and attempts to control people that will ultimately fail. I saw a news story that they wanted to put NYC refugees in unused Federal prisons for "shelter". Really, can you imagine Bush even considering that? California is going to fall apart this year. Europe is back in a recession, except for Greece that is in a full blown depression. Some places will be worse that others but no where will it be easy.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

Oh, remember, in this thread especially, no conspiracy to break any laws. Consider your words carefully because they can (perhaps likely will) be reviewed by folks who do NOT favor your points of view and have power to do things about it. Ask the guy who made a little video; he got a years jail time .... oh, yeah, for parole violation they said.

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Capt, the biggest issue with the last paragraph, is we all have already done so. By telling People to have more than 7 days food stored and ready to provide for and support their family in, during, and after a disaster we have all placed ourselves on the newest checklist as "terrorists". No this isn't a dig at the kenyan WMD, it goes straight to the heart of the problem, DC and it's alphabet soup agencies and gestapo tactics.

 

I agree tho on NOT opening confessing to wanting to commit an overt act. We live in some very troubling times and I see it getting more turbulent as commented earlier by others. I just hope we can find the drain plug before this nation goes down the drain. We are the "Costa Concordia" and have francesco schettino "jr" at the helm.

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what a joke. when mexico comes across the board and starts to overrun texas they will cry for the US protection.

this is yet another fine example of wasted efforts just like occupy wallstreet :rolleyes:

 

 

DUDE, if the Texans in the US military came home instead of being Washington s mercenary military Texas would nave NO need of help from ANYONE. Unlike places like California Texas is almost one hundred percent ARMED to the teeth and always ready to fight. We kicked them out once before and we would have little trouble keeping them out. Besides, if we weren't supporting most of the postage stamp states with our taxes we could HIRE the entire American Army to do OUR fighting like Saudi does. Get Washington off our backs and we will crank open the oil fields again and join OPEC! LOL.

Edited by Danm

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I wonder how the KGB came by the 5 to 7 number...

 

I thought it would probably be closer to 3. My thought was that the old Confederate states with the center of the country up to Montana being one, the Yankee states would be another, and the West coast being another. Not sure who Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and Colorado would go with.

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I just wanna be able to keep polishin the brass and be left alone, to go about my life, to be content in my own welfare. But unfortunately, my heart tells me I cant do that.

 

I gotta agree with you...I think thats what most of us want. We just want to go about our bussiness and be left alone and not be told what to do or how to do it. I hated polishing the brass. But I could quite easily sit out side in a lawn chair with a beer and watch the grass grow... :P

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I just had a thought...<lonely little guy too>...

 

Just for the hell of it and Obummer says fine...'you don't like it here, get the hell out and see how you can do on your own.' What happens to all the welfare ticks? Do the various states give em a free ride to the <whatever state> US border and send em across? Would Obummer even want em?

 

Note:

 

Welfare tick is not everyone on welfare but rather those who have made a careear out of being on welfare.

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