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NavyVet_77

Buying 'Land Locked' Land

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SO i was checking out land prices in the Michigan U.P.

Several good deals as far as pricing goes. But taking just a bit of a closer look, much of the UP land thats for sale is 'Land Locked'. Meaning there is no road access to it.

 

now... thinking about this as a bug-out or retreat location that may not be a bad thing.

but then again, having to hike a mile in and out, no roads or utility access for at least a mile. IDK.. what do you guys think.

 

FYI.. Im talkin 40-50 acres, all wooded, many have water access (streams, creek, river) just VEERY far from any road. VERY nice prices/acre

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Navy, I don't know Michigan laws but everywhere I have been, they must offer a right-of-way to the land.

I wouldn't mind it, but would have to check the water ways. I own canoes and I can use "Native American Highways" if it meant I would be left alone...lol.

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oNE plot i was looking at doesnt have a 'road' but is accESSible by a railroad maintenance PATH that follows along side the tracks for a good ways. Maybe the state wont mind if i do some gravel.

 

Reg5

All the plots i looked at would be cool if you WANT to be totally isolated and secluded. Its just that id prefer not to need to put down a mile of gravel.

Seclusion definately has its place in the context of prep.

But as for right-of-way, in the U.P. the vast majority of land is part of or adjacent to a National.State park

Edited by NavyVet_77

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In general, you have an implied easement across adjoining land for access to your property. To get an express easement, you have to condemn an easement across the adjoining property that has the closest access. But this could mean that you have to sue several neighbors to ultimately get access.

 

The right of way belongs to the railroad, not the state, and they tend to guard their ROWs jealously. It's useful for stealthy access, but don't count on it always being there or available. I don't think that they'd willingly grant you access. A few years back when we were doing a hotel/condo development in Mexico, FerroMex wanted us to spread some grease around to even talk about using their ROW, and then have all owners along the coast between the city limits and our project contribute to a lobbying fund to get the "necessary permits". Um...yeah.... And we were already in good with the necessary politicos! Not as bad in the U.S., but railroads and utilities don't budge.

 

What I typically advise clients in your situation is to contact adjoining landowners and determine if they would be willing to enter into a road development agreement. It gets you the easement and spreads the cost of a road over multiple owners. It's not ideal, but it's often the best alternative if you absolutely need to have a road.

 

That said, opsec might best be served by not having a road. You don't normally go looking for someone on land with no apparent access.

Edited by azatty

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You sound adamant, ricksconnected. Bad experience?

 

I know I'd want a road, so this isn't an issue for me. But it is interesting to see people's thoughts, especially if it's truly just a BOL and not going to be a place where you live everyday.

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I am putting my real estate owner/broker hat on here:

 

I agree with O/C and say stay away from buying land-locked property. There must be something written in your deed and in the deed of the other land. Make sure it is written in both! Also, what are you going to do if the land owner decides that he doesn’t like you and changes the deal? Now he might stop you from crossing his land to access your property. If you don’t think it happens, think again. If you fight the land owner, you will probably win in a court of law… but at what cost? Lawyers are not cheap and they even charge you for every six minutes that they speak with you on the phone. Research costs add to your expenditure. Having the lawyer physically representing you in court will cost much, much more. And when all is said and done, you’ve dropped thousands into fighting the other land owner in court, what do you have left in your bank? And after you win in court, your neighbor is now really pissed off at you. And while you are away from this piece of bug-out property, the other guy is still next to your land and your bug-out security improvements. And, since he is a butthead and he is pissed at you, what are the odds that ‘bad things’ happen to your property while you are away?

 

If you can possibly avoid it, avoid it! You might save a few thousand in the purchase price but you open yourself up to all kinds of future costs. Spending the money up front by buying a different piece of property may save you thousands in the future. Good luck!

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Unless you know a friendly helicopter pilot, getting bulk materials in for things like housing, wells, barns, etc. would be very expensive. Also, part of planning for TSHTF events is planning for a personal SHTF. How do you get out in event of a broken leg? Remember, not all SHTF and Black Swan events are wide spread. They are often enough, very local and personal.

 

Horses are great but unless you're under 30 and invincible (by the way, I figured out that I spell invincible "S-T-U-P-I-D"! That's why I'm medically retired from the Army) you want a way to get supplies and medical help to you and your family. A sick child with no way to get to a doctor is misery.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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My friends dad owns of a bit of land. A guy owns 50 acres in the middle of his property <land locked as it were>, the owners of the 50 acres pissed off my friends father and now have no access to the property. I'm not sure if he ever had it to begin with, but I KNOW that he doesn't have it now.

 

My friends dad? He's a retired lawyer and a partner in a law firm...like ExCoastie said, trying to get access isn't going to be cheap.

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Could you please elaborate your point. You have knowledge of these things ?

 

First thing to do is to look at the plats and figure out what is the easiest way to have access to a road. Is there a path that will allow you to get to the landlocked property by just driving in on their "driveway" and turning off on yours? Will they agree to let you use it? This would be called an easement. You obtain permission from the owner (and have it RECORDED LEGALLY) that you can cross their property to get to yours.

 

If the person you are buying from owns the other property you would have to cross, it should be pretty to get them to agree to an easement and record it with the transfer of the deed. If not, there is much less incentive for them to agree without some enticement. This can be done with a private agreement, or if all else fails...... the court.

 

At least here, the court will typically force an easement. You have to "sue", and they will award you access to your property by crossing someone elses. If you can get something set up first, it is usually easier. Facing your new neighbor in court right away doesn't always lead to friendly neighbors.

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Rick, even if it recorded legally, the owner can force you to stay off his land and make you take him to court.

 

Navy, if you were my buyer I would do EVERYTHING possible to stop you from making an offer on land-lock property. Then, if you insisted, I would draft a letter in which you acknowledge that you are making the offer in spite of my advice. It would also contain a “Hold Harmless Clause” stating that no matter what happens, me and my real estate firm cannot have any legal action taken against it for anything involved with the sale and the property’s future use. I am that serious that you shouldn’t buy land-lock property.

 

However, I live in Massachusetts and people here sue their Realtor because it rained the day that they were supposed to move in. So maybe in other states it is not so bad. But why play Russian Roulette with tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars?

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excoastie,

NAW, you just don't like anyplace that doesn't have enough water to float a cutter close by!:P

 

Actually, very good advice, sir. I absolutely would make sure I had an easement for access to my property. Not only could it severely restrict your use of the land, you might have a great deal of trouble selling it later.

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