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Regulator5

Lessons from Red Dawn

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Ok, I know there is alot of hollywood in this classic, but there were some lessons as well. I just happened to catch it again on the Military Channel tonight. Of course as they are playing it, Lou Diamond Phillips and the host of Triggers (?) is hosting and adding commentary.

 

The film maker during an interview in 1999 was asked what he thought of his movie now that the soviet union had collapsed; his reply was it wasn't about the soviets but the fed gov't. Of course the movie was released in 1984, how ironic?

 

I did like the no nonsense instructions given by Ben Johnson's character.

 

I also found it interesting that the socialist invaders went to the sporting goods stores to get the atf forms to see who owned firearms and what types. I hope anyone who deals in firearms reading this, destroys their records if an event of apocalyptic proportions happens (invasion, tyranny, etc).

 

The grimmest lesson (at least to me), was that whenever a crime was committed (as told by Ben Johnson), the population was told it was done by the "guerrillas" (the band of kids) to drive a wedge between the population and those not willing to accept slavery. This WILL be a tactic utilized by whoever pushes for power, whether it's a foreign invader or a tyrannical regime.

 

Also, unlike the movie, NEVER have a bonfire that could be seen from 500 miles away when you are on the run and being hunted!!!!!!

 

Any other lessons?

 

*Edit* P.S. It shows you can't trust a politician also with the mayor selling out...lol.

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The grimmest lesson (at least to me), was that whenever a crime was committed (as told by Ben Johnson), the population was told it was done by the "guerrillas" (the band of kids) to drive a wedge between the population and those not willing to accept slavery. This WILL be a tactic utilized by whoever pushes for power, whether it's a foreign invader or a tyrannical regime.

 

Ya... DHS+NDAA vs. Vets+Preps

 

Any other lesson? If a member of your group goes missing for a while but returns, you cant trust em.

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I noted that they did it in Colorado. I find it interesting that they didn't choose Texas. One of the lessons is that every military contains the weapons of its own destruction. If me and my knife catch an invader alone, then I am armed exactly as he was. That can be a useful tool or a curse.

 

The Indian lost when he started using the invaders' weapons that he could not produce for himself. He was always short of arms and ammo. On the other hand, if your job is simply to delay and distract, you have all the weapons you need.

 

The lesson of Napoleon and Hitler in Russia is instructive. Just like China today, America might be beaten if our politicians cave or destroyed if you have the right weapons, it can NOT be invaded and occupied. Again, 250 million weapons in 150 million households is a daunting battleground.

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To add to the philosophical lessons I picked up (especially as much as it is discussed here on the forum), they all "suffered" from the cold and not having the "right food". After the scene of them harvesting the deer, they are sitting at a campfire fixing a can of soup and some were complaining there was "no food" left. The one said "only stuff you shot", which will be a mental fight for those who aren't accustomed to eating wild game. Ragnar Benson in his book, "Survival Poaching", says it's best to get your kids used to eating wild game early, so if survival becomes necessary, they will eat the harvested food before they are forced to thru starvation, when they are weaker and won't be at their best (whatever the best is during a situation); I agree and Red Dawn seemed to support that in the writing.

I also hope others seen this (or I'm just really reading more into it), they ALL were able to survive until they started military operations. By the end, only 2 made it. It's a lesson we speak of here about avoiding firefights if at all possible. That said, I will defend and even go on the offensive if it means an invading army or gangs of marauders. I just seen it as an accurate depiction that even if you "win" the firefights, you won't get resupplied or additional manpower.

 

On a side note, I did find it interesting that the russians were wearing the light blue berets.

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Tinder, if you use a marinade, add a pinch of cinnamon to it (very small pinch is all that is needed), it will remove the "gamey" taste and that came from some city folks who didn't hunt but accepted a free venison roast as a Thank You.

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Snipe. Take your one shot and move on.

 

Snipe as a team. One disables a vehicle, next member at a separate location takes out a crew member. You could have multiple teams out, but the point to this is everyone only takes one shot. Take your shot and get the hell out.

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Running to the hills and guerilla tactics are the only real methods available to those who challenge the established order. You dont think so ? ok... they have Planes, tanks, satellites, drones, A-10 warthog and close support helos.

 

Check out 'Defiance', tells a story about a group of Jews hiding in the polish forest during WWII

 

i think the most effect thing a resistant group could achieve would be to dismantle the upcoming concentration camps, freeing those captive there.

 

Throughout history, many examples are seen of rebels being supported by external sources. And the US has done this many times. Even in current events. WHile the US is surely involved, our govt cant directly participate. So i pose the question, what external body would aid these groups inside the US? THats an answer for a more private forum

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Reg thanks for the cinnamon tip. I agree about taking on the order. Guerilla tactics are the only way to go...definitely only take one shot. To many people out there are going to want to empty their mags...big mistake. In and out and don't get caught.

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Study the French and Indian wars, look at what the Swamp Fox did against the British <I think Mel Gibsons character was based on him...forgot the movie name right now>. Someone had already mentioned Defiance, that was the Jews in Russia who were fighting the Nazis. Look at what Geronimo did with the few warriors available to him.

 

One thing to remember though...

 

A guerrilla force can NEVER defeat a standing army...yes they can win the battles but they won't win the war until such a time as they can amass enough troops and equipment to form their own standing army.

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VB, The Swamp Fox, Francis Marion, is probably my favorite Revolutionary War General and I agree that Mel Gibson's character in Patriot was based largely on him, IMO also.

Another example of how guerilla warriors were able to decimate the enemy is study the Serbs in WW2 and how fast they were stopping the nazis and then were sold out (another debate). The Finnish (I think) who fought the soviet war machine to a sound thrashing during WW2 would also be another example.

The idea that guerrillas can't defeat a standing army is viable with the addition of "until they amass their own army". A small guerrilla band will not defeat a standing army but the collection of several guerrilla bands joining forces I guess would constitute a "standing army".

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I would agree that whenever the bands begin to merge, or work in collusion with one another to attack specific targets, or detailed chain of attacks that they are beginning to form a standing army. I don't know what the tipping point would be as to where all the bands together would be considered an army. A centralized command with a chain of command would be one thought...but I don't know enough about the army side to be able to say for sure.

 

One of the down sides of helping a totalitarian regime gain power through revolution is that after they win, guess who they go after first?

 

Look at what Lenin did those that helped with the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, Hitler with the night of the long knives, the Serbs, the Russians with the Polish military class...the list goes on. But the long and the short of it is that if you help overthrow one government, its replacement will see you as a threat.

Edited by vonBayern

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Running to the hills and guerilla tactics are the only real methods available to those who challenge the established order. You dont think so ? ok... they have Planes, tanks, satellites, drones, A-10 warthog and close support helos.

 

Check out 'Defiance', tells a story about a group of Jews hiding in the polish forest during WWII

 

i think the most effect thing a resistant group could achieve would be to dismantle the upcoming concentration camps, freeing those captive there.

 

Throughout history, many examples are seen of rebels being supported by external sources. And the US has done this many times. Even in current events. WHile the US is surely involved, our govt cant directly participate. So i pose the question, what external body would aid these groups inside the US? THats an answer for a more private forum

 

very good points navy, but you also have to consider that not all military personel are going to side with the gov. just because they work for them doesn't mean they will blindly follow them. most of them can't stand the gov.either! i think there will be a lot of them going to go to the other side and bring their weaponry with them. just my two cents worth.

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very good points navy, but you also have to consider that not all military personel are going to side with the gov. just because they work for them doesn't mean they will blindly follow them. most of them can't stand the gov.either! i think there will be a lot of them going to go to the other side and bring their weaponry with them. just my two cents worth.

 

In the book, Patriots, you see a great deal of military defection as the gurillas grow in strength. I agree that that would be a likely scenario.

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Having a more than academic interest in non-traditional warfare I recommend War in the Shadows is a decent read, two volumes and not cheap but a LOT of good data. The distilled version is that the Guerrilla can NOT win a military victory. If the major power is willing to engage in a long war, the guerrilla loses. He wins a political victory or he loses. Viet Nam is an excellent case study. The US did not lose ANY major engagement and very few above platoon size. That war was lost in the halls of congress. When the VC tried to get into major tactics they were all but wiped out. The Battle of Hue was a resounding victory for the US forces although you'd never know that from the Pravda coverage. The biggest mistake that an irregular force can make is to attempt to become a standard military.

 

It should be noted that very little of the American War for Independence was actually guerrilla fighting. We had major powers on our side, providing arms and training as good as the British had and at no longer a logistics trail than the Brits. That is ultimately the problem. No guerrilla force can EVER match the production of the force they are fighting. Without international sponsors, the attempt to go regular is doomed. The small unit forces can win, but only over the long hall by making the price of victory too high for the regular forces. The Soviets in the Afghanistan, us in RVN, the failure of Che in South America (he went big and LOST) all speak to the truth. The guerrilla is a political fighter and uses non-traditional means to make the cost unacceptable to a force that he can't defeat in detail.

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spot on Capt Bart. all this hollywood red dawn victory stuff is just that, fantasy.. unless you have your own armor, air, and logistic assets you can not win a major military engagement. small arms alone in the hands of a few irregulars cannot win a war

 

I remember at the beginning of the movie "We were Soldiers" when it showed the Viet Minh attacking a french military convoy, in the end one of the french junior officers was badly wounded and one of the soldiers asked the commander if they should treat him and take him prisoner, and he stated "no, kill all they send till they send no more" that always stuck with me as the perfect strategy for guerrilla warfare. that is the political victory you need, send enough body bags home to grieving parents, wives, and children and you turn the people against the government you are fighting. Thats how they won against us in VN.

Of course that also depends on against what kind of government you are fighting like communists like NK, the old Soviet Union and even China, man power is nothing and they are used to the human wave ,grinder tactic and probably won't care about mass casualties on their end since they devalue human life anyway.

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