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Hossfly

WROL,TSHTF,TEOTWAWKI , non verbal comms

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I was reading some history stuff about the underground railroad which lead me to WWII and the ways the Jews knew where a safe place might be and the idea hit me that a lot of us would be travelling during or shortly after a life changing event like the ones in the title. Another member's post actually started my reading journey. I wondered if there should be some sort of sign or symbol that those enroute to a BOL or other safe place could look for to know that they have encountered a friend and maybe a place to spend a safe night on the road. Is it even feasible these days to provide a safe place for the ones making the journey? Would it be possible to find the symbols in or near a big city that would lead you safely around or through the area? Gangs use tagging to communicate and give instructions, direction or advice. Why couldn't a civilized group also do it? Any ideas on the subject or am I just thinking out of my butt again?

It has made for some interesting reading today.

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No, your not thinking out of your butt again...<but that could explain where you get some of your ideas :P>

 

I had discussed this with OC privately a bit and we had discussed making a thread about it. I had asked her to start it because she thinks things through better than I do...but Oh well...you brought it up so...

 

Unless its an EMP we don't need signs. We can use cell phones, and from an OpSec point of view we can use disposables.

 

Disposable phone numbers are posted in a private area along with member name and general location.

 

You can leave a voice mail stating your needs, shelter, food, water, intel.

Phones would be checked a certain number of times a day for messages.

Member can leave your items in a secure cache and walk you to it or deliver them <their choice>.

 

That was one aspect of what we had discussed.

 

Members can also be passed along through family or close friends if need be...but that requires more trust on both sides.

 

Any other input is welcome...like I said...this was something that OC and I had talked about for a bit and never really finished.

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Hoss, While I agree with you I wouldn't know how to go about it in an open forum. We have vistors that may be just reading the posts to gain intel on how those of us who prepare are getting ready, how much food we have on hand, etc. I do not think there are many, but if only one from an organized group sees it, they will relay it to others.

It would be great to have a way to tell safe havens and friends without the need to get in speaking range or exposing everything beforehand.

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Opsec was the stumbling block in my thinking. It was easier before the internet. And I'm pretty sure you're correct Reg. I imagine they keep tabs on people like us. Guess it'll have to wait until after TSHTF for us to come up with it and keep it quiet. It does make for good historic reading though!

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I wouldn't say it has to wait, especially after reading vonBayern's post. It is feasible, but to what extent? Pre-paid cells would be great as long as the commo grid was up. And having the ability to walk someone to a specific cache or deliver goods would be great.

I know there are a few on here that are between me and my planned BOL if it came to that. I also know my area is probably between others and their planned BOL. Anyone who has read many of my posts knows where I am from generally speaking and if they have questions pertaining to terrain or other info I can help them with, I'll answer a PM.

As for when TSHTF, I have no problem helping all I can, even if they aren't members here, as long as they don't plan on being a "freeloader". I'll even at least try to get them a hot meal if they are moving on. I won't do anything to endanger my family (and yes I realize accepting a "stranger" can be dangerous) but when I wrote "Rebuilding Survivors", it was more than just a thought, I see it as my duty to do all I can to help rebuild after an event. There were alot of great suggestions in the comments following that article (which made the actual article weak IMO). "Itsonlyaname" had some really valid points for anyone who thinks of offering a "safe haven" that should be weighed in to the decision.

I see it as even if we don't have whole communities, even 2 survivors from different areas are still building blocks to the foundation to rebuild; they are just smaller than small towns, HOAs (if they will be more interested in preparedness than whether you have the correct sod laid, flag pole up, etc), counties, etc.

OK, so slighly off topic, sorry Hoss.

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here are some ideas. I suggest that if these are used in a group that they are discussed face to face before hand.

 

Everyone should have the same map. ones that are hand drawn. (Normal maps should be used only to famialize the individual ). the directions should be mixed up. North can be south or east can be west. That makes the map unless if it winds up in the hands of someone out side the group. Use only a few landmarks.

If the group is to have a meeting place then everyone should know how to get there even without the map. If there are caches there then each person should have their own. when the cache is retrieved then a sign of some sorts should be posted. These could be a colored strips of cloth or notches made on a tree.

Sometimes low tech is the way to go or at least a fall back.

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Awake,

Great addition to the thread.... as always. Low tech is the best in my opinion, it's actually the least likely to be "hacked" or broken by someone outside the group.

 

Hoss, Thanks. I'll apologize in advance for my last "barrage" of comments on the article...lol. I have Faith that good will triumph over evil and Americans will triumph over the crooks in power and have the resolution to rebuild if Nature does some "self-cleaning".

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Several different methods of communication for a family/group to consider for a SHTF event; Native American sign language, American Sign Language, Trail signs and markers, signal flags, morse code, and just code words and phrase.

There have been a few threads on using "danger words" to alert everyone without giving away your intent to the "stranger" or threat. Sign language is perfect for "talking" to each other in the woods while hunting or hiding to avoid a conflict. Morse code may become a primary means of long distance commo if we must revert to a "low tech" system after an event. There are several People on the forum and a few threads I believe that deal with Morse Code.

I'd ask Capt Bart and some of the other Ham Operators for a reference on learning Morse Code, because even if a "TEOTWAWKI" event happens and we lose our normal grid, the phone lines may be salvaged and used as a telegraph line. The power lines could be dangerous, as someone in another locale may figure out how to get some power flowing and try using the established grid network.

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All good thoughts indeed, and Regulator5 hit on something that's a hot topic for me and that's helping others post SHTF. Once upon a time I had the same attitude, perhaps I have been through too much, see too much, or lived too long. I suspect a bit of each applies, but while I am willing to share my knowledge and experience in this setting and pre event, post event you damn well better be someone I know or be bringing something I will need if you show up on my door step as your very likely going to be drawing your last breath. I'm a recluse by nature already and don't trust anyone till I get to know them.

 

Now having said that, if there was some kind of secure signal or code I would be willing to play nice, while at the same time I don't want any maps out there with a dot on it showing my location. Say (and I will use Capt Bart since he's a moderator) for example Capt Bart and I decided to meet pre event, the first meeting would be in a neutral place somewhere between my place and his. Then if we decided we like each other I might visit him at or near his home since I live at my BOL and he doesn't reside at his. This still keeps where I will be unknown until we basically size each other up and decide whether or not we can trust each other or if it's best to just be friends on this forum and leave it at that. Once a level of trust is established then he could know exactly where I will be and how to find me post event.

 

However, if he takes his map and marks my location, and then does the same with someone else (say Regulator5), and he ends up being over taken post event, our locations have then been compromised and are now in the hands of someone we don't know who may well have just killed someone we trust.

 

I do like the idea of being able to assist others, and it's always good to have like minded friends and a plan B, but we need to first establish the rules of engagement to ensure everyone's safety. But under no circumstances would I put up signs or broadcast where I am at.

 

That's my 2 cents worth, and I know I missed something but I have work to get done. LoL

Edited by Dr K30

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for a face to face pre SHTF I'd suggest something like a Dennys. Sit drink coffee and talk, kinda feel each other out as it were.

 

As far as caches go, I would not put anything out for other people until I had an idea as to what they need. Cache would be designated by landmarks...something fairly simple like; mile marker 234, go east to oak tree check base for marker. Marker could be a direction designator to final cache location.

 

As far as a face to face goes, I'd thought about trying to set something up with the people who are in Central Texas...just never got around to it yet.

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Dr K, I agree with the trust issue. I look at the Rebuilding after an event as important as the surviving the event. My situation differs greatly as I do not have to allow someone into my exact BOL to offer help, just a general vicinity (several hundred square miles). My plans have already incorporated this idea and altho it is still a work in progress (just like all my preps) and I've been working on it for awhile.

As for the maps, I like Awake's idea of hand drawn rustic maps that don't necessarily follow true maps but are decodable by those who know the system.

As far as face to face meetings, I've met some from here and it has developed into very good friendships. I know I take risks but to me, the end result is worth the risk to me if an event happens (or when it happens). I also think that most may be a regional event (Katrina, Andrew, etc) and my "family" from here will need some assistance when they GOOD to a safer region (like the Midwest) and may just need a friendly chat to relieve stress and maybe a good home cooked meal to save some of their emergency funds for the rest of their journey. I blame nobody for keeping to themselves, as after an event, trust will be a very valuable commodity and something that by nature will be more rare than rocks from Mars.

 

Von, I agree. If someone needs help and anyone can spare a bit of food to ensure they get a meal, the set up you describe is great. It doesn't give away your BOL and it's a system that can be used anywhere. The old trail marker signs (3 rocks piles with 1 on the side for direction of travel) is awesome and usually doesn't require alot of work and it's so simple, most would overlook it if they weren't predisposed to look for it. Hash marks on trees with a little "imperfection" can offer direction. My family and friends have such a system that was put in place for extended camping/hunting ventures.

 

Many of us have talked about having family scattered around the country (an issue of our technology based society) and the plans are for them to come "home" if an event takes place. Hopefully, we have forewarning to make this move while things are still working relatively normally, if not, I'd like to think that our family here will help our family out there (if possible) and without endangering yourself. Networking here since we are national and international, we can establish "underground rail stations" that if nothing else offers a small bit of food and water. This is just theory and would be a massive undertaking, but we have shown a resolve to survive, now the choice is are we surviving just to breathe or surviving to ensure the survival of our way of life?

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Where I was trying to head before I ran out of time this AM is by meeting with others in your vicinity (such as south and central Texas) we can develop an eventual underground with small circles of folks we feel we can trust that will overlap, if say Capt Bart and I were to connect, I would probably also be connecting with others within a hundred miles or so, as would he, so his circle may encompass further east, and if vonBayern was also in my circle he may have some in his circle further north. It expands across the entire country, slowly perhaps but all within a network of small circles of people who feel they can trust the judgement of those in his circle. From there is't just a matter of sorting out a password (for lack of a better name for it) and of course figuring out communication after an event.

 

Now as for helping the general public, if you can do that without exposing yourself and your family too much I applaud you for it. It's a noble thing and I hope you have the ability to do it. And I can't say I wouldn't entirely, would depend on the situation. Something like hurricane Ike, I sat on my back porch looking at the edge of the storm, watching the lightening, hearing the thunder off in the distance, thought about the people in harms way. and laughed at the irony that we couldn't even get a sprinkle of rain from that massive storm as I walked across my dry crunchy lawn and worried about the fire danger. I could have taken in quite a few with RV's perhaps, but didn't have anyone I knew from that area in my circle and wasn't prepared to just bring in total strangers.

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Dr K, I agree. I think I spoke of the "circles and the ability to connect to others not previously known" in a PM with another. I agree about needing to vett anyone before guaranteed help, I'm willing to help anyone who helps themselves but those who are a freeloader now, will be a freeloader after and it may be harsh, but I feel we as a Nation are better off without them; the "natural cleaning" I referred to earlier.

I know not everyone here agrees with everything I say or do and vice versa, but I see everyone here who is truly joining in the dialogue, offering tips, ideas and thoughts for others and gaining some in return, have proven they are what we need to survive as a society. I will do everything in my power and ability, limited as it may be, to help those People to attain our joint goal of not only "surviving" but thriving as best we can.

Maybe I'm just overly optimistic and idealistic, but it is my hopes and Prayers that we can maintain our morality and humanity even in the worst of times.

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Heheheh, I got it! If a big , hairy guy ever shows up at your door and asks, "who's John Galt?"...

It's me and my Jeep went belly up on the way to Galt's Gulch! Please give me a cookie and point me towards safety!

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Heheheh, I got it! If a big , hairy guy ever shows up at your door and asks, "who's John Galt?"...

It's me and my Jeep went belly up on the way to Galt's Gulch! Please give me a cookie and point me towards safety!

 

LoL, Hoss, after that I might not just give you a bag of cookies but let you borrow the winch truck to go fetch the Jeep!!! LoL

 

 

And Regulator5

I agree completely with that one!! The only thing I might add to the freeloader list though would be politicians, lobbyists, any anyone who objects to them being on that list!! LoL

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And Regulator5

I agree completely with that one!! The only thing I might add to the freeloader list though would be politicians, lobbyists, any anyone who objects to them being on that list!! LoL

 

Dr K, I agree as there are no bigger freeloaders than a politician and their handlers, aka, lobbyists.

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Oh my, oh my!! I can't BELIEVE I did THAT!!!

 

I forgot to include LAWYERS!!!!!!! (hangs head in shame)

 

 

Oh woe is me (sobbing), I don't deserve to survive!!!

 

Oh wait, that's right, we are saving the damn lawyers for target practice!! ROTFL

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LMAO... Dr K, my attorney would agree with you. He says he hates lawyers and to never call him one. He says he is just a man who works in the legal profession, as he can't be that nasty to stab that many people in the back.

Plus let's not forget, many politicians and lobbyists are lawyers, so you had them covered...lol.

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