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Predators in the City

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If any of the old friendly zoo keepers need help, I volunteer to help them...lol

 

Most of them critters I won't get a chance to eat, so if they need it, I'll volunteer. Of course, I would hate to think of the size of roaster I'd need for an elephant, but I sure would enjoy building it knowing what it was for...lol. Of course the Southern zoos would be best, I've seen emails that tell me that they offer recipes on the animal information plaques at each exhibit... sorry, couldn't resist.

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This entire topic is something that I’ve dealt with a little bit and have a few inside views of. First thing is to remember that coyotes are NOT wolves. Most reports of coyotes messing with cattle are actually either feral dog packs or truly wolves. In general coyotes make pretty good neighbors and eat more rats and mice than anything else. They are no danger to people even kids. The Native Americans understood them and honored them in general for their intelligence.

 

Feral dogs are a menace!! I live in the country and city folks are always dumping their mutts out for us to deal with. The big problem with them is that even though they have the instinct to chase and sometimes even kill, they don’t know what to do with their kill and still end up nosing around trying to get in your garbage and such. They become basically insane and just mean as hell before they die.

 

This is in part because of the terrible misery of their life and their total lack of a full set of survival instincts. I’ve killed a lot of them and my blood just boils at the cruelty of people that dump these dogs. Often their mouths will be almost snow white. They are badly anemic because they are INFESTED with parasites like worms, ticks and often the mange. I guess wild animals know what plants to eat to worm themselves and rid their body of these problems. Whatever the cause dogs don’t have it and die a slow awful death when dumped. KILL all stray dogs in your area as soon as things settle down! You do NOT want to watch a loved one die of rabies!

 

The danger of the pet exotic animals is REAL minor. I’ve been around a tiger and even if they go feral they are more likely to harm you by accident than on purpose. Like a dog they have no training and don’t know how to hunt effectively. I doubt that even without people killing them that many will last a year.

 

A 308/30-06 is fine for anything in the world…up to a point. A 12ga is also fine up to a point. The reason they want you to use the major caliber rounds in Africa is simple. You are HUNTING those critters for SPORT. You need to drop them quick and make it easy for the guides people to gather your “trophy” in. If all you want to do is KILL them you don’t need the big guns. Even an elephant will die if you shoot it two or three times with a 30 cal. The other reason you need the big guns is because you are going to do something that is totally stupid from a survival stand point!

 

If I KNOW there is a lion in an area where I have limited vision…YOU CAN’T DRAG ME IN THERE!!! If I’m shooting an elephant I want lots of big trees close together for me to hide behind…NOT an open shot out in the savanna! Nearly everything people think that they KNOW about hunting needs to go out the window as soon as the balloon goes up. If you have a bad cat in your area, bait it into the open and shoot it from a long ways off. If you have any sort of big mean critters around you will be better served by a shotgun than ANY rifle.

 

If the critter is far enough away to require a rifle then you should either snuff it out of leave it alone. Either way it isn’t an immediate threat to you. If on the other hand you walk up on a big bear or cat you want a shotgun so you can put lots of holes in it real fast!! I usually carry a shotgun with 4buck, 00buck, SLUG in that order for protection. If the first two rounds haven’t stopped it I want something BIGGER and with more penitration and a slug is bigger. I understand that some of the new sabot slugs are VERY impressive stoppers. I know Barnes used to offer one that would stop a car Almost…think 50cal BMG bullet in a sabot!!! Out of a rifled barrel they would stop nearly anything out to la hundred yards or so. I’ve been out of the biz for a long time now and don’t know what’s out there now. I have a friend that has taken 3 elephants now and he uses a 460 in a double rifle. He uses it on all the bigger African game. His guide carries a Holland and Holland in some monstrous caliber but then there are two with shotguns watching their backs.

 

I personally LIKE having coyotes around. They keep a lot of pests under control including feral cats. People always talk about feral dogs but cats are even worse if you have birds. My coyotes are good neighbors. That said I don’t leave my Yorkie out at night unsupervised. She would make a tasty snack.

 

Most of the problem critters are best handled with traps and snares. A spear or nice long club is all you need to dispatch them. After the balloon goes up I will probably eat a lot of dog! They are just the right size for a meal. You kill a deer and then have to do something with all that meat and in the south without refrigeration that means do it TODAY! The cats are safe from me though…unless I’m nearly starving…they are tough and gamey tasting as hell! Raccoons are that way too. Possums taste good but DAYMN they are just such nasty little buggers!

 

PS...a 9mm is not in the same league as a 45 BUT it isn't the diameter that's the problem. Smaller is better IF it is super-sonic. A 45 drills a hole in a body. A 357 mag blows the hell out of it. Hydro-shock is deadly. Your body is mostly water and the difference between a gut or lung shot with a 45 versus a 357 mag is HUGE. The repair after a 45 round is about like fixing someone that has been run through with a thin sword. The 357 mag has turned the tissues into pulp. Hit in the liver of kidney with a 45 and they can fix it up. A high velocity round destroys it.

 

The .223/5.56 is a tiny little bullet. It is the nearly mach 5 speed that makes it so rough on the body. A 357 is about mach 2 while the 45 is at about .9 mach. Having a sonic boom shock wave go into or through your body really sucks...sorta like shooting someone with a 45ACP and THEN shoving a cherry bomb into the hole!

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Not me. I type MUCH faster than I think; that is part of my genius. Something about 'enough monkeys at enough typewriters .....':rolleyes:

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

I started out as a hunter-pecker but over the years I've gotten FAST. I write a lot for a lot of different places and for me typing is a lot like talking and about the same speed. It is mostly effortless. It helps a lot that I don't talk very fast though...

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Dan, I agree the exotic portion of this thread was more for fun, they are a very minor threat in the US. Coyotes around my area do mess with cattle, calves anyway, and they've had some issues with the hog farms as well. We have very few farmers in my area who have sheep, so I don't hear much on them.

I will rely more on traps and snares to catch game in a survival situation. They do not require the time and energy that hunting does, plus if I am trying to remain hidden, they are quieter. Coyotes do love a good meal of cat. Some of the best trap bait I use for them is cat gut.

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Man, the feral hogs we have around here EAT dogs and coyotes! The domestic ones are pretty tough to. I bet the coyotes that are messing with the calves are dogs or wolves. We raise a pretty rough sort of cattle around here though. Lots of horns and attitude. Dairy cattle might be different. You would not believe what a longhorn does to a wolf much less a coyote. They can swing them horns like golf clubs!

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Wolves aren't around IN. I know a few have been reintroduced but there are only 2 that I know of within 40 miles. Tracks say 'yote, possibly a coy-dog. They usually get the little pigs or a lone gilt that was separated for breeding. I agree, hogs, whether feral or domestic, are some mean SOBs...lol. We mostly have holsteins and some angus cattle around me. Some of the farmers are adding a llama to the herds for protection. I have a few farmers that pay small bounties on coyotes and several let me hunt their ground in return for trapping coyotes.

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Man, the feral hogs we have around here EAT dogs and coyotes! The domestic ones are pretty tough to. I bet the coyotes that are messing with the calves are dogs or wolves. We raise a pretty rough sort of cattle around here though. Lots of horns and attitude. Dairy cattle might be different. You would not believe what a longhorn does to a wolf much less a coyote. They can swing them horns like golf clubs!

 

Had a relative some years (decades) back that was killed by a domestic hog. All hogs are dangerous and wild hogs are the worse. As to the coyote, I agree they are relatively harmless IF they are pure coyote. I saw a special some weeks ago where they were pointing out that many of the aggressive coyote were a coyote-wolf mix. No one was sure why that was happening - they would have expected the wolf to simply kill the coyote but apparently that was not the case. The resulting hybrid was bigger, stronger and more aggressive than a pure coyote and was also fertile. Given that they were not "mules" a new species was developing. Not a comforting thought.

 

I have a friend that has taken 3 elephants now and he uses a 460 in a double rifle.

 

Also, I agree with you about the shotguns but I do dearly lust in my heart for your friends double rifle. I have always thought those were fabulous weapons.

 

By the way, your posts reinforce my thought that if I can only have one, it will be a shotgun.

 

Thanks for the posts.

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Capt Bart, I have a Moss. 500 with three barrels that with the different stocks will cover you far ANY situation. 1 181/2" riot barrel, 1 changeable choke barrel(Mine has an old school poly choke), and one slug barrel with rifle sights. There is NOTHING that one barrel or another won't take care of. The new rifles slug barrels with the high tech saboted slugs and scopes are good WAY out there! They are a little like the old buffalo guns with a mortar like trajectory but people and deer are pretty big targets and when that hunk of lead gets there it does a nice job. I'm about to add a couple of 12ga chamber adapters to my pack and that will allow me to shoot 22lr and 357 mag out of my pump as single shots for dispatching close range game.

 

I have read that some of the dog coyote mixes are pretty rough as well. In East Texas most cattlemen that are selling meat and not breeding stock have mixed breed cattle. The Brahma Bulls are great and throw a big tough calf but the longhorns seem to be making a comeback. We have a few Brahngus (Brahma/Angus mix) and a couple of just Angus breeders but they are selling breeding stock rather than at auction by the pound.

 

According to Texas Parks and Wildlife we don't have wolves, panthers or bears here either BUT...I've seen the wolves and KNOW the difference, I've seen a big cat and there aren't any cats that are over 6' long that aren't some sort of cougar,jaguar/mountain lion/panther...The bear was harder to deny, one got hit and killed by a car north of here.

 

I almost never go walking without some sort of staff and a pistola. Hogs actually are ok if you have a staff. Their nose is pretty sensitive and unless they think you are after their little ones they generally will let you back away. Been there done that...pigs are SMART.

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Capt, are they finding hybrids or are the coyotes "evolving"? I am truly curious about that. I'm not sure about how long the coyotes have been expanding their habitat "naturally" (without help from dnr to control deer populations) and if they are needing to bring down down bigger game or livestock, could/would they grow bigger? Also, like discussed, the introduction of the dogs would add some size....

 

I know the DNR in Indiana got into some trouble quite some time ago, when they were trying to get permission to reintroduce wolves. They made the comment that they could bring in a few with the coyotes they were releasing so wouldn't really need a "separate" operation and that they had by "accident" caught and released a few young wolves. This created a stir as they admitted they broke the law. It's illegal to release non native species in Indiana and coyotes weren't native. To me, why introduce a non native predator to control deer when you can just up the deer harvest for hunters and collect the license fees? They supposedly also released rattlesnakes not long ago to control the turkey population because the snakes would eat turkey eggs(??).

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LOL@Hoss... I know. States are complaining about needing revenue; making higher quotas for tickets/infractions to raise revenue and yet they won't put forth some extra voluntary revenue by allowing hunters to purchase extra tags.

Next we'll discover the "blue tongue" disease was intentionally brought over to control the deer herds. I know it's a stretch, but I won't put anything past them anymore.

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They would go to any lengths to avoid admitting that hunting is a good thing! While I don't mind allowing native species to come back, introducing foreign species is always a receipt for disaster. Even the "Yellowstone Wolves" are turning into a problem.

Seems the Canadian Gray wolf is NOT native to Yellowstone. It was a Rocky Mountain Wolf (Red wolf I think but not sure) that was native to Yellowstone but the Canadian Gray is a bigger more aggressive wolf and has run out all the native wolves left. Ah, tree huggers at work.

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