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Regulator5

Predators in the City

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I have read of several Alaskan guides who carry 12 GA as backup guns for their hunters. In close it works on any American animal. I suspect it would work very well on the 'soft skinned' African game as well. A 12 gauge is going to throw about an .729 caliber, 583 grain chunk of lead.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_%28bore_diameter%29

 

I'd be worried about rhino, water buffalo and elephant just because I don't want to be that bloody close to a ticked off rhino! As an up close and personal defense weapon I have to believe my shotgun is as good as a .375 for the commonly held African "pets". For the tough skinned critters, I would never bet on a quick stop, not even from my .375 Mag.

 

I do not consider the African Big 5 as THE driver in a self defense gun and I do think a 12 with slugs will get the job done on the meat eaters.

 

The question for the survivalist is just how big a threat the "pets" are to your survival. I suspect the feral dog pack is at the top of the list for the urban prepper. That is back where a 5.56 semi-auto works well. (No, I haven't changed my mind on the AR platform) An A-10/PTR91/M1A or equivalent in .308 or even a .22LR is needed. Again, multiple shots gets important when up against a pack. That would be the only drawback to a shotgun with the possible exception of the Kel Tec KSG; limited magazine capacity. An AK-47 with a 30 round mag makes sense here as would the pistol carbines or even an M1 Carbine as well. I just like the increased flexibility of the .308 but the others get the job done.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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I agree Capt, the African exotic pets aren't real high on my "expected" encounters. It was a valid point, especially for urban areas where it seems to have more of the exotic crowd (especially if near hollywood...lol). I'd definitely start considering the 338 Lapua if I thought I would be coming upon many of the bigger predators, but my main concern, outside the 2 legged type, are feral dogs and their wild canine cousins, coyotes and wolves.

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I have read of several Alaskan guides who carry 12 GA as backup guns for their hunters. In close it works on any American animal. I suspect it would work very well on the 'soft skinned' African game as well... The question for the survivalist is just how big a threat the "pets" are to your survival.

 

Good points! First, that you need to focus on what you're going to use the weapon for. Are you HUNTING the big game, or are you just interested in being able to stop it from attacking if it tries to hunt you? Because those are two entirely different scenarios, and therefore require different approaches.

 

Along those lines, what are you most likely to run into? Even in my post, while I find the exotic pets potentially alarming, I also pointed out that we have about 10 times the number of cougars in the US as we do tigers - and, in fact, in my area, we have at least as many cougars as there are tigers in the entire country. So spending all my time thinking about tigers is not that useful. But being prepared for cougars actually has some merit, and if my cougar self-defense options could also put off a tiger, well, that's just icing on the cake!

 

Feral dog packs are rather frightening to contemplate. If they know enough to associate guns as being dangerous or painful to them, then almost any self-defense weapon could potentially frighten them off if you shoot once or twice. But if they are more aggressive, less fearful, or just that hungry, then you do need to figure out a way to disable a bunch of them in a hurry. This is also worth considering if your plan isn't just to stop an attack, but to eliminate the threat permanently at the first encounter.

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OC, if I know any of the big predators are in my area, I will be hunting them. Kicking the idea(s) around about the exotics was more just a "back of the mind" thought to keep but not a primary concern. feral dogs have been an issue in my home area before and we just got a group together and went out. They are no longer a problem, altho I have heard there is another pack forming or becoming a problem (15 years later). The biggest problem with feral dogs, you don't know what they were used to before they went feral. After an event, there could be hunting dogs mixed in which won't make them gunshy and ex-pets think of the human scent as the sign post for a diner.

The dogs will be hunted as much as they hunt after a few days, especially in the city full of unprepared people (not all but most). Once an event triggers and the population can't get their free food, and have looted everything; "Rover" will probably be high on the menu.

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I don't know if I'd want to try hunting as much as trapping something like a tiger. Dig a deep pit, put in spiked poles, top with offal, and then hide the hole from sight. Might be effective on other predators, too, if you don't have the appropriate firepower.

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I advocate trapping...alot...lol. I'm not worried about firepower, I have a few tools at my disposal I am more than comfortable with to take them.

I trap about every critter the Midwest has. I wish I could go back in time and hang out and explore with Kenton, Boone, Bridger, Carson, etc.

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I advocate trapping...alot...lol. I'm not worried about firepower, I have a few tools at my disposal I am more than comfortable with to take them.

I trap about every critter the Midwest has. I wish I could go back in time and hang out and explore with Kenton, Boone, Bridger, Carson, etc.

 

Hang out and explore???? Don't you mean hunt virgin territory!

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That too....lol. I just would like to be able to learn from those guys. I am confidant in my abilities but I doubt I could fetch water for them.

 

I'd agree except for the lack of toilet paper.....spending your whole life with that not so clean feeling, no thanks!

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LOL@Don... ok, I will give you that point.

 

Sometimes you have to laugh.......to take a break from the crying!

 

I'm afraid the predators that we will really be facing will require big bore ballot boxes.....I'm going to have to stop watching TV till the election is over, this $41+ is killing me with the ads....I have the Todd Akin Claire McCaskil crap here to make it worse!

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Good luck with that.... I agree that they just ruin the relaxation I get from the few hours a week I watch. To stay with the "old days" theme, I don't have much use for snakeoil salesmen.

Edited by Regulator5

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I don't know if I'd want to try hunting as much as trapping something like a tiger. Dig a deep pit, put in spiked poles, top with offal, and then hide the hole from sight. Might be effective on other predators, too, if you don't have the appropriate firepower.

 

I agree but with a caution. Depending on where you are, the predator paths that you want to trap may also be people pathways. A punji stick trap is effective but you don't want to get a neighbor. A sign, on both sides of the trap, that warns of the trap could save an innocent passerby a lot of pain. A simple "animal trap 15 feet ahead" should be enough warning. Of course if there is no one around it probably isn't needed but then we wouldn't be talking "in the city"!

 

Just a thought.

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DonDon and Reg5,

My TEA party friends are all aghast that I won't watch the debates. I keep telling them I can't afford to keep buying new TV sets and if I try watching that crap I'd end up throwing something through the screen! I can barely stand the smirks and condescension in these clowns poses in short news stories. I'd never make a 90 minute debate.

 

Is it just me or does OBozo's pose on that stage, in front of the Greek columns remind you of 'Il Duce' (Mussolini)?:confused:

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Capt I agree. I truly haven't seen anything from either one of them that even gives me any good vibes. They are both marxists, IMO, but romney hasn't committed treason yet and I know they worry about their re-election so are usually a safer bet for their first term, they have nothing to lose if re-elected. I'm still holding out hope a true LEADER will get the nod to run for office.

This election may be moot anyway... I'm not sure we as a nation will survive the near future and if they keep steering us towards the cliff, the People will not be able to save the country. The 5th column of the media are doing all they can to cripple us from the inside.

I'll save my political discussions for the other forum section tho....lol.

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As too adding offal to animal traps..... DON'T! If I trap an animal during a long term event (which is where the issue about exotics stems from), it'll be on the menu chances are. Using offal will ruin the meat and thus take away from the food supplies. Is tiger/lion edible.... probably not normally, but I don't eat coyote now but Lewis and Clark did and cougar was considered a delicacy.

The reason offal was used on punji traps was they were normally employed as booby traps in guerrilla actions and wounded the victim. The offal was used to cause a more serious issue of infection, which would keep the injured out of the action longer and use up more resources.

If making a punji trap, harden the sharpened ends with fire and if possible, rig some barbs to hold the stakes in. Even if the animal escapes the pit, the stakes being rigged to remain impaled will hinder its ability and you may get lucky for it to mave just right to render a fatal internal injury. A tiger would require a very big and deep pit to keep it from jumping out and that would burn ALOT of calories if being dug by hand. I would probably rig a deadfall or use a snare made with 1/8 or 1/4" cable with a spring board attached if I was trying to utilize a trap for a large predator. The other option is the actual bear traps, as after an event, the game laws become null and void and survival trumps conservation per se.

Altho in a long term event, the exotics could become an issue; to me it is a minimal threat. It does allow some off beat discussion to help create a more "imaginative" break from normal discussion. For me anyway, it's a viable topic but more for just taking a step back from the more pressing issues and gives me a "break".

There are several improvised traps that can be created in an urban enviroment similiar to the punji pit for common critters; a can/pipe with nails driven in at a downward angle and baited at the bottom will hold most small game. Even just drilling a hole and placing aluminum foil in the bottom to reflect light will yield some coons. They grab the "shiny" treasure and won't let go. The hole needs to allow them to place a paw in flat but once they make a "fist" to grab the foil, their paw gets stuck. It's not a guarantee trap, but does have some successes, even if just holding it long enough for you to get close enough to utilize a 22.

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Reg,

agreed, a pit in the city is probably NOT very doable: I don't fancy digging in concrete covered ground anyway. If you've ever seen the Disney movie, 'Swiss Family Robinson' the tiger pit was HUGE and the cat still go out. Dead falls are more likely to be workable. Sign still required.

 

I honestly wasn't thinking of the poison used on punji sticks. You are quite correct about that, poor choice on my part. Thank you.

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Capt, why we all post; you've added things/thoughts that I have overlooked or taken for granted in the past also. Why I really like this site, as there are enough People who know what to do, we can fill in for each other on overlooked or missed points on just about every topic. I know I miss points (mind works alot faster than my typing, so you know my typing is about 1/2 word a minute...lol).

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I know I miss points (mind works alot faster than my typing, so you know my typing is about 1/2 word a minute...lol).

 

Not me. I type MUCH faster than I think; that is part of my genius. Something about 'enough monkeys at enough typewriters .....':rolleyes:

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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hi all

you may get your chance,at eating tiger, ect.what will they do with all the zoo animals?i know what they should do.but will they?they're not use to hunting,so children will be first on there list!!

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In the major citys like San Antonio or San Diego...they're gonna have to get out of those pit areas first.

 

Its the ones that are in the small private ones that I'm worried about.

vonB,

I worry about some well meaning zoo worker deciding to let the animals "live" after the zoo can no longer provide for them. Turning 'fluffy' lose is bad enough. Letting the 'lions and tigers and bears' (oh, my) go would be a disaster. Future paleontologist will be amazed at the fact that all these animals 'reintroduced' into North America.

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I've thought about the 'kindly' ol zoo keeper as well. My main hope in that regard is that some group will kill them for meat before then.

 

We have enough of a problem with non native critters now as it is...

Anacondas in the Everglades are spreading from Florida across to Alabama and Mississippi, Nutria <swamp rat> are up from Central America and down in the swamps of Louisiana...and thats not counting fire ants, several species of fish, or assorted plants.

 

I can see lions settling into the great plains region quite happily. Tigers in the Everglades or maybe even the Rocky Mnts.

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