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Rifles for the apoyclypse

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You know, Vis, I was grinding over your very thought. I'm doing a bugout test into the desert with some friends this weekend, and I've been considering which guns to carry. I settled on a 12 gauge shotgun and my Glock 20 (10mm). I'll carry 32 rounds if birdshot, buckshot, and rifled deer slugs for the shotgun (more of the bird and buck than slugs), and four 15 round mags for the Glock.

 

The shotgun was a no brainer. Wth the chosen ammo load I can hunt doves and quail (the most plentiful game birds in the desert), or take down a deer. And the self-defense applications are obvious.

 

The 10mm was a harder choice. It's not a widely used caliber and scrounging for ammo would be hard. However, its most likely use in my scenario this weekend is against predatory animals if the shotgun isn't deployed. The 10mm fits the "hunter's companion" role, and can still be used for defense.

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Vis,

We have had these discussions and I always find them interesting. As always, the answer is a "that depends". It depends on climate, location, number and types of preditors, etc. as well as where you are bugging out from and the location to which you are going. The problem with a firearm (any tool, actually) is that it is tailored for one or a few missions. Everything else is a compromise. The arms used to get out of Miami must meet different needs than getting out of Anchorage.

 

If you are going to a prepared BOL, then you have adequate firearms there for your survival needs and the trip is your focus. If you are E&E-ing away from your BOL under pressure, not only do you have to successfully E&E out but you must survive when you get to a different, possibly unprepared, site. I have a few 'rules of thumb' that I always apply.

 

The first is that you should have a handgun of sufficient caliber to defeat the nastiest predator you must face in your area. Bear, wolf, wild pig, alligator, big cat or what ever it is, you must be able to deal with it with your sidearm. Depending on your answer there, you are looking at a revolver or pistol caliber of .38 or better. I'm happiest with a .357 Mag or .40 on up but that's me. Remember, the handgun is your "where did that (name least favorite predator here) come from and how did it get so bloody close" solution. You won't ALWAYS have a rifle in your hand but you SHOULD always have your sidearm on your hip.

 

As a long gun, a shotgun brings a lot of flexibility to the party. In the tall and uncut it is a good choice. If you are trying to get out of a city, a carbine (perhaps to match your sidearm) may be a better choice. Here even a .22LR could be quite useful as long as it is backed up by a major caliber handgun. If you can find it, a shotgun/.22LR over/under is not bad unless you see the need for fighting your way out of a tight spot.

 

For Houston, I like a .30 caliber long arm. AK-47 or PTR-91 or M1 Carbine is an excellent 'general purpose' long gun with a lot of flexibility for defense and hunting. Being semi-auto they each provide an improved level of self defense. Ideally you'd carry your "3 gun battery" plus a .22 but that assumes you have transportation. If you're on foot that gets interesting. I suspect I'd carry the PTR91 and the .45 ACP. 200 rds for the PTR, 50 rds for the .45. That is bare minimum but both calibers are common enough to allow for resupply. My lady will have a 9mm and probably a .22 or a 20 gauge.

 

Alternatives - .45 Colt with .45 Colt lever gun or 45-70 Marlin lever gun. The long gun choice depends on country. Bear country, I'll have that 45-70.

 

Food for thought - I look forward to a spirited discussion.

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I travel a lot now for work. So, I am assuming at some point in time, we will be in a metro-suburban area, when things turn to schumer. I also spend a lot of time in my home state of California, so, if I take what we normally carry on trips, I become an instant felon, the minute I hit the state line. That is not appealing to me. So, in general, I usually have a Mini-14 with both 10 and 20 round mags, the 20s, go in a lock box for the duration of our California stay. I have six plus 10 round mags for each Glock 9mm we have with us, plus some others in the lock box.(just in case things get really interesting.

I also make sure we have a 12 guage with us and plenty of ammo for all calibers, cleaning kits in the "Go Box", which goes with us every time we travel in a vehicle. I am hoping it will be "enough" to see us home. If not, we have places and people we can hunker down with, until things get a bit more stable. I do believe most of what passes for "zombies" will most likely never make it out of their urban lairs.

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My choice would be my Remington 7615 Police model with the factory ghost ring sights for backup, and the 3x9 Leupold on it to use as long as possible. I can hold 3/4" groups at 100yds with Black Hills ammo and hit 12oz cans nearly every shot at the same range with cheap Herters HP ammo without adjusting the scope. I've taken coyotes with it out to 300yds. I have the factory trigger springs for spares, and put a Timney kit for an 870 in it for a 2.5lb trigger pull.

 

Nothing is perfect, but to me this is the best compromise. FMJ bullets for smaller game if necessary, 60gr Nosler Partitions or 65gr Sierra Gamekings for bigger game, AR clips and a 5.56 chamber for versatility, 870 pump design for reliability. I grew up on 870 shotguns so it is quicker to get on target for me than an AR platform.

 

If we were packing guns and ammo on our backs we'd have my carbine and my girlfriend's 10-22. If we weren't limited on weight we'd have a 243, couple 270's, and about 6 22LR rifles plus the less common calibers.

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I must have been Russian in a past life. My Kill Kit is, from long to short range 1; mosin nagant 2;sks 3;ruger 10-22(sounds russian) 4; Tokarev 7.62x25 and of course a mossberg 500 12 gague.

If i were bugging out I'd limit it to the 10-22 first and the tokarev. I'd tote the sks till the ammo play'd out or the weight got in the way.

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I like pistol caliber long guns. No need to worry about multiple types of ammo, they are light, some are easily concealable and some use the exact same clip as certain pistols for further interchangeability.

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Pig,

The Russians have a LONG history of surviving the unthinkable. Not bad choices IF you have the ammo you need.

 

Breaker and Pig,

Where are you leaving from and where are you going to? It makes a difference. In my case, I'd be leaving my Bug In spot for the tall and uncut. Hopefully I'd get out BEFORE I was forced out but if not, I have a great deal of faith that the Heckler and Koch will provide sufficient firepower to suppress any bad guys.

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Hey Capt., we have a BOL about 60 miles away. We hope to drive there as soon as it goes down, but if unable we will over land it. There are ways to get there that are wilderness(river bottoms) and I know may way around. I THINK we can cover that distance in around two weeks, maybe not, but we will take it as it comes.

 

As far as ammo goes; barring extended fire fights(and I don't intend to be in ANY) my unborn grand kids shouldn't ever run out.

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Thank You for your service.

Around that time I was giving $2.49 for a 20 count box of 7.62x39.......then came Obama, or rather then came the point the takers out numbered the workers. Sad part is I think they'll do it again...oh well bought all these preps for something.

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I think the lesson here is catch it cheap and stack it deep. I try to standardize for common calibers (no 41 caliber magnum revolvers in my vault, for instance) and stick with them when I (rarely) pick up something new to me. Everything is going up in price and I have noticed the ammo selection is getting kind of sparse in some calibers, even at WalMart. I think this election thing has a few people nervous for some crazy reason.

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Texas,

 

Yep, all sorts of stuff back ordered and it is the most common calibers. I already have my survival rounds.

 

There are a few things that I like to shoot but I'm under no delusion about having it for survival reasons. I don't have any .44-40 but I want some for history affections. Other stuff ..... well .... when I corner the market on lead I'll be able to ration it out and keep the value up!:D

 

 

Just saying .....

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Auto,

If I had to bug out with one gun it would be in 22lr just for the reason that I can easily carry a few thousand rounds with me.

Again it is a location thing. First there is nothing wrong with a .22lr provided you have a sidearm sized to provide worse case predator protection. I don't usually buy into the "and I can carry a bunch" argument. If the round is properly sized, you don't need 3 to 5 rounds per take down. If you NEED 5 rounds for a kill, you've thrown away much of the value of the extra rounds. Still, a .22 provides a solid small animal harvester, is decent for self-defense against man sized critters and smaller, at a longer range than a sidearm, is lightweight and will be extremely useful in a survival role.

Around my neck of the woods, if I could have ONLY one it would probably be a pistol round carbine or a 30-30. I'd prefer a .308 and a .22 and a shotgun. My pistol is of course a given in .45 or .358 Mag.

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That's why I really like the little 15oz 22 pack rifle I put together from the Crickett and Ruta Locura kit. I can keep my more powerful rifle and handgun and still have a 22LR.

 

Catfish,

best combination. I have to investigate a light weight .22 for the BOB.

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Catfish,

best combination. I have to investigate a light weight .22 for the BOB.

 

Thanks, my thoughts exactly. The downside of my rifle is the cost. I could have bought a 10-22 takedown for the same money. Still I'm happy with my purchase and love the weight of it. The sights are darn good also, I like a peep sight and a finer front sight with a long sight plane for trying to shoot small targets. The fiber optics on most newer rifles are nice, but not as precise for longer range on tiny targets.

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wardog,

boy do I understand that .... Back in my field support days, I used to carry a good sized pipe wrench in my computer repair kit. When folks asked what it was for I'd say "it's an attitude adjustment tool for sys ops!" After I explained its use, I never needed it!B)

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I have seen a lot of votes for the AR-15/M-4 platform but I haven't seen the any arguments that mirror my reasons for choosing it.

 

1) Versatility: I can put at least 3 different types of ammo through mine with two uppers, one adapter and only one purchase from an FFL. Those rounds are 5.56/.223, .22LR and 300AAC Blackout (300 Whisper works too). If I was really serious I could get a dedicated 22LR upper.

 

2) Accuracy: [with my configuration] I hold 1 MOA accuracy out to 200yrds with M855 and under 3 MOA at 500yrds. If I'm using my 69gr match ammo, I'm driving tacks at anything under 500 (I need to go to a longer range to get more data).

 

3) Ammo Availability: Granted not much of an argument if you are considering something chambered in .308, but it's a lot easier to find than .416 Barret.

 

4) Resource Consumption: I reload, and I can get 200+ rounds out of a pound of powder vs. 100+ per pound if I'm loading .308. Before the comments start rolling in, this is VERY over simplified and there are a lot of other variables to consider as well.

 

Tying this all together... I have got country that I plan to get to if TSHTF but I need to get there first! Being able to adapt and overcome with as few things as possible is the name of my game. For the urban situation I have the 300BLK upper with 220gr subsonic rounds, and I can switch to 125-180gr supersonic for hunting large game (legally even) with ballistics that are better than 7.62 Russian. I've got decent range with the 5.56, pop in the adapter and I'm now plinking or hunting small game. This does not handle everything, but this one platform does handle a lot. If I had to choose one rifle/carbine... the AR-15 is it.

 

Oh... I can also put the Tactilite T1 upper on it and have either a .338 Lapua, .406 CheyTac, .416 Barret or 50BMG bolt gun as well!!! Now I could handle anything! :P

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