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jerry9491

Urban Advantages?

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Thanks guys, I understand what you're all saying, though it sounded better in my head. Reading all your comments made me realise what a douche I sounded like LOL. I'd attempt to explain myself, but the same would probably end up happening again. ;) I'm stupid like that, haha.

Misti,

 

Not at all stupid. Stupid is not paying attention and running around like some mall ninja. Those of us who have been in two way lead exchanges do our best to ensure that no one we care about ever has to have those experiences. No one thinks less of anyone who says something that we think is in error. If we can discuss it and learn from each other it is good. I have learned a lot from these guys and I'm an old dinosaur. Like DonDon said,"Be easy on yourself."

 

Someone (OC I think?) recommended Redshirts over in another forum. I'm reading it now and laughing myself silly. It is a look of what the effect of a Hollywood script would be in real life; here the script of a 'Star Trek' like show is effecting the future and the guys in the 'red shirts' on the away teams are NOT happy about it! That is my problem with a lot of the TV shows. It is poor theater for a fully prepared individual to live comfortably for a year or two until everything is restored. It is much better drama when the unprepared make it. Trouble is, Luck is a lousy Plan A and Hollywood uses it to create drama and have grandstanding heroes survive incredible situations (Rambo cleaning out a gunshot wound on himself with smokeless powder - REALLY?) and make money for the producers. Unfortunately, although it may make folks 'prep aware' it also teaches them that they can depend on luck to survive. It also teaches some really, really BAD ideas about how to survive.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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I've never been in a gunfight but have had a gun pulled on me 3 times.

Made me understand some things:

A: I think I may be allergic to lead

B: I don't want to find out if I am

C: Delivering a FedEx package is NOT a good way to die

 

I also have a bad habit of being a "peacemaker" and trying to talk crazy people back into sanity.

So far I've been successful but I try not to do it as much nowdays.

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I've never been in a gunfight but have had a gun pulled on me 3 times.

Made me understand some things:

A: I think I may be allergic to lead

B: I don't want to find out if I am

C: Delivering a FedEx package is NOT a good way to die

 

I also have a bad habit of being a "peacemaker" and trying to talk crazy people back into sanity.

So far I've been successful but I try not to do it as much nowdays.

 

Kinda Funny. Talking someone back to sanity really only works, i think, if that person is capable of listening and understanding what you say. In my experience, anyone who needs to be 'talked down' is either drunk or high as a kite, with too much anger too ignore.

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I can be VERY persuassive when the guy is 6ft 4, a rugby player, and pointing a .38 at my nose.

Sometimes it comes down to "no other choice". I didn't volunteer by any stretch of the imagination.

Dad was a Marine and that's the first thing I remember him saying to me, "never volunteer".

You shoulda heard my facts of life speech.. "You remember what your brother did? Yes sir. Good, don't screw up like your brother". Short on words, but effective!

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Well, 'cos I've had a couple and felt like I'd post, I'll explain what I meant... (Or thought I meant)

If you were one of the first to know that TSHHTF, or in direct line of someone who knew (scientist, military personnel, etc) and was kind enough to share, you would amass a group. By which I mean your close friends and family. (Hopefully you don't have heaps of close friends because I believe your best chances of survival is a small group)

And by raid, I didn't mean, 'STORM THE PLACE, GRAB SUPPLIES! RA RA RA!'

I meant tell your group, steal what you can ('cos in 24 hours noones going to care or remember), as legally, a store clerk or owner can't touch or stop you from leaving the store, allowing you to grab any extra or forgotten supplies.

Hope that cleared what I meant. :D

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I meant tell your group, steal what you can ('cos in 24 hours noones going to care or remember), as legally, a store clerk or owner can't touch or stop you from leaving the store, allowing you to grab any extra or forgotten supplies.

 

Misti,

Yep, better but you still have some misconceptions here. First, breaking the law prior to the complete breakdown of law enforcement is a good way to ride out TSHTF event from a jail cell. Hard to prep from the inside of a cell. Another problem, I don't know who told you that the clerk can't stop you but they obviously were NOT talking about Texas or any other 'stand your ground' state. Around here, a clerk shoots a shop lifter every couple of months. This is still a VERY poor idea. Finally, items taken prior to the collapse of civilization IS theft, is morally wrong and is unjustifiable. You could be stealing the stuff someone has prepared for their own survival and if it is me you are trying to take from, I assure you that I will 'shoot back first!' Once everything has collapsed, anything found laying around is fair game (perhaps - depends on a lot of things) but prior to that you are taking advantage of another person's work to cover your own lack of preparation. I wouldn't want to deal with that guilt.

 

As to notifying others, consider that with care. If you have a group, establish a 'calling tree'. Each person called makes no more than one or two calls. Time spent on the telephone is NOT time spent preparing to Bug Out. If you spend time organizing your group you may forfeit the advantage that early notification gave you. A lot depends on when, where and how TSHTF but you can only depend on the things you have personally acquired before the balloon goes up. You may not be the only one who can read the signs and a mob scene at the local "mega mart" is not survival smart. Consider what you would do if you DON'T get advance notice and prep that way. Your life and the lives of your loved ones may depend on your choices.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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MistiKmaN, Capt is right. You better avoid being in Texas with that sort of idea. I know a guy that basically put a deer stand up outside of his business building after the Castle law or stand your ground law (Whatever you want to call it) took effect. He just started hunting thieves over a baited plot! He popped one and then a couple weeks later popped another one before the crack heads figured out that the laws in Texas had changed! Texas believes that you have the right to defend your PROPERTY. Man that 7mm magnum made a great one shot stopper for crack heads at 75 yards!! He wasn't even taken to the office to talk to about it much less prosecuted.

 

The biggest problem that I think is going to befall a lot of well prepared people is going to be that they don't understand the difference between WAR and survival. They are going to have all this big hot GI Joe weaponry and not grasp that unlike in a war, WINNING means not dying. In a war you have objectives that are more important than any individuals life.

 

The military has 10 or more people in various support positions for every one on the lines activly in battle. If you are in battle you have people supplying you so you usually have more ammo and or food on the way so you only have to use a minimal amount of conservation of supplies. You can expect air-support and maybe evac if things get too messed up. If you get a bobo you holler for a corpsman and he will have you airlifted ASAP. If you don't die pretty quick you will probably make it.

 

A survivalist or group in a survival situation can all too easily win the battle and lose the war. If they shoot all their ammo up today there isn't going to be an air drop or supply truck rolling in. If you get shot, even a 22lr in the gut, you will DIE. It will be slow, painful and almost certain unless you have a doctor AND serious medical supplies on hand. Even a flesh wound may do you in. There aren't going to be any IV antibiotics and if you get an infection you are just screed. Read up on the medical situation during the Civil War and you will have some slight idea. Oh and no anesthetics means while they hack your infected arm off you get to watch and cheer them on.

 

After everyone gets to watch someone die from some wound that now would be of little consequence people will stop talking about fire fights. In nature there are LOTS and LOTS of rabbits and only a few wolves. Dumb boys that think its fun to mess with people will learn something that was common in the old west. There is a good reason why Billy the Kid never became Old Man Bill.

 

Don't kid yourself about how tough you are nobody can stay in a Full Combat Mode for weeks on end and survive! Death from your own hand or just not caring is still not surviving.

 

There are only a couple of advantages to urban survival. If you can make contacts outside that will take you in then you can try to hold up and just HIDE until things level out and then walk out. If you have the money then you ought to buy a place out in a rural setting but the basic fact is that not everyone can afford that so you HAVE to go to plan B.

 

Plan B:

 

Step 1

Make some friends out in a small town area. That isn't all that hard anymore really. Get busy on these boards and make some friends. I've often thought that we should try to have rendezvous and get togethers where people that live in an area could get to know each other face to face. ANYWAY, find some folks that are in a better place and get friendly.

 

Don’t make this place too far from where you are because you will be probably walking or some other lesser form of transportation. A hundred miles is about as far as you will want to push it. You need to be at least 50 miles away and then as far off the beaten track as possible.

 

Step 2

You don't have the money for a separate BOL so you need some place. Once you have a place where you will be welcome you need to rent a mini-warehouse nearby and start stocking it with the things that will make you welcome and not just a refugee. Man you can get some great stuff at flea markets and garage sales that you would have no place to keep if you live in an apartment or that you will be able to haul out after things go to pieces. There won't be any fuel anywhere near the megalopolises AND the roads and highways will be blocked by the masses that choked them and then just ran out of gas where they sat and or wrecks.

 

Step 3.

Fortify your home or apartment to whatever extent is possible and stock it for a two month hide. You want your place to look totally unoccupied. NO visible lights at night and no day time movement. Pull back into one room and stay there as much as you can. If your place gets invaded by a looter kill them and leave the body in the front room to make it even less looter friendly.

 

You want to have your BOB packed and if your situation becomes totally untenable you boogie and leave it. If it is just you alone or you with one other adult I would recommend either bicycles or a smaller motorcycle that will let you run in the ditches beside the roads. If you go bicycles or on foot you might think about traveling at night and holding up during the day.

 

Remember that all you want to have to carry is the minimum that you will need to get to your friends location. Already have your stuff there in storage!

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Danm,

thank you, sir. I think you explained it better than I. A couple of quibbles:

WINNING means not dying

I think I would have said "WINNING means not dying TODAY!"

 

The other quibble is that IF you have to leave because your location becomes untenable, you may not be able to make it to your planned destination. Be prepared to survive on what is in your BOB because there are no guarantees you will find ANYTHING useful. Survival always depends on luck to some extent but you can't count on luck always favoring you. Sometimes it favors the other guy.

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You really really really want to be the quiet overlooked guy in the corner.

 

Going back to Billy the Kid for a moment, read up on a lot of the old gunfighters...or shootists if you prefer.

You might be surprised by how many of them were found dead with holes in their back.

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One of my ancestors was Jessie James and he is a good example of that fact. His Mother and Wife were both members of my Family line. Sadly he is a very apt example of someone that drew way too much attention to himself during bad times and paid for it with his life. Others rode with Quantrill's Raiders and then just melted into the background after the war.

 

Make as few enemies as possible. Never leave an enemy alive if you can make them disappear without endangering yourself. NEVER turn your back on a stranger!

 

Capt, You are right, survival...life in general is something best done one day at a time. Prepare as best you can and then just adapt, react and move on. Living in the past OR in the future makes no sense for a survivor. The past is nothing but a memory and the future is made of dreams. Only the present is reality.

 

I expect that many will come apart in the months after the first fall simply because they can't turn loose of the past or allow fear of what MIGHT be to come to paralyze their minds. The reason ALL civilizations have Gods and such is that men NEED to have some form of security in bad times. Some hope for better in the future and some belief that there is a reason for their suffering.

 

For many their Bible may be as important to their survival as their weapons or preparations. The body can indeed live on after the soul and mind has departed. Understand this now, Americans in general are poorly prepared to deal with the horrors of an apocalyptic long term disaster. Most have little understanding of REALITIES that have been common in other places even in the recent times.

 

There has never been a full blown war fought on American soil with the exception of the experiences of the Native Americans. Even the Civil War was in some ways fought almost like a game. People sat up on the hills and watched the battles and with a few exceptions the civilians were not exterminated.

 

Now days most people are not truly capable of killing their own supper. They don't deal with their own dead and people die in hospitals not at home. Most have never even buried a pet themselves much less a loved one. Hunting is a lot different than just walking up to an animal that you have cared for and raised and killing it with your bare hands. I've done both many times and also watched others struggle with this difference. A country boy has walls in his mind that a city feller doesn't.

 

You can see the difference in the way or veterans have done with the horrors of war. Those from WW1 and WW2 were mostly rural and came home and moved on. This was even true into the Korean War but Vietnam was the first one fought mostly by urban warriors. My cousin was one of those that made his first "kill" when he killed a man. In the end his body came home almost untouched but his soul was lost somewhere in the jungle. Look at how many from our current conflict are suffering with PTSD!

 

In order to SURVIVE you will need a lot of tools but all the tools and weapons in the world won't save you if you lose touch with the things that make you who you are. I know that most of you are thinking that I'm talking religion but I'm NOT. I'm talking about a strong mental philosophy and cultural bulkheads that allow you to survive and adapt. You will NOT make it if you are alone.

 

Prepare NOW. You will need a clan and a community or you won't make it. Mountain men were a VERY tiny number of people and even they only stayed gone for a little while before they cracked in some way or came home. HOME is the magic word. That means a place and a group of people that you feel an attachment too. Without a home you are homeless...think about what that word infers.

 

I know that this has wandered. This entire subject is like wandering blind through a maze. To make it we will need to be as mean as a junk yard dog at times but for myself I could too easily lose myself into the darkness if I had to stay in that mode too long. As soon as it is possible, I will try to return to some level of civilized behavior. For me part of HOME will always include my belief in a being or beings stronger and better than me that don't suffer the weakness of the flesh. In the end I will have to make peace with my actions...

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While there are some advantages to the SUBurban environment there are no survival advantages in the urban areas. Best case it that you have an entire building/condo complex that is fully into prepping with solid leadership. In that case, welcome to "Fort Apache"; you are in an island that is vulnerable to fire, attrition, and various other forms of mayhem. Resupply involves armed patrols to go get food and that means combat. Additionally, in the lead up to TEOTWAWKI, you have to deal with a strong police presence that may see your 'fort' as a threat to their efforts to control the situation. IF the feds get involved you will either be ordered into the refugee system or will be suppressed. There is nothing in the FEMA plans that would allow an armed group to exist inside their area of operations.

 

Finally, any evacuation from an urban area will be an extraction under fire. You will lose people. Can you survive in an urban area? Absolutely, but you must be very gray, and you must plan very carefully. Urban survivalist and armed citizens are target number one for control by the "assistance" groups sent in by the feds. Remember Katrina and NOLA. In an urban area, area you must plan to E&E as soon as possible; before the event if you can see it coming. Do NOT get on ANYBODIES radar; stay low key, use as much stealth as you can for everything. Cash cards for internet purchases from various places away from your home; mailboxes from folks like UPS NOT at your home (be warned, the law now says you MUST provide a physical address when you get the box - I never advocate breaking the law), cash when possible, co-ops for fresh supplies and to meet folks who have farms close by and just MIGHT appreciate some help if push comes to shove, alternate communications (yes, iPhone is really nice but so is a backup throwaway - what, you never watched 'Blue Bloods' or 'Burn Notice'?), and a whole host of other such items. Remember, your elevators most likely will be out so all those bug out supplies will be hauled down stairs if you do not plan well.

It is doable but it is the hardest way to go about surviving. Suburbs are easier, isolated BOL is easier still. My own, personal opinion is that really small town is perhaps the easiest. A rural farming community, just big enough to have a doctor and a couple of cops is about the correct size. It is isolated, has everything that is needed and, if you have done your job, is full of friends who help each other.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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Hate to disagree with the common consensus here, but there *are* advantages to living in and around cities, even from a disaster preparedness standpoint.

 

A) 911 Assistance in Small Emergencies

 

Access to emergency services and fast response times (like those available in small to moderate sized cities) is more valuable than seclusion during a large scale emergency. You know, your area *might* get hit with a tornado, hurricane, major power outage, flooding, what have you. It happens in our nation, and arguably in most, every year.

 

But you know what's more likely to affect you directly? Small scale, "personal" emergencies. They happen DAILY, everywhere. You fall down the stairs and wind up with a concussion, broken bone, back/neck injury. You get into a car accident and are hurt. You get robbed or assaulted. You have a major medical emergency - heart attack, stroke, diabetic emergency, etc. That seclusion might be real handy *if* SHTF in a way that directly affected a nearby area, but if you hurt yourself working on the farm, it might take 45 minutes for you to get to the hospital. (Which, btw, is probably nowhere near as advanced as one in a major metropolitan area. As a case in point, compare the local urgent care of Jay, Florida to the Tampa General Hospital.)

 

Or here's another one: someone tries to break into your home and happen to be successful in catching you off guard - that tricked-out HD shotgun rendered useless - they manage to shoot/stab/club/maim you. You need police and medical attention NOW. That isn't much consolation if it takes 'em an hour to get to you. Your house catches fire while you're at work. Because you live in Nowhereville, the house is largely engulfed before anyone notices to contact the fire department. When they do, it takes forever for them to get a pumper out to your little slice of Heaven.

 

See where I'm going here?

 

In a city, emergency responders are minutes away. I'm a five minute drive East from the nearest fire station, and there's another one ten minutes to the North. There was once a major medical emergency in my household, and that person was transported to one of the most advanced hospitals in the country in less than 15 minutes. It takes the municipal police department less than five minutes to have a stack of squad cars at my front door. Yeah, that's a long time if someone manages to break-in (and I'm not saying you shouldn't have something to handle that) but professional backup is on its way, and it'll be there soon.

 

Not to mention - someone else did earlier in the thread - when a major disaster does happen, emergency management services always dedicate their attention to cities before they do to rural areas. It's a matter of money - do you have any idea what it does to the economy to have a city shut down for a week? Granted, we're not always excited about the prospect of "assistance" but hey, now that we know that they'll probably disarm you, gonna rethink making it obvious that your armed? Gonna work around that? Probably not a bad idea.

 

B) Gray Man

 

Being "gray" and bugging-in inside of a city of any size (small, medium, large) is incredibly easy to do. I'm surrounded by homes for miles, here in North County Saint Louis. The odds of someone targeting my home over another in our area for whatever - robbing, looting, etc - is very low. And it's be a big mistake to hit my home (unless they caught me totally unaware: see above to "emergency services.") We avoid making our home a target by keeping modest accommodations in a middling neighborhood and driving low-key vehicles. No flaunting and flossing here!

 

Whereas, if you're living in a rural area, in a farmhouse right off the highway, where everyone driving by can see it.... it's a deer in an open field. Doesn't matter what you do, you can't easily make it blend in or disappear. Oh, and in your small town/rural area - where everyone knows everyone - if you've established yourself a reputations as being the guy who's prepared for anything, expect company. Word's going to get around. A lone goose in a pond stands out. That same goose in a gaggle, not as much. Now, if you're twenty minutes away from the road, back in the woods, hour+ away from town, where only the drones can spot you, odds are you're peachy keen (unless you need 911 services: see above.)

 

C) Networking

 

I'm willing to wager that a higher percentage of the rural/small town population is interested in preparedness (barring Salt Lake City and Nauvoo, IL --- cities with more dense populations of Mormons) but there are undoubtedly greater overall numbers of preppers in a given city. Again, Saint Louis is a good example. The greater St. Louis area has a population of nearly 3 million. If only an abysmal 1% of our area's pop is preparedness minded, that's 300,000 people. And I'm willing to wager that because of preparedness organizations like Zombie Squad, influence from pop culture and television, and other factors (like the general sense of the loss of hope for out society/government as a whole), it's probably higher than 1%. And we're all generally willing to link up with like-minded folks, aren't we? Let's just say it hasn't been hard for me to meet other folks in the area who also have a plan.

 

 

Now, all factors being considered, there are few advantages of city living over a large town or small city. A large town has most of the amenities of a city - advanced 911 services, good response times, fairly low violent crime rate, large enough that blending in isn't difficult, decent infrastructure for making "survival friends" - without the disadvantages of being a potential terrorist target.

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