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UAV’s and US Airspace

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Cap’n, I’d like to pray that most of the enlisted and lower grade officers would refuse to fire on Americans… oops, I mean, Amerikans. If I am wrong, then I have a very serious decision to make. And, without putting it in writing, I think we both understand what the dilemma. To take action is a horrific thought but to take no action is to willingly release my strangle hold on my Constitutional Rights. I have already made my choice. I pray, more than I describe, I pray that such a choice never has to be made.


Also, I remember taking my oath to support the Constitution. When I took that oath, I had read it… once. Yet here I was swearing that I will die protecting it. So I started reading it and studying it. And I realized that I didn’t know to what I took my oath! I believe that many active duty members are the same and they don’t know that they are not supposed to obey orders to fire on civilians.


Reg, you’d better be afraid of the military! You don’t know what they don’t know! And they don’t know the Constitution. I’d bet a lot of money on that. They know to follow orders and, if those orders are to fire on civilians, many will do it. Thankfully, many will not. If you don’t believe me that military members will fire on innocent civilians, read up on My Lai, and how a junior officer name William Calley ordered his men to fire on innocent civilians. The did it. They shot men, women and children for no reason other than they were ordered to do so! And 104 innocent people died because the men followed that illegal order. Also, remember “four dead in Ohio”. That was another case where military personnel firing upon innocent college students.

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Coastie, I am referring to American civilians. I understand and am afraid of what they keep pushing in the military to perform under orders.... I was

To play devil's advocate and just to stir the pot with considerations.... do you think GWOT is a system to get troops mentally prepared to fire on civilians? Just to be a smart a$$. I support our efforts to remove terrorists from the planet.


Edit: had to change computers so my post was cut short. There are many thoughts that can be considered as to how our troops are being "trained" or bluffed into thinking it is OK to fire on civilians.

Edited by Regulator5

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Reg, think about this:


President Obama has a list of people who will be assassinated at his digression. He has already used a drone to assassinate a US citizen without due process or any representation. He killed the man with a drone. Hence, my concern with the use of drones over US soil.


During the Kent State atrocity, US troops fired on and killed four students. Of course, the military said that they were fired upon first. But, as is usual when the government harms its populace, there is no concrete proof as to who fired first.


During the Ruby Ridge debacle, the government fired upon, killed and maimed US citizens including young men and a wife/mother. Again, the government blames the citizens for firing on the government first… and there is no proof in this incident, too. Waco proved to be another fiasco where US citizens died at the hands of the government. Again, the government says that the crazy people in the compound fired first and again, there’s absolutely no proof.


Does the government use excessive force on innocent Amerikans?


Ask Andrew Scott of Florida who was killed by police after they knocked on the wrong door. They went to the wrong door because the real perpetrator parked his motorcycle outside Scott’s door. So a parking space gave the cops the right to attack and murder an innocent man.


Ask Frederick McAllister who was shot in the back by police, by the way, McAllister was not the person they were chasing. He was innocent and now, he’s dead.


Ask Kathryn Johnston who was killed by police after they served a no-knock warrant on the wrong house. The police fire 39 shots at the elderly lady and obviously, they hit her enough times to prematurely end her life.


Ask Manuel Diaz, an unarmed man that was shot in the back and killed by police. Seems that shooting in the back is a favorite tactic employed by some police.


The list is long and horrific. I understand that police have a thankless job and are often the target of unwarranted ridicule. At one time I had four active police working for me and heard the crap they must endure each day. But they have a tendency of shooting and killing innocent people. They also seem to enjoy shooting at and killing family pets. I can provide numerous links where the police killed a family pet that was not attacking them. Hell, they have killed puppies because they were ‘afraid’ the puppy might hurt them.


Do you think that the government entities that are buying hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition for target practice?


As for the Global War on Terror… if there are terrorist organizations that are planning to do harm to US citizens, they need to be stopped. And personally, I don’t care how it is done. But no Amerikan should be killed without a trial and the ability to defend himself. Do you sanction the killing of an Amerikan because we have information that he might be a terrorist?


Sorry if I come off as tough on the government and the police, but I want the government to obey the Constitution. That’s not too much to ask for, is it? And their abuse of power makes me wonder why Home Security is buying over half a billion rounds of hollow-point pistol ammo. 500,000,000 is a lot of brass and far too much to account for simply target practice. Maybe they got a great price break at half a billion rounds. Also, do some research and you’ll see that other government agency have ordered hundreds of billions of rounds of hollow-point handgun ammo.


I understand the ‘stirring the pot’ aspect of the discussion but I believe that Amerikans need to put down the television remote and read the Constitution and compare that to the actions of our government. Instead, they’ll keep watching singing and dancing shows because living vicariously through other people is the life they choose. And with that comes unimpeded restrictions of our Constitutional Rights. And the sheeple do not care on bit.

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Capt Bart,


Could you clarify what you are disagreeing with? Do you think that members of the armed forces are not trusted by the current regime to carry out their orders? Are your thinking that is why they are depending on the non-military agencies?


Just trying to undersand your train of thought.



Just so. Assuming the basic training on valid orders is approximately the same as mine, I think that the regime KNOWS the military will not fire on US citizens inside the US. What happened in China or the Eastern Block countries in the 50's can't happen here because the GI's would NOT do it. Oh, you might get some special ops guys to go sour and execute folks but large scale, active duty personnel participation in violent suppression of US citizens on our own soil? Not anytime soon. Bad outcome in the election and maybe in 4 more years, but not now. I also don't think the brass would order such things based on their own desire to not cause a revolt in the ranks. Think 1917 Russia - the troops 'explained' to their officers what they felt about their orders.


In this country, you need brown shirts, not military, to enforce such things. Hitler had it right - brown shirts to kill the opposition and then the military (well the Gestapo ) to kill the brown shirts. Don't get the military involved - they aren't trustworthy when used against their parents.

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Coastie and Reg 5,

Yes the police have become somewhat trigger happy. In our environment I do understand but things like 'no knock' warrants are an invitation to disaster. That is one of my fears - innocent LEO's kick in my door because someone screwed up a warrant and now we are in a fire fight. No matter how it turns out, innocents die and at best, I'm in prison for attempted murder of a LEO.


I think a large part of the problem is the number of LEO who have never been in the military or seen combat. Back in the day, most cops were vets; now most are not. There is a seasoning that they are missing and it makes a difference in how they react under stress. Frankly, I'm not sure that a criminal justice degree from a community collage should be enough to allow you into the police academy. Military service adds age (you're at least 22 to 24, not 20) and a view of the world that the kid fresh out of high school and community collage just don't have.


No insult meant to the many good LEO's who have not served in the military. I just think that the maturity that comes with being a military veteran makes for a better cop, at least in the beginning.


Just my not so humble opinion.

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