desert rat

Everything you wanted to know about .223/5.56 ammo

13 posts in this topic

Thought I'd put this up for the one's who have questions about

the above mentioned.

Lots of questions about 5.56 over penetration and sorts. The weapon is

basically designed to wound. Thus it'll take two or three others out of a

firefight to care for or transport wounded.

All I can say now is think about softpoint and frangible ammo.

 

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror.htm#cross

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JMO here

 

.223/5.56 might work fine for battlefield Tactics in an organized Military effort. Caring for a wounded soldier puts a much larger drain on resources than a dead one. But I cant imagine that our enemys in the MidEast region get decent field medics if anything.

 

Most of us here on this forum wont be in an actual 'battlefield' or Urban Combat situation. If we find ourselves in a situation justifying pointing a gun at someone. THe need to wound/disable the enemy shouldnt be the goal behind your ammunition. If I have to defend myself Im trying to do maximum damage with every shot.

 

THat said.... I believe, IMO ,it would be wiser to spend that $$$ on a .308 rather than a .223

Using a .308 would negate the amount of 'cover' an object would provide the enemy.

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The weapon is basically designed to wound. Thus it'll take two or three others out of a

firefight to care for or transport wounded.

 

Yup this was one of the things we were taught in medic school during our trauma module... Lots of penetration, not a lot of stopping power.

I'm getting an AR-15 in 5.56 soon but after that im going to build one in .308

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I know I'm repetitious - my apologies to the old timers who are tired of hearing from me ..... pause to allow delete button ......

 

Every survival firearm must be selected to ensure the survival of the user. That seems obvious but combat is NOT a major part of a survival scenario. OK, IF you are getting shot at, THAT is MAJOR! That given, any survival arm that spends more than a very small part of its time in combat belongs to someone who isn't going to make it! Most hunting firearms will do the job for ad hoc combat ops. No, a bolt action 7mm Rem Mag is not my combat arm of choice but it is a decent survival arm for large parts of the country and it will do the job for almost any one on one or one on few combat scenarios. If you're looking at hordes of MZB, anything less than a major caliber, full auto, belt fed weapon and you lose. Of course, a .50BMG M2 is a really lousy deer rifle. Your weapon must do most survival tasks acceptably well. That means hunting, varmint eradication, E&E, crop/stock protection and, if forced, combat.

 

The 5.56/.223 is designed to be used as a full auto weapon in a combat role by at least an infantry squad. That was the Army's justification for buying it - the M-14 was too stout for most troops when used full auto. That means you also have heavy weapons support (machine guns, mortars, artillery, air support) and unlimited resupply. Those conditions will almost certainly NOT exist after TSHTF. I like the 5.56 to shoot; it is a light recoil, very accurate weapon. Under 300 meters it is almost laser accurate. Given that, it is not a true survival arm because it does not do the remainder of the jobs well. Actually, I'd prefer a pistol caliber carbine (like the Kel Tec Sub in .40) to a 5.56 for survival use. If you like the AR well enough to play you bet your life with one, that is your call. I don't and I won't unless I have, literally, no other choice.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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the 223 is not my 1st choice for HD. But remember this when thinking about the 556/223 - civilians can use hollow points and soft points. A standard milspec M193 round might not be a garranteed 1 shot man stopper, but Ill bet my life on one of my handloads with a 69gr matchking hollow point under 200 yards. My loads for the 69gr average around 2900ft/sec and I can safely raise that to around 3050ft/sec. That pretty quick. And the transfer of energy with that bullet is brutal. Any hit in the silhouette area will probably stop a man from fighting.

 

I really like the 556 and I love shooting my AR.

 

Great link desert rat!

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As the other guys have said, if you are going to be doing a lot of shooting, then hand loading can really save you some money. Seems that center-fire rifle ammo availability is getting better and you can pick it up on the shelves for the most part. If another crisis hits, who knows what people will do again when they panic, so its never a bad idea to have plenty of ammo to shoot. You will also notice a pattern of when most people shoot, its during the warmer months or during hunting season. The other guys on here have given you some great ideas about what equipment you should look into. Pick a gun or two that you will shoot the most and buy the dies for them. After you have seen how much youre shooting, then you can get an idea for the other guns that you shoot less. Im a brass monkey at the range, always grabbing what I shoot and anything the other guys will give me.

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I'm no brass monkey at the range, I GLADLY appropriate everything in MY calibers that isn't being zealously "guarded", by fellow reloaders like myself.

If it's on the ground/floor, it probably IS "mine".......

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It is saving more as I see the prices are going higher on everything but NATO calibers and one day if we have inflations  prices will go higher.

 

I reload for control although factory can produce good results I have my loads and criteria  I do not pick different primers or powder.

Brass I usually load separate by headstamp and find little difference downrange. basically all I am interested in is 7.62X51 / .308 winchester.

Reloading straight wall pistol is simple one load for each special or magnum auto for each caliber one load for each. same primer ( CCI )

same powder ( different load data ) and in each caliber the same bullet.  Usually on the heavier end  9MM I like 124 grn 38 /357 158 grn

If for some reason I want more power best to step up in caliber than attempt to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I use upper end loadings and never load "TARGET" or low velocity ammo.

 

I stick with blue dot, unique, and varget and or BLC2 if push came to shove I could load all with unique pistol rifle & shotgun,  Is this perfect NO but I can make it work.  America wastes more and considers conservation less than any other place on the planet, and though we live in the land of plenty I think it is good to experiment with doing more with less.

 

I posted on the "CAT SNEEZE" basically it is a round ball load using fast pistol powder in a rifle for taking small game you can even use pistol primers as the CUP pressures are low enough.  I have even played with sabot loads using a 22/55grn in a .308 dia sabot.

People with limited funds or other uses can buy a relic and and investigate all the probabilities will find that in one rifle they can load for small game large short and long range there are also chamber adapters so you can load a 32 ACP so you can eliminate fancy loads and load 32 ACP and the round like .308 30-06 7.62X ---54 or  51 or 39 etc etc  this works in the 30 cal range and since it is basicall a single shot you can load down the 32 ACP so it is not so powerful as to blow up your game.

 

Using the information above the trajectory from a rifle changes as to the projectile weight and speed so experience will guide your aiming point for lead ball, reduced loads sabot or chamber adapter shooting  experiment and understand if your not a concise or experimental type admit it to yourself and just go with a chamber adapter adapters for 30 carbine etc can slo be had and if you have a 30 carbine reduced load may be better for you than 32ACP.

 

as to the topic of .223 or 5.56 AHHHhhhh not much for me 5.56 per hundred is 2.69 pounds about and 22LR is 3/4 of a pound a hundred or I think it is and averages about 27 of 5.56 to 100 22LR and since there is never an intension of using any unless criminals reign or WROL --308

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no, the 223 wasnt' designed to wound, so stop spreading the lies. Engine blocks, curbs, many things stop 308 bullets and trying to shoot people by shooting at something behind which they are hiding is a great way to run out of ammo, You only get to carry 1/2 as much 308 ammo as 223. There's this thing called "physical limits".

 

More importantly, the 308 lacks a .22lr conversion unit, so you have to have a .suppressed .22lr handgun for foraging small game, killing dogs and cats, eliminating sentries, sentry dogs or, taking cattle at night, etc. It only takes ONE looter type to kill you, while it might take quite a bit of rapidfire to kill him first.

 

it's quite likely that your rifle will need to be concealable if shtf, (in your pack). It's virtually certain that it will need to be suppressed. Noise scares off game and will call in  your killers. When you choose the 308, you are choosing to give up the concealment, the .22lr unit, and the suppressor.   The 308 aint worth a hoot with less than an 18" barrel and it aint suppressed worth a hoot in less than a 10" "can".  28" is not a handy rifle to be using.

 

You are many times more likely to get killed cause you had a noisy rifle and/or were dumb enough to be out and about in daylight, if shtf.

 

If it's not shtf, a rental satillite phone is many, many times more likely to save you than any longarm could ever be. A longarm is no help if you're hurt or sick, cut off by flood, fire, avalanche.  Being seen with a rifle, especially a fighting autloloader, is likely to get you shot. A shortage of ammo might well mean that you're not worth a bullet if you're not seen to have a gun.

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good 223 loads have twice the power that the "gun that won the west" had. the 44-40 lever action was 200 grs lfp at 1200 fps, 640 ft lbs, with at least a third of that wasted on the far of the man or deer.  60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints penetrate adequately, but don't waste any power on the far side of the man. So the reality is that even the M4 hits twice as hard as the 44-40, on top of offering twice as fast repeat hits, 3x the effective range, silencer, AP on soft armor, .22lr conversion unit, concealment in your pack, one handed use and no more cost than the lever action. The cowboy action 44-40 loads are so wussy that they might as well be .22lr. Such has to be the case to let the silly users get some repeat hit speed.

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