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JohnDoe1999

Affordable Calibers & Reloading

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I've been shooting every weekend lately, and just can't afford to shoot .45 or even .357! By now I could be halfway to buying a Ruger P95 http://www.ruger.com/products/p95/models.html . My personal favorite is .357, but I can't afford an american made revolver. I've been wanting to get a Glock, but I'd prefer to buy American all round, and the P95 is American made, even if it is an arguably anti-freedom manufacturer. The 9mm is just more affordable in bulk; I'd rather have a 9mm than have an empty .45... Another question: does anybody here reload 7.62x54mm? I've done no-fire drills with these rounds (yes live, safe direction and backstop) and found that the rim doesn't function after being cycled a couple of times; it stays in the bolt. How would these handle being reloaded? I've been procrastinating about about getting into reloading, but am finally getting around to it.

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If money is a concern then I think a 9mm is probably your best bet too.

 

I think Ruger used to be "Anti-Freedom" back when Bill(?) Ruger owned it. He had been quoted as saying that "No one needs more than 10 rounds." However, I am not certain that the new owners/shareholders share the same sentiments. Because of this, I'm sure that some people still wouldn't purchase a Ruger products.

 

With that said, I understand your wanting to purchase an American made weapon, but I also wouldn't just limit your scope by that alone. JMHO. I would go with what is reliable, fits your hand, ease of finding replacements parts (springs, mags, barrels, etc.). Not that Ruger doesn't offer all of this I'm sure, but if price is a factor in your decision for ammo then I would also translate that into the maintenance of any firearms as well.

 

As far as your reloading question, I will have to let someone that knows something about it to answer your question there.

 

Good luck.

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John, pull the trigger on the P95. My favorite semi auto pistol to shoot. It is big and blocky and hard to conceal, but at least the one I have is rediculously accurate. Everyone else I have spoken to who has one has expressed the same sentiment. I know ther eare some hard feelings towards Ruger, but come on guys, let it go. Bill Ruger is dead. If you want, buy the P95 and get one of the extended mags to tweak his ghost.

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(Sorry, John, I accidentally deleted the second half of my e-mail.)

 

I shoot 7.62x54R a lot, and I just stick with the military surplus. $75 for a box of 440 rounds lasts me quite some time. THis is corrosive ammo, so I will repeat what everyone else says and remind you to clean afterwards. Not an issue for me, since I always clean after shooting. I am not a reloader, but I know that some folks do reload this round so I expect you will get a response, probably something about necking down another cartridge.

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John,

If you REALLY like the .357 remember it will also shoot the .38. I mostly shoot .38 through mine, saving the heavy stuff for the tall and uncut. That is a cheaper way to go (.38 FMJ is quite reasonable and easy to reload.)

As to the P95, I've fired them and really like them. The ONLY reason that I don't own one (or 2) is that the safety works in the opposite direction from my Colt Commander. Up on the slide mounted safety on the Ruger is hot, DOWN on the frame mounted safety on the Colt is hot. I'm not saying one is better than the other (although John Browning (a moment of reverence in the presence of greatness, please) designed the Colt with down for hot) only that I go to great lengths to have all my immediate action firearms function the same way. (read the story of Tom Horn's failed escape attempt to see why.)

As to the politics of things, I don't buy Chinese for two reasons. First it is often junk and second it is still a communist country out to destroy America. I have nothing against "former" communist - the CZ folks make good weapons as do other European manufacturers. I am amused that some of them build guns for us but they can't have them at home.

I am envious that you are able to shoot every weekend. That is cool. As to the 7.62X54, or any other Communist round for that matter, be very careful about planning to reload. If the brass is available from the US maybe but often they use different style primers (I think) and as you note, different quality/composition brass that may not be able to handle the reload process. I'd check with someone who knows more than me about that but my first reaction is don't plan on it for eastern block ammo - and I extend that to ANY eastern block round of any caliber.

As to the .357, new they can be had for $550 or so from Ruger. Used, I've see $300, occasionally less. Taurus has a decent product although not a US company. New Colt or S&W can run over a $1000 easily, even some used go for $2K or more. I like the products but not that much. Keep an eye open at gun shows and things like Shotgun News and you may find a deal. The GP100 from Ruger seems a good product and it can carry 6 (because of the transfer bar) unlike the "only 5" in the Colt and S&W due to safety.

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I know there are some hard feelings towards Ruger, but come on guys, let it go. Bill Ruger is dead. If you want, buy the P95 and get one of the extended mags to tweak his ghost.

 

I couldn't agree more. No hard feelings from me, but some people I know don't think the same way we do.:rolleyes:

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Taurus does have a major production facility in Miami area now. They also own Rossi. Taurus (I think) is "American" owned, but incorporated through Brazil during the Cold War to get around sales restrictions by nato. I've had my Taurus PT101 for 20 years and it has always gotten the job done.

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The eastern bloc brass have "snake eyed" primer pockets. If you look down into an empty casing, you will notice a small bar across the primer pocket, thus forming 2 very small holes instead of 1 central hole for used primer removal. Also, alot (if not all) surplus bloc ammo has a steel case. I know in the early '90's you could get specialized reloaders to reload the "snake eyed" casings, but they were several thousand dollars if memory serves me correct. A friend, Jim Reinholt, was a retired US marshal with a firearms shop and shooting range; he also was partners in an ammo company and avid reloader. Mr. Smashy probably can give many more details on it than I can.

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reloading 357 is easy as pie go to these dies will also reload 38 spl

 

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/LEE-LOADER-357-MAG.html

comes with a load data sheet

 

for the bullet mold use wheel weight lead buy used about 11 pounds will make about 500

 

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Bullet-Mold-Double-Cavity/

 

go with the .207 truncated 158 grain tumble lube bullet double cavity

 

use lee tumble lube works great http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Bullet-Lube/

 

and for powder bulls eye powder my old reloading book says 4.9 to 6.9 grains check for yourself though

a pound of powder is 7,000 grains this means you can load 1,000 to 1,200 plinkers or magnum

 

and CCI primers

 

and a dual head plastic / rubber mallet

 

you can always call lee and ask questions

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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I have a P95, P90, and P89. They are excellent semi's. Nice looking, easy to clean, rock solid. Reloading 9mm and 38 SPL's is almost the same price. My personal preference in a revolver is the Taurus Model 85. Not that expensive and great for women too. I prefer the longer wood grip over the factory rubber one though. I have a 7.62X54 but haven't shot or reloaded yet. If it doesn't eject I can only assume there's something wrong with the action.

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JP - That good to know on the Lee scale. The more I look at the anniversary scale the more it appeals to me. Saving 100 is pretty important these days. 4350 powder is correct, not 4850. I will be reloading for my 25-06, .270 then .30-06. I may hold off on the powders and stock up on bullets first. It may be a few more months before I get a kit. Isnt it better to buy the powders just in time? Appreciate all your advice thus far.

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reloading 357 is easy as pie go to these dies will also reload 38 spl

 

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/LEE-LOADER-357-MAG.html

comes with a load data sheet

 

for the bullet mold use wheel weight lead buy used about 11 pounds will make about 500

 

http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Bullet-Mold-Double-Cavity/

 

go with the .207 truncated 158 grain tumble lube bullet double cavity

 

use lee tumble lube works great http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Bullet-Lube/

 

and for powder bulls eye powder my old reloading book says 4.9 to 6.9 grains check for yourself though

a pound of powder is 7,000 grains this means you can load 1,000 to 1,200 plinkers or magnum

 

and CCI primers

 

and a dual head plastic / rubber mallet

 

you can always call lee and ask questions

 

Snake's neighbors wonder why their wheels need balancing all of the time. LOL

 

You can usually go around tire shops after they are closed and find all kinds of wheel weights laying around close to the street. Just pick them up. Also in intersections there are always a few there. Just keep your eyes open and you can find a mess of them in no time.

 

You can also buy scrap lead from the Govt. surplus sales and other sources. Try to stay away from battery leads. They may still contain SO4 acid dried on the lead. This is not good when you melt it. Of course use a mask when you are melting lead and do not breathe the fumes. Not a good life choice.

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here is my favorite

 

linotype got quite a bit

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1018[/ATTACH]

 

Linotype lead is great but print shops do not use it any more. Most all typesetting is now done on a computer.

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John if you are not dead set against the Glock, I shoot 9mms through my .40 S&W’s to save a lot for practice. All you need is the proper drop-in barrel from Lone wolf or another maker and the proper magazine for the caliber you will shoot. This also works for shooting 10mm or .40 S&W through .45 ACP Glocks. Both the 9mm and .40 S&W offer savings over the host pistol, not so much the 10mm’s but with reloads there is savings all around with any of the drop in calibers.

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Please excuse a new poster for butting in. In reference to reloading 7.62 x 54, my Hornady reloading manual (old) volume # 1 on page 395 gives powder loads, available bullet choices, etc. Winchester ammo company sells the round by the box (#MC76254R 180 grn FMJ) and Midway USA sells the dies (#29001) so that once you shoot up the factory rounds, if you so choose, you can tailor the 30 cal. to your own use. Just saying Loser

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Please excuse a new poster for butting in. In reference to reloading 7.62 x 54, my Hornady reloading manual (old) volume # 1 on page 395 gives powder loads, available bullet choices, etc. Winchester ammo company sells the round by the box (#MC76254R 180 grn FMJ) and Midway USA sells the dies (#29001) so that once you shoot up the factory rounds, if you so choose, you can tailor the 30 cal. to your own use. Just saying Loser

Please don't apologize for joining in - we are all new posters somewhere! Thanks for the references. I tend to reload my lever guns and revolvers - I don't particularly care to reload my semi-autos. I can, I just don't like using non-jacketed slugs in semi-auto weapons. Except in Glocks where using straight lead voids the warranty, potentially causes fouling problems, and may cause malfunctions (that is what Glock says) there is no reason not to do so, I just don't. I could get jacketed slugs of course, I just don't. Personal choice on my part; no compelling safety or shooting reasons.

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I've had several Ruger P95's and a P93 over the years, all good solid guns. Not the greatest feeling as some have mentioned, but plenty accurate, reliable, and durable.

 

Something you might consider for cheap shooting practice is getting a centerfire auto pistol that also takes a 22LR conversion. I burned 4 clips through the 22 conversion on my Sig 226 this afternoon practicing. I can swap back to 9mm any time I want easily. The initial cost of the gun and kit might be more but it will pay for itself quickly at least assuming 22LR ammo becomes available and affordable again at some point.

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In Canada, 22lr would be the cheapest.

9mm/9X19 & 38 spl are cheap as well. Reloading 9mm isen't that cheap compared to factory, the savings could be a couple of dollars if that, for a box of 50rds. 38spl are cheaper to reload, the savings are about 20 to 23 dollars for a 50 rd box of lead semi wad cutters. Savings is about 10 dollars for copper plated. If your including your time in to the factor for reloading, then your not saving much if any. It called what's your time worth? My time is worth a bunch to me, but i enjoy reloading all my ammo for all calibres, so i don't factor in my time doing it. Reloading is just another hobby that i enjoy doing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If your not " Physically Fit ", then your just Food for the Zombies.LOL.

In GOD I Trust, Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them!

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Lyman reloading manual list loads for cast bullets in rifles

 

I would invest in getting one of their manuals and the LEE molds for your rifle the Alox lube is great it resists heat

 

and reduces leading I use Xlox you can buy it from ebay nice guy inexpensive too.

 

Lynotype can be found on ebay all it is a special amalgam using tin antimony and lead if you cast rifle bullets with it

 

and use Xlox you do not need to use gas checks if you want you can paper patch with rice cigaret rolling paper

 

It works very well at high speed many shooters shoot minute of angle groups with cast bullets and it is not as hard on

 

brass use the highest weight bullet common for your caliber in 308 that would be 160 to 180 grains

 

My manual shows velocities of 1200 feet per second to 2500 using pistol and shotgun powders like PB Unique red dot green dot

 

IMR 4227 and rifle powders like 3031 and 4198 and #2 alloy {wheel weights}

 

7.62X54 Russian shows loads from 1400 FPS to 2200 FPS neither calibers loose much by using cast bullets a 308 cast with a

 

rice paper patch works fine using Unique and 2400 powders.

 

I would imagine using 8mm mauser or 30-06 cast data may work as the case capacity is close and bullet weights are similar.

 

Lyman has individual caliber load books if you are penny conscience or only have one or two calibers of rifles.

 

Jacketed bullets are needed for semi auto gas operated weapons as lead particles and lube clogs the gas system

 

under sustained fire.

 

Everyone should own a medium bore bolt action military rifle with iron sights they were and are the most durable

 

and all around useful hunting and defense tool from 6.5mm to 303 brit

 

many of the lever action calibers shine when shooting cast bullets.

 

if you have access to pure lead 1 pound of lynotype to 10 pounds lead gives you #2 alloy with a temp of between

 

675 to almost 800 degrees depending on alloy and mold type aluminum or cast Iron.

 

Bottom pour casting pots are best as lead is so heavy that any impurities float to the top fluxing is done by having the

 

lead hot enough that no part of the alloy is congealed on top all that is floating is ash dirt and in cases of wheel weights

 

the little metal clips drop in a pencil eraser size piece of wax I use bees wax or hard stick bullet lube and light with a stick

 

match as it burns use your ladle the gather the impurities and scoop them out now the surface should look like a mirror

 

this is when you use a ladle to cast if your impurities have a silver color that is tin and antimony the part of the alloy

 

that makes lead hard you need to have your alloy hotter so it will remain as a alloy or else it will separate.

 

you can cast your own buck shot slugs and punkin' balls I figure using NEW hulls It costs me 50 cents each for magnum round

 

buck or slugs making my own super shot {hard cast #2 alloy buck and slugs} LEE makes a great slug mold and round ball

 

molds for buck shot .311 is close to $1 buck .320 is 00 .360 is 000 .690 is what I cast for 12 ga. round ball I use a 3/4 in wide

 

strip of paper legal size length and wrap it around the ball or slug and slip it in the hull this keeps it centered you don't have to

 

I don't like a sloppy fit.

 

molds last many years and can cast many 10's of thousands of rounds with the price of powder if you can find it get a 4 or 8

 

pound keg as hazmat fees makes this option economical powder and primers do not go bad keep them in a cool place

 

best to use a ammo can for primers keeps them dry and air/ humidity tight keep the powder in its original container.

 

for loading cast bullets in rifle I would have 4198 and or Unique for pistol or shotgun blue green or red dot and unique

 

are there other powders YES and the problem there are no cast rifle bullet loads listed or tested for them shows how concerned

 

powder manufactures are about the future of shooting and hunting or you having ammo.

 

Lyman is one of the only sources for cast lead loads in rifle I refuse to buy new manuals from bullet makers their only concern

 

is selling their own product other manuals carry loadings for similar bullet weights and now they are more layer manuals

 

than previous manuals I hear all the hype over NEW powders big damn deal if it does not have data for ALL it's applications

 

it is worthless if a powder cannot load at least 2 different arms it is a waste of space and money I want to use HS6 and 7 BUT

 

they have not bothered to bench test loads for cast bullets in rifle now that we are all in this shortage of components and

 

jacketed bullets and who knows what horror could happen next that may effect laws or ability to buy components

 

why support powder and other companies products that ignore these facts.

 

I would like to see a grass roots effort to ask powder companies to experiment and find loads for these new powders

 

and open up new avenues of target shooting cast bullets for something other than cowboy shooting which I like but lets

 

face it not everyone want to spend hundreds of dollars to play dress up leather and gear are very expensive as usual

 

the well heeled have ruined another fun sport most all the guns have doubled in price just as everything else they touch

 

{personal rant} If they put their money behind shooting instead of placating the left we would not have to deal with

 

all this steel shot hevi shot and this gave the anti's a wedge to force the use of extremely expensive alternatives to lead

 

lead is not the poison it has been labeled it is not for morons or children but it is a natural element mining of copper gold silver

 

tin etc etc etc. also extract lead it is a byproduct copper pipe has lead a very small amount but it does now they are all

 

over silver fillings they have mercury and it causes everything from PMS to PTSD BUT ALUMINUM that is OK even though it has

 

been linked to Alzheimers it is in deodorant in all your drinks and makeup but I drink from Plastic pcb's etc etc

 

the well to do fall into the pit every time and make money off fools and cost us more in the long run.

 

Free range and Natural OMG 100 years of DDT and pesticide just evaporated poof disappeared raising food surrounded by

 

other farms who use pesticide the runoff still is fed through the roots birds eat over there and crap here and in your water.

 

Lead does not leach if it did every water table in all the states that had civil war battles would be a toxic waste dump.

 

if people in this country ever used their head for more than a hat rack we may actually accomplish something useful, like

 

find a cure for politicians and herpes as both are known for not going away and being an embarrassment and pain.

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