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awake

Going Primative.

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I have a personal interest in Primitive weapons. I know others do as well. In my head i have imagined creating some of theses weapons. Tomahawks, bows, arrows, blowguns, darts, spears, and Atlatls are some items that i wish to make with my own hands. If any of you have any data or details to share on making these items i thank you in advance.

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Awake, I the current issue of Backwoodsman Magazine had an article on atlatls. I still promote the "Traditional Bowyer's Bible" and the "Bent Stick" (I think was title) for self bows. The book list I sent you has several others in it for the other goods as well.

One way that the Natives made a stone "tomahawk"/war club, was to split a sapling and insert the desired rock into the split then tie sinew around the plit and let the sapling grow back and heal itself with the rock embedded. This takes awhile, usually a year or 2 minimum, but it will definitely give you a very solid stone hawk.

There is also a book by David Montgomery (I hope I have right author) that is "Native American Crafts and Skills". He also has 1 on Mountainman Skills. I'm not sure if you want a stone lance head or steel? Crazy Crow offers steel lance heads if I remember correctly.

One thing I do is soak rawhide lace and tie it around my hawk head and let it dry to keep things tight. It works well until the rawhide gets resoaked, but I have heard of guys shellacing the lace after it dries to help ward off water. It can be done on spear/lance heads as well.

PM me if you have any questions on the books I mentioned, I'll go grab them out of my library to get ISBN numbers for you.

Edited by Regulator5

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Awake, I the current issue of Backwoodsman Magazine had an article on atlatls. I still promote the "Traditional Bowyer's Bible" and the "Bent Stick" (I think was title) for self bows. The book list I sent you has several others in it for the other goods as well.

One way that the Natives made a stone "tomahawk"/war club, was to split a sapling and insert the desired rock into the split then tie sinew around the plit and let the sapling grow back and heal itself with the rock embedded. This takes awhile, usually a year or 2 minimum, but it will definitely give you a very solid stone hawk.

There is also a book by David Montgomery (I hope I have right author) that is "Native American Crafts and Skills". He also has 1 on Mountainman Skills. I'm not sure if you want a stone lance head or steel? Crazy Crow offers steel lance heads if I remember correctly.

One thing I do is soak rawhide lace and tie it around my hawk head and let it dry to keep things tight. It works well until the rawhide gets resoaked, but I have heard of guys shellacing the lace after it dries to help ward off water. It can be done on spear/lance heads as well.

PM me if you have any questions on the books I mentioned, I'll go grab them out of my library to get ISBN numbers for you.

 

I would coat it with pine resin and also on the stone like glue because it is a very sticky substance and water resistant and it does not take much.

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JCMS, I agree on pine resin, especially when it is all we have. The only issue with pine resin comes from it being so susceptible to heat and then getting "runny". I haven't tried the schellac personally, but figured it was water resistant and until we have to go completely "old school, we can use gorilla glue...lol.

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Thanks Reg5 and JCMS. I figured you two would chime in. I plan to make some of the items i mentioned. Thought i would see if how many folks have gone this way before. Looks like i am in good company.

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Guest kevin

why not just drill a hole above and below the ax insert bolts with washers and nuts and tighten the crap out of them....if you aren't sticking to "old school".....but i totally understand the wanting to know the how to of primitive skills. if i can find the right rocks i'll have a go with the rawhide. most of what we have at the dirt pit/shooting range are "soft" iron ore....they crumble easily. i guess when it cools of i'll have to walk the creek beds and see what i can find.

 

 

hey reg,is second growth hickory my best choice for the handle of the ax?

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Kevin, the bolts would work but they would want to hang up in wood and if by chance an inaccurate strike was done, hitting the bolt could cause additional stress on the handle. Also, if being used as a defensive "tool" the bolts would have a tendancy to really snag on loose clothing or in soft parts where a sharp head would just slice thru. Just my opinion, but it is a viable option for keeping the head in place.

 

As for a handle, any hardwood (oak, hickory, maple, etc) would work. Find a sapling that fits your hand well and then measure up to your desired length to make the split to. Second growth may prove a bit stronger but I've never been that particular. In my area of IN, we had more oak than anything, so it was what we used the most of for all our projects, i.e., walking/hiking staffs, spear handles, etc. For me, 1 1/4- 1 1/2 inch diameter is the best fit. Wrapping the end of the handle near the head with wet, stretched rawhide and even doing a "twist wrap" going down the length will add some strength and help keep the handle from splitting from constant use or the occassional poor hit. It also helps the handle if the need arises to block with it during CQB. Remember that rawhide shields DID stop/deflect muzzleloader balls and arrows from reaching their intended target.... the person holding it.

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Guest kevin

we have a good supply of hickory here. and when green it carves really nice, but when dried it stiffens up to be hard, very hard. plus it is light weight when its dried. a great wood to work with. it also burns hotter than heck

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I agree Kev, hickory is hard to beat and probably can't be beat by any native wood in North America. My purchased hawks have hickory handles. I know where a couple small groves of hickorys are, but they are mature and I use them as favorite squirrel spots and also gather a few nuts to enjoy myself.

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Guest kevin

never developed a taste for hickory nuts, to bitter for me. but here pecans are abundant and i can eat my weight in those....both are great wood for smoking meats but if you go to heavy with the hickory you'll have h3ll keeping the temp. below 300.....that stuff burns HOT...almost as hot as bois'd arc (horse/hedge apple tree)... you wanna talk "hard when dried" that tree has to be tops. plus i here the "apples" keep away flies.

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Kevin, I posted a link in the woods clothing thread (I think) about acorn bread. You can use the same leeching process to make hickory nuts more palatable for you. If you have an abundance of this resource, it would be great to harvest them. They will be a high protien and calorie source if TSHTF.

 

This will also give you some tannic acid for your tanning hobbies.

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Guest kevin

thanks reg....and yes we have tons of hickory nut, and acorns ....i was planning on using them in a shtf situation but i haven't looked into the acorn bread....but i will now.

 

one tree i have been doing a good bit of thinking about as far as food goes is mimosa....we have more than ur share and the blooms and "beans" are edible....taste crappy but hey in a shtf, digestible=delicious.

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Another good thing about the acorns and hickory nuts.... they can be used for livestock food (cattle prefer them hulled) and with the high protien count, they add meat faster. Mixing the nutmeats with amaranth and other grasses can be a good food source for livestock and gathering the wild nuts saves money on feed.

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Guest kevin

yep , i had planned on acorns as hog food(a good stand of white oaks near here)...wonder if the chickens would eat if blanched?.....on the amaranth, don't feed it to rabbits. i hear it's deadly for them.

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I'll have to check the amaranth and rabbits out. Saving coin by foraging even livestock food can be extremely helpful.

 

As for chickens, I am not sure. My Grandpas chickens probably would... I think they were related to a goat....lol... even ate Japanese beetles.

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Guest kevin

lol....sounds like my chickens....i just feed them enough to keep them around.....make em hustle for a living and they'll keep the bugs, and even snakes at bay.

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why not just drill a hole above and below the ax insert bolts with washers and nuts and tighten the crap out of them....if you aren't sticking to "old school".....but i totally understand the wanting to know the how to of primitive skills. if i can find the right rocks i'll have a go with the rawhide. most of what we have at the dirt pit/shooting range are "soft" iron ore....they crumble easily. i guess when it cools of i'll have to walk the creek beds and see what i can find.

 

 

hey reg,is second growth hickory my best choice for the handle of the ax?

 

Sorry about the late reply. My intent to go primitive was to use the resources that were available in nature. Kind of a skill set if i were in a long teotwawki situation.

Kevin. As to your Iron ore rock problem, dont overlook using animal bone in place of stone. Some of the best spear heads i have seen were bone.

I am currently working on a blow gun and dart. Let you know how things go.

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never developed a taste for hickory nuts, to bitter for me. but here pecans are abundant and i can eat my weight in those....both are great wood for smoking meats but if you go to heavy with the hickory you'll have h3ll keeping the temp. below 300.....that stuff burns HOT...almost as hot as bois'd arc (horse/hedge apple tree)... you wanna talk "hard when dried" that tree has to be tops. plus i here the "apples" keep away flies.

 

Green hickory nuts in a burlap sack and beat them with a sledge hammer and put a rock in the sack and a rope on it and drop it in a good fishing hole and get ready with a dip net not legal but it works ok

 

I have gone primitive woven sandals a flap loin cloth and a blanket with a hair rope and a spear

the guys I was with thought the sandals were odd they went barefoot as I had not for years I though it was

prudent. I did carry a model 10 S&W in my blanket roll I am not crazy. there are some mean azz cats in that jungle.

 

and burning cow sh*t keeps away insects also but I don't want to smell it.

or cook over it. LOL

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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LOL@JCMS... the large punks for lighting fireworks also work for warding off insects. I was informed it was camel dung but after being in the litterbox, if camel dung kept them at bay, the rags wouldn't have an insect in the sub continent...lmao.

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Sorry about the late reply. My intent to go primitive was to use the resources that were available in nature. Kind of a skill set if i were in a long teotwawki situation.

Kevin. As to your Iron ore rock problem, dont overlook using animal bone in place of stone. Some of the best spear heads i have seen were bone.

I am currently working on a blow gun and dart. Let you know how things go.

 

Awake, agree on the bone. Shoulder blades from large game/livestock can be used to make a warhead club or a gardening hoe.

 

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread. I guess I spent too much time overseas... hi-jacking seems to be second nature to me.....lmao.

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I really dont think that threads are hi jacked. In the course of normal conversation there are ebbs and flows. The general subject may be altered and that is how we stubble on to great transfer of information. So there is really no need to apologize. I suspect that its our generational up bringing that we are polite with one another. So with this said, please fill free to express your selves. now back to our previous topic.

 

Reg5. i have seen some jaw bones used in the past and wonder about their strength as a clubbing device?

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Worked for Samson...till he got that buzz cut.

 

LOL@vonBayern, nothing but the truth.

 

Awake, they are really strong and the natural bend to the jaw lends to a good club with added strength; they are wider at the bend. The horse or mule ones work best alone, but smaller ones can be lashed to a handle for the desired length.

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Another good thing about the acorns and hickory nuts.... they can be used for livestock food (cattle prefer them hulled) and with the high protien count, they add meat faster. Mixing the nutmeats with amaranth and other grasses can be a good food source for livestock and gathering the wild nuts saves money on feed.

 

You can feed cattle prickly pear cactus just got to burn off the stickers when they cut the senderos {paths}

in country full of cactus they keep the fence lines clear and trails to wells out buildings etc and they pile these

up and you get a fire going and using a pitch fork and a ax you burn the stickers off and toss them in another pile.

 

Mexicans eat them chopped up in tacos or other dishes it's a cross between okra and cucumber with no seeds

hell of a lot of stickers they make a special peeler for them or you take a knife and carefully skin it to get the sticker patches off also during late summer to fall are red or purple and taste great ripe.

you have seen the commercials for nopalaya well that is prickly pear fruit it has a lime kinda strawberry

kinda I can't really describe it citric flavor we have made it into jelly you can do anything with it that you can most fruit. except grab it them there stickers is bad news and so small you cannot hardly see them.

 

ans some of the pear are taller than a man and ears as big as your head but you don't see those to often

as it takes a long time to grow that big and rattle snakes love the shade they provide and the birds that

drop in so do not think they are uninhabited lots of snake and rat holes under them there Blue indigo's

a snake brought in to kill the rattle snake I caught one by accident looking for a rattle snake years ago under a pear bush he turned out

to be 8 foot long beautiful snake looks like a purple / indigo blue cobra, but nonvenomous now don't take that

and consider he won't bite you he just ain't got fangs they are protected so do not harm them

why they are protected it is a non indigenous species like the nutria rat but it does have a function killing the

native species under those lines of thought the Boa and anaconda should be protected because people

are native just as are all the animals of the everglades.

whoever is responsible for deciding what is or is not a celebrity in the critter world must be a total dumb sh*t

thing that they call endangered are merely hard to find by the so called educated professional.

because more people have seen a UFO than a baby road runner I would venture to say more people have held a moon rock them, babies are hard to find.

 

You need to be cautious a few cacti are poisonous some are endangered and some have drug like properties

like peyote cactus and leave barrel cactus alone they are bad news and one of the species is poison the other not much better the fruit is suppose to be edible but by what I understand they taste very bad. not to mention the spines are very bad news turn septic quick as with many others as far as species hell I am sure they could find a new one a day.

 

if a cactus exudes a white milky substance when cut it is probably bad I would stick {not being funny here}

with the prickly pear they are easy to recognize and plentiful you can put them in a pit and smash them

put a plastic cover over it and a cup in the center and a rock to direct the flow of water to the cup to make a solar still the cactus has the water in the dry areas there ain't none there are dry river beds that a back hoe

could not find water and a lot of miles between a wet spots.

 

all I know is at night you stand and fight because running is not an option some areas are like field of spears

and just as deadly north Africa and in some areas of south America some parts of Texas are no fun either.

 

 

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