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tinderwolf

What happened to Survival?

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I had a longer post already wrote out for this topic but my internet went down and it got deleted. So, I'll make this short and sweet. Look at the top of this webpage and you will see a guy hunkered over in the snow trying to start a fire, most likely lost in the woods. This is one of two types of survival, being lost in the wilderness and trying to make it out or prepping for a break in our infastructure. I've just seen a lot of topics and comments lately referring to "zombie apocolypse" type of survival situations. I'm tired of gamers ( and other people) thinking they know so much about firearms and tactical operations and survival just because they play video games and saw it i a movie. I don't have an AR decked out with $10,000 of accessories to be "cool" in a survival situation because survival doesn't call for that. I don't want to know how to set up explosives on my perimeter because I saw it in a kick ass movie. Survival isn't fun and it sure as hell is not cool. It is hard work, dirty, ugly and I hope you don't have to go through it, but if you do knowledge, logic, being practical will see you through. It is ticking me off that the survival arena, which is filled with people that have tons of knowledge and know how, is starting to be filled with people who have a fantasy of what it can be like. I know there are those out there that would love an event to happen so they can bring out all the stops and be there own lawman. Survival, killing people, being hungry and thirty and worrying about your family is not cool. IT IS SURVIVAL NOT WAR. But you know what, without a society, without an infastructure, without humanity and morals and people willing to try to rebuild and make things better than there is no progress. Running around like it will be Mad Max (good movie by the way) is just survival to survive. That is a circular path with no growth or future, and I don't want to be apart of that. I know this is going to tick some people of....but I don't know, what do you guys think? Maybe I'm just having a bad day...

Edited by tinderwolf

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I think you have a very good point. Survival isnt fun in no way shape or form, but maybe instead of saying im getting ticked off at these people who really dont know what they are talking about, maybe you should say "hey this wouldnt be a real survival need how about looking into this(insert disired thing)" so that you can steer them in the right direction for when and if SHTF. I also regonize i am one of the people who is a gamer BUT do have actual tactical contributions that can be made to furthering the survival of my self and family along with anyone with a topic on here that i see that i could contribute to.

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the only way to make things cool is to tell others about them. if you tell others about your preps, then you not only are going to have to deal with the normal survival stuff but will have a whole other set of problems on your hands. the idea of survival is to mitigate as many dangers as you can, and spouting your mouth off to everyone only serves to multiply those dangers and undermine the effectiveness of your hard work and planning. as for the zombie apocalypse stuff, i think you get a 50/50 mix of folks who use it as a euphemism for all survival situations and the video game hippies who think its funny. the difference between the groups is that those who are using it as a eupehmism probably have realistic weapons with multiple uses and know how to use them whereas the hippies have super mil-spec trailer queens that theyve shot 5 times at a range with no formal training other than call of duty. the latter group, with no training will be up shit creek without a paddle when SHTF because they are doing it for novelty rather than safety. a tool of any kind, without knowledge of how to use it only serves as a danger to themselves and others. that might be an interesting convo in and of itself. how to prep for hippie zombie conspiracy theorists with big guns, big egos and not a lick of knowledge.

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I am a gamer too and love movies, but I don't talk about things that I have no knowledge about, instead I ask. I understand how it can be fun to talk about such topics but just don't understand people who prep for zombies. This site isn't too bad with comments of this sort, and I know that I should just ignore comments but one place that is really bad is youtube. I can't believe what people say when I see videos of US troops in iraq or other weapon type videos..."oh yeah that is my favorite call of duty gun and I would do this and that." when the closet they get to outside is looking out the window. When people are willing I do share what knowledge and suggestions I have that pertain to survival, though I don't share my own supplies and prep information.

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Hey Tinderwolf:

 

forgive me that this is a long post but I think it may take some in depth statement.

if you look up some of my posts I hope you see the information I am trying to impart.

No your not having a bad day I think your right but survival and war are somewhat interlinked.

but sometimes the fight is internal / mental can start as an individual or group believing their situation is

unacceptable and causes it to evolve into another.

funny thing is society has already broken down we have been gradually immersed,

like the frog that placed in hot water jumps out of the pot and the one in warm water dies as the water

gradually is heated and he fails to see his dilemma.

In one way I understand your feelings of a future without progress and civility well if you think its not

possible look at certain areas of Africa.

 

Allow me to state this is my point of view and I have have good reason to see things this way.

 

I have friends of every color, religion also atheists and agnostics all political leanings and alternate

lifestyles their choices and mine have consequences, if you think i am wrong try to defy gravity....

if asked I give my opinion without malice or contempt if you hate me for my view I accept that and avoid

you and try not speak anything about you unless I explain to others that i might be biased.

Example if you hate baseball or hunting i am not going to make it the key conversation when we meet.

In my life I have always accepted people for who and what they are I only ask of others

the common courtesy of not attempting to steal from me or harm me or insult me for no good cause and I

return in kind I accept you have a right to your beliefs and customs and will respect your right to live the

way you choose, But I ain't a door mat and a right to my life just as you to yours,if you try to harm me or mine I will cut your head off and stick it under your arm.

that being said I think you might have a sense of how I am.

 

some places war and death and butchery has gone for so long that those whom are left do not have the

skills to survive to grow food or even the trust to come together to have a better life they are so

embittered and fearful of the recent past will reignite and a flood of death and destruction will start over.

I do not care if I tick some off but the hope and grace that has lifted some of these people has been

Christianity the victims were united with the Abusers and it was amazing, the victims forgave and the

abusers cried and and are trying to help these people they harmed by working together the victims had

been disfigured and are missing legs and arms so the repentant abusers are helping and doing work and

building to help those who need help and the victims are are doing whatever they can to help.

I realize that Christ is not popular but real change only happens when all of us start anew as they say here "throw it down" do not look back at your deeds nor remind others of theirs try to love and leave gossip

and hatred behind.

Should you scoff I can only say that Love is a huge rock that never erodes it stands the test of time and

all those who fling themselves against it will destroy themselves.

that is the secret love is more powerful than anything even in death even a non believer is comforted

when someone who cares is present in their time of need...

I cannot and will not argue religion I believe in God and the trinity, God Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Religion is not something to cling to they can be false science does not have all the answers nor medicine

Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. A.D. 100 read his writings

there are writings of non Jews also find and read that also.

think I am wrong so what if I am? afraid I will love you forgive those who try to harm me this does in no

ways mean I do not have the right to defend myself family and others..

Judgmental of course we are whoever said we could not judge there are rules and laws that limit it scope

and love limits what we should do and can do and judgment should be given out by a impartial judge within the confines of law including a death penalty, why because the penalty existed before the crime if you

know you risk death and you choose to do it anyway why should we as a society cheat you out of what

you have won.

The reason I have included this message about God is that your right what is the point of living in a selfish hateful world we must not allow this way of life to prosper or we will see a zombie {mindless hatred}

Apocalypse.

tolerance is not a one way street.

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Well, seeing as how I started one of the Zombie threads allow me to address this.

 

I do not take this as a joke.

 

Yes, I play video games and watch a bunch of action movies, but I'm a 23 year old college kid, that's normal. I realize that real life post TEOTWAWKI or SHTF scenario will be absolutely nothing like games or movies. I know that. However, to discuss the absolute lack of a government or society as we know it after the fact is kinda depressing, and the Zombie thread is just a way to keep it a bit more upbeat (zombie keeping something upbeat, what?) and a way to have fun with prepping plans.

 

I did not mean any kind of disrespect to survival or prepping mentality, I was just trying to have a bit of topical fun in the weeks leading up to Halloween.

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Sharing isnt caring its dangerous when it comes to telling your prep stuff and defence stuff because you become a high value target...BUT giving tips on the other hand is a completely different story...tips IMHO help people figure out ways to over come their current problems, also war and survival are interlinked....look at africa...rebels are causing war to survive and if thr US finds themselves in a situation like the huge CME then people will band together and as they do start to run out of food and therefore have cause to attack other people which yes it isnt a WAR as we know it but it is conflict so being prepared for both things is good bc if you dont have defence then your hard work to stay alive will be wasted in the long term

Edited by Powers7rok3

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I am around your age and play games as well. I understand using it as a way for topical fun, I have done this as well and keeping it upbeat is fine as long as we remember it won't be upbeat for real and we remember the mentality needed for the situation. You certainly didn't disrespect me all at all ( i believe I added some comments on your thread on zombies=) and really nobody on this site is disrespectful at all, I appreicate everyone and there comments on this site, it is one of the few sites I have to visit numerous times a day.

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Tinder,

I do agree with you 110%! I have a friend who i trust greatly and who also has an interest in prepping(not nearly to the degree I do, what its whatever), and how he thinks survival will be post SHTF is exactly like the game series "Fallout". All about guns and killing things to survive. I've tried to tell him, but hes rather hard headed. These zombie threads I belive are mostly just as a way of bring my generation more into the prepping, ya know, much like the CDC did with they're "Zombie Prepardness" Articles. I agree that some people may join the forums in the idea that its ll about zombies, and those people are going to do one of two things. 1) Learn about REAl survival. or 2) Only visit 'zombie threads to talk about they're zombie knowledge. Hopefully Delta's post will bring them more towards #1. Thanks for this thread though, it was a very good point!

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I am a gamer too and love movies, but I don't talk about things that I have no knowledge about, instead I ask. I understand how it can be fun to talk about such topics but just don't understand people who prep for zombies. This site isn't too bad with comments of this sort, and I know that I should just ignore comments but one place that is really bad is youtube. I can't believe what people say when I see videos of US troops in iraq or other weapon type videos..."oh yeah that is my favorite call of duty gun and I would do this and that." when the closet they get to outside is looking out the window. When people are willing I do share what knowledge and suggestions I have that pertain to survival, though I don't share my own supplies and prep information.

 

NOTHING in the known universe used to tick me off more than someone telling me they know what I went through in Viet Nam because they saw "Apocalypse Now" or "Platoon" or some other moronic (apologies to true morons everywhere) Hollywood trash about "how it really was". I've finally grown old enough that I don't have to respond. My usual response was that until they had been so terrified that they p*ssed their pants or had thrown up then they didn't have a freaking clue.

 

I talk about MZB because I think it is a foolish concept. Just like I fear the Zombie thing changes the perspective. It is a truism that you fight like you train. If you train using a gun with the magical infinite magazine and there is never an innocent down range, then that is how you will tend to fight. If you get used to shooting first and fast, that is how you will fight. (In Viet Nam I didn't kill a human being; I zapped a gook - made the emotional baggage easier to carry; for a while). It is also dangerous to get used to the reset button. There isn't one in real life.

 

If anyone thinks they can go through a firefight and not come out of it changed they are either an idiot or are lying to themselves. In either case, I'd stay away from them if I could. We tend to use survival and prepping interchangeably and they are not. Survival is what you do when a plane crashes or a sudden storm catches you. Prepping is what you do for TEOTWAWKI.

 

There is nothing wrong with games, as long as you realize that the game is designed to provide action and entertainment. Reading the diaries of the early pioneers it was mostly boring, HARD work. That doesn't make a very exciting (read profitable) game.

 

There is a new thread in the general discussions on what forms TEOTWAWKI might take. It is worth paying attention too. I tend to study history and I notice we humans seem to repeat ourselves. I suspect the same types of events leading to the fall of the Roman Republic circa 30 BC or the fall of France during the Revolution, or the fall of the Hapsburg empires or the end of Tsarist Russia. There was fighting but in many if not most cases the fighting was either between competing, organized armies OR was very short lived. Much terror and one on one type encounters but unless you are a very rich prepper, you can not afford the logistics trail to fight a war, MAD MAX (yes, a great movie) not withstanding.

 

For a true survival book/movie think about "Cast Away" or "Robinson Crusoe" or the ultimate survivalist, the Yankee captain (Cyrus Smith) in "Mysterious Island". Enjoy life of course; just don't think that it is improving your survival skills. It is highly unlikely that any of the modern game makers are survivalist or preppers. Just my not so humble opinion.

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great input by all

and regardless of weather your a gamer just the fact that your on this site

and take the time to give a real opinion or pose a even though improbable question its stimulating

and gives one pause.

and trying to lighten things up well that a good thing too.

I hope some of this does warm you up to getting prepared hey if nothing else an extended unemployment or

an accident if you have prepared for a worst case scenario puts you sitting pretty.

a friend got somewhat prepared his job ended the gas money and food got him through till he got back on his feet.

none of us may see never see anything happen, but the thing that keeps going is that I know that most

everyone does not want it to happen and I hope that "they" will pull out all the stops to prevent it.

but there are concerns and young people would not waste their time learning some old techniques in fact

some are making a living restoring and reviving old trades like sail making blacksmithing natural healing is a

very old trade as long as you avoid some of the dark parts it has solid chemistry behind it now that science

forages the world over for new drugs and topical remedies to treat medical problems some are snake oil but

some are well founded but doctors are needed too there are things green tea just won't handle IMHO...

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A tool of any kind, without knowledge of how to use it only serves as a danger to themselves and others.
Mental image of coming across someone with a spork embedded in the side of their neck.

 

The zombie factor does bring in a different generation. I'll openly admit back in high school I used to read zombie forums but a lot of the discussions were survival skill related that's how I found my way to legitimate survival sites. I know a lot more about surviving in the woods then surviving a urban environment with other people who want to kill me or steal my supplies that is why I read and contribute more to those topics. Maybe that is just me though.

No real survival situations are nothing like fallout and explaining that to anyone who thinks it is takes a lot more time and then I care to spend explaining things. This is a problem that does show up people want to see TEOTWAWKI because they think it will be exciting and Hollywood and video games give the end of the world a romantic appeal. Ask anyone who has ever dug trenches with a shovel for farming, war, construction, etc. and they know its hard work. I personally love that we have a stable supply line of gasoline to fuel tractors to do it for us. Ask anyone who has walked 15 miles a day up and down hills well lugging a good amount of weight on their back for a few weeks strait and they will tell you all about those first few weeks it took to put on calluses. The kids who sit around playing fallout and expect survival to be just like the game but a lot of them haven't worked really hard for anything so until they get that life experience there's not much you can do other then give them a copy of the road and tell them to watch how much fun no one is having.

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Autonomous thanks for your input and your right

 

anyone who has had to do dirty hard work like bailing hay farming cleaning stalls feeding animals

home slaughtering just going to the hardware is a pain rebuilding pumps fixing equipment

and this is the good old days hand power and air, fuel, electrical, hydraulic equipment helping at every

step one person can do the work of 10-20 men and horses and or mules a day.

with tractors front end loaders backhoes add on equipment like brush hogs post hole diggers arguers lifting dragging pulling so many others attachments the amount of food production for man and animals would be 1/10 and if there is no refrigeration oh boy yes this is the good old days...

 

 

whats real funny

about people who think it will be exciting have never been in a situation where you attempt to insert a

magazine upside down and backward and almost accomplishing it.

and as you speak of all that stuff with you it takes

a gallon of water under normal situations per day 8+ pounds

7 pounds for minimal rifle ammo about 11 mags

rifle 7 to 15 pounds

pack 30 + pounds day pack and other stuff like 4 mags and a side arm cleaning kit knife & sheath poncho

map compass binoculars pocket knife extra socks clothing first aid food light stove tools shovel toiletries

gloves canteens 2 with cups note pad nip pic rope carabiners length dependent on terrain nothing fancy

clothing boots belt pouches knee elbow pads helmet food

ok now your toting 60 to 70 pounds

now your going out to scrounge and your afoot no gas and if your going to scrounge it

5 gallons = 30+ pounds and how far do you have to travel round trip

I hate toting my weed eater i like life just the way it is convenient people from others countries come here

and are flabbergasted at the selections of food in a store we have 1 Isle just for cereal.

I love the way things are and I hope everyone finds common ground and works together to keep it this way

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Just read the original post and

I can certainly understand the frustration with survival being glorified

 

think of it this way, these "gamers" are interested in the same stuff you/we are, survival, maybe for the "wrong reason" as you see it, but a persons first step into a new interest may not be up to par with veterans in the field. It is a step in the right direction tho. If we were on a Camaro forum, there would be old gear heads talking about the "fast and furious" kids who only care about burning up tires.

My point is, that with re-direction and education of actual skills and preparedness, these "gamers" could be the guy next door who blasts a zombies face off when your back is turned.

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I hope I did not disparage any gammers anything to get people motivated or interested is a good thing.

 

If you want to see zombies go to any downtown area at night all the crack heads and crazies gas and paint glue huffers and pill poppers and recent releases from the psych hospital they do not keep them if they don't have insurance

and prisons give the parolee a bus ticket to the area they are paroled to and if they don't want to go to the appointed place they wander the streets so all you young guns just remember that when someone wants to go downtown.

oh another great place to go is Washington some of those folks look like they have been bitten and about to turn LOL

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Survival, killing people, being hungry and thirty and worrying about your family is not cool. IT IS SURVIVAL NOT WAR. .

Tinderwolf, I see your point and as others have said, "at least they are getting started". Hopefully by reading your comments and many of the others on this site and other sites dealing with real scenarios; they will become better informed and their plans and thoughts will evolve.

As for "it is survival not war"; War is only "glamorous and romantic" AFTER your home, because while you are there, it IS survival. I hope anyone thinking of going into the military realizes that and doesn't think it's like games. CaptBart said it best about "people knowing what happens by watching a movie". Movies don't do do justice to the smells of burning flesh and even Hollywood avoids the bad publicity of showing the father carrying his 4 year old daughter for 3 days through the desert after a ragtag group of idiots (JAM) bombed their house for just having a "greet" with a patrol who stopped by while he was working in the "yard". She was DOA when he reached our base (being burnt beyond anything I ever seen) but he carried her to get aid from the nearest military hospital.

I believe like you that the tricked out AR is not the best choice for a survival weapon, but I do think in certain scenarios it could be useful. If a true TEOTWAWKI occurs, it could be needed to defend your loved ones from the renegade gangs of non-preppers or the gangs who think they just got a free ticket to do as they wish. A .22 rifle is probably the most versatile survival firearm and coupled with a good scope and great marksmanship; it will serve the purpose of defense as well.

I actually am working on an article about the "what to think about AFTER the event and rebuilding". I sent a draft to Capt and the Cache editors to see what they think.

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I have seen a few sites about Zombie survival and I gotta say, I think the community here keeps it about where it needs to be. Don't get me wrong, I like the movies, my nephew makes me play COD black ops whenever I see him, but it's most def not my focus as far as prepping. Don't let the name fool ya, Zombies would be the worst, I guess my name is poking fun at the idea that after a disaster, there could be so many issues involving Gov., other people, gangs, rebuilding, that Zombies would just make things simpler. "Don't worry about establishing a new form of currency there's a friggin Zombie chasing us" sort of thing. I think surviving a disaster would be more fun than not. I haven't been stuck in a full blown disaster, but I have been in sticky situations, even life threatening, and after I was smiling, maybe I'm sick. I think that you have to think logically and rationally when it comes to prepping and survival, but in my opinion life's too short (disasters or not) to be serious all the time. I love this site because the articles are great, I trust the gear and book reviews, and it has a nice little forum for opinions and the opportunity to go a little off topic. "a little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men". I mean come on, Bart openly admits he likes the Tremors movies.

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Ok....You know I just a good ole country boy....on here trying to become more knowledgable about surviving when the SHTF....and I have found some really good stuff on here and have even modified some of my plans after reading the post....but let me say this.....I am not a gamer...never really was into any type of vido games...but if you are...then thats fine with me.....but I am just a bit confused about this Zombie issue.....could someone please explain to me...what you guy's are talking about when you say Zombie....the only zombie's I know of is the kind in the movies...now are you guy's trying to tell the rest of us.....that when the SHTF....one of the cause could be a real life take over by the walking dead......or are you all refering to something else and usinh the word ZOMBIE for a code word.....would someone please enlighten this ole country boy on the zombie subject...I served 26 years in the army and have been in some pretty deep s**t up to my neck..... been all the world plus some....and I have never really seen any of the walking dead (Zombies that is).....thanks in advance on the zombie info.

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Ruger92,

I don't know the complete story of the Zombie craze. A bunch of movies I guess but the term MZB for Mutant Zombie Bikers came from the Mad Max type of movie. Shooting zombies became a way to talk about using weapons without the baggage of killing people since they are already dead. Then the government jumped in with their website on being prepared for a Zombie invasion. I THINK they were just trying to "coat tail" on a popular set of shows to get folks into being prepared (that is worrisome enough). I belong to a Tremors (movies and series) fan site just because I like the shows and they contain my favorite survivalist - Burt Gummer.

http://burtgummer.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

For most folks I think that is the lure of Zombie anything. That and the games.

 

The Zombie links get into things about zombies (like the Tremors website does) that the fans talk rather seriously about but that have no bearing in reality. Folks who can't handle the deadly seriousness of prepping can talk about the need to have a 5.56 or 7.62 to stop the zombies. Unless there is a top secret government lab somewhere that is doing experiments on making zombies, the "undead" don't exist. Heck, even the Animal Planet TV network had a thing on "Zombie" alligators. (effects of a nerve degenerative disorder)

 

In general it is a fun escape avenue (fan clubs in general are this way - Star Trek to Star Wars to Harry Potter) and it does provide a non-threatening way to talk about prepping because no one (?) takes it seriously. The down side, to me at least, is that it forms a mind set of shooting first and often. Not a good thing. After having been down that road in Viet Nam, getting calloused about killing a human being is not a good thing. Zombies are already dead so shooting them doesn't count but in the real world, even the MZB are people and we will have to deal with the emotional results if we have to pull the trigger.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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I look at survival prep as working towards a very real reality that my family *could* likely see someday. I've been to war and seen the elephant from the front lines. I lived out of an Abrams and washed my underwear in my helmet. Even then we were up the creek if an endless supply of MRE's and diesel weren't being trucked to us weekly. 20 years ago it got me thinking "what if there were no more trucks?" That fancy 60 ton boat anchor I was living out of would have been the master and commander of 4 kilometers of empty sand.

 

Since then I've done a lot of reading a lot of prepping and run through endless scenarios in my head of how much to stockpile, how much to prepare to create, what things matter and who I would or wouldn't associate with "post event". Yeah, I take it pretty serious.

 

All that being said, I constantly refer to the 'zombie apocalypse' or just as often the 'hordes of the great unwashed'. It's actually a way more comfortable vocabulary for non preppers and doesn't instantly jump you to a message of "I think it's likely society will fail and neighbors will be killing each other for gasoline in this generation". It lets you both laugh it off but maybe a more real discussion comes of it. Maybe not. It's not a fantastic leap to substitute 'zombie' for 'crazed desperate and unprepared person' if you want to have a real conversation.

 

I'd also advise being careful about taking yourself too seriously. Though I can't quantify or justify it I am convinced a sense of humor and humility will be key to the survival of any group. I don't plan to sacrifice mine. ;) Now if I could just find some humility....

Edited by BuckWild_Abrams

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