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tinderwolf

Bug In, Zero Hour

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Here is the situation.

Your alarm goes off and you get up to start another day, coffee, shower,off to work...Then an emergency broadcast goes off say that some type of event ( choose your poison, zombies, mass riots, epidemic) has happened and you can not leave your house, at least for two weeks. Also, lets just assume that for this two week period all your utilities will still function properly. After two weeks the event will still be happening but you will be able to leave your home. Its bug in time. Are you ready, what would you do first, what are your priorites, will you take a defensive or offensive role in your homes security?

I will list my plan later, for now I'm interested in hearing from you guys.

 

Bonus question: In a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event, would you EVER take something from someone else if you didn't have that item and you needed it?

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Well it kinda depends what's going on, but lets take riots, more likely to happen. I think we're well set for 2 weeks, even longer if need be. Food, water, supplies, 2 weeks is nothing. A few years ago we were almost a week without power, sucked, but it was kinda nice in a way. The only bad thing is that after 2 weeks, if the event is still going on, you're going to want/have to resupply, and that will be a bad time.

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I all ready know my Achilles heel is water. I have enough on hand to go 3 weeks usually but if I loose running water its 10 miles to the nearest surface water. So fill bath tubs and anything that holds water first. Then assess the mess. if its riots or zombies i keep playing with the idea of reaching out to neighbors to fortify the street but I might be the only one with firearms which raises a multitude of other problems. If everyone comes together to fortify the street there's more safety but then i feel some what responsible for those who didn't prepare not to mention there's a lot of kids under the age of 10 on my street and well I could probably turn there parents away with out too much guilt kids are a completely different issue. I guess I'd probably hide inside for the first 2 weeks securing my property line and anything with in rifle range sort of under the hope that some of the less supplied bug out. Some fortifications would be built or added to existing fences but 2 weeks is well with in the boundaries of my survival preps so my main focus would be security.

 

As for taking something that depends heavily on the situation. If I shot looter treating my self or others i have no moral dilemma depriving there bodies of any weapons or supplies. The hard thing about this question is it's easy to take the moral high ground with food in your stomach and good hydration but go 2 days with out water or 3 weeks without food that's where some of the more vicious aspects of human behavior start coming out. I don't know because I haven't been put in that position yet but it makes things a lot easier to have enough supplies on hand to stay inside and let everyone kill each other over canned corn until the chaos outside dies down.

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Before Zero Hour arrives, run practice drills (keeping in mind that "Survival Is An Attitude" and that running practice drills enhances that Attitude). Randomly shut off the electricity for a few days - (particularly in the winter) - go for a few days without cooking on the kitchen stove or microwave - go for a week without buying anything - ETC.

 

These kind of drills quickly point out your areas of vulnerability. After the drill, make adjustments and do another drill. Practicing (just like the fire drills we used to do in school) will sharpen your survival skills and preparations. While running drills remember - if you can't survive a practice drill, you likely won't survive Zero Hour.

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Before Zero Hour arrives, run practice drills (keeping in mind that "Survival Is An Attitude" and that running practice drills enhances that Attitude). Randomly shut off the electricity for a few days - (particularly in the winter) - go for a few days without cooking on the kitchen stove or microwave - go for a week without buying anything - ETC.

 

These kind of drills quickly point out your areas of vulnerability. After the drill, make adjustments and do another drill. Practicing (just like the fire drills we used to do in school) will sharpen your survival skills and preparations. While running drills remember - if you can't survive a practice drill, you likely won't survive Zero Hour.

People might start to think I'm strange if I walk around my property with a sidearm, AR, and vest on lol.

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People might start to think I'm strange if I walk around my property with a sidearm, AR, and vest on lol.

 

It is for that very reason that I carry a .380 autoloader 99.9% of the time (leave it under the car seat when going into the Post Office or other Government buildings - if a business has a sign on their door saying "no firearms allowed" I don't shop there.)

 

A .380 autoloader is small enough to easily conceal in my pocket. As for the AR and vest - not necessary just for running preparedness drills - good to have in a live situation.

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It comes to mind the people in new Orleans

although few were deprived of a way to protect themselves because they let it be known to authorities so walking around your home visually armed would probably attract undue

attention.

 

I would more than likely bug in acting as if I had the flu a little of my old ladies make up

because at first we are far enough away from any large cities.

 

during 911 my neighbors descended on me woke me out of a restful sleep and asked what should we do? I told them to act like a hurricane fill up all your gas containers your vehicle

do all your shopping make sure you have batteries water etc...

America has this sense of righting a wrong I expected the response and actions to be like

when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor but more direct.

 

what really scared me was the flash crash of the stock market if it would have hit bottom

oh no the breaks are off money is something that motivates everyone.

It has an immediate impact when your debit or credit card does not work you are ticked

if your bank states you have -0- in your account and you just made a deposit you butt

puckers.

and this is in normal situations now imagine the countries broke you can not access your

account the bank is closed and no online transactions and you cannot buy gas or food or

water and your household is depleted the cupboard is bare scenario.

 

This is a TEOTWAWKI nightmare no time to prep the very first thing as mentioned is water as mentioned above gas if you can get it all you can get I keep a 30 gallon barrel and

everything else I try to keep full and have gas cans for my generator.

needless to say there would be wide spread panic and statistics state that 10% take

anti depressants 10% are mentally impaired from mild to severe now the prison population

2 million don't sound like many but all the SOLVED crimes they are responsible for this

does not include unsolved crimes.. make you think because if the countries broke how are we going to hold them,

criminals have been saying for years "we are going to overwhelm the system".

how many people have more than 90 day supply of medications?

 

This place will be berserk is the only word other than pandemonium imagine drug stores

grocery sores and gas stations looted by normal people within days.

the suicide and murder rate will make Mexico's drug war look mild

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Here is the situation.

Your alarm goes off and you get up to start another day, coffee, shower,off to work...Then an emergency broadcast goes off say that some type of event ( choose your poison, zombies, mass riots, epidemic) has happened and you can not leave your house, at least for two weeks. Also, lets just assume that for this two week period all your utilities will still function properly. After two weeks the event will still be happening but you will be able to leave your home. Its bug in time. Are you ready, what would you do first, what are your priorites, will you take a defensive or offensive role in your homes security?

I will list my plan later, for now I'm interested in hearing from you guys.

 

Bonus question: In a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI event, would you EVER take something from someone else if you didn't have that item and you needed it?

My first thing every morning routine is to check out http://www.spaceweather.com/ to see if we are looking at a Carrington Event. I then check the weather (local, state and tropical), then the news. That lets me know if I am going to work that day. If TSHTF, I'll decide, based on the event, what course to follow. Obviously hurricanes get a different reaction than riots spilling out of downtown.

As for the bonus question, I assume you mean take from a living person who needed the article for their own survival. The answer is no, I would not. The reason horse thieves were hung in the west was that it was almost the same as cold blooded murder. Put a man on foot out in the tall and uncut and you essentially killed him. To take the supplies that someone is depending on for yourself is the same thing; a probable death sentence. All kinds of circumstances that mitigate such actions but the basic, underlying fact that can not be ignored is that I have decided that it is OK for you to die in order for me to live; even though you have done me no wrong.

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I also agree w/ Capt. There's something my dad always told me (you can plan, prepare, and think how to handle a situation. But until it actually happens you won't know for sure. but when it does stay calm, keep a level head, and think). He lived from 1913-2005. Figure he seen a whole lot of what this country and the world can throw at you and he survived it. It's helped me get through some tough situations. The toughest raising 3 daughters after their mother died. Well just my 2 cents worth for what it amounts to.

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I also agree w/ Capt. There's something my dad always told me (you can plan, prepare, and think how to handle a situation. But until it actually happens you won't know for sure. but when it does stay calm, keep a level head, and think). He lived from 1913-2005. Figure he seen a whole lot of what this country and the world can throw at you and he survived it. It's helped me get through some tough situations. The toughest raising 3 daughters after their mother died. Well just my 2 cents worth for what it amounts to.

I have a variety of medals, citations, etc. but I think the toughest and most "heroic" thing I have ever done in my life is to be as good a husband to my bride and father to my 3 kids as I could possibly be. I learned that from my Dad who was the greatest man I have ever met. That said, You, sir, have my admiration. Raising 3 kids, especially daughters, without their mother is heroism of the highest order. My hat is off to you.

 

Well done, sir,. Extremely well done, indeed.

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I am new to the dad thing (just over three years) and I cannot imagine doing it alone. My wife is the rock of this family. Capt Bart is right, awesome job. I also agree with Bart on the issue of stealing from someone to survive. I couldn't do it. Murder is not something I want to be a part of ever, and he is right, depriving someone of what they need to live is murder. As for looting dead, that depends on the situation. Not all situations are equal. There is no black or white (except where we choose). As for the original question, I feel confident we would be fine for two weeks. My first goal would be to ensure local security, then to carry on as if nothing were wrong while the children were awake. At night, I would work with my wife on our GTH (Go To Hell) plan, and we would use the time to implement it. two weeks is a long time, and it gives you time to think it through. If the event happened while I was at school, work, whatever, my wife would get a call, giving her instructions, and I would work on getting home. After that, same routine. Some things you just have to plan as they come.

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Great input by all as usual:

 

Let exemplify my answers:

 

the Titanic, WWI, 1929 stock market crash, 1930 to 1936 dust bowl

the attack on Pearl Harbor 1941 and many others

jump forward and we have had 2 tsunamis in less than 10 years

earthquakes, floods, killer storms, tornadoes and volcano's

 

and strangely enough I can barley find information on many recent disasters without

giving a specific name it is almost like information is so specific it may as well have

been sanitized from the network database.

I know they happened but without a specific date or name, nothing...

 

my point are you people loosing your grip!

how many times does something have to happen before anyone in this county gets it.

is it the drugs? have you all been ingesting to much carbon monoxide on your way to work.

 

Your are never going to get a heads up period! if you do the time is not enough

to do anything that's why you prepare and stay prepared &^%*))!!!

 

to hell with scenarios and what it might be I know one thing, it will be something

and though the rest of the world or even America may not even remember it

an hour after the broadcast you will if its your town and your butt,

 

We are living with an ageing infrastructure a dam or a bridge or a power plant

water treatment etc I am not going to get to specific but you should see that things

could have a catastrophic failure the history channel has been harping on these

facts for quite a long time.

 

Some of these wont hurt or kill but a few, but the far reaching effects in a connected

society like ours you could be without water for months no sewage try that one.

no quality electricity brown outs off and on harming your electronics and equipment.

 

you need to prepare for everything and anything if your wiped out make sure you have a

video record for insurance replacement and keep it current like every quarter.

 

If yours is the only house after a natural disaster how are you going to be able to help

to hell with the zombie apocalypse or TEOTWAWKI these things happen with such frequency

I guess that people have become immune, last month a whole town was wiped out,

were you in rehab? forgot to pay the cable bill?

 

Many are going to find out too late that your opportunity to save your family has past

procrastination and doubt has killed more people than pure stupidity and that's a lot.

 

our food I have seen comes from more than a 1,000 miles away in most cases

pineapple bananas other tropical fruits wheat mid and north west mainly

rice the south about 1% of the worlds rice and over seas the rest.

medicine more and more it's made out of country oil only 40% from here.

 

If it is TEOTWAWKI I not giving away anything period.

a natural disaster I will see, but is not up to me to save you if you have been told

by the government TV shows radio commercials and I hear some say what should I have

ARGHHHHHH what do you use now X 10 buy it date it with a marker and use the oldest one first

simple it always has been. many are dragging their feet because they spend the money on

video games or renting them money is sacred if you piss it away it will haunt you.

 

If you will look at my posts you will see that I harp on 25 year canned foods

many act like they are from an alien world you eat them every day

what you think that everything in that can was fresh vegetables PLEASE..

for a family of 4 it will take the area of a 10 x 10 room to sustain you 6 months

if you use the bottom 2 foot of every closet and under every bed not a problem..

keep you pantry full your gas tank full average tank 200 to 300 miles.

I see some live in apartments fine rent a storage space as close as you can.

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exert from http://thesurvivalmom.com/2011/02/21/do-you-need-a-gun-to-garden/

I was at a local shop talking with the owner about carrying the DVD in his store. He was congenial enough, but looked me right in the eye and told me “I will never need to grow food”. I told him that you never knew what was coming and being able to grow food could be a crucial skill. He flatly told me he would never have to grow food. I asked him why, and he said “because I have this”, and from under the counter he pulled out a big black semi-automatic gun.

 

I stared at the gun not understanding, and I asked him ‘What do you mean?”

 

“Well, if anything happens” he said, “it is like this; with this gun I can get all the food I need from people like you who grow it”.

 

Several customers who had been listening in on the conversation agreed with the shop owner. They were ordinary looking people and I would have never guessed they would have this kind of thinking.

 

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An excellent post as usual from the survival mom. Thanks for sharing it.

 

SLIGHT RANT!

 

We have spent the last 4 decades teaching our kids that there is no morality, no God, no need to deny ourselves instant gratification, "if it feels good do it", they are OWED what they want and are ENTITLED to it even if someone else already owns it. I do not wonder at crap like this. I am amazed that the clown with the "big black semi-automatic gun" seems to think that I won't have a "big black semi-automatic gun" of my own with which to discuss his planned acquisitions but then the schools don't teach logical thinking, do they?

 

END RANT!

 

 

I'd also bet he is of the "spray and pray" mentality for combat operations. These clowns are why it is so important to live gray. I do not want to ever have to kill another human being. I'd rather stay gray and be left alone. The trouble with the 'gun fighter' mentality is that you can never stop once you start and your life expectancy is very short. There is always someone faster, better or just plain luckier than you are. When you meet that person, you lose.

 

There is a level of ostentation that I think is useful - the folks in New Orleans who manned the barricade to their subdivision with the "looters will be shot" signs maybe saved some poor, misguided soul from making a fatal mistake after Katrina. On the other hand, too much of that and the imported cops show up in force to confiscate the guns. I do note that although I heard of them taking the guns from individuals, I don't ever recall them trying to disarm any of these groups. They may have been walking on peoples' rights but they weren't stupid.

 

A fine line to try and walk but if done correctly it might save lives; yours or theirs. I also put the shop keeper firmly in the Mall Ninja category. These are the clowns who think it is cool to kill because they've played video games and they're good at it or they think it makes them sound/look tough. If they ever run into a real warrior they'd lose big time; they are just so unthinking that they think everything will play out as they image it with them as Mad Max. They have no idea how much physical, mental and emotional training it takes to make a decent soldier. Even if they were in the military it was long enough ago they have forgotten what basic training was like. They should read "the Hobbit". Adventures almost never turn out as we plan. They are always more uncomfortable than expected and take a much larger toll on us than we thought.

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"if it feels good do it", they are OWED what they want and are ENTITLED to it even if someone else already owns it. END RANT!/QUOTE]

 

I don't know what happened to the quote.

 

The point I intended to make - the rate of B & E's here in Mich. has gone down drastically since the liberalization of our Castle Law. It's good to be Gray - but it's also necessary to carry a big stick while doin it. The "I've got a big gun" mentality is the reason why.

 

When the bad guys know that a home owner (particularly where people are living out in the boondocks) has a legal right to kill them, they tend to be much more selective in where they attempt a crime.

Edited by LivingGray

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"if it feels good do it", they are OWED what they want and are ENTITLED to it even if someone else already owns it. END RANT!/QUOTE]

 

I don't know what happened to the quote.

 

The point I intended to make - the rate of B & E's here in Mich. has gone down drastically since the liberalization of our Castle Law. It's good to be Gray - but it's also necessary to carry a big stick while doin it. The "I've got a big gun" mentality is the reason why.

 

When the bad guys know that a home owner (particularly where people are living out in the boondocks) has a legal right to kill them, they tend to be much more selective in where they attempt a crime.

 

Yep, Teddy Roosevelt was right. Walk softly and carry a BIG stick. Of course, as in "Alas, Babylon" if the BGs don't know you have the stick, they may do something dumb and make you use that Stick. It is a thin line between OP SEC and so secret you make a target out of yourself.

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I love coming back to threads and see how after about a page or two posts start veering off topic abit and then become something else! Sometimes it makes it more interesting than the thread that was posted, I only say this because I posted this thread. That was an interesting article by the survival mom. I love how some people who have guns think it is the end all tool for everything....kind of like how some people think just because you have 4x4 wheel drive in your vehicle you are 8ft tall and bullet proof. Four wheel drive will get you into just as much trouble as it can sometimes get you out of. So I only need a gun to garden huh? what happens when I run out of ammo? What happens when I consistantly run into groups of gardeners with more guns than me? These type of people have only one type of mind set and it is very hard to change and it will get them into trouble because they won't adapt easily.

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Capt Bart hit the nail on the head with regards to the "big black rifle." "SLIGHT RANT!" What pisses me off is that everyone sees gun owners, and 2nd amendment activists as that guy in the store. Inconsiderate, uncaring F-tards out for number one. they also seem to miss the point that the second amendment doesn't say "Guns", or "Rifles" or "Muskets", or "Pistols" anywhere. It says "Arms." Can anyone name some "arms?" How about, katana, nunchucks, bowstaff, bow and arrow, claymore (The kind you swing, not the kind that goes boom), knife, garrot, a big heavy pointy stick, a rock, keys, the list goes on. Anything can be an arm, if you possess the knowledge and mindset to use it as such. "END RANT!" Sorry about that, but it is a frustrating topic for me. I think George Carlin said it best, "It's not the quiet ones you gotta watch out for, its the loud crazy ones who come into the bar screaming 'I'm gonna kill the next mother#$%^&% that comes in here' while banging his machete on the bar." That guy with the rifle, is the loud, crazy guy, and he gives us quiet nice guys a bad name.

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Capt Bart, agree completely. but i would rather deal with the 1 man with a gun pushing to get what he wants then the 99% horde showing up demanding there fair share of my supplies, crops or what ever. unfortunately when people like this band together you get the worst of both worlds. Which, not to take us farther off topic, is part of why I feel any long term situation would require you to work with your neighbors a bit because I would rather stop the trouble in the neighborhood 5 houses down then at my front door.

 

mike, no I'm pretty sure numb chucks are illegal out here in California... probably the lawmakers way of reducing ninja attacks... you know because of all the ninja attacks we have... *shakes head*

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Four wheel drive will get you into just as much trouble as it can sometimes get you out of

Tinderwolf, slight disagreement. 4X4 can get you into MUCH more trouble than it can get you out of. That's why search and rescue teams have to go find them multiple times every year!

It says "Arms." Can anyone name some "arms?

Mike, agreed but remember, "God made all men, Sam Colt made them equal". At 62 and slightly crippled I suspect a great many of our gentle readers could clean my clock in an equal fight. Since I define a fair fight as the one I win, I assure you that I only fight "fair". Never pick a fight with an old guy, if he's too old to fight you, he'll just kill you. I didn't say that first but I wish I had. Any weapon that requires close physical contact is an invitation to being injured yourself; part of the reason knife fights are so bloody.

...unfortunately when people like this band together you get the worst of both worlds. Which, not to take us farther off topic, is part of why I feel any long term situation would require you to work with your neighbors a bit because I would rather stop the trouble in the neighborhood 5 houses down then at my front door.

Autonomous, Yep. Only thing worse than a mob is an ARMED mob. The convenient thing about an armed mob is that it makes the decision to open fire much easier. I also agree that, long term, co-operation is the only way to go. I do not desire to live in the world of Mad Max. Human beings are social animals and we need our society to be fully human.

Good insights all of you.

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Yep, Teddy Roosevelt was right. Walk softly and carry a BIG stick. Of course, as in "Alas, Babylon" if the BGs don't know you have the stick, they may do something dumb and make you use that Stick. It is a thin line between OP SEC and so secret you make a target out of yourself.

 

The point I was intending to make - when one has the legal right to use lethal force, it is less likely that they will have to do so. BG's have the advantage if they live/conduct their criminal activities in a State where there is no Castle Law or where the laws about using lethal force are very restrictive. If the laws in your State are very restrictive about defending yourself and/or home, you need to work with your State Representatives to change that law so that you will be less likely to have to defend yourself and/or your home.

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Mike I do agree with you about the "arms" wording. Everyone attacks gun owners, yes guns are specifically designed for killing. But you know what? ANYTHING can be used as a deadly weapon. I can kill you with a tomatoe if I wanted to. Get the guns out of the hands of all the scumbag criminals and leave law abiding, tax paying citizens alone.

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you folks are funny

I have not laughed so much since UNTIL I been on this forum

 

BECAUSE ITS ALL TOO TRUE

most every post is straight to the heart of the matter, great stuff.

 

Autonomous:

ninja attacks LMAO do not let the tsa know they might bar us having credit cards

remember that movie where the guy kills another with a credit card

no wonder they wont let us have nail clippers Hi YAAAAA!

 

and tinderwolf Aasoo the old tomato ploy.

 

yes we have our hands full trying to educate the uninformed

and pass a little humor most people work so hard and have no time

to research that is why I include web sites so they can go find stuff,

and hopefully they will be interested because these are the people

I want to survive the hard working people who make our lives livable.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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The point I was intending to make - when one has the legal right to use lethal force, it is less likely that they will have to do so.

LivingGray,

Funny how that little fact is never the headliner on the evening news. Never is a long time and I try never to say never but I NEVER intend to live somewhere that I can't legally defend my family. I love the west (east of California, of course) where the right of self defense is recognized.

 

Everyone attacks gun owners

tinderwolf,

I try to understand my opponents. Have you ever considered why gun owners are so attacked? My pet theory is that we make them nervous. Sheep dogs always make the sheep nervous.

Our "betters" don't like to deal with those who have the temerity to make decisions for themselves. Gun owners make the most crucial life/death decisions for themselves. Every person I meet, I have to decide whether or not to shoot them. It is now automatic of course, I don't think about it unless I've gone to Condition Red for some reason but we do make that decision, each and every time. For good guys, the default is not to shoot but it is a decision.

Why do I need the ruling class if I take care of myself and my family? I didn't need a freaking village to raise my kids. I needed my wife and the love I have for my family to teach them to be responsible for themselves. That makes folks like the current occupants of the white house very, very nervous. That is why Big Sis thinks of me as a terrorist. She doesn't impress me and that is very threatening to her. Just my not so humble opinion. How does it feel to know that you terrify our ruling class?

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