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Capt Bart

Best Places to Survive

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This isn't intended to be a which is best type of thing. I'm linking here from Survival Cache but I'm including the article here as well. The idea is to discuss and explore the advantages and difficulties in all the various environments in which we might find ourselves.

 

The article is copied below for those not following

http://survivalcache.com/

 

Your thoughts, questions and opinions are welcome.

Edited by Capt Bart

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LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION

 

Each of us lives in a unique combination of terrain and climate. We make our preparations based on that combination; it is an almost unrecognized “given” in all of our assumptions. It is occasionally beneficial to examine those “givens” and see if maybe we have left a blind spot in our preparations.

 

To start, let’s consider what is required to survive. The number one, kill you quicker than anything else is air. Without breathable air, your life expectancy is less than 5 minutes in normal circumstances. With sufficiently cold temperatures and prompt, effective medical attention you might be able to stretch to 20 minutes but don’t count on it.

 

Next is shelter – depending on conditions you may live less than 3 or 4 hours based on extremely hot or extremely cold weather. Wind speed, humidity, precipitation, your wet or dry condition all effect how long you can live without shelter.

 

Third is water. Although most folks think of this first, the truth is you can live 3 to 5 days without water depending on conditions.

 

Finally is food. After about 5 days a lack of food begins to seriously degrade your performance, depending on environment, but it does take up to 30 days, maybe more, to die from starvation.

 

OK, each environment changes the priorities and length of time a small bit but those are the basics. Now, what does each area bring to the table? If you could choose any spot/climate on earth where would you be when TSHTF?

 

I’ll start with where I am, which by the way is one of my least favorite locations. The tropical and semi-tropical coastal areas have a multitude of disadvantages. Humid weather, hot or cold, makes the climate uncomfortable year around. The constant moisture makes mold, mildew and spoilage a constant problem. In this environment every cut stands a risk of infection and takes a long time to heal. Massive tropical storms in the summer (although we had a January hurricane a few years ago!) and violent cold fronts in the winter are always a danger. Spring and Fall are times of violent weather because of the unstable air and high moisture content.

 

There are some pluses of course. If you are comfortable with the ocean, the sea is always a source of food and salt. If you know how to make/use a solar still you can always get water. Winters rarely have long periods of below freezing temperatures and only moderate winter gear will usually get the job done.

 

The desert regions are perhaps the most difficult survival locations. In the southwest, there is very little water, extremely high temperatures (122 degrees in the shade will kill you quickly if you get careless), wide temperature swings every day from near freezing to over 100 makes clothing selection difficult. Not having a hat is dangerous. Extremely dry air demands constant hydration; heat exhaustion/stroke is a constant danger. Unless you are a real desert rat, finding food is difficult. It is impossible for a large group. Travel is very difficult and if your next water hole is dry, you are dead. Dust is a constant enemy for anything that moves or needs lubrication. Every thing is either poisonous, sticks, or stings. I have affection for the desert, but it is not a soft life.

 

The Great Plains are the breadbaskets of the world, as well as the home of the great herds. Water may be hard to find, but it is there. Wood is rare. When I lived in Oklahoma we had a saying that seems apropos: “There is nothing between you and the North Pole but a barbed wire fence and some idiot left the gate open.” Cabin fever was and is a real danger. In 3 years in Oklahoma I only remember 4 days when the wind was not blowing. Wind Chill has a whole new meaning here. Massive thunderstorms and tornadoes are a constant threat. Unchecked wind can blow away any attempts at farming.

 

Perhaps my favorite clime is mountains. The cooler weather seems to be healthier. Infections are not as frequent, life spans are longer, and the forest that are usually there are a very useful resource. Water is abundant in most areas. Summers are cooler but shorter. Winters can be brutal, depending on elevation and latitude. Farming can be difficult but in the valleys fertile land can support agriculture.

 

I have a bias against being east of the Mississippi, may just be a westerner’s prejudice but I am more comfortable out west. Given that, the eastern mountain ranges offer a milder refuge than the western peaks. The Appalachian Trail connects some beautiful country that would provide mountain refuge to those who could live there.

 

While there is plentiful game in the mountainous regions there is also a predator problem that doesn’t exist in other climates. Bear, cats, wolverines, wolf all demand consideration and some type of mitigation.

 

The region also effects weapons selection. In the “big thicket” of Northeast Texas you might get a 50-yard shot, maybe. It is definitely carbine and shotgun country. Long barrels and scopes are worse than useless there. Parts out west are rifle country. Up near the tree line in the Rockies, thousand yard shots are doable if the shooter and weapon are up to it. In the east, the heavy forest cover makes the really long ranges are not present. You may get mid-range shots but there is also a lot of carbine/shotgun county.

 

I have opened a thread in the forum

http://www.survivalcache.com/forums/showthread.php?298-Best-Places-to-Survive&p=1985

for your thoughts and opinions.

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Capt. Far North is my answer. The farther the better. Because - most people are not equipted to survive in that environment.

 

My wife and I have been on week-long camping trips 50 miles North of Lake Superior in January. For the whole week, we never saw another person. Night temps were down to -20. We camped in a tent and sleeping bags that are rated to -40. The very worst part of sub-zero camping (Surviving) is if you have to get up during the night to urinate. To get into that back country, we drove North as far as we could on a logging road (4X4 with chains on the tires), then parked - loaded our gear into our packs and a 4 ft. toboggan and snowshoed in another 2 miles - used the snowshoes to pack down a flat area in the snow, and set up camp.

 

Being that we are retired, many former friends have suggested that we winter in Fla or Az. We still head North.

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LivingGrey ..thanks for reminding of Boy Scout camp(troop 578) above Lapier,and 4 ft snows and a mean wind coming off of a graet lake.

I live near the Appalachian Trail and for me these moutains offer more,Its about wood and the ease to get,Timber is a good bussiness here,so plenty of old loging trails not on maps.Water is an easy find with the many runoffs from the valleys,National Forest is less than 2 miles(of course you have to walk up and over a mountain to get to it)away.The area is workable for a small farm and land is not completely out of site to purchase.Im working on this now.So for me Im ok,would I want to be someplace else ...oh heck yes(Gulf Port ,Texas or Florida)..But to adapt to what you got is what its about and making it work..Long view..

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Gray,

I was raised on the gulf coast of Texas. First time I really saw snow was in Germany back in 72. Moving an artillery unit in waist deep snow was enough to make me think I really don't want to be too far north. I suspect the problem is I really don't know how to survive comfortably in below zero temps in the far north. While recognizing that there is cold weather along the Appalachian trail, I am more comfortable that I can survive in "lower 48 cold" than "far north cold". I actually think I'm more of a desert rat than a mountain goat but I did like the area outside of Phoenix and up into the Prescott area.

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Very interesting topic Capt. Where I would want to probably be is north, canada. Not as much of the land up there is as touched by humans like it is down here and I love the woods. Cold is easier to deal with than heat, at least in my opinion. Easy to make shelter, plenty of water and food available. Where I'm at isn't too bad though. I live in the midwest, east of the Mississippi(sorry Capt!) by just a little bit. I like the environment because it is not one harsh climate year round it offers quite an array of environments. however that can also be a negative because you have to be ready and have supplies that will work in all four seasons. I am within short distance of a couple of major rivers so water would not be an issue as well plenty of shelter materials. Hunting and fishing year round would not be much of an issue either so I guess where I currently am is quite ideal.

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I love the mountains. 2 people in a properly made igloo will be warmer then a tent. The biggest problem I have is the snow near here is kind of slushy at the beginning and end of snow season. But I would rather deal with that then living in a desert having to get water from a solar still.

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Capt Bart: After several years of wandering around the lower 48 looking for what I like to call a “retreat site”, I finally settled on a place a couple years ago. I had developed for myself a set of criteria which was supposed to help me look for a site where my family and I would have the greatest chance of survival if the predicted (expected?) OMG, SHTF, or TEOTWAWKI really did happen. An abbreviated list of my criteria was: (1) the retreat could be no more than 1 tank of gas away from where I and my family lived and worked; (2) the retreat site must be further than 9 miles from an Interstate or major highway; (3) the retreat site could not be close to a large city or large town; (4) the site could not be seen from the nearest road or neighbors; (5) assuming that a person can walk at a 3mph pace, then the retreat had to be at least 3 hours walking (9 miles) from an Interstate/major highway, 70 hours walking (210 miles) from a large city or town, and 8 hours walking (24 miles) from the nearest small town that has a grocery store, hardware store and hospital/clinic; (6) at least an acre of the site had to be flat but there also had to be lots of trees; and (7) there had to be a good source of water on the site – either a well or fast moving water. As I said earlier this list is just the abbreviated short list. The original list got modified a lot of times by the family and the full list is way too long for this reply. Once I found and acquired the site getting it ready for habitation was a chore. I started by betting my 36’ RV to the site. Getting it there --- well, that’s another story. Oh yeah, the site is in Eastern Kentucky. Life is good.

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101matt: In my search for the right retreat for my family the closest I got to Wardell was Clintwood in Dickenson County. Wardell didn't make the list mainly because of my self-imposed criteria "the retreat could be no more than 1 tank of gas away from where I and my family lived and worked." Even Clintwood and Clinchco were stretches mileage-wise. Neverless, it great to have neighbors in VA.

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101matt: I'm not much of a gardener but I do believe that all preppers should keep in stock a plentiful supply of heirloom seeds for growing and for bartering. I currently buy from http://www.amishlandseeds.com/, a small single employee site in PA. I will most definitely add your recommendation to my list of resources. Thank-you.

 

I would really like to hear from anyone reading thos thread who has, or is beginning to, establish a retreat site. How did you choose it? What difficulties have you had setting it up? Any lessons learned that you'd care to pass on? It's actual location is not important, just getting it ready for occupation if necessary. Thanks.

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Excelent site,thanks.EPHRATA, PA.very knowledgeable about the area...lived in Lebanon myself..lol Check some of the other postings for people who have already have a bug out site..For myself its water and timber,some level land.Just for food of thought,basement?Ground easy to dig?Out buildings,tool shop,close or near main structure,Barn(storage)animals,goats,rabbits..alternet heat and power..concrete blocks or foam,You build or have someone build.

Sorry....its an on going A D D moment for me.. I started with Moores building supply in 1978...oh well

will send you if information if I find it. ..Matt

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Living in the southeast I'm going to the woods or the mountains a little to the north. I guess the woods is where I feel the most comfortable. I know theirs cover, water, and food their. In the USMC I was trained for the Jungle. I wouldn't mind being in the north in the snow but it's just to far to get to from here in a quick SHTF

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I had a similar discussion with a friend of mine a few weeks ago. I live down on the Texas gulf coast and I have only ever really gone camping in central/west Texas, basically Texas is what I know. For that reason I would prefer to survive somewhere in the Southwest region in Texas. While going north might be easier, I just don't know that area like I do my home turf. for example I know the four types of venomous snakes in Texas. I know that the biggest predator I may have to deal with is a cougar, but I also need to watch feral hog, coyotes, and gators near the gulf. I know that a .243 rifle is the biggest thing I need to hunt any game in the area.

 

currently my planed Bug out spot is my dad's ranch, its closer to the gulf than I would like but he's got a solar powered fresh water well, a few firearms, and best of all it's a cattle operation so I got beef for years. plus its out of the way and not on any major highways

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The hubs and I were just discussing this the other day. His plan would be to head north to a family cottage because there would be woods, plenty of fresh water, good hunting, and an easy way to heat the house. Cons being that there is not enough room for growing food.

 

My plan would have us going west to my family's land in Iowa. Plenty of land for growing food and keeping livestock, a small woods, hunting, and a spring on the property. The biggest drawback is it would take more than a tank of gas to get there.

 

Capt Rob, I like your criteria list. Kinda makes me want to look for a nice piece of land a little closer to home.

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Mrs.BacktoBasics: It would be a crying shame to have a well stocked retreat site that you are unable to get to if an event occurred that required it. Keeping the site close also makes it easier to get to just in case automobiles are out of commission (EMP?) or the roads become impassable (earthquakes or civil unrest?). My family and I have two alternate forms of transportation just in case --(1) properly equipped bicycles with trailers and (2) cross-county hiking (ouch!). Our individual go-bags are planned so that they can be reconfigured for any of the three potential forms of transportation. Of course, a more practical reason for having a retreat site close is that you'll be more likely to actually use it more frequently and thus keep it well stocked and make improvements easier. I can't the times when one of my family came to me and strated a sentence "You know, if you just did ..." Fair winds to you and your hubs.

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Hi, many of these areas are ok and many of these ideas are ok if they are not in the line of fire? One has to understand how tectonic plates work,and what is affecting them and how. If it is nibiru and a poleshift,then you can exspect hurricane force winds up to 300 miles an hour. during the shift and they will obliterate most above ground shelters and camps, If there are meteors their will be firestorms. The cities will burn most likely anyhow. Tidal waves will reach at least 500 feet high and come inland up to 200 miles. At one point the tidal waves in japan after the earthquake, were said to have reached 180 feet above sea level andf 6 miles inland. the earthquakes during a poleshift would make the 9.0 at japan look small by comparison. Large lakes would slosh out of their boundries up to 15 miles on flat land and sweep everything back into them in a huge mass of mud. Large rivers like the missisippi will change course and flood almost whole states. Especially if there is a new madrid fault earthquake of 8.0 or larger. Then there's the fema camps??? Friend or foe? I think foe overall and well to be avoided like the plague. In case of nuclear war,good to have a shelter underground and away from big cities and army bases and nuclear power stations. Avoid areas with nuclear power stations at all cost! 1 tank of gas away from a big city is nowhere far enough away! Take along an extra 10 gallons of gas and go farther. because everyone who can will at least go a tank away. A metal 25 to 40foot shipping crate buried into the side of a hill about 25ft deep at least is ideal. And water proof would be good. you would need a camoed entrance. if the location is in between two large hills there's protection from the wind and other types of blast that you may be affected by. Survival is not all dependent on survival skills and military training? Good leadership is even more neccessary than these! And wisdom is greater than knowledge. I will put up more post as i have time, good luck to everyone!

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If it is nibiru and a poleshift,then you can exspect hurricane force winds up to 300 miles an hour. during the shift and they will obliterate most above ground shelters and camps,

AmrahAoson,

Welcome and thanks for the post. There is a point at which preparing for some event is a waste of time. For example, to think that something is going to happen on Dec 21, 2012 when the solar system passes through the galactic equatorial plane is to assume that approximately 12,000 years ago an event similar to a gamma ray burster but involving the mass of the galactic core occurred and is focused at the spot where the solar system will be on 21 Dec 2012. That is approximately the travel time at the speed of light from the core to the solar system. IF that happened, at that magnitude, the earth would be sterilized to its core if anything in the solar system even physically survives the blast. I don't worry about it simply because there is absolutely nothing one can do in the case of an unsurvivable event.

 

The pole shift fear is based on a misunderstanding of an actual physical event. The earth's MAGNETIC poles can and do shift over time, sometimes fairly rapidly on a geologic time scale. What a great many folks think is that the actual, physical rotational poles swap. Nothing short of a collision with an object the mass of Mars could cause such a swap; the energy required is HUGE and it would mean the destruction of all life on earth. The earth might congeal again out of the debris cloud but we'd all be dead. The energy required for a "sudden" swap would tear the planet apart - the tensile strength of the rock is insufficient to handle the forces. Again,and in spite of some fanciful TV programming, not worth the worry. Asteroid impacts are real and can be extinction level events but are very rare. We do have a shot at seeing them coming, we are looking, but so far we're OK. The odds are much better that there will be a "meteor crater" (in AZ) size event. Locally devastating but not globally disastrous.

 

I always urge folks to prep for the most likely scenarios first and work their way up. For me to worry about a Chicxulub event (K-T extinction event) or even a Tunguska event,(circa 1908 Siberia) doesn't make a lot of sense if I am not prepared for a major Hurricane on the Texas coast. That hurricane is guaranteed; the asteroid impact may not happen for a million years. In earthquake zones, prepare for the next Mag 7 quake. We KNOW the Cascades Fault off the coast of Washington state is going to unzip. We don't know when. First prep for the winter storm, the hurricane, the earthquake that we know will come. That gives us a good base for the next level preps and we don't waste time, energy and funds on events that are not likely in our lifetime. Worrying about what is unlikely and unsurvivable leads to fear and paralysis. Not good survival tools.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

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Yeah there's a list of events that can whip out everything on our side of the planet or more but there is a longer list of things that we have recorded happening that could just beat up your city of county. I don't plan for meteors or nuclear annihilation because it is going to be more dumb luck that it doesn't land in your back yard. Where if my city gets flooded because the levee breaks the cabin in the woods is very adequate. You'll notice we have a zombie section but no one is seriously preparing for zombies there preparing for pandemics or civil unrest.

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Hi, In the phillipines,and indonesia, Thailand and all countrys on or close to the sunda plate there is massive flooding. Yet their governments are not informing them of why or what to do. Yet 1000's are dieing? The governments of the world know mostly what to exspect, they will not inform the comman person. Just keep paying your taxes and going to work,so you can keep funding the massive underground shelters that the elite are building for themselves and their cronies. There are earthquakes and volcanoes happening on unprecedented scales. The worst weather globally in a 100 years at least? But its ok you dont need to be awake, just stay in denial. Its where the powers that be, want you stay. We havnt had this kind of tectonic plate movement on the planet in recent recorded history? Yet i keep hearing people say what the pitiful science of mankind says is possible or is not. Would NASA lie to us? Would the governments lie to us? Any awake spritual minded soul knows they would and they are!!! Time to drop empty philosophys and trust your gut instincts. Its getting bad on planet earth and its going to get alot worse very soon! For whatever reason you'd like to choose, prepare for you and your loved ones, and maybe put a little extra aside for a friend or neighbor.

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Preparing is what im urging people to do, and to awaken spiritually as well. Both are necessary. As for mag 7 earthquakes? Japan was a 9 mag earthquake. aceh banda was an 8.9 as well as the earthquake in chili. all 3 of these moved the planet off its axis by so many degrees. Then there's haiti, As well as many other extremely deadly earthquakes in the last 20 years? Much more so than even in the last 200 years. This isnt global warming, although there is a little of that. The magma in the earth is heating up exponentially and causing more radical tectonic plate movement. History teaches us that this is the case every 3600 years. And records in the bible and the kolbrin bible. I do not find my conclusions from fanciful t.v. shows!!! i have studied all this and much more for many years. As well as many thousands of web pages and books to arrive at such understandings. And as i said Wisdom is worth much more than all the knowledge of so called scientist? Would you like monsanto to plant your garden this year,with some ge seeds.And big pharma kills many more people over time than they save. At the cost of billions of taxpayer dollars. Where as most natural cures have not harmed but healed, and had for 100"s of years. Most science is theory, nothing more. The massive object in question does not have to impact with the earth to cause a pole shift. It could be millions of miles away and be dense enough to affect the normal magnetic portals that bind the earth in its orbit with the sun. As they say gravity sucks, its not the strongest force in the universe by far. The universe is electrical and magnetism is far more potent than gravity. The chances of anyone living near costal areas and surviving the ongoing and upcoming catacysms are almost zero! So preparing on high ground about 2000ft in elevation and 200 miles from any coast would be highly advisable. The magnetic north pole has been moving towards siberia at over 50 miles a year. The south magnetic pole has moved even farther and faster. This has been happening more all the time as scientifc observations over the last two hundred years document. Does it require a 10 mag earthquake to tear open the new madrid fault for people to wake up? Well this is what the U.S. government is expecting. and preparing for. So yes urge people to prep and also urge them to study and open their minds. This is no childs fairy tale meant to frighten. It is reality and it is happening now and will get much worse before its over!

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AmrahAoson,

Welcome to the site. Interesting rant, but it loses something if you first attack science and scientist as nothing but unsubstantiated theories and then tell me that science "proves" the poles are shifting. The earth's magnetic poles have switched multiple times in the past but that doesn't effect the physical location of the the earth. The magnetic field on the earth, like on the sun, is relatively disconnected from the physical material of the body. The Sun's field swaps every solar cycle but the rotational poles stay put. The earth wobbles a bit about the polar axis but it always has on about a 12,500 year cycle IIRC. Many things to prepare for of course but unsurvivable events shouldn't be first on the list, in my not so humble opinion.

Your distrust in government is probably well founded and if your area is along the 'Ring of Fire' I can see where earthquakes and tsunamis figure large in your preps.

 

As a NASA employee and astrophysicist (yes, I am a 'rocket scientist') I find it interesting that many folks want it both ways. Science proves and NASA lies doesn't play well. I always urge folks to prepare for the most likely events first. In any coastal area that is probably hurricanes/typhoons but it could be earthquake/tsunami. Prep for what you see is MOST likely (government shutting down food distribution if you're a conspiracy theorist) but do what is most likely first and down worry about the unlikely/unsurvivable events until you've taken care of what will almost assuredly happen.

 

You may not want to take my advice; that is your choice but in my not so humble opinion, worrying about 21 Dec. 2012 is dumb if you're not ready to survive a storm this spring. Prioritize or it can be overwhelming.

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Capt Bart: I think what I enjoy the most about this forum sponsored by Survival Cache is that it really makes me think. Your thread on Survival and Location especially has grabbed my attention. I've now gone back and re-read thru the thread three times. It is chocker-blocked with good information but, I think more importantly, it is filled with real, honest emotion. Not only have people out there thought about where they believe is the best place to go if they have to GOOD but it is apparent that they have a reason why they have chosen their location. Whether that reason be fires, floods, earthquakes, meteor strikes, EMP, zombies, etc, etc, what is clear to me is that people are preparing. We must all remember that by failing to prepare we are preparing to fail.

 

Whatever the reason, What is coming thru loud and clear thru these threads is we all must set a goal and prepare. A wise man once said that the time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining. Now is the time to prepare while we still can.

 

On a lighter note, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only "rocket scientist" participating in this forum. Thank-you Capt Bart for your insight, facts and opinions. Which reminds me that the reason there are no rocket scientists in the hottest parts of hell is because the existence of a 'hottest part' implies a temperature difference, and any marginally competent rocket scientist would immediately use this to run a heat engine and make some other part of hell comfortably cool.

 

But I ramble. Fairwinds

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