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Texas Bill

NOT AR vs. AK

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I like the lever actions a LOT and have a bunch of them. I like the 30-30 round real well. In the East Texas piny woods it does a fine job for white tails out to 150 yards or so. I have that round in a Marlin. I killed my first deer with a family gun. A Savage 99F in 300 Savage. The Savage rifle and the round were doth way ahead of their time and still plenty for deer out to 300yards. My Winchester is in 357 mag and I just love it. I have several thousand rounds plus another thousand or so in 38 special. The 357 mag in a rifle is a good stopper out to about 100yards and is plenty for most anything that I plan on shooting. At close range (50 yards or less) I'll put its actual stopping power up against either the 5.56 or the 7.62X39. I will NOT be shooting FMJ all the time with it though I do have a thousand rounds in FMJ for it. I also have several 500rnd boxes of bullets and a bunch of Unique and primers so I'll be shooting it for a WHILE.

 

If I have to I'll pull the bullets out of the 7.62 rnds and load them into the 30-30 after I file the points off them. While I do indeed love my Ruger 10-22, I just get a kick out of my little Henery large lever carbine and my old hammer-less Winchester lever-action 22 is still fully capable of 2" groups at a hundred yards. That was my first rifle and the start of my love of the lever-action.

 

For years I toted a Ruger mini 14 and shot thousands of rounds through it. I would still take it over an AR and the Mini30 is better than the AK as far as toughness and dependability. I hand loaded for it and it was deadly. Someone made me an offer that I couldn't refuse and I sold it along with 2000rns in stripper clips and 8 30 rnd mags. I had paper on that gun and was in the gun selling business. When I got out after Waco I sold everything that had paper on it.

 

Over the years I have had a lot of odd calibers like the 300savage. I have about a thousand rnds for the Russian Nagant 7.62X54R and another can full for a 7.5X54 French Mas 36. If I ever have the money I really want a Winchester 45X70 and a Marlin in 444 marlin.

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The only useless caliber and if it is all you have well it is better than a stick, is 25 auto

 

and not for the reasons most might think a 22 is way better in price of ammo and most have better

sights than a 25 and cost is not far different between a name brand 22 or a 25

 

I can get 200 rounds for what you pay for 50 - 25 auto and barrel length in 25 is usually 2 to 3 inches

not enough to build a good head of steam.

 

the positively worst pistol and caliber is a 8MM Nambu no wonder the Japanese lost the war

what a piece O crap I saw one of the gun shows on TV a guy wanted one or a magazine for one

and paid dearly like I said some people just want the unusual hey some people collect dinosaur crap.

but that is not my thing.

 

 

rim fire has many bullet weights and from BB to sub sonic to ultra high velocity and hollow points

25 has barley a hand full of choices and they are all loud.

 

the best and at the same time the worst rifle caliber is 22 hornet factory ammo is great trying to reload

is a exercise in frustration, ammo is not cheap and not easy to find in bulk much less more than a few boxes at a time unless you order it even then the company may not have a bunch at one time.

 

to me the absolute worst is .17 remington WTF talk about an odd ball this is the definitive odd ball

and ammo is not common at all I have only seen 2 rifles in this caliber I have seen more carcano's

made into lamps than that.

 

there are a few more but time to get some shut eye I will piss and moan about more crappy calibers

later.

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Bill,

the 30-30 was brought out to give the westerner a better chance against the browns and grizzlies. Back in the day, IT was the big gun for hunting anything smaller than a bison. Interesting how times change. Yep, the 30-30 is plenty of gun. I have a 'Western Auto' 30-30 (Marlin made for the hardware chain) and I like the thing a lot.

 

Danm,

Yep, I think I fell in love with the lever gun at a Saturday Matinee when I was about 7. ;) I've never lost my affection for it. Now that Hornady is producing the Leverevolution ammo and I'm not limited to flat nose rounds it is even better.

 

Snake,

The .17 has a place - if you're out after prairie dogs in Oklahoma, that flat, accurate 300 yard shot is what you want. I'm not sure it's worth the price to play (there are other flat shooters that work as well) and it is severly limited in what it can do so I'm not a fan. Still, if you really hate prairie dogs .....

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I sat a jury that gave a fool life in prison for shooting a guy from across a car. He put his hand in the passenger side window and shot the driver three times with a .25. Scared the dude half to death. He bailed out leaving his girl friend in the car in the passenger seat. It was winter and he had on a light coat. He was hit three times in the side without having a single one get past his skin. The bullets were in his shirt loose when the cops caught him. LOL. Three band-aids and he was good to go. He could have done more damage with a pointy stick. I'm with Snake it is about useless. Give me a 22 SHORT rather than a 25.

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Darn. Now I need to go out and find a carbine that shoots .25 caliber just for giggles. Just kidding. I have heard similar stories over the years about the anemic .25 caliber and the question bugs me as to who thought such a round was a good idea?

 

Going in the other direction, have any of you ever owned the Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine? What is the scoop? I was looking at one the other day but the price scared me off.

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Texas Bill

 

wear hearing protection you loose a lot of velocity due to barrel length but if you have the carbine what the hell

 

but use the remington 110 round nose soft point ammo and it would not be my choice against hogs and deer

 

head shots it has out of a carbine 600 pounds of energy and 9MM has got about 350.

 

now my thought is out of a pistol you will loose 10 to 20% velocity SWAG METHOD

 

{scientific wild ass guess}

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Darn. Now I need to go out and find a carbine that shoots .25 caliber just for giggles. Just kidding. I have heard similar stories over the years about the anemic .25 caliber and the question bugs me as to who thought such a round was a good idea?

 

Going in the other direction, have any of you ever owned the Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine? What is the scoop? I was looking at one the other day but the price scared me off.

 

No, but I have fired a .308 out of a TC Contender. Even a 'long' barrel pistol is going to lose something to the longer barreled rifle. The good news for the carbine is that it was designed for a shorter barrel than most rifle rounds. I suspect the .30 Carbine revolver would be fun to shoot but I also suspect that it would not perform significantly better than a .357 Mag. It might not be as good but I also think (again, I do not know and this is a SWAG on my part) it would out perform a .38 SPL.

 

If you just want one or to have a common handgun to go with the Carbine, I'd go for it. I'm wondering about a second lead launcher for my M1 Carbine but in my case, I suspect it'll be another M1 Carbine.

 

I do like the Blackhawk but mine is a .45 Colt/.45 ACP revolver.

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Snake, Capt. Bart, thanks for the input on the 30 Carbine. I also think I will stick with the .357 as well, but make mine the Dan Wesson Model 15. That bullet launcher is way more accurate than any others I have tried and I like the double action. Never had a revolver in 45 Colt or 45 ACP but I can see how they would be handy.

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Has anyone messed around with a KelTec RFB? I'm interested, but its a bit outside my price range right now. Having a rifle in .308 that could serve double-duty as a sniper/hunting rifle and as an entry tool would make it very versatile indeed.

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Has anyone messed around with a KelTec RFB? I'm interested, but its a bit outside my price range right now. Having a rifle in .308 that could serve double-duty as a sniper/hunting rifle and as an entry tool would make it very versatile indeed.

 

Major,

I played with one but I couldn't buy it because the guy who owned it WOULD NOT SELL IT! The owner of the shop (it belonged to his son) had been trying to get one for upwards of 2 years and it was on back order. It handled well but I didn't get to shoot it. I really tried to buy that one one but no sale. I would buy one today if I could find it.

 

If you can't get one AND still need the .308 I suggest you consider the HK-91 (PTR-91 US made clone). I really like that weapon - it is carbine length, easy to handle, and my PTR is a tack driver over iron sights at 200 yards.

Edited by Capt Bart
sale vice sell

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The only 25 auto ever made worth owning was the little Raven. It was a stamped out dirt cheap piece of painted crap that had one thing going for it. It went bang every time you pulled the trigger no MATTER what you did to it or with it. It was totally dependable and almost like a bad joke that the worst looking and least valuable 25 auto made was in fact the best of the lot. I sold dozens and dozens of them for 25 to 35 dollars apiece.

 

I treated the Raven a lot like I do my North American Arms 22lr Derringer. When I push it in your ear and pull the trigger you are messed up! I call my NAA22LR "Earfloss" and carry it everywhere especially when I'm wade fishing. Snakes just HATE it because I keep it with rat shot under the hammer first.

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Damn

 

I like the NAA I have one in 22LR and another in 22MAG at 21 feet I can hit a pie plate every time

 

I like the 22 mag for a lot of reasons it has the energy 38 spl cheap ammo out of a snub but is very small

in an ankle holster or front shirt pocket behind a pocket protector it is almost invisible.

I like the over size rubber grip helps to control the little buggers a lot better.

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When it comes to the wee little pistols, my only experience has been with the Kel-Tec PF9. This little jewel fits in the palm of my hand so extremely concealable and is decently accurate out to about 20 feet. Funny to say on a 9mm, but the recoil is significant. If you spend some time getting used to it at the range, not a problem though. I have heard good things about NAA but I have never handled one and I am avoiding 22 mag simply because the last thing I want is another caliber to stock up. I have seen the 22mag is an upgrade over the 22 LR, so there is that.

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I understand Texas Bill if I would not have gotten it from a friend I would not have bought it

 

if someone considers a NAA I would go with the black widow convertable with 2 inch barrel

 

http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/minis/bw-1/bwc.html

 

it has REAL IRON SIGHTS either 22 LR or 22 mag and has the ruber grip stainless steel and

it is a real last ditch life saver.

once you have the sight picture down and grip about a box of shells there is not much need to practice

it is a belly gun not that you cannot miss but if you pay attention you should hit your target at "defense"

distances easily.

 

sometimes a full size gun with a backup is prudent store owners or people who deal in most any amount of cash or responsible for deposits or closing up in evening ought to be prepared.

women can hide one of these in their bra easy all the time and no one would know.

as for men a neck chain or any pocket even a forearm / wrist hold with velcro or ankle holster.

 

physcos know no bounds your at work and your being shot at by someone elses problem child husband or boy friend and the way things are going it could be a ticked off female.

 

Houston has had a string of kidnappings by unknown assailants shopkeeper shootings and people in parking

areas being robbed I know that this is not news and happens everywhere. I am all for give them what they want but if it looks like your dead meat might as well try to survive, if they have a gun and you don't have a good burial

policy if you can get off a shot you may can scare them enough to take flight if you can wound or drop them

you may have saved your own life.

 

Many times your a target because someone talked without thinking "OH bob had to make the deposit"

or some other minor but overheard conversation and someone may think your an easy mark.

if they jump or surprise you they might get one gun but not the second and you may still have a chance.

 

women have been put in the trunk without being tied or surprised at the desk and taken to the back

either scenario gives them the chance to turn the tables before things get out of hand.

 

A gun in your home, glove box, purse or jacket is useless and there are a lot of purse snatchers still in

the world so having a 45 in it does you no good.

 

and that is why I still carry more than one weapon, because I hate loosing.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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Snake, I agree with you, buddy. Somehow Houston seems to still be a scary place to live even with the government crowing about crime statistics dropping to 1965 levels. I wonder where the FBI is getting their numbers? Every night on the news the top two or three stories involve murders, followed up by home invasion gangs and serial rapists operating in multiple parts of the city.

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Anybody have any experience with an Iver Johnson Sealed Target 8 revolver in 22 LR? I was just looking for something for plinking and to teach my daughter to shoot down the road. It is old and doesn't have the bluing left but is solid and no rust.

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I have a Armalite AR30 in .338 Lapua and it is pricey to shoot. Recoil is like 20 gauge shotgun, I am still in learning curve with it and 3 shot group right under 5 inches at 1000 is my best so far, one deer kill at 560 and needless to say the wound was huge and instant death, it is my oddball round per say....22 9mm 223 308 and 12 gauge are also my standards.....the rounds I base preps on...

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Anybody have any experience with an Iver Johnson Sealed Target 8 revolver in 22 LR? I was just looking for something for plinking and to teach my daughter to shoot down the road. It is old and doesn't have the bluing left but is solid and no rust.

 

as long as the cylinder lock up is tight on all bores and the barrel is clean and indexes well I do not see a problem

depending on price as Smith & Wesson 21 are about 200 bucks so it needs to be a deal IMO or I would just

get a new smith some prices for older guns are way to expensive and there are some great deals on new or used name brand arms.

 

as far as blueing oxpho blue from brownells take off the grips degrease the steel with alcohol or trichlorethane

and clean it well use gloves and use a clean white cloth apply and let dry rub up with 4 ought steel wool and do it as many times as you want I do about 4 depending on the steel it can come out reddish to purple do not allow excess blueing to go / run into gun after it is dry keep it oiled in a clean rag and oil it every day for a few days

to keep the seams and joints from blossoming rust if it starts no problem if you take care of it right away wipe and re oil, eventually it will stop.

this rarely happens but I like to include this info so people do not freak out.

 

blueing is a chemical rusting that stops when oil is applied it kills the process I use WD-40 saturate it and after the steel holds the oil finish with a good gun oil like rem oil or breakfree unless in a dry dusty climate I use

dry lube.

 

WD-40 will mix with water and rust a gun so wipe it down well if it got soaked disassemble and dry well oil and

reassemble. I am not bad mouthing WD-40 it is just good to know if you use it.

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I am using a Weaver First focal plane mil-dot 5 x 20 power....a very good but not well know scope from Weaver....plenty of adjustment, side focus and very well built......Mil-dots are great once you learn how to use them...

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Snake, thanks for the info about WD-40. I used a heck of a lot of that stuff when I was a kid growing up on a farm but never for this purpose. I did get it for a good price and all the mechanical parts (what there are on a revolver) look solid. I think this is an old revolver that sat in somebody's nightstand or toolbox but was seldom used. Round barrel, not octagonal so not very collectible but I like the 6 inch barrel on it.

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sounds good I do like revolvers with a 4+ inch barrel

and like I said I am not bad mouthing WD-40 it is a great oil and cleaner as long

as there is low humidity and the equipment is dry we used it in the oil tank after bluing we would hang it in the tank to kill the blueing reaction it is thin enough to seep into all the creviceswipe it down and use break free on it.

cheaper than filling the tank with break free.

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Snake, Always good stuff to know and I agree that just about every revolver needs at least a 4 in. barrel for best performance, which is why I won't buy a snubbie. Well, that and I can't hit the broad side of a barn with one but that is probably just me.

 

 

Rjburk, I like Weaver products and I have found them to be very durable over the years. That sounds like more scope than I would ever be able to use, though, given my limited long distance skills.

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