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newbie questioning the overall concept of a lot of peoples "plan"

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Hi Goff,


I think I get your point; any significant group of people needs some kind of leadership structure. Every club for example has rules and elected officials. 100 random people just doing their own thing is not going to work during a coordinated attack from the outside. Nor will things develop very far without some kind of centralized control and infrastructure.


Understandably, many are scared of coming under the yoke of a warlord or tyrant, etc., but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. The Vikings for example had guidelines that everybody generally followed and ways to resolve conflicts like the means for a woman to divorce, a court to take grievances called the Alting (still exists in Iceland) and when things got really heated, regulated duels called Holmgaganga.


Naturally, some were more successful than others so there were rich Vikings that had more influence and even private armies but not kings and nobles, etc. When the Vikings when out to raid or trade everyone rowed, and took a turn at the helm, loot was divided equally after the dude who funded the raid got his share.


Not a perfect system, but women had property rights, right to divorce, could not be abused by their husbands without the scoundrel catching the wrath of her family, etc. As I said, some were more successful but most had a fair shot. Even our family names meant little just the "son of xxxx" or "daughter of XXX" which changed every generation. Every man had to earn his "nickname" so your rep carried far more weight then your name.


In summary, there are alternatives to the dictator/tyrant v/s serf models when people form societies.



Edited by Dangerwolfe

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Ps the sun oven is a product sold that doesn't use a parabolic mirror it's meant for baking. Parabolic mirror or fresnel lense gets too hot. Sun ovens sell I think for 200 bux


indirect heating better to have to much than not enough bare minimum existence and 200 dollars come on


a Fresnel lens cost a dollar I have a half dozen and a 3x3 foot one from an old projection TV


the sun is not reliable you can heat a piece of plate steel in minutes and place a barrel over it with your


food the residual heat will bleed off gradually and cook the food.


heat like water does not evaporate in a flash it does do over s period of time you can use this to make a


hot water heater. if you cannot figure out what to do or how to use 1,000 watts of power I am now


positive that our educational system is a flop.


Whgoff the sun oven is a parabolic mirror its just square instead of round.


did every one sleep through science class?


I do not offer too many opinions most are facts that I have real world experience in.


I have parabolic mirrors and Fresnel lenses and convex mirrors solar panels, aluminum, copper and stainless




anyone who cannot see that being able to boil a liter of water in less than 3 minutes turn it too steam and


condense it and collect it with a fresnel lens rode the short bus.

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Not sure what the argument is. Or if there even is one? Yeah I know what the differences between a fresnel lense parabolic mirror and sun oven are. I kind of am the one who mentioned them. Sun oven isnt a parabolic mirror. But in the grand scheme of things they all do the same thing as focus more sunlight in 1 given area. My questioning of which to choose was practicality in a shtf situation. Just as which is better spend all day fishing to catch 5 fish per day or build a fish trap that automatically catches 5 fish per day for you. In this scenario use a huge fresnel lense (one big enough to boil water definately costs more than a buck ) so spend all day turning lense and focusing it and refilling boiler and cleaning out salt and hoping lense doesn't rip a hole in boiler. Or make a huge (siZe of a house) solar still. It's just a huge piece of clear plastic with run off for evaporated water maybe over a tidal pool that way it's automatic and does all the work for me. My goal is to have as much automated processes as possible. I want my wave or wind powered generator to run the ice chest to get me a glass of ice to put in my cup of desalinated water go pick a lemon off lemon tree to squirt on the fish my fish trap caught throw in my sun oven and surf while I'm waiting on my dinner to finish cooking ;)

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Hehehehe, After reading all this I believe I need some of those paint chips that dude was eating!


I think I would certainly be concerened about where my potable H2o was going to come from.

Desal process is long, requires lots of equipment. Evaporation/condensation doesn't.


Carbon nano desal isn't far away and a thermal process was just released by Sylvan.





Unless you're a billionaire, I'd just move close to one of those artisian rivers somewhere

in the alps.

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Okay folks I'll bite,

I think the ideal situation to work for is a sort of early American states concept, small groups in somewhat close proximity with individual sovereignty and treaty for trade and common defense, work together to drive out " the savages" and let the groups balance themselves on idiotology and such if you agree to simple neighborly behavior than your good, if you are going to be a problem than go or get gone. Trade and specialization will naturally grow and each groups failure or prosperity will be on them. I really am not interested in ruling anyone and I guarantee I won't be ruled by anyone

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