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Danm

The ART of surviving

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The ART of surviving

 

As I’ve read the many posts and topics here I have noted that in general we are a pretty opinionated lot. I suspect that is a basic personality trait for a survivalist. We don’t tend to be sheeple and are mostly willing to go our own way even if it isn’t the way of the flock. With that in mind I write this for the newbies and people that are just starting down this path.

 

As you read here you need to understand that anything we say, no matter HOW authoritatively we say it, is mostly an opinion and may NOT be the best thing for YOU. Surviving and survival is a collection of skills and abilities that you then take and make into an ART. Art is an individual’s expression and just as no two people are alike, their art will not be the same.

 

I personally am a 6’2” 265 pound ox. Most of my life I’ve been a very strong man with an unusual set of skills and abilities. I have always been quick but NEVER fast. You’ve heard of the “fight or flight” reflex that is hardwired into people. Well I’m to fat to fly and don’t even TRY!

 

I used to bench-press over 300 lbs, squat almost three times that and could jump my fat ass up and grab the rim on a basketball goal without much effort. I have small hands and never could palm a basketball so dunking was hard but I could damn sure get up there.

 

My methods when I was young were developed with these and a few other rather odd traits in mind. I could carry a huge load and liked BIG guns. If I was close enough to touch you the fight was over and the butt kicking was about to begin. The advent of MMA finally proved what I always knew. In a fight judo was more dangerous that karate because if I could absorb a few blows to close with you I would then start breaking joints and bones and the fight was over.

 

Most of my survival methods back then were pretty crude but very effective because they tended to maximize my strengths and minimize my weaknesses. I figured I would live fast, ride hard and die young…Well it didn’t work out that way. I did live fast, I crashed a bunch of times and I didn’t die! Now I’m 60 with two great metal hips and thinking about maybe a new shoulder in a few years. LOL. It was time to change my way of thinking.

 

The MOST important trait for a survivalist is ADAPTABILITY! Some things you can’t change so you just have to adapt to them. Most of what I used to would have done I can’t do now. Now I’m actually a lot more likely to survive that I was back then. I’ve been into survival for over 40 years by the way. In the 70s I was a part of a group and was seriously preparing for a possible civil war, nuclear war or race war. Things were ugly and a lot of people were scared.

 

Now I am more likely to slip away quietly unnoticed than confront every problem that comes along. The picture that my art paints now is much different from the one I planned when I was in my twenties. I would much rather be the trader than the raider and will sell my skills now rather than use them to force an issue. I would rather have you see me as a valuable asset than have you fear me. I plan on slowly surrounding myself with others who are willing to work together and do more than just survive rather than going Rambo.

 

Now to my point… Each of you needs to make an honest evaluation of your skills and abilities. Skills can be acquired while abilities are God given. I was NEVER destined to run marathons BUT I can see almost in the dark. The night is my friend, I’m not going to run from you and I’m more likely to hold up in a small cave than move around a lot during the day. I’m a Bear not a Mountain lion.

 

Read these topics but don’t allow us to force OUR way on you because your way may be different. I like big guns and kick never bothered me much. My little girl is the same way so it isn’t just a matter of size. If you are fast and able, there is little on the face of the planet more deadly than a 22lr automatic in the hands of an expert. I watched a friend demonstrate this many years ago. He could put two holes in the middle of five playing cards that were each three feet from any other card and do it in almost one sweeping move. It sounded like a machine gun going RRRRRRRRrrippp! You could have a canon on you and it would be worthless when you had two bullets in your brain!

 

His arsenal for carry is a pair of auto pistols, a Ruger 1022 and a Ruger 7722 bolt that he can shoot like nothing I’ve ever seen. At a hundred yards I would be willing to hold up a card in each hand and let him shoot the heads on the kings. He’s looking into the magnum 22 rnds and the 17 cal rnds now. For me they are just too light but in his hands…MAN, he’s deadly.

 

I knew another little guy that had a thing for BIG guns. I sold him a model 629 S&W when they first came out. He is a small guy but handles the big gun like it was a part of his body. I look at 44mag as massive overkill unless I’m in Grizzly country but I have to say he made it work for him.

 

A lot of people spend a lot of time worrying about food. I have a lot around but if things go ugly I probably will quit eating it pretty quick. I can and will eat ANYTHING and if I may have to go on the lam I want my gut to be used to more roughage and raw foods than my current diet provides. Suddenly changing your eating habits is a great way to get the drizzling poops and THAT is not something that you want when you are on the move. I can live quite well on toasted bugs wild greens and an occasional bird or lizard. I have always drank from puddles so my gut is well used to the normal run of the mill bugs you find there. Fresh rainwater will not kill you and if you are used to it it won’t make you sick either. I can get by licking the dew off leaves in the morning.

 

My daughter is going to either loosen up or get REAL skinny. She thinks anything that didn’t come out of a store is gross! I graze in the garden for lunch all the time. I love radishes and carrots seasoned with a little dirt. LOL. Peas raw are wonderful and corn on the cob doesn’t need to be cooked for me to eat. My gut gets enough of this to make it work. If you’re not used to it it will turn you inside out. Remember, man lives for millions of years without water filters or refrigeration…but you have to develop your ability to eat and drink this stuff slowly.

 

Some people can lay and sleep ANYWHERE. Others NEED a roof over their head. I’m kinda in the middle. I like to get up off the ground but don’t need walls to be comfortable. I live in East Texas; think fire ants, snakes, scorpions and armadillos. I had an armadillo break into my tent one night and it almost caused a RIOT!! I thought for a bit that my wife was goin’ ta shoot me! First it was the critter that scared the hell out of her and then it was something about me braying like a jackass at her that pissed her off. They are as bad as coons about getting into your stuff!

 

This place is a wonderful resource for the beginner or old hand alike. Take what you like and need and just leave the rest lying like a day old dog turd. We are one and all rugged individualists, that is a lot like being an asshole, so take a lot of what you read with a grain of sand. We each offer to you what we are SURE is the best way to do things…it is the best…for US. You on the other hand need to find YOUR way! Be an artist make it a pretty picture since iot is YOU that is going to have to live with it.

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"My daughter is going to either loosen up or get REAL skinny. She thinks anything that didn’t come out of a store is gross!..."

 

My wife is kinda this way, but just a little bit. In the case of my wife, its more of just being a Pu$$y about stuff. We were on our hike, i was looking off the trail at something off in the grass like 20yards out... she was all like.. No dont go out there! im all... why not ? i just wanna look at something. Apartently the night before there was a small deer herd that bed down in that spot i saw. But my wife was being too much of a Pu$$y to leave the trail. It kinda perturbed me she was being 'that way'.

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NavyVet,

Do not let that bother you. A lot of people are like that. However, most will come around in a time of crisis. My wife is the same way and really breaks down in a crisis situation, like when I had my first heart attack and then with my cancer. However, she learns to deal with it. What really worries her is that all of the "Good" clothing stores will be closed during a SHTF crisis and especially if it is long term. Some of that is my fault because her mother and I have spoiled her. I would not take anything for her, not even a Parrot.

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It's funny danm, I'm on the same road just a few mile back, it's hard when your the one everyone sees as the bulldozer to say" no that will hurt to much" fortunately I raised my replacement! Over the last few years my attitude toward survival has changed from "f'em let them come!" to "shhh.. let them go". My background is from the country, good ole' farmboy know how has me not to scared about me ...it the family I worried about I can pick food as I go and drink out of the creek without worry but they just haven't had that exposure to the risks in small amounts so that they can take it in larger ones without getting sick, had to explain this to my kids a few trips ago when I grabbed a good belly full of water from a spring fed river (good crisp yummy) but had to stop them with just a good mouthful so as they could get a little bit of the bugs and if they had a problem the car was a mile downriver and the hospital 1 1/2hrs no traffic no one got sick and next time maybe it will be the same if they have no other choice. I think for those new to the prepper, survivalist, doomday blah blah , whatever we are community it is about learning to think on the right lines, after you start thinking about lunch a week from now instead of just tomorrow it all starts to make sense. We here are a wealth of ideas and a fountain of BS. I for one have gleaned many useful things from here and heard some ridiculous ideas. If anything that I spewed out here has helped anyone I'm both pleased and amazed, and if anyone doesn't like it than I propose my wifes favorite toast to them " here's to you and here's to me....if every we disagree than screw you heres to me!"

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Abit of poetry here:

 

We all take part to make a picture of ART, it's life moments we tresure, one's life we try to measure. We all have a say, as to come what may. We will all surely die some day. I've said my peace you all have a good day. God Bless to one & all, remember lifes too short that's all.

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Danm,

nice post, Dan. Thank you for sharing it. Of course, what I think is FACT and what you think is just your opinion, unless you agree with me!:rolleyes: I often say, if you want 5 opinions, ask any 3 of us! We each have our ways, that mostly work for us. You are spot on, everyone must decide what is best for them and then be responsible for their own lives.

An excellent post, indeed.

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Danm..

After a life time of learning "Who and What' we are its amazing that we survivied this long!!

 

Have a wonderfull day..

 

This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!

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Guest survival101
"My daughter is going to either loosen up or get REAL skinny. She thinks anything that didn’t come out of a store is gross!..."

 

My wife is kinda this way, but just a little bit. In the case of my wife, its more of just being a Pu$$y about stuff. We were on our hike, i was looking off the trail at something off in the grass like 20yards out... she was all like.. No dont go out there! im all... why not ? i just wanna look at something. Apartently the night before there was a small deer herd that bed down in that spot i saw. But my wife was being too much of a Pu$$y to leave the trail. It kinda perturbed me she was being 'that way'.

 

Wow, I guess you're really a super Dad and Husband. What language to use against the ladies of the household. If you have a lady wife, and a lady daughter, you had a hand in that. If you wanted a woman and a woman daughter, you should have chosen one, and raised one. Please put your misogynistic tongue back in your head and act like a man.

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I was just stating a fact. She will ONLY eat hamburgers from ONE place and never homemade. Vegetables almost NEVER touch her lips except for mashed potatoes, rice and corn and she won't eat anything that comes out of the water. In the last couple of years she HAS decided that ribeye steaks are tolerable. Have you ever tried to find a rib eye steak out in the woods????? Dream on if you think she will eat squirrel, rabbit, venison, fish, duck, dove, quail, wild hogs, bugs, roots, onions, beans, peas or most anything out of the garden except SOME types of potatoes if there is NOTHING else available, and corn on the cob. She lives on ground meat, cheese,(tacos...meat and cheese only), Velveeta and shells, pizza (cheese and pepperoni only, and rice with butter on it... When the stores shelves go empty there is almost nothing in a can that she will eat and I just can't see killing a calf every few days for her. There aren't enough soda trees in this area to even keep her hydrated. Milk MUST only be 2% and NEVER even say powdered. White Sugar only never honey or brown sugar. I'm sort of a diabetic and there isn't much that I can eat that she will touch. I was DEAD serious, she will either change her ways or starve to DEATH if things go to crap and the grocery stores and fast food places close down for more than a week or two.

Edited by Danm

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Wow! Isn't that something? The government can do anything, lie about anything and no one takes them to task. But when we joke about our family the thought police show up and are offended by it.

 

IMHO if you are a veteran you have earned to say what you wish. Others should withhold their remarks if the remarks are not directed toward them.

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LOL, it didn't bother me a bit. I've been married to the same good woman for coming on 40 years and my daughter liked me well enough to move in next door to me so I can help raise my Grandbaby that she named after me. My little Danni Leigh is the light of my life. I stopped working for nearly a year to keep her from 6am to 5pm while my daughter and her spouse worked to catch up on the bills. Now she is going back to college and should graduate in December. I only keep Danni on Tuesdays and Thursdays and sometimes one night on the week end now. LOL I get along with my ladies awful well for a misogynist.

 

I learned a long time ago that a lot of people just want to tear others down and since I'm not a donkey whisperer I don't even try to change them. I don't back up at stating my opinion as you know Vis9 so I don't hold it against others when they express theirs. Hell I don't even hold it against them.

 

I'm not a misogynist by the way I'm just an old asshole! I like women a lot and in general they seem to like me pretty well too. I have more close female friends than I do male friends actually.

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Wow, I guess you're really a super Dad and Husband. What language to use against the ladies of the household. If you have a lady wife, and a lady daughter, you had a hand in that. If you wanted a woman and a woman daughter, you should have chosen one, and raised one. Please put your misogynistic tongue back in your head and act like a man.

 

GOod job survival101, again misreading my post. Im not a dad. I was quoting part of the original post by Danm, and then relating a story... Trying paying attention first, and not so quick to judge people.

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I just do not see what all of this name calling has to do with survival. If you do not like the post just pass and go on to another one. I can not see why people get so invested in some of the posts they read. In a survival situation a hot head can get you killed. Why make all of this stuff personal? We are all supposed to be adults on this forum. The moderators have enough to do without all of this.

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Guest survival101
I was just stating a fact. She will ONLY eat hamburgers from ONE place and never homemade. Vegetables almost NEVER touch her lips except for mashed potatoes, rice and corn and she won't eat anything that comes out of the water. In the last couple of years she HAS decided that ribeye steaks are tolerable. Have you ever tried to find a rib eye steak out in the woods????? Dream on if you think she will eat squirrel, rabbit, venison, fish, duck, dove, quail, wild hogs, bugs, roots, onions, beans, peas or most anything out of the garden except SOME types of potatoes if there is NOTHING else available, and corn on the cob. She lives on ground meat, cheese,(tacos...meat and cheese only), Velveeta and shells, pizza (cheese and pepperoni only, and rice with butter on it... When the stores shelves go empty there is almost nothing in a can that she will eat and I just can't see killing a calf every few days for her. There aren't enough soda trees in this area to even keep her hydrated. Milk MUST only be 2% and NEVER even say powdered. White Sugar only never honey or brown sugar. I'm sort of a diabetic and there isn't much that I can eat that she will touch. I was DEAD serious, she will either change her ways or starve to DEATH if things go to crap and the grocery stores and fast food places close down for more than a week or two.
My apologies Danm, that quote was picked up off of another's comments. Was not directed to you. I was a parent, once upon a time, and I know exactly of what you speak. :)

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Guest survival101

Navy? what was that you emailed me today? Everyone here has had enough of this. I did mean to point out you are not much of a man if you call your wife an unacceptable name because she's not performing up to your standards. I have nothing more to say to you. Your posts speak for themselves. Go on ahead brother man.

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VIS 9, I have a right to my opinion. And to put it here, unless I'm asked to move on. I've met some wonderful service men and women, and some who have illness to show for their trouble. Most of all deserve my respect, and the respect of our countrymen. But any who choose to make trouble, and use abusive language you think I should respect just on the basis that they served? I respect their service, but not their poor behavior. I'm sorry you don't think the same, but I respect you based on your postings, so I thank you for your input on this.

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VIS 9, I have a right to my opinion. And to put it here, unless I'm asked to move on. I've met some wonderful service men and women, and some who have illness to show for their trouble. Most of all deserve my respect, and the respect of our countrymen. But any who choose to make trouble, and use abusive language you think I should respect just on the basis that they served? I respect their service, but not their poor behavior. I'm sorry you don't think the same, but I respect you based on your postings, so I thank you for your input on this.

 

Survival101,

I am not expecting anyone to respect poor behavior or abusive language. My point was the name calling is not necessary. What you would think is poor behavior others may not. I have heard much worse and that coming from some of our country's leaders. The language may be harsh if used in mixed company but in strictly male environs, not so much. I agree that this being a mixed environment the language should be somewhat tempered. For a long time survival subjects, especially where some of us old timers are concerned, were usually a mostly male dominated. Sometimes I guess some forget themselves, especially when answering a post from another male. I am sure that the comment was not meant to offend.

 

Having said all of that, I just do not think that one should be so sensitive as to take offense at a statement made in a post. I have seen many thing in some of these posts which I do not care for. I just go past them and deal with the ones which interest me. One thing which 37 years of law enforcement has taught me is that I am not my brother's keeper. And that the more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.

 

You and I do think somewhat alike, however we react differently to the same stimulus. Thank you for your response. I hope you can at least understand where mine is coming from.

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Gentlemen:

 

 

If an empty truck full of eggs ran over and killed a dead cat, how many dogs could you fit in a bathtub?

 

(This is just as close to "on topic" as the stuff is getting to be in this thread.)

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WOW I missed the pissing contest Dang it.

 

OK whatever everyone is for I am against in principle but maybe not but then again I am not going

to make a positive or negative statement for either side but I could if I were paid well enough?

 

are there any offers? ... sold for 2 cents my opinion next time PM me I feel left out..

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Snake,

I'll give you more than two cents for your opinion any time because I know it is well worth it, but I have been told that we are off topic here. Maybe next time.

Edited by VIS 9

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vis 9 thanks for your confidence.

 

as far as the thread I do not look at survival as an art more like failure to quit my example:

 

if i cannot start a fire I have to find another way to keep warm if I cannot kill a deer then a

 

handful of berries or grass seed your always trying one way and another then another

 

quitting is not an option and success is only temporary.

 

skill well there again sometimes it is half accident as much as skill but knowledge is the key

 

and practice.

 

buy and carry a Swiss army EXPLORER knife and a quart stainless steel water bottle and a 100 foot

of para cord a first aid kit MAKE YOUR OWN. and a belt with some of the small survival tips stuff

many speak of especially the fishing stuff even in the desert this works I call it dry fishing, for snares

and snag lines and swivels make loops for small animals. a magnifying mirror many uses and small.

and a couple of compasses tab for zipper and a hand held fire starting magnesium bar and bic lighters

in your vehicle.

2 or more color wool blanket a poncho large military surplus a walking staff and a folding chair & shovel

 

for the novice learn to

make fire and practice at it a bow drill and a hand drill the kinds of wood that works best and area tinder.

learn to skin eviscerate and prepare game for cooking

build a figure 4 trap learn to make and the different ways to set a snare.

learn your area edible wildlife and edible plants and venomous or dangerous insects plants and critters.

learn to make a simple sling a spear and how to harden wood with heat a fish spear and throwing stick.

and a woomera

learn local animal tracks and what they eat and where they bed up.

how to find and get water.

how many different ways to keep warm or stay cool

how to make shelter from found natural elements

be able to from memory draw a map of your area towns and water and main roads make mental maps of direction to and distances from each of an area about 30 miles in all directions from your home.

lean and take first aid courses.

learn rope tying first a bowline and a truckers hitch {compound knot actually 4 knots in one}

make / use a small book like a zippered personal address / appointment book and print and write

or cut out new survival info things and pictures and save them in it.

as your knowledge grows your note book should grow.

learn to plat weave grass fronds bark local Indian methods make a hat or flip flops with it and a fish

basket / trap.

get some gourds and make a scoop a water cup and a water canteen and bird house

learn Morse sos and signaling codes and ways.

learn local minerals coal flint sulfur etc.

learn basic sewing stitches and crochet basic as these are the basis for repairs and making nets etc.

whittle a boomerang and a whistle and wood noise maker with your swiss army knife

And the hardest basic thing is to learn to throw a rock as large as a walnut and hit at 20 foot a orange size object fairly consistently {don't throw to hard you'll throw out your shoulder a smooth throw}

make some fish hooks out of bone

try to Knapp a arrow spear head from flint or obsidian type stone some shells work also like oyster and clam these are also good to scrape hides and cure with wood ash charcoal and clean with sand

again and again until it is leather some skins are thin and need to be dried and scuffed over a hard

wood limb with the bark on and a bit of sand.

learn pin & wedge to connect to pieces of wood helps to make ladders and wood tools and furniture.

 

 

these primitive skills and knowledge are the building blocks for more complicated and useful projects

net making making sails traps dead falls Malaya tiger trap etc animals are faster and more aware

we have to be more cunning and use tools to overcome our shortcomings.

 

most are easy and can be made with crap in your back yard

 

the bird house is how we caught birds at night cover the hole kill the bird and reset

 

everything else you can figure why I listed it.

 

necessity may be the mother of invention but survival is a mother all it's own we have come to a

point in creation where we think we are superior to any animal or task that is false teaching

man has been in a battle to the death with nature and beasts since the beginning.

and we are horrified now when we hear an animal has killed a human but that is natural

dying of old age is unnatural or being killed in a machine or by a machine we have taken war

and made it glorious it use to be a hands on affair for survival now it is an extension of diplomacy

and expansion of trade and commerce.

it is going to come full circle I am afraid and most are not ready and how could they it is not certain

if or when it could happen but it can that is all I know.

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Hi Danm,

 

Interesting verbiage, thanks for sharing.

 

I could not agree more that ADAPTABILITY is the most critical survival skill of all. Secondly, I'd say people skills/communication because in my opinion survival is a team sport and you need to get people on your team, negotiate, resolve conflicts, even threaten in some cases, etc.

 

No one has all the skills, I certainly don't but I can assemble, organize and direct a team of folks with skills I don't have. This will be my role during and after a SHTF situ. I don't intend on being a raider either unless it's a preemptive strike to shut down people trying to attack us.

 

Technical and medical people will be in huge demand and I'm a bit of both as they are related. I may be the go-to guy who organizes crews to get infrastructures, power and communications up and running again. Mr. Blackstart perhaps.

 

Wolfe

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I come from the kill them all let god sort them out school

 

we use diplomacy now how is that working for YA'

 

technical and medical without a hundred tests they cannot even tell if you have a cold

 

where is the power to run the x-ray and other machines what about O2 going to make it

 

police are resolving conflicts now and we have to house them once they "resolve" the conflict

 

in other words the same world we are in now you want to extend into TEOTWAWKI ?

 

how do you think we got here without the equipment and drugs with refrigeration testing equipment

 

surgical tools lots of clean water sanitation all you need is a hack saw and some dental floss

 

to remove the limb to the next joint think civil war not present day.

 

it takes 25 people to staff 1 fine surgeon over half need special skills and medications you need

an anesthetist you need surgical nurses a clean room good lighting and vacuum ability

a long surgery can use up a 72 CF tank of O2 I have ether and nitrous but that is not what doctors

use they have cocktails and equipment out the wazoo and still lose patients

 

you could get a ambulance and not have enough to handle more than a few major cases

I was an EMT guess what if you got a hole through your guts or lung your dead unless you have a doctor

and a huge pile of plasma / blood SS drugs recirculation or dialysis a pile of surgical tools

autoclave pressure cooker vacuum sealer to keep instruments sterile

 

logistically even now if there is a plane crash or freeway pileup in a out of the way area local hospitals

do not have the staff or the equipment handle it so ambulances from all regional hospitals will respond

triage to the best hospital for the trauma and hope they live to get there also life flight I think for

Houston Texas the 4th largest city in the U.S. and goes out 150 miles and we got 4

 

I have tried to tell people QUIT SMOKING THAT SH*T ANY AND I MEAN ANY failure in present services

will cripple any hospital a hospital has a constant flow of devices, equipment repair trade outs

hell at least once a week they have O2 brought in we are on a need it now ordering with little slack

without service drivers delivery people truckers to got it to hubs all this crap would fall flat on it's face.

 

IT IS VERY COMPLICATED and doctors may try to help but they will realize that they are a target for

being overwhelmed or snagged go ahead hang out your shingle during a crisis LMAO

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I come from the kill them all let god sort them out school

 

we use diplomacy now how is that working for YA'

 

technical and medical without a hundred tests they cannot even tell if you have a cold

 

where is the power to run the x-ray and other machines what about O2 going to make it

 

police are resolving conflicts now and we have to house them once they "resolve" the conflict

 

in other words the same world we are in now you want to extend into TEOTWAWKI ?

 

how do you think we got here without the equipment and drugs with refrigeration testing equipment

 

surgical tools lots of clean water sanitation all you need is a hack saw and some dental floss

 

to remove the limb to the next joint think civil war not present day.

 

it takes 25 people to staff 1 fine surgeon over half need special skills and medications you need

an anesthetist you need surgical nurses a clean room good lighting and vacuum ability

a long surgery can use up a 72 CF tank of O2 I have ether and nitrous but that is not what doctors

use they have cocktails and equipment out the wazoo and still lose patients

 

you could get a ambulance and not have enough to handle more than a few major cases

I was an EMT guess what if you got a hole through your guts or lung your dead unless you have a doctor

and a huge pile of plasma / blood SS drugs recirculation or dialysis a pile of surgical tools

autoclave pressure cooker vacuum sealer to keep instruments sterile

 

logistically even now if there is a plane crash or freeway pileup in a out of the way area local hospitals

do not have the staff or the equipment handle it so ambulances from all regional hospitals will respond

triage to the best hospital for the trauma and hope they live to get there also life flight I think for

Houston Texas the 4th largest city in the U.S. and goes out 150 miles and we got 4

 

I have tried to tell people QUIT SMOKING THAT SH*T ANY AND I MEAN ANY failure in present services

will cripple any hospital a hospital has a constant flow of devices, equipment repair trade outs

hell at least once a week they have O2 brought in we are on a need it now ordering with little slack

without service drivers delivery people truckers to got it to hubs all this crap would fall flat on it's face.

 

IT IS VERY COMPLICATED and doctors may try to help but they will realize that they are a target for

being overwhelmed or snagged go ahead hang out your shingle during a crisis LMAO

 

Snake, do you realize that in your preferred world of dog eat dog you will no longer have the internet to pontificate LOL?

 

Just sayin' man.

 

Wolfe

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