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Crisis in Europe

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Today at the 17 of may all of Norway are eating ice cream and hotdogs, holding our flag high at the national day. Thankfull fore living in a free and democratic contry outside the european union!

At the moment politicians in Europe are telling people not to worry about what is happening in Greece. Greeece are only weeks from default and will get thrown out of the European union When this happen. Politicians say the Greek economi is so small (2% of EUs BMP) that it wont be a poblem to the rest of Europe. They speak against bether knowledge(they lie) Very soon the Greek state economi will plunge and bank run will make the problems contagin to the rest of southern Europe!

The economi of Greece is small, but it is not so whit the economi of Spain and Italy, both of them have big economies Which wil have huge impackt on the rest of Europe when they fail!

They also have unemployment in the middle tventies, soaring interests on their far to big debt. Negative growth and a extreem togh austerity program forced on them by the EU.

 

Ranger

Edited by Ranger

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Thank's Ranger for the infomation as to whats going on in your part of the world. I trust the news as to what the general public are saying about their own country, than what the NEWS MEDIA are saying which theirs is BS from time to time.

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An old Chinese curse says; May you live in interesting times.....

 

I think those times are here!

It looks like a bank run may have started in Spain; As customers withdrew moore than a bilion Euros during one working day from the bank "Bankia" The bank stocks fell by 19% as soon as the news got out.

The bank is a construktion of seven medium sized banks in dire straits that was emerged in to one big in 2010. To the big surprise fore the bankers, the bad loans did not go away when they put them all together.

The bank was nationalized short time ago.The Spanish state took 45% shares as colateral for loans to the crise struck bank. The stocks has droped down 60% in total this year.....

This bank is big in Spain, If u imagine Wall Street Journal writing a story on customers whitdraw several biliones US$ from Citibank during one day u get the picture!

 

Ranger

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To Xplorer; The impact wil come later, a lot of thing is happening this days.

BIG housing bubble in China

Unsustainable debt in the US

Economic crisis in Europe

Join in fore the joy ride.....

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I am pleased to say that Poland did not get into the EU and their economy is still going along just fine. In 1990 the U.S. dollar was equal to 18 of theirs. This was just after the Communists were thrown out of office. Now the U.S. dollar is worth 3.5 of theirs. Their economy got better and the U.S. economy got worse. Poland made a lot of hard choices and austerity plans in order to improve their economy.

 

The great state of Texas has also done a lot of things to improve their economy but the U.S. still can not seem to get it together.

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I would encourage everyone to read "Aftershock". The authors explain in clear terms how the various bubbles were created, how they are interlinked and what is still to come:

1. the dollar collapse

2. the WORLDWIDE debt bubble

 

the most important part is that they give information what happens economically during each stage and what individuals can do to protect themselves.

 

IMHO, the Euro will survive, but split into two: the strong northern part and the weak southern.

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As far as I am concerned we should secede from the U.S. then Texas can keep our money instead

of the gov spreading our money to states that do not want to get along LIKE KOMIFORNIA

 

we have coal, oil, gas and deep water ports and refineries colleges and 4 season farming and ranching

everything the green folks hate {self sufficiency}

 

and we can lock down our border and charge a thru toll for trucks and impose a real safety check

so illegal trucks will not endanger our citizens and make our own INS rules.

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As far as I am concerned we should secede from the U.S. then Texas can keep our money instead

of the gov spreading our money to states that do not want to get along LIKE KOMIFORNIA

 

we have coal, oil, gas and deep water ports and refineries colleges and 4 season farming and ranching

everything the green folks hate {self sufficiency}

 

and we can lock down our border and charge a thru toll for trucks and impose a real safety check

so illegal trucks will not endanger our citizens and make our own INS rules.

 

That has to be one of the most BRILLIANT moments in Texan politics of all time...Maintaining the right to seceded. If texas did this before the collapse, it would probably be the nail in the coffin. If they did it after, then secedeing wouldnt matter, except to the recovery of the greater whole. Either way, Texas should be able to thrive. The military itself however would probably be a mess, something along the lines of being declared 'deserters' by the coughCough "United States". THe state can leave, but the military belongs to the US, unless im missing something.

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That has to be one of the most BRILLIANT moments in Texan politics of all time...Maintaining the right to seceded. If texas did this before the collapse, it would probably be the nail in the coffin. If they did it after, then secedeing wouldnt matter, except to the recovery of the greater whole. Either way, Texas should be able to thrive. The military itself however would probably be a mess, something along the lines of being declared 'deserters' by the coughCough "United States". THe state can leave, but the military belongs to the US, unless im missing something.

 

NavyVet_77,

You know Texas may be able to secede just like the owner of Face Book renounced his citizenship. They would probably let Texans leave the Union but they would have to leave all of their wealth in a Government bank. This day and age, it'll never happen.

 

I hope DevilDog approves of this post as I tried to stay on topic.

Edited by VIS 9

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I read this today!!

GOLDEN DAWN..

 

Golden Dawn gained from both a protest vote from people angered by increasing hardship ensuing from austerity measures imposed in return for billions of euros in international rescue loans, and from a backlash against an illegal immigration problem that has spiraled out of control.

 

"People say they are trouble, they might hit people and do other things, but there are some people that were helped by Golden Dawn," said Athens resident Mattheos, who would not give his surname. "They are not right about everything, about land mines on the border, but they are right about one thing — immigration."

 

Golden Dawn campaigned on an anti-immigration platform, promising to expel all illegal immigrants and clean up crime-ridden neighborhoods, while also delivering care packages of food and clothing to needy Greeks. It also advocated planting land mines along Greece's border with Turkey to stop any more illegal immigrants entering the country.

 

While rejecting the neo-Nazi label, some of its members have openly admired some of Hitler's policies, saying he worked to better the lot of his people. Party leader Nikolaos Michaloliakos caused a backlash in Greece earlier in the week when he claimed Nazi concentration camps did not use ovens and gas chambers to kill prisoners during the Holocaust.

 

Its members have also been blamed for violent racist attacks in the center of Athens and elsewhere.

 

 

LOOKS like somebody is NOT so Happy!!!

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I read this today!!

GOLDEN DAWN..

 

Golden Dawn gained from both a protest vote from people angered by increasing hardship ensuing from austerity measures imposed in return for billions of euros in international rescue loans, and from a backlash against an illegal immigration problem that has spiraled out of control.

 

"People say they are trouble, they might hit people and do other things, but there are some people that were helped by Golden Dawn," said Athens resident Mattheos, who would not give his surname. "They are not right about everything, about land mines on the border, but they are right about one thing — immigration."

 

Golden Dawn campaigned on an anti-immigration platform, promising to expel all illegal immigrants and clean up crime-ridden neighborhoods, while also delivering care packages of food and clothing to needy Greeks. It also advocated planting land mines along Greece's border with Turkey to stop any more illegal immigrants entering the country.

 

While rejecting the neo-Nazi label, some of its members have openly admired some of Hitler's policies, saying he worked to better the lot of his people. Party leader Nikolaos Michaloliakos caused a backlash in Greece earlier in the week when he claimed Nazi concentration camps did not use ovens and gas chambers to kill prisoners during the Holocaust.

 

Its members have also been blamed for violent racist attacks in the center of Athens and elsewhere.

 

 

LOOKS like somebody is NOT so Happy!!!

 

I'm here in Europe, been to Greece on business a number of times. I've traveled widely to over 65 countries and without exception meet good and decent folks everywhere including Africa and the ME. That said people are tribal and prefer their own tribe and ways. One cannot expect a sudden large input of people from a vastly different incompatible culture to get along with the indigenous population. Just ask a native American.

 

One thing for certain is that in every Western European country over the last 30 years their government has allowed a MASSIVE flood of legal and illegal immigrants to invade, which has wreaked complete havoc on the social fabric of every country from the north of Sweden to the south of Greece. I see massive populations of foreign folks living here in what can best be describe as parallel societies; many of these newcomers and especially their children have little respect or thought for the indigenous population and nothing in common with them, a recipe for disaster to be sure.

 

Since the European governments have failed to address the problem in a responsible way or even at all, with "reasonable limits" on immigration the indigenous people now turn to other groups like Golden Dawn who will deal directly with the issue.

 

Sad but the truth is never popular.

 

Wolfe

Edited by Dangerwolfe

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Ranger

 

well we are in the same boat as you in Europe if you go we go if we go you go think of it like

a mountain climb about to go bad each country needs to see how it can succeed and flourish

with out the others it could be hard but if we are all connected we will all hit bottom

hard enough we wont survive.

 

If some of us have the will and try to strike out on our own we can connect later with those

that have survived by not stringing along.

and kick start it over again.

 

The Swiss are a good example during the war WWII they were not in great shape but better

than those that went along for the ride.

we all need to look even to an individual degree what we can do to restart {after the purge}

because there will be no money no retirement or security for some years so we will have to

use our talents to make a living or stock up now to trade later until we can find our niche

or have enough to trade for a family or personal business.

 

I have a few ways to make out a corn sheller grain mill plenty of seed and a fair amount of trade

stock I have a hand water pump and well pipe and hand tools to make a well near a previous one

and rework the old one.

some skills and hand tools and equipment to sell rent trade for services.

The way I have arranged my world it is like a small farm I have enough duplication and excess on location

to almost rebuild it over again.

 

In short regardless of where you are you need to have enough to be independent for a while and or

start a business things people are going to need, using basic or easy found components.

and having the tools to do it.

 

We cannot care about governments they are beyond our power to control

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Spain's wealthiest autonomous region, Catalonia, needs a bailout from the central government because it is running out of options for refinancing debt, warns Catalan President Artur Mas.

 

Refinancing needs of Spanish regions in 2012

Spanish region Refinancing needs in 2012

 

Catalonia €13,476.00m

Valencia €8,119.68m

Madrid €2,693.92m

Andalucia €2,440.30m

Castilla-La Mancha €2,336.96m

La Rioja €1,970.48m

Murcia €797.72m

Balearics €789.69m

Canarias €744.66m

Galacia €628.6m

Castilla Leon €549.27m

Extremadura €342.59m

Aragon €253.00m

Basque Country €216.20m

Asturias €176.9m

Cantabria €99.90m

Navarra €91.20m

Total €35,727.07m

 

 

 

Less than 36 bilion Euros, does no look that bad, or does it?

I mean, this is the debt all the regions in S(pain) has to role over this year, and Spain is a big contry.

Well first of all this is official numbers, and i dont trust them. Spanish acount books are like storybooks, nice and kozy but the carackters inside the book does not really exist or are bay far over or underestimated.

But let us take their word fore it fore now and go to the next issue.

Spain is in resechion and have been there fore a long time, the economi is suposed to be contrackting by moore than 1,5% this year, unemploiment of more than 23%(again official numbers. Last year they started calculating unemploiment in a new way and unemploimentrate contracted by 5%) so lets be honest and set unemploiment to 28%!

This is at the moment a roler coaster ride, but will soon go down the water slide (and that only goes down)

 

Annyone who can spare a life jacket fore the spanyards......? Annyone...

 

Ranger

Edited by Ranger

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I realy like your thinking Snake, in a few years computerskills and the wisdom of trading whit money that dont realy exist may not be of much iterest any longer. I am not an expert on any field but i have allways been curious about everything as i think u are as wel!

Having the ability to think solution orientated and the gift of hands whit no more than one thumb on eatch:rolleyes:

Yes i do have a little military skills but my most valuable asset when going gets togh; i am a potato ( can be used fore everyting) and i allso do not loose my head (until later).

So when i climb the ladder i may reach your level one day....

 

Ranger

 

l

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The clock is ticking fore the economi in Europe.....

 

The shares of the spanish bank "Bankia" vent further down 28% today as the spanish government agreed to a 23,5 billion Euro bailout for the bank. At the same time spanish yield on ten year bonds hit a new record at 6,5%,

Spain has to look to the EU for funding the Bankia bail out as they dont have the money to do so themselfe. Whit more than one milion unsold new homes after the housing bubble bursted in 2008, mostly ownd by the banks (taken as collateral from busted building companies) and whit prizes suposed to drop further 20%, the losses can be 300 billions higher for the spanish banks.

The european canser is spreading and the cure is at large.

Tik-tak tik-tak

 

Ranger

Edited by Ranger

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I watched some program it was an interview with a greek gentleman he said since austerity

 

hje was making 3500 now he is making 1700 that is what many in the U.S. can't understand because

 

austerity is not an american event YET our system operates by inflation food and basic items get

 

more expensive and our dollar does not buy as much also the packaging gets smaller but the price stays

 

the same,

 

we even have people who are so disconnected that they actually think we do not have inflation

 

because the government said so ? well in 2 years canned tuna fish has gone from 43 cents to 79 cents

 

a can 3 cans for a dollar to 4 cans for 2 dollars and that is on sale.

 

flour rice sugar is up 30+ percent in 2 years and now we see ti moving into all snack foods that use

 

sugar and oil as cooking oil prices have risen pinto beans were 33 to 44 cents a pound now 88 is standard

 

price some prices are not changing but I fear when they do it will be drastic and others will follow.

 

gas is 3.50 and it was 2.50 after the Rita hurricane and almost got to 3 bucks now people think 3.50

 

is good Americans have the worst memories I think Alzheimer's is in a contagious state here.

 

We are all in the same boat and our news is failing us we are being all told different stories

 

{ I think that is organized by the G-20 and G-8 meetings if we all get different information and

 

our economies treat and use different wordings I guess they figure none of us will catch on before

 

the trap slams shut.

 

I know they are all in on it as world interest rates were all running close for quite a while now we see

 

spain greece and portugal interest rats jump as well as austerity so they are getting it from both ends.

 

it is very bad and too many Americans are not monetary hawks if it were better explained without

 

all the smoke and mirrors and spin they would quickly see how bad it really is.

 

the show down will be when all social security and welfare checks are cut in half then the explosion of

 

crime and destitute people will break that hypnotic spell people are under and the really horrible part

 

We have food pantries that give food to low income families these will collapse because charity giving

 

falls in financially troubled times and that is when we need it most and many food banks will close

 

or have to cut each persons ration to fill the increasing numbers of needy asking for help.

 

 

in that moment I believe that panic buying and run on banks and people pulling out all their money

 

and holding cash the banks will come under pressure or close and our government is out of bullets

 

not enough reserve all they can do is try to print money to float the economy but that will drive down

 

the value of our money in days instead of weeks or months when they see gas go up 1 to 2 dollars

 

in one night then their azz will slam shut and fear and stress will start killing people and then TSWHTF.

 

but I don't think about it LMAO.

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"...because the government said so ? well in 2 years canned tuna fish has gone from 43 cents to 79 cents "

In the greater Detroit area (Troy,Pontiac,Warren etc.) canned tuna is ON SALE if its less than $1.10

 

I just went to Kroger today, and have a 'discount card'

Paid 1.39 for 1 head of Romaine lettuce

$6 for Half pound Colby Jack cheese. (Kroger brand)

$1.59 1 loaf, White bread

$1.50 Coke 2-liter (on sale 2 for $3)

 

Just to name a few pricetag atrocities.

 

Current gas IN detroit is averaging $3.89, in the suburbs its closer to $3.69

 

Getting all the stuff up to the apartment and not being seen with grovery bags is another matter. My wife and I never buy more than we can carry up in 1 trip. or else we risk having the car broken into or jumped on the 2nd trip to from the car.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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The clock is ticking fore the economi in Europe.....

 

The shares of the spanish bank "Bankia" vent further down 28% today as the spanish government agreed to a 23,5 billion Euro bailout for the bank........Ranger

 

They have many issues to resolve over there.

 

Greece will be a big problem and that is why they have not allowed them to default.

 

Big issue is the number of people who have retired in Greece and large number of Spanish Banks that made mortgage loan in Greece.

 

When Greece gets out of Euro and Drachma (sp) is brought back it will be a big time devalued value. So the people in Greece who have Drachma to repay debt still based in Euros are F*cked

 

What do these Banks do? They have borrowers with 1/10th the income when converted over to Euros and the only way to make it affordable is to take a loss on the note. If you made a Greek Bank buy these loans it would not be for par value either, so I dont see any exit for them at all other than big losses which is why the stocks are falling and conversly US stocks look good b/c they are a "flight to quality" right now.

 

That is boring stuff but it will be the discretionary income of the consumers and its impact on the Spanish Banks that really brings down the house. The government debt part will not be that bad of a hit - b/c like you said, they are not a big government.

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