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Dangerwolfe

Fusil Arbaléte....the day wrecker

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Hi Folks,

 

Here in France handguns, battle rifles, etc are restricted but possible to get to a limited extent by joining a gun club. I'll cover that in another thread.

 

In any case, in a SHTF situ I can always "collect" a firearm from an attacker if I strike first. I'm considering the Fusil Arbaléte or rifle crossbow. This model is very light weight and foldable. Can also be used for hunting.

 

http://www.couteau-store.com/PBSCProduct.asp?ItmID=9671288

 

Biggest disadvantages to a fire arm is you have one shot at a time and limited range, and poor stopping power; of course I'd prefer a Kalashnikov with a scope. Now for the advantages particularly at night:

 

No muzzle flash

Silent

will penetrate certain body armor at closer range

arrows can be dipped in shit or poison or even coated burning pitch for a fun surprise

ammunition can be readily fabricated

 

Let me know what you all think.

 

Wolfe

Edited by Dangerwolfe

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The crossbow is an excellent alternative to a firearm, given the legal limitations you face there. Short of a steel plate, a crossbow will penetrate ANY soft body armor within it's effective range. You can carry it ready to fire, and it can be fired from the prone position (or behind a barricade/cover). The limitations of a crossbow are a very slow rate of fire, and it has a wide/horizontal cross-section when deployed and ready to fire (which makes certain maneuvers more difficult). I wouldn't bother with coating the bolts with anything, a proper broadhead tip will kill just as quickly, and won't poison you if you scratch yourself during a reload. For effective 'flaming ammo', you'll need to use an overlength bolt (+2.5cm or so longer than normal). Wrap your flammable payload behind the tip, in the space where it sticks out in front of the crossbow prod. You will need a very sticky, very flammable material (roofing tar that has been rolled in magnesium flakes/powder works well, with a gauze wrap). Ordinary gasoline/etc will not stay lit when the bolt is launched. Those are only useful if you want to set fire to something from a distance, or as a signal flare. You are better off just loading broadheads and killing whatever you hit.

 

Are compound bows as available in France? A modern compound bow hits just as hard as a crossbow, but can be fired 2-3 times as fast. It cannot be fired from the prone, but it has a narrow/vertical cross section that makes it well suited to firing from behind a tree/doorway/etc. With a high let-off cam, you can move with a compound bow drawn and ready to fire, though not as easily as a crossbow. Crossbow bolts are shorter and a little easier to carry than arrows for the bow, but it is unlikely that you will be carrying so many that its a problem.

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Ok so I have a question for survivalcyclist..where did you learn about "FLAMING"arrows??

LMAO..

are they effect on the gators??

 

LOL, I was in the SCA for 20+ years, and medieval warfare was/is a major area of study for me. I've got lots of real world experience with low tech weaponry, and most of it is easily adaptable to modern gear. I've made and used everything from knives to polearms, gambesons to full plate armor, crossbows to trebuchets. (I've also burned down a work shed of mine, experimenting with Greek Fire, but that's another whole thread, ha!) I once owned a 3 inch Mountain Howitzer, too, because a friend of mine was a Civil War Reenactor. We had to build our own carriage for it, but it was a lot of fun. We fired Coke cans filled with concrete (though only when we were out having fun on the range, never during an actual reenactment). Best 6 thousand bucks I ever wasted, boy howdy.

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The crossbow is an excellent alternative to a firearm, given the legal limitations you face there. Short of a steel plate, a crossbow will penetrate ANY soft body armor within it's effective range. You can carry it ready to fire, and it can be fired from the prone position (or behind a barricade/cover). The limitations of a crossbow are a very slow rate of fire, and it has a wide/horizontal cross-section when deployed and ready to fire (which makes certain maneuvers more difficult). I wouldn't bother with coating the bolts with anything, a proper broadhead tip will kill just as quickly, and won't poison you if you scratch yourself during a reload. For effective 'flaming ammo', you'll need to use an overlength bolt (+2.5cm or so longer than normal). Wrap your flammable payload behind the tip, in the space where it sticks out in front of the crossbow prod. You will need a very sticky, very flammable material (roofing tar that has been rolled in magnesium flakes/powder works well, with a gauze wrap). Ordinary gasoline/etc will not stay lit when the bolt is launched. Those are only useful if you want to set fire to something from a distance, or as a signal flare. You are better off just loading broadheads and killing whatever you hit.

 

Are compound bows as available in France? A modern compound bow hits just as hard as a crossbow, but can be fired 2-3 times as fast. It cannot be fired from the prone, but it has a narrow/vertical cross section that makes it well suited to firing from behind a tree/doorway/etc. With a high let-off cam, you can move with a compound bow drawn and ready to fire, though not as easily as a crossbow. Crossbow bolts are shorter and a little easier to carry than arrows for the bow, but it is unlikely that you will be carrying so many that its a problem.

 

Hi from Oslo SS, sorry for the late reply. Yes, compound bows are indeed available in France (even handguns but you need to belong to a club which I'm looking into). Thanks for the suggestions. I will probably stick to the crossbow idea for the reasons you mentioned. I'm considering two of this same model. The crossbow is only a stopgap solution until I can get a regular assault rifle but also I believe a "nice to have" in certain circumstances such as at night or where you really need to maintain silence. A good crossbow can be deadly and very accurate up to 50 yards. However, I would like to "try before I buy" if I can. I real like the lightweight foldable model i chose but I need to insure it's not made in china, etc.

 

Wolfe

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Been studying up on crossbows and how to get the max killing power and effectivity out of them and what kind of broad heads do the most damage. One of our newer member suggested that he would use a crossbow with night vision capability for close in stuff.....good idea!

 

So, just did a bit of research and found this thread on what to buy and how to rig it with links to the actual scope to use:

 

http://www.opticsplanet.com/msgboard/about44-11877.html

 

Here's a demo of what a single broad head arrow can do to something human sized. Personally, I'd have preferred to just photo that beautiful mountain lion...he's just a sitting duck treed by those hounds anyway....I would have walked away and let him be.

 

 

Now these shots are a bit trickier:

 

 

Wolfe

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Im a Bow Hunter for over 25 years..I like it very much and am considering a Cross bow!

 

BUT PLEASE DONT SHOOT something your NOT GOING TO EAT!!!!!!!!

Leave the Cats alone..PLEASE!!

Sorry just my hang up on OUR Mountain Kittys!!

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Im a Bow Hunter for over 25 years..I like it very much and am considering a Cross bow!

 

BUT PLEASE DONT SHOOT something your NOT GOING TO EAT!!!!!!!!

Leave the Cats alone..PLEASE!!

Sorry just my hang up on OUR Mountain Kittys!!

 

Hi Matt,

 

I fully agree with you. Fellow predators like big cats, bears, wolves, eagles and the like are not something I'd ever shoot except to save myself or someone else, or in an SHTF situ to get their resources.

 

Will eat whatever I kill in any case....tweety bird hunting with a twelve gage excepted....lol!

 

Wolfe

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crossbows are slow and stupid one person or a very small group and how many arrows / bolts

 

the power of a cross bow is such that if the bolt is not sufficient it will kill or maim the shooter.

 

so you have to find water purify it find food grow food weed and cultivate 4 seasons of food

 

save seeds and make arrows as well as crossbows oh that's right your going to buy one now.

 

are only 10 dollars each.

 

and does anyone know the replacement for these ? there ain't one carbon fiber is the strongest

 

most durable and lightest invention in the last century and you cannot make it in your back yard.

 

not to mention trying to make a natural replacement would be difficult as the increased speed of

 

cams and materials overcome most natural sources and special knowledge to make natural bolts

 

is not spoken of in here and if you make a small mistake or the grain is wrong your dead or a cripple

 

but hey do not let common sense get in the way and a recurve bow without a forearm guard will

 

peal the hide and roll it around the string from your elbow to the wrist.

 

so yall have fun now you hear.

 

In all these threads I find no mention of the dangers or engineering of proper use of safety equipment

 

or common dangers of primitive weapons or in making them has every one forgot tetanus it may not hurt

 

you but most of us have been inoculated what about your kids? if you teach them a rusty point or

 

a sliver will put them in a grave in hard times if they have not had their shots they are not protected.

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crossbows are slow and stupid...

 

the power of a cross bow is such that if the bolt is not sufficient it will kill or maim the shooter....

 

you cannot make it in your back yard...

 

not to mention trying to make a natural replacement would be difficult...

 

In all these threads I find no mention of the dangers or engineering of proper use of safety equipment

or common dangers of primitive weapons or in making them has every one forgot tetanus it may not hurt

you but most of us have been inoculated what about your kids? if you teach them a rusty point or

a sliver will put them in a grave in hard times if they have not had their shots they are not protected.

 

Sometimes you have great advice, snake, other times it seems like you drop a couple of hits of acid, smoke a bowl of dope and then start typing. Today it sounds like you're stoned.

 

Crossbows are slow and stupid...compared to what, a firearm? Well, yes, snake they are slower than a firearm, thats one of the reasons they invented firearms. Stupid? No, not really. For about a hundred years they were the deadliest missile weapon on the battlefield - so deadly that the Pope threatened to Excommunicate anyone who used them against Christian troops. Modern crossbows can kill grizzly bears, and easily kill a human.

 

If you use the wrong ammo for your crossbow, the bolt can splinter...just like an arrow with too little spline can shatter on any bow..or using the wrong ammo in any fire arm (like hand loaded ammo, for example, or +P+ ammo in a pistol not rated for it).

 

Nope, you cannot make a modern high-tech crossbow in your back yard. But then again, you cannot make a modern firearm in your backyard either. I can make a medieval crossbow in my garage, though. Been there, done that, actually. So have lots of other people, just like making a bow can be done in your garage workshop.

 

That covers making replacements for them, too, I suppose. You cannot make a natural replacement for your modern firearm, either, can you?

 

You definitely should teach your kids about using ANY wepaon, modern, primitive, improvised - ANY weapon. Because ANY weapon can kill or injure (that's why they're called 'weapons' snake, instead of say 'stuffed animals' or 'chicken casserole').

 

If you read the original post, the guy said "I cannot get my hands on any firearms here where I live - it's too expensive, and its very difficult to get them legally." So he plans to use the next most lethal missile weapon he can legally get his hands on - a crossbow.

 

And your post comes along to tell him...what? That he ought to buy a firearm anyway, because they are safer to operate, easier to improvise ammo for, easier to fabricate from scratch, and less likely to kill one of his kids if they mishandle it? (ROFLMAO) Are you high?

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Ok we get it..LMAO..

 

Dangerwolf..

"I fully agree with you. Fellow predators like big cats, bears, wolves, eagles and the like are not something I'd ever shoot except to save myself or someone else, or in an SHTF situ to get their resources."

I have never taken down a bear,but have had the meat!!Stringey...

 

On the East coast Big Cats were hunted for just thier skins...they were hunted untill they became almost Extinct !!They are coming back slowley...

 

Oh and yes its a good time to think about crossbows!!!Im not geting younger.lol

 

 

For $20 buck and $14.for some small bolts..this MAY BE the Ticket..It would fit in my Alice pack ..LOL

 

http://budk.com/Outdoor-Sports/Pistol-Grip-Crossbow

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Dangerwolfe, here is something you might want to consider. I made 2 of them a couple years back, when i watched this video clip. It's called a SLING BOW.

 

Edited by P210SIG

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I think your were right survivalcyclist

 

I was being to blunt but I would rather see a person have and use a recurve bow versus a crossbow

for speed and the killing power of either a bow or crossbow have more energy than many rifles and pistols

because of the weight of the projectile.

 

I only would have a crossbow in big dangerous game country I am a fan of Fred Bear when I was a young he was the head man of archery.

 

so I am very experienced in bow hunting and have used the Barnett self cocking years ago

but for americans it is a non starter except in the quiet taking of medium to large game.

 

those who have no choices need to rely on a recurve and razor points for antipersonnel

and specialty points for hunting small game.

 

A recurve is very fast compared to a crossbow and can be used to encounter multiple targets

with practice and it must be a rigorous training to be a sure quick and accurate.

wrist rocket sling shots or catapults are better for being able to act on multiple targets

you can enhance your ammo to inflict more painful injuries.

slings can perform well due to their ability to propel very heavy projectiles accurately.

spears are for use against any unarmed person as a fending stabbing weapon never throw a spear

unless you have another and a fighting spear has a heavy point and a spike on the other end.

machete / short sword is a good backup weapon to a spear.

 

might be better to take a lesson from the Israelite of old, a sling a short sword and a spear.

Add a bow and quiver and your as set as most in an area without weapons

 

my last argument is to go black powder it is legal in france and has the least requirements

get a bullet mold and make a bucket of shot / balls and have enough powder and caps

to survive with a pair of single shots are better than primitive weapons.

22 is legal but a restriction on ammo as 1000 per year or something like that.

maybe a foreigner may not have weapons of that I am not sure.

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Dangerwolfe, here is something you might want to consider. I made 2 of them a couple years back, when i watched this video clip. It's called a SLING BOW.

 

made one of those couple yrs ago playing around, didnt have that much power maybe should consider working on that again.

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SC

 

seems that im starting to see more and more people here who have or are still in the SCA, I learned my bowmaking skills in it and some of the tools i use are a part of my bob.

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Thanks for all the advice gents, including you Snake. For a guy who intends on holing up and going it alone you seem pretty social, :P

 

Firearms replaced bows long ago because obviously they make better weapons. But this is the deal, in France I can get some bolt-action stuff or single shot shot guns and even black powder pistols, even real semi-auto handguns.....but all require registration, licenses and/or belonging to a club where the decision to let you take the thing home takes 6 months or more and is heavily subject to politics.

 

On the plus side there will not be too many people walking around my area with significant firearms right after a major SHFT, the guns will eventually filter in but it's going to take a while. Rouge cops and military will be the biggest threat and the best armed but that is why I'm buddying up a bit with the local gendarmerie as a matter of strategy.

 

Therefore, a shotgun, bolt action 22 or long rifleman would be sufficient for a while....so would a crossbow, especially with regards to hunting, but also defense as a supplementary, reserve weapon or used in an ambush, etc.

 

The advantages of crossbows have already been mentioned, and with regards to hunting at closer ranges under 50 yards, very comparable to firearms. Serviceable crossbows can also be had for 1/3 the price of a 22 or black powder revolver.

 

Any arsenal should have a variety of weapon types and I think a crossbow easily qualifies...

 

Wolfe

Edited by Dangerwolfe

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So wHAT BECAME OF THIS?

Did you get one?

 

Hi UW,

 

Actually, have not ordered one yet but I will, just been busy with other projects.....trying to spread out my spending a bit.

 

Again, I see the crossbow an excellent hunting tool and a good "supplementary" night time weapon, but not primary defense.

 

Perhaps you guys have seen these lumenochs, not really a survival tool but handy to track your bolts/arrow in flight and find them later if you miss:

 

 

 

France has lots of HUGE wild boar, lynx, deer, wild horses, bears, wolves, and most of the big game similar to you'd expect to find in North America....however, I'd expect anything bigger than a rabbit here or in the US to go extinct pretty quick with millions of new hunters suddenly out there after a major SHTF....

 

 

Yes JCMS, I've seen many vids on making crossbows, it's more a question of time, I'm on the road constantly, today Brussels, next week Moscow, then UK....

 

 

 

Wolfe

Edited by Dangerwolfe

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crossbows are slow and stupid one person or a very small group and how many arrows / bolts

 

the power of a cross bow is such that if the bolt is not sufficient it will kill or maim the shooter.

 

so you have to find water purify it find food grow food weed and cultivate 4 seasons of food

 

save seeds and make arrows as well as crossbows oh that's right your going to buy one now.

 

are only 10 dollars each.

 

and does anyone know the replacement for these ? there ain't one carbon fiber is the strongest

 

most durable and lightest invention in the last century and you cannot make it in your back yard.

 

not to mention trying to make a natural replacement would be difficult as the increased speed of

 

cams and materials overcome most natural sources and special knowledge to make natural bolts

 

is not spoken of in here and if you make a small mistake or the grain is wrong your dead or a cripple

 

but hey do not let common sense get in the way and a recurve bow without a forearm guard will

 

peal the hide and roll it around the string from your elbow to the wrist.

 

so yall have fun now you hear.

 

In all these threads I find no mention of the dangers or engineering of proper use of safety equipment

 

or common dangers of primitive weapons or in making them has every one forgot tetanus it may not hurt

 

you but most of us have been inoculated what about your kids? if you teach them a rusty point or

 

a sliver will put them in a grave in hard times if they have not had their shots they are not protected.

 

Somebody who's a Nam vet wanna tell Snake about the 'Yards and their lil bitty crossbows? OH by the way,emergancy brake cable,motorcycle brake or throtle cables all make good bowstrings in a pinch

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the montagnards of vietnam fought on the side of the USA they used crossbows to great affect...you can see them in the john wayne movie "the green berets"...many migrated to north and south carolina after the war...the ones we could get out that is many were left behind...

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As far as the kitty kats, bears and wolves I will leave them alone as long as they leave me alone but I don't debate my place in the food chain with anything more than once. Gators used to be pretty good neighbors but too many people started feeding and messing with them and they are getting more aggressive towards people in places other than Texas and Louisiana. We eat them and so they are still pretty polite here. The cats in LA and such are pushing it. When one eats a kid on a school yard or in their back yard they will suddenly become a lot less cuddly and lovable.

 

Crossbows are FAR superior to recurves or even compound bows when you are talking about someone using one that isn't a hunter or archery practitioner Snake. They were not invented and used because they were better than the long bows. They were great because you could take a serf that had never shot a bow in his life and he was deadly almost immediately where the learning curve AND physical buildup required to shoot a long bow is long and iffy. I have a cousin that I don't think will ever be able to hit a bale of hay at 40 yards.

 

I agree that the recurve is a way better weapon IN THE HANDS OF AN EXPERIENCED ARCHER. The thing is a lot of people that are not going to hunt and are not able to practice a lot still want and need a weapon that will safely alow them to stay here and shoot you over THERE! Not everyone lives in Texas where guns are cheap and legal and you can go out and practice nearly anywhere. In those cases a cross bow is just as good as it ever was and will do the deed. Use it to get a better weapon...kinda like those Liberator pistols we had to drop into France the last time somebody disarmed the French people and started killing them.

 

A crossbow will get you a free assault weapon later if you are patient and sneaky. I'll do the same thing with a piano wire if it ever comes down to it but I'd never recommend a garrote over a gun either.

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