Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
antonyneal

Bad self defense advice in the wonderful book When All Hell Breaks Loose

14 posts in this topic

I like this book it is great apart from his "experts" advice on unarmed combat. I am light years from being a expert in unarmed defense but I train Muay Thai and Judo as well as being afan of sports like Kickboxing Muay Thai Judo and MMA.

 

The "expert" implies that a kick to the knee has a good chance of breaking said knee despite the fact that in kick boxing Muay Thai and mma kicks to the knee are completely legal often utilized by very strong professional's and they almost never result in a TKO or a broken any thing. He state's that a open palm strike under then chin will break a neck. This is what made me realize he had no clue. Bas Rutten was 205 pounds of lean muscle a champion that specialized in that technique, he utilized it numerous times in almost every fight and never broke a single neck in his 13 year career.

 

The "expert" poo poo's cage fightings application in street self defense but when ever a rare story surfaces about a professional cage fighter getting in a altercation the result is never the cage fighter was easily brutalised. Small men like Urijah Faber have managed to survive assault by many armed men at the same time because of the skills toughness and physical fitness developed through a career in cage fighting. Mma might not be a perfect system for self defense but if you look at the case studies it clearly has a good track record.

 

But the two most egregious crime's of the "expert" where telling people that do not need to spar or join a gym. Training as a complete novice with no qualified supervision will create bad technique that compounds on more bad technique.

 

Drills have there place but there is no substitute for sparing. I have seen guys apply perfect technique in a drill but when they get in the ring with a fully resisting opponent they cant execute until they have done it some times hundreds of times on a fully resisting opponent.

 

If your number one priority is learning to defend your self my advice is this, I am just throwing it out there to see what people think. Go to a reputable mma gym train at least twice a week until you have proven your competent in the basic application of the following skills against a fully resisting opponent.

 

Jab, Cross, Hook, leg kick, elbow slash, foot work for managing range, keeping your hands up, blocking punch's with your arms, pummeling for under hooks, pummeling for full Thai clinch, knees to the body from Thai clinch, at least one take down from clinch, a double leg take down, sprawl, a rear naked choke and one other basic submission, transitioning from side control to mount, ground and pound from mount.

 

Once you have those skills going to Krav Maga class's which include sparring will be helpful for learning about situation specific skills and approaches to fighting as long as you maintain your basics.

 

Also remember that while being a perfect physical specimen in terms of speed strength balance endurance and flexibility wont always win you the fight it defiantly helps so do your best to strive for higher goals in all aspects of fitness.

 

If any one wants to disagree agree or comment on any thing I have said I would enjoy the feed back.

Edited by antonyneal
Lucienuh and Robertskemo like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not a pro fighter in anything. Just some wrestling/sparing will in the Navy. I've only been in a couple fights my whole life. I'd be going for those soft vulnerable spots (Neck, BACK of Knee, temple, balls, kidney) trying to make my escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some good points made about "Training'' and we all know that BOOK smarts is just that!

 

So get togeather with some friends and practic a take down or 2 to get the self-confidence you need to use it..

 

For myself i had two brothers that were 9 and 10 years older,and they teased me a bit and held me down when ever I got on there nerves.

I learned at a young age that a parry knife was an equaliser!!!

At 21 and being 6ft 4 and 220 lbs and just getting out of military some scores were setteled...

 

Life teaches us many things!!!!

I still carry STEEL...

So get some experence,and get familliar with BODY contact and practic!!!

oops sorry about ranting its friday and Im in the mood!!!

LMAO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a real life or death fight, your do whatever you have to. Bite off nose, rip off ears, grab and twist balls, whatever it takes. As long as you dont loose, you win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the only way a kick to the knee is going to possibly going to break the knee would be a down forced stomp to the side of the knee. The knee would need to move to the side past 12 or 15 degrees to cause injury. after many years of soccer i can tell you i have survived 100's of kicks to the front, side and rear of the knees. I may have had a few bruises but nothing that would stop an attack. Hell of a way to break your foot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In a real life or death fight, your do whatever you have to. Bite off nose, rip off ears, grab and twist balls, whatever it takes. As long as you dont loose, you win.

 

gouge a eye with your finger. blindness and pain. Time enough for you to escape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back in the day I would tell the idiot I was going to wrap a cue stick around their head

then I would swing and strike them in the ball of the ankle it was effective.

 

big people do not like having their foot bones rearranged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
back in the day I would tell the idiot I was going to wrap a cue stick around their head

then I would swing and strike them in the ball of the ankle it was effective.

 

big people do not like having their foot bones rearranged.

 

Love it!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been in some fights for sure, but not recently thankfully and none life or death.

 

Took a year of Progressive Street Combat which combined all the dirty tricks from various martial arts including boxing/kickboxing, wrestling, muy tay, etc plus knifes, sticks, etc and various combinations thereof, with tons of sparing against individuals and multiple attackers, from the ground, in a chair, in the dark....just all kinds of stuff. Most of my class were already black belts in something else like Kung Fu, Tai kwon do, etc.....all of them said taking this class was like starting over. Got knocked out a couple times myself...instructor kept a wheel chair handy and we used it on several occasions....

 

Some basic concepts I learned:

 

- Always avoid fights if you have the option; this is coming from my instructor with a 7th degree BB in Kung fu and various BB in other arts....toughest guy I ever met.

- A real fight is NOT a sporting event; there is no concept of fair, anything goes. This is the problem with most martial arts, they teach you RULES!

- Always fight dirty including biting, corneal flicks, stamping on the toes, balls, etc.

- ALWAYS strike first when you feel a fight coming on.

- Kicking someone's ass is like chopping down a tree, it's probably going to take many clean hits/stabs/bullets before he falls.

- The toughest guy off his balance moving backwards is as helpless as anybody.

- A stick is better than a fist, a knife is better than a stick, a gun is better than a knife and running someone over with a fast moving vehicle is better than all three.....hence, go right to the top with the most lethal option, if you have a superior weapon in reach use it.

- NEVER underestimate your opponent with regards to body type, size, race, physical condition, perceived skill level, etc.

- It's not the dog in the fight that wins, its the FIGHT IN THE DOG, seen it many times.

 

Stay safe,

 

Wolfe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like this book it is great apart from his "experts" advice on unarmed combat. I am light years from being a expert in unarmed defense but I train Muay Thai and Judo as well as being afan of sports like Kickboxing Muay Thai Judo and MMA.

 

The "expert" implies that a kick to the knee has a good chance of breaking said knee despite the fact that in kick boxing Muay Thai and mma kicks to the knee are completely legal often utilized by very strong professional's and they almost never result in a TKO or a broken any thing. He state's that a open palm strike under then chin will break a neck. This is what made me realize he had no clue. Bas Rutten was 205 pounds of lean muscle a champion that specialized in that technique, he utilized it numerous times in almost every fight and never broke a single neck in his 13 year career.

 

The "expert" poo poo's cage fightings application in street self defense but when ever a rare story surfaces about a professional cage fighter getting in a altercation the result is never the cage fighter was easily brutalised. Small men like Urijah Faber have managed to survive assault by many armed men at the same time because of the skills toughness and physical fitness developed through a career in cage fighting. Mma might not be a perfect system for self defense but if you look at the case studies it clearly has a good track record.

 

But the two most egregious crime's of the "expert" where telling people that do not need to spar or join a gym. Training as a complete novice with no qualified supervision will create bad technique that compounds on more bad technique.

 

Drills have there place but there is no substitute for sparing. I have seen guys apply perfect technique in a drill but when they get in the ring with a fully resisting opponent they cant execute until they have done it some times hundreds of times on a fully resisting opponent.

 

If your number one priority is learning to defend your self my advice is this, I am just throwing it out there to see what people think. Go to a reputable mma gym train at least twice a week until you have proven your competent in the basic application of the following skills against a fully resisting opponent.

 

Jab, Cross, Hook, leg kick, elbow slash, foot work for managing range, keeping your hands up, blocking punch's with your arms, pummeling for under hooks, pummeling for full Thai clinch, knees to the body from Thai clinch, at least one take down from clinch, a double leg take down, sprawl, a rear naked choke and one other basic submission, transitioning from side control to mount, ground and pound from mount.

 

Once you have those skills going to Krav Maga class's which include sparring will be helpful for learning about situation specific skills and approaches to fighting as long as you maintain your basics.

 

Also remember that while being a perfect physical specimen in terms of speed strength balance endurance and flexibility wont always win you the fight it defiantly helps so do your best to strive for higher goals in all aspects of fitness.

 

If any one wants to disagree agree or comment on any thing I have said I would enjoy the feed back.

 

Here's a few things. While I don't know if you have a "good chance" a kick to the front of the knee, delivered correctly, COULD break it. Even if it only damages the ligaments, its a lot harder to kick or even move on a damaged knee. Still you never rely on one thing. As for cage fighting being talked down about, well yea, its cage fighting. The point is that there are rules. Certain shots are not allowed, in a street fight, everything is allowed. That's the idea behind the anti-cage fighting. Though you are correct, I haven't heard of a cage fighter getting his ass handed to him, that could be because the attacker was an idiot.

 

As for not sparring, that's bull. Everything goes out the window when you're losing oxygen. Unless you train over and over and over to the point of moves being second nature, all technique goes out the window. I love sparring, well I love it all really, but sparring lets you see how far you've progressed. I've been training in Krav for 2 years and I still have those "Oh ****" moments when I first get choked. Mainly because I always close my eyes on those drills, makes it more realistic since you don't know when its coming.

 

I would disagree that you have to know stuff before going to a Krav gym. Any Krav gym worth the money will teach you from an off the street novice status to whatever your goal is. I knew some stuff when I started, but I still learned a lot. Krav is all about opportunity and variety. I still, after 2 years, get set in my ways. In fact last night we went over this. Doing stick defense, every time its taught, you block, attack, and take away. Well just because you have the stick, doesn't mean you have to use it. Maybe the stick drops away, then what? Also went over reading body signs to predict sucker punches. One of the instructors is a local SWAT guy, so it helps to get his real world experience on it as well. But he likes those low kicks, so we practice incorporating those into our punches, either before or after. The key is variety and recognizing the openings. The more you practice the more it becomes second nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes MMA is perfect for your environment in Competition within the ring. I would like to offer this perspective. Sheriffs Dept. Jailers that were trained in and skilled MMA fighters have been hospitalized while trying Ground Fighting Restraint techniques in the Prisons, because the typical ratio of Inmates vs. Deputies/Corrections Officers is greatly steep 15 Inmates to 1 County Jailer/CO, so for this need you cannot engage in Close Quarters Ground Fighting. The other side of the coin is for Military usage as a Peace Keeping force it works ok, but in the crowded streets of the middle east where the typical ratio of 1 Squad of 10 plus solidiers getting ambushed by 100 + Insurgents in the crowded streets, read the incident that happened in Mogadishu (See Movie BlackHawk Down). This will surely get you killed much quicker while you are mounted on a bad guy or even reverse mounted on a bad guy. This is the current focus of Army and Marine Corps Combatives which is heavily MMA Based.

 

I personally think both branches need to drop their MMA/MCMAP programs and find a better suited system similar to what MarSOC, SOFD-D and Seals are using, but allow this to all troops who will serve in a urban combat environment. My previous work with the Marines as a MAIT was to try and get our new Hand to Hand Combat program taught with the MOUT program since all the techniques mirror and mimic any weapon platform. But as you can see political agenda and connections will prevail no matter if it competes against a superior program.

 

For analysis see my previous post under Mixing it up.

http://www.survivalcache.com/forums/showthread.php?3033-Mix-it-Up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its never been a fight. I just hit them and it was over. I've been hurt a lot worse and 100x as often when sparring, for a fact, and hurt people very nearly as bad, with no intent to do so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recent Topics

  • Posts

    • I appreciate the videos P210sig. I feel I need to express that we are no longer in Kansas anymore what was even 10 years ago is NOT now all of us are being survieled, the Internet was given away the SHADOW government is willing to start a civil war and kill Americans and yet the lame stream media is still got their ligs glued to their azz. It has been stated by insiders that the news can no longer be controlled by the deep state and that they are scared out of their minds that Internet news like Drudge Report  Infowars people like Roger Stone and a handful of American patriots like Navy Seals that have broken out on the Internet there are ex agents who have like a deer in headlights realize that they were manipulated and used to surrender our sovereignty to a global government, Funny thing is the U.N. thinks they are the one and they are just as clueless as everyone else, Once the deep state takes the helm this ship of fools will find that the real powers think this ship is a submarine and take her to the bottom.  War is a means to an end and the end is to depopulate the citizens (kill off Americans) breed disillusionment foster anger and futility among the population and divide and conquer using race, financial disparity, and age.  They are trying to kill us all Amrica is the ONLY country that can fight off globalism the one world order and devolving into a muslim anarchy.  The muslims think they are going to rule the U.N. thinks they got it and our deep state thinks they have it and reality is none of them do.  It seldom happens but people that wear themselves out fighting the wrong people are weakened to a point they can not fight at all and are easily taken over. Here is the problem with being a socialist Marxist Leninist Stalinist, Maoist Che' Geverra follower or an atheist or agnostic --- YOUR BLIND TO THE PROBLEM and that is there is nothing new under the sun PERIOD ! when people become arrogant and greedy the next and only step is EVIL and in order to maintain power and wealth they will lie steal and murder anyone who gets in their way and they always have toadies will to lick their shoes and one day kill them off and take the reigns of power and be as or more brutal than the b@stard or wh@re before them. Here is a news flash Venezuela is listed as 63 of the world most fragile countries LMAO there are 62 WORSE ? Guatemala is 61 Honduras 68 Nicaragua 71 Bolivia 75 ????? LOOK OUT WE America destabilized these countries interfered in their governments and now they are all leaning toward socialism or a variant if we do no wall up our border the TSUNAMI of people running from civil war and events like happening in Venezuela will blow up and we will be fighting along our southern boarder !  OUR Government has as General Westley Clark stated so eloquently that our plan under Bush was to take out & middle eastern sovereign nation states and IMPOSE democracy on a people that cannot and will not understand or accept it is against their religion history and educational system PERIOD Europe is going to find out too damn late they have allowed themselves to be invaded by a hostile force it will act as if it is divided all the while usurping the vote installing leaders under the guise that they can only control understand and create organizations to help them assimilate like the muslim brotherhood LMAO etc etc etc....... If we had 100,000 immigrants that had syphilis small pox HIV un-treatable Tuberculosis whooping cough Hantavirus  and a whole litany of others including Ebola would you and I do mean YOU let them in well if your for open boarders you have and it has killed thousands of children not to mention the gangs and child molesters and rapists murderers and thieves from every nation if they are not vetted that is what vetting is for and like Ellis Island we need to see if they are harboring a FREAKIN' disease that will kill us and our children ! If you are for overthrowing a legally elected official that demands that laws already enacted be enforced up and to the letter of the law your a anarchist traitor turncoat ignorant fool and those are the least of your problems especially if your not in office because "THEY" have an agenda to use illegals of all nationalities to vote for them and if you bother to look at how they treat US how stupid are YOU to work for them.  In Houston Texas the city is planning to CUT retirement for fire fighters police ambulance and teachers by HALF and once the retiree dies the benefits to the spouse and now that includes GLBTQ spouses will get their spousal benefit CUT HALF AGAIN ! so this is a war on those that can and do most of the heavy lifting and all the dirty work while the azzholes that polish a chair with their azz and run their mouth are cutting real heroes pay checks.  The government is now going to demand that retired military veterans take retirement or disability not both and only 5 years of health care LMAO and now there are 250 organizations that take in money for veterans because our Government lied and they will cut medicare and medicaid but they got trillions to fight a never ending war and a few want to go to war with Russia on both sides of the Isle LMAO----- and that is the only damn bipartisan vote you could get a up vote on. War and Conflict obscures focus so they can rob us blind.  It is a foregone conclusion to me that the muslims are going to wipe each other out all we are doing is making money selling weapons to all sides our leader talking trash while we buy AK's and ammo and funnel it to them under humanitarian aid all the while it is a test bed for new weapons systems and spying technology !  Does anyone really think that the same government that listened into Minister Merkles the Russian ambassador's and overheard Osama Bin Ladin phone as well as Pablo Escobar's phone did not know about OH lets say the Boston incident ? even when they were given a heads up by the Russians ? how about all the rest of this sh*t people on the WATCH list and they plan and commit acts and we do not know ? REALLY ... Well get ready for censorship as the Internet is no longer in our control get ready for people to die especially those on the right in media who have the b@lls to espose and tell the truth Rodger Stone as been poisoned unsuccessfully but more recent his vehicle was T-boned ON PURPOSE. the total rage of people against Trump and their willingness to call for social unrest resist lawful authority and even undermine the 1st amendment for their own selfish  means they have state police as body guards money that we pay them to commit treason on WE THE PEOPLE, I notice Nancy Pelosi id not like it when she was heckled and shouted down at a public meeting when any group want special privilege or refuses to work together they are nobody's friend but to themselves.  
    • listen close you'll catch about a hundred CLUES as to why the world and RECENT history as we know it is a LIE
    • Their are 2 members in my shooting club that own a Desert Eagle . One in 357 & the other in 50 A&E ( Action Express ) Ive shot them both several times. They were a blast to shoot. Really liked the 50 A&E . Not for the recoil friendly that's for sure. The owner of the 50 said to me at one time that he put 20 grains of powder into one loaded cartridge that he Hand loaded.  If you ask me 20 grains of powder, that's a Shotgun load. If I ever decided to buy a Desert Eagle, the 50 cal would be the ticket.  The 50 cal DE is nicely suited to the design of the firearm if you ask me,  the 44 & 357 magnum not so much so. I've shot all 3 calibers at one time. JMHO .
    • Watching the news (really should avoid that)  but they are using Ketamine as an antisuicide medication and the user says it keeps her from committing suicide DUH and chronic pain does not make a person suicidal ?  I have friends that have had multiple surgeries to stop chronic pain some with no success or limited success. I for one feel the AMA and the FDA use less than scientific methods and allow certain doctors much more leeway to function everything can be addictive there are people who are addicted to eating laundry soap some people cut themselves or body dismorphia. IMHO it is reasonable to suspect a person is overusing medication when request for refills mount or their blood test show higher amounts than normal so we have controls I guess using an ID to track will help. Better living through chemistry I believe in it not as abuse of a drug but use to control pain and allow people to have a life, Ketamine if it is useful use it I do not see a problem with pot for people with life threatening diseases I do think as other drugs we cannot totally trust doctors because some will prescribe without care just for the money and there need to be limitations on operating vehicles people need relief but do not need to endanger others IMHO.