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Barack Obama suports same-sex marraige.

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now tell me just how GOD feels about this subject I think he is very clear I do not care what man says I used to, now I understand there are no reasons to defy rules as in lying stealing or any other rule.

 

Your God can tell you whatever He wants to, JCMS. But we aren't a THEOCRACY. Our law is based on the Constitution, not whatever religious text you or someone else decides to follow. It's wonderful that you are living your life according to your beliefs, but you do NOT have the right to force other people to follow your religious principles, which is and has been your argument here.

 

Also, the hypocrisy of quoting Leviticus in particular makes me want to laugh at you. Do you also follow these directives, or are you willing to concede that you are singling out homosexuals based on your own aversion and not that it's some special mandate from God? Are you cool with slavery because it's clearly not a problem in the Bible, too?

 

  • Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
  • Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
  • Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
  • Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
  • Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9)
  • If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10).
  • If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)
  • If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)
  • If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
  • Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
  • If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
  • People who have flat noses, or are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
  • Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
  • If priests misbehave at the tabernacle by by drinking "wine or strong drink," then God will kill them and send his wrath on "all the people." "It shall be a statute for ever." (Leviticus 10:9)
  • Clams, oysters, crabs, lobsters, and shrimp are abominations to God. (Leviticus 11:10-12)
  • "The swine ... is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch." (Leviticus 11:7-8)
  • Women who give birth are unclean, and must be ritualistically cleansed and animals sacrificed on their behalf. The cleansing process is twice as long if the baby is a girl, because they are apparently so much more sinful. (Leviticus 12:4-9)
  • Men who have wet dreams or get their own semen on themselves also have to go through a cleansing process. (Leviticus 15:16-18, 32)

 

And don't forget that the first, what, nine chapters of Leviticus are dedicated to instructions on ritual animal sacrifice. Are you holding up that standard, too?

 

I will not do harm to anyone and I have no want or reason to interfere with gays they are people doing wrong not unlike any of us none of us are righteous "no not one". but making laws that allow for people to do something to harm themselves I am not for.

 

Ah. So you think the government should be involved in protecting us from ourselves and legislating morality? Then we really need to legislate against all of the things that harm us, like tobacco, fast food, porn, spending too much time online/watching TV, violence as entertainment, sex as entertainment, anything that doesn't directly support capitalism or a narrowly defined American Way, not exercising and eating right, drinking soda, drinking alcohol, anything with trans fats or too much sugar, etc.

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Good now that you understand what's the problem follow the rules.

 

LOL The problem is, I'm a non-believer but an American, which means I actually have the right to choose NOT to follow someone else's religious dogma. But on the plus side, that has literally no impact on whether you choose to follow it on your own.

 

This made me laugh, too:

post-1867-13851498032194_thumb.jpg

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LOL The problem is, I'm a non-believer but an American, which means I actually have the right to choose NOT to follow someone else's religious dogma. But on the plus side, that has literally no impact on whether you choose to follow it on your own.

 

This made me laugh, too:

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Oregonchick just remember Catholics are no different then the Taliban If they think they could get away with it they would cut off the heads of us non believers

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Same view different day!!

 

Im laphing my A$$ off at these responces!!

ITS ABOUT THE FRIGGING MONEY and the Arrogance thats very aparent in these people!!

 

What part dont you understand??

 

"These people" are the ones who make money off the CONSTANT Argument about "personal issues"!!!!

 

Its personal Damit! and non of your bussiness!!!

 

go ahead and stir the boiling pot.ADD to the coffers of the LAWYERS and fake pollitations!!

 

Give POWER to those who realy dont care WHAT YOU Believe!!!

 

Realy,I dont care what you beleve as long as you DONT impose it on ME!!!

 

Keep the Fires Burning"Somebody needs to be put inThe Fire" to prove "IM CORRECT" and your NOT!!!

 

So its just my OPION that history will repete it self again and WHEN NOT IF TSHTF Many will die for NO REASON other than the Lack of What we all agree on...

 

The lack of following the ONE TRUE LAW!!

Love your Neighbor as yourself..yep you have to love yourself FIRST,Than after a life time of finding out WHO the shit you are..LOVE your neighbor!!

 

JMO..Jesus was a BOOTLEGER....He made the Best wine...Never Paid a CENT of TAXES on it!!DID NOT HAVE A PERMIT..Did NOT ask if it was ok!!

 

So you want to argue about it PM me...

IM LMAO...

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Oregonchick just remember Catholics are no different then the Taliban If they think they could get away with it they would cut off the heads of us non believers

 

Careful, inkspotdw. As a Catholic Deacon does that make me an iman?

 

Two points here, first if you carefully read the constitution, it confers NO rights on anyone. It does list those things that the Federal (not state) Government can not do. Rights, according to the founders, are God given unalienable (difference is inalienable means no one can take them from me, unalienable means I can't even give them up willingly). You may not believe in a deity but they certainly did. Marriage is a religious concept. The state recognizes its value by attaching certain 'contractual' benefits to the Marriage covenant. The fact that we fallible humans routinely violate the covenant doesn't change what it is.

 

For the state to create 'civil unions'(the contract part of marriage) may well be within their purview. That is another argument. For the State or Federal government to tell me that I must accept their view of a religious concept is to establish a 'state' religion and then the president becomes pope or god. While I would argue that some politicians think that way, our founders went to pains to prevent it from happening.

 

The equality argument is invalid. If the state can define the religious concept then it is just as valid to assume that polygamy is legal or the 'chain' marriage in Heinlein's 'Moon is a Harsh Mistress' is valid or any other combination of humans and animals. If the state wants to remove the privileges attached to the married couple, they are free to remove them. They are NOT free, to tell me as a member of the clergy, that I MUST, under force of law and the police power of the state, perform a religious ceremony for those that are not entitled to the ceremony. They can create civil unions to their hearts content. To alter a few thousand years of human tradition requires more power than is available to a bunch of congress persons.

 

This isn't opinion, it is straight forward logic of the if A then B kind. Either the government can impose a religion or it can not. If it can not, it can not force homosexual 'marriage' as an acceptable, even laudable, lifestyle on its people. The key is what you can force the unwilling to accept. Changing the meaning of words to appeal to a false equality may be good politics but it is lousy truth telling. What is your answer going to be when NAMBLA wants to 'marry' the victims of their pedophilia? If you're answer is no, on what grounds?

 

We must remember that sometimes the 'feel good' answer is wrong for the strength and health of society.

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Obama ,during his campaign in 2008 was on national T.V when he was asked what his definition of marriage is, he stated that marriage was between a man and a woman. He needed to say that at the time or risk losing votes.

Now just before a fund rasier in hollywood he says his position is "evolving", he rasied 15 million at that event. He and his crew are masters at manipulation.

This is a man who supports killing the unborn. His leadership is driving this country farther and farther from God. We are paying for it ,look at the state we are in,look at the natural disasters that have hit us,God is no longer blessing us as in the past. We were the greatest country the worlds ever seen, now we are a debtor nation dependant on our enemies for money and oil.

This for now is still a free country, we are all entitled to express ourselves and live anyway we want as long as we follow the law.

But some things are just plain wrong....

Edited by biblenguns

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I just have a feeling this whole thing like Asian carp has numerous unintended consequences

once done there's no return like children playing with matches most times we are so unaware

of what destruction we wield in our hands and minds, the worst part we usually have good intentions.

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Why should I care? It doesnt affect me in any way or manner. If gay people want a piece of paper with their name on it give it to them already so they will shut the **** up. Im tired of hearing about this. If God wont take all the stupid people of this earth then im gonna eradicate myself from it. i do have that 1 hollow point in my small pocket of my BOB

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Two points here, first if you carefully read the constitution, it confers NO rights on anyone. It does list those things that the Federal (not state) Government can not do. Rights, according to the founders, are God given unalienable (difference is inalienable means no one can take them from me, unalienable means I can't even give them up willingly). You may not believe in a deity but they certainly did.

 

They believed in a deity, but not all of them were Christians. So do you not consider the Bill of Rights part of the Constitution? That's the only way your argument makes sense to me here.

 

Marriage is a religious concept. The state recognizes its value by attaching certain 'contractual' benefits to the Marriage covenant. The fact that we fallible humans routinely violate the covenant doesn't change what it is.

 

Then marriage should hold literally NO civil or legal value, period. If it's wholly a religious observance, then the state shouldn't be involved in all. But if there is merit to marriage outside of the church, and we therefore support it with things like tax incentives and preferential legal treatment, then it has to be administered according to our laws. And hello, we have specifically set up our laws to disallow discrimination based on gender (which is what this is - you're saying that one of the people getting married doesn't have the right gender, and therefore doesn't have the right to marry).

 

For the state to create 'civil unions'(the contract part of marriage) may well be within their purview. That is another argument. For the State or Federal government to tell me that I must accept their view of a religious concept is to establish a 'state' religion and then the president becomes pope or god. While I would argue that some politicians think that way, our founders went to pains to prevent it from happening.

 

The state isn't telling churches who they have to marry, or telling anyone what religious law is; churches can treat gay couples the way the Catholic church won't marry divorced people. But state marriages will adhere to STATE laws.

 

You can't have this both ways. Either marriage is not part of the state, and therefore is stripped of all legal recognition but can be as religiously narrow as you and yours want it to be, OR it is something that the state has an interest in and therefore must adhere to our laws. That's all.

 

The equality argument is invalid. If the state can define the religious concept then it is just as valid to assume that polygamy is legal or the 'chain' marriage in Heinlein's 'Moon is a Harsh Mistress' is valid or any other combination of humans and animals.

 

Already responded to this argument. That you repeat it doesn't actually make it a valid one; it's a straw man argument. "I can't defeat you based on what we're discussing, so I'm going to exaggerate your position or miscategorize it and then refute 'your' argument based on the way I've described it." Poor form.

 

If the state wants to remove the privileges attached to the married couple, they are free to remove them. They are NOT free, to tell me as a member of the clergy, that I MUST, under force of law and the police power of the state, perform a religious ceremony for those that are not entitled to the ceremony. They can create civil unions to their hearts content.

 

Where is anyone saying that churches have to perform gay marriage ceremonies? Nobody is, because that would be an egregious breach of the separation of church and state. All that is being said is that the state should allow gay marriage - so it would be an option from the justice of the peace, even if a priest wouldn't do it.

 

On the other side of your argument, though, is an interesting question: if someone establishes/already has a church that recognizes homosexuality as equal to heterosexuality, would the state be forced to recognize the wedding ceremonies they perform? And, for that matter, does that add credence to the right of polygamous communities to have their marriages considered valid by the state, since apparently it's up to churches to decide?

 

To alter a few thousand years of human tradition requires more power than is available to a bunch of congress persons.

 

Like slavery? The monarchy? Give me a break.

 

This isn't opinion, it is straight forward logic of the if A then B kind. Either the government can impose a religion or it can not. If it can not, it can not force homosexual 'marriage' as an acceptable, even laudable, lifestyle on its people.

 

It's not. Just because gay people exist doesn't mean you're gay. Just because gay marriage exists doesn't mean that you or even your church needs to support them. It just means that YOUR religious beliefs can't be the be-all, end-all for how other people are allowed to live. Someone else's marriage, or divorce, or single status has literally NOTHING to do with your own, unless that person is your own spouse.

 

The key is what you can force the unwilling to accept. Changing the meaning of words to appeal to a false equality may be good politics but it is lousy truth telling. What is your answer going to be when NAMBLA wants to 'marry' the victims of their pedophilia? If you're answer is no, on what grounds?

 

As I said before, I've already responded to this line of ridiculous "thought." The pretty simple delineation is that children cannot consent to sex and cannot enter into contractual obligations, therefore, they also would not be eligible for being married to anyone regardless of gender or sexual orientation, or affiliation with a disgusting, damaging, hateful organization.

 

We must remember that sometimes the 'feel good' answer is wrong for the strength and health of society.

 

Exactly. Your discomfort with homosexuality and the idea of gay marriage doesn't mean that you can deny an entire group of people basic human rights. A strong, healthy society is supported by smaller family units, like married couples, who are looking toward a common future and building something together. Preventing loving, committed adults from getting married is not going to make our society healthier.

 

And didn't the founding fathers worry about tyranny of the majority?

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Wrattlerking

 

the reason why we should not give anyone anything is just that it is a gift they say they want something

but it is over your, ours, my beliefs they want us to do something to make us them bend us to their will.

 

if your boss wanted 1/2 more hour unpaid what will you say? then next month he wants

15 minutes more? now you lost your lunch and one break but it is a never ending WANT next it will be

vacation time and no raises.

 

what do I get out of letting gays have there way ...NOTHING and then they want to teach

alternative lifestyles to your children then it will go further.

in countries like china and Russia they do not teach what we teach and parents have no control

it is getting like that here and that is the crux of the matter they want power legal power to shove your

nose in it if you cannot see that your blind to everything else that others do and try wrapping it in a flag

I am an American the constitution says blah blah blah I am waiting to hear the star spangled banner.

 

I remember Jane Fonda was very adamant about how she was an American standing on that antiaircraft

gun among all those "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" IN Vietnam.

 

If they do not believe in God then what the hell does a piece of paper mean up until recently

there were laws against sodomy and moral turpitude we struck those down and they are still not happy

because they will never be happy.

next they will want something else and then like spoiled children something else if they do not care

about what most of America thinks it has still been defeated in all the states that have placed it on

the ballot then why should they care about a piece of paper.

 

the world is coming apart at the seams and here they are foaming at the mouth to give them something

they could care less about real problems or people in trouble the mortgage mess the starving children

here in America etc NO they want their way and they want it NOW!

 

the CDC are so scared of them they do not even give the American People the status of the HIV / AIDS

virus did you know that is have more than one for each more virulent than the other?

do you know why money for testing and experimentation and new drugs are being used in Africa?

because poor dying folks will take anything, they are being used as human guinea pigs to serve the

population here they do not care about those people they would die anyway was a statement made

by a U.N. official.

 

If I told you we would have to kill your children for food what would you say?

well very powerful people are killing Africans in the hopes of finding a cure so people here can have

THEIR LIFESTYLE.

then all the rhetoric we practice safe copulation oh yea that is why then numbers of the infected

are still growing?

but then they blame the drug addicts ask most addicted people why they started drugging?

molestation, abuse, self loathing and NO hope.

 

why have normal virgin men and women who marry do not have such diseases ask yourself that.

 

If you do not fear God then why would you care about what man thinks? I fear God and do not care

what anyone thinks I do as I please when I please mans law is not always just is that not why most

of us are here in these threads we are dissatisfied and want a change we want government out of our

lives and businesses but now we have someone who wants government to give them something

I think we are all tired of government GIVING things because they have unintended consequences

and you will get to pay for their mistakes AGAIN when are you people going to wake up!

When someone hands you something and says it will cost you nothing has that EVER EVER worked out.

 

How many times have you got to hear the STRAIGHT peoples version of San Francisco I have only

heard it on CBN and then only a few times.

If you do not give the supposedly offended few their way then they attack you and demonize you.

and the hate and venom spews out.

 

I have first hand knowledge of this and it has destroyed 2 families one right now is waiting on the death

of their father from GUESS WHAT it ain't a head cold. his ex wife is getting tested every six months

waiting for her death sentence and the grand children are being tested because he was so selfish

even though he knew he was infected he was in intimate contact with the children.

and these are 2 incidents that I am aware of first hand.

I have heard of many others from i

interviews on T.V. and when I worked in prisons many murders from jealous and hateful or spited people

it all goes hand in had YOU DO NOT GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING no piece of paper will

make you happy not a divorce decree not a death certificate not a title to a home because there is

ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS SOMETHING ELSE.

 

The original tax was to pay for the war now there are over 100 taxes and they still need more

so go ahead believe them when THEY say this is all we will ever want if you do your an idiot.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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The thing that you HAVE to understand is that as someone here said, this and all bigotry that is government sponsored is about money. The blacks, even after they were freed as owned slaves, were still second class citizens and enslaved economically. They were not paid or treated like others and that was wrong. Equal pay for equal work.

 

The fact of the matter is that the government foments racial and difference based hatred through their policies. The gap between blacks and whites is as great as ever. Reverse discrimination didn't really improve the average Africans lot in life but it DID make a lot of people mad at them.

 

Let's be REAL here for just a second. What business is it of you me or the government who I sleep with or what I do in my home? The AIDS thing that someone brought up is just ignorance. AIDS is actually growing fastest right now among hetro over 50 people. The cost of treating it is mostly BS and they are beating it anyway. Complaining about the cost is like bitching about polio vaccinations. It cost a little...so what.

 

Snake, how can you claim to believe that everything it says in the bible is a must follow rule? It mentions gay issues about three or four times in the bible and so everyone is so SURE that they are in some way evil. All through the old and new testament it says OVER and OVER again to remember the SABBATH and keep it Holy. Where were you at Sunday? I bet you were at or at least thinking about Church. WHY do you worship on the day dedicated to the Sun God RA and ignore the Sabbath? The Sabbath is SATURDAY, the seventh day of the week. The Jews keep the Sabbath and Christians laugh at it. If someone is going to hell for being gay; something that was not of a major concern evidently then where are the Christians going for breaking one of the most important demands of the Bible?

 

Quoting chapter and verse is silly. It is mostly taken out of context and nearly every quote someone makes is refuted elsewhere in the bible. Eating catfish and shrimp is actually mentioned as a sin as often as the gay issue. (Eat not that from the sea which hath not scales) Do you eat pork? Do you cook meat and other things in the SAME pot or pan? The path to hell in the old testament was a hundred miles wide and the one to heaven was almost nonexistent.

 

Read your New Testament!!!! READ the words of Jesus. Judge not lest ye be judged! Love thy enemy as yourself. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.... It is endless yet most Christians can't seem to understand. Snake! give up your hate and open your heart to love and through that portal you will find salvation. If Gays are sinners and doomed to hell then that is something strictly between THEM and their God. It is NOT your job to judge them! Love them pity them but when you hate them you make yourself many times worse than you THINK they are.

 

Our government like all governments uses bigotry as a tool. If we are separated and at each others throats we aren't watching them. They use our hatred and fear to steal away our freedom. The fact is that they are all about "We the people". STOP letting them divert your attentions! The Gays, the Black Folks, the Spanish descended, they are NOT your enemy. Women are not LESS because of their gender! All of this is stuff our leaders have pushed us into believing with their discriminatory laws and rules. First they treat one group badly and then they switch and treat another group badly. They tell us they are doing it to be FAIR. ROTFLMFAO How can you fix discrimination by discriminating?????

 

I will TELL you the future. Read it believe it. The next groups to become the American Niggers is going to be the old and the overweight. The Government sees the old as a leach on their funds. You are no longer producing and to them you are a bad person because you won't just DIE and let THEM pocket that money. The overweight will be hit on and made to be less because they are visible and easy targets. Already they make it as if you were less if you are over weight. Slowly, as they did with smokers, they will be demonized and people will be ENCOURAGED to be rude to them. Watch how the Gays are being treated and SEE your future or the future of your grand-kids. Eventually they will be the bottom of the barrel.

 

I started my own business because as a White, non-Hispanic male, heterosexual American citizen I was mostly unable or ineligible for most of the promotions where I works. I got tired of seeing incompetent people advanced for the sake of a false equality. I saw black NOB-Americans get jobs that I couldn't even apply for because they had to fill their government mandated racial quota. (This was a job for Pullups 76 refinery)

 

Open your hearts and give people a chance. That doesn't mean that you have to be a sucker or an easy mark. Just wait until they do something to YOU before you judge them based on, probably false, ideas that you have has pushed at you by people that want to use your fear to control you.

 

Young men that went to Nam in the 60s and 70s found out that a Black man can be your brother when he is watching your back in the bush every day. I KNOW people that found the same to be true in Iraq and Afghanistan when they found out that some of their brothers and sisters in arms were gay. When someone is trying to kill you it is amazing how little the color of the skin or sexual preference makes if that person is protecting your back and has demonstrated the willingness to die for you if it is called for!

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I'm now done with this topic. I am terrible about beating a dead horse and have learned over the years that people that want to love do so and those that wish to hate will do so. You almost never can change this basic trait in a person and trying to do so just pisses them off. Love is a lot more fun that hate and easier on my stomach so I choose that. Those that have read my other posts will know that this choice has not made me soft. I am more willing than most to kill my own dog if it is called for but I do it without hating and if possible with love. It is a sadness but sometimes such things have to be done.

 

Love and hugs to all that can accept such. High fives and chest bumps to those that prefer that...

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Interesting thread. It's disappointing to me that this issue has taken place for 2 reasons: O's need to raise money from the militant liberal base and 2. getting the big problems off the front page. But, fortunately early polling suggests that the Independent voters are against the Big O's coming out party at a rate of about 2.5 to 1. So, hopefully he has hurt himself even more. And it's more than a little ironic that O seems to be taking a state's rights approach. That's laughable.

 

Personally, this is one of those issues, that offer me my own little conundrum. I could care less what people do with them selves, to them selves, while still believing the behavior in question is abhorrent and is against the Bible's teaching. On the other hand, as a Libertarian, I come down on the state's rights side of the argument. As I see it, the only constitutionally sound solution is to let the state's decide. I know which way my state would vote, so the gay couples here that want to get married, can move to Oregon. Sorry for that bluntness, but I grew tired of all the damn whining and victimhood from everyone on the left a long time ago.

Edited by MikeE

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Believe it or not I was pulling OC chain

 

and for everyone to know Saturday is the Sabbath not Sunday I go to church on Sunday but

I am not being fooled, Saturday is the Sabbath as it is not Sunday.

 

And guess what boys and girls Christmas is not Jesus's birthday.

 

we know when that is and it is not December 25th.

 

Leviticus is the book of the law and deals with the Jewish people we are grafted in and we are

not under the law we are under the blood look in Acts 10:1-22 here is a link for anyone interested.

 

http://bibleencyclopedia.com/pictures/Acts_10_Peter's_vision_2.htm

 

as with anyone concerned with how things work you have to pray and concentrate as well as study

 

I cheat I look it up and from many sources and having read the bible and having a good memory

it comes to me and I search it out again.

 

Once you find someone is a non believer your wasting your time nothing will convince them

"Cast not your pearls before swine"

 

as far as civil unions I have no quarrel or comment have at it.

 

BUT i knew a guy that loved his car he got into fights over it detailed it every week and ended

up loosing his wife who I considered a very fine woman because he spent all his time and money

on that car and it was kind of gradual but it became an obsession.

Just because you love something or someone does not make it good for you or right.

Ask any of the women who worshiped Charles Manson or any other radical.

 

in less than a year I have seen love turn into hate and trying to kill each other

"OH but we love each other" Bonnie & Clyde and better yet Aileen Wuornos lesbian serial killer.

 

does that mean everyone who is gay is bad NO in fact just like everyone else they are sinners

we all have our cross to bear some are depressed some of us hate some steal or are jealous to

the point of self destruction. it has no bearing on sexual orientation.

 

I will not place animals at my level I love them take care of them but they are not equal

gold is above lead

diamonds are more valuable than gravel

5 runs in baseball beat 4

 

there is a hierarchy and status there are smart people and dumb people in every race and religion

but, God has set a table with all the goodies family children wives husbands money power fame

respect in other words all the good things of life.

he asks you to come and dine.

There is always some who look at it and say I do not want that I can get better on my own

"I DON"T NEED YOU" referring to God.

 

well that is their choice we have free will there was a count that hated God he ravaged the country side

and burned all the bibles he could find and even killed the people who possessed them gradually he

went mad locked himself in his room in a castle and was heard screaming the Nazarene the Nazarene.

and when they broke down the door they found him dead.

that castle has been printing Gideon bibles and any where you go in over a hundred languages you can

find a Gideon Bible from the arctic to the antarctic in communist nations to the jungle.

 

Rail and foam at the mouth spitting hatred it will do you no good God is always has been and always

will be, you say you cannot understand HIM well no one does imperfection can never reach perfection.

Hussein Bolt fastest man alive you cannot understand how he does it I don't think he does he has a

gift and goes with it.

 

We all have gifts it is how we use them and to what ends remaking the rules because you hate the game

does not change that there is a game does not change someone will be better than anyone at it.

 

I have no hatred for anyone not even those who hate me they cannot stop my God or my thoughts

The cannot live longer than they are suppose to, or be happy no matter the situation.

 

near death experiences have been cataloged and written about for years and only recently have

the oldest ones come under scrutiny and funny thing they are the same as the newer ones both the

negative ones and the positive ones.

 

I have a snake in my garden he is not venomous and I ignore him but is he decides to start

planning a family here I will be forced to solve the problem.

people who live in cities elbow to elbow and hate their fellow man are crazy if you hate it move

why become like them all crammed into a structure like ants and more like a moral

sewer having no real identity just going along with every new flush flavor of the month club.

learn to take care of your side of the street and do not worry about others too much causes

come and go but being honest and true does not fall out of style.

 

and Damn your right on tract many race and religious and ethical issues

are for money and power I wish everyone would see that we could all

have a better life if we were more focused on the needs not wants of

our fellow man.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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OC,

I don't want to involve this forum in a discussion of logic. I will point out a couple of things.

First the Bill of Rights limits the Federal government; it does not CONFER rights. "Congress shall pass no law" is not giving a right to the people. They already have the right and the first 10 amendments are there to prevent the Fed from infringing (as in 'shall not be infringed') on those rights.

 

Secondly, in way too many places (military chaplains for example) had to actively resist the government order to perform homosexual ceremonies or other such demands. In Canada, there is an on-going attempt to imprison certain Catholic bishops for 'hate crimes' for their refusal to perform these unions.

 

Finally, the federal recognitions for marriage have not always existed, nor do they need to exist. They were put in place to encourage a strong family since that is seen as a good thing for the nation. The individual States are perfectly free to establish state religions. Massachusetts actually had a state religion for several years after the ratification of the constitution. What is not acceptable is the federal government interfering with a religious issue. In some places, Mexico for example, the state does not recognize a 'church' wedding. You can be married in the church but before the legal niceties of the contractual union is only accomplished at the civil registrar's office.

 

I don't mind folks disagreeing with me. I just want to be sure they understand their own arguments. Don't believe what people tell you the constitution says, read it for yourself. Several times and read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers to find out what our founders thought they meant by what the wrote. It is usually an epiphany for folks when they find out that what they were told about these documents simply is not true.

 

I'm done now. I didn't intend to get started in this thread but IF I'm going to be called an iman, I want to be able to issue fatwas.

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I'm done now. I didn't intend to get started in this thread but IF I'm going to be called an iman, I want to be able to issue fatwas.

 

LOL

 

I apologize - after responding to you, I logged out, but I actually meant to respond to inkspotdw's ridiculous assertion that Catholics are no different than the Taliban.

 

As a non-believer, I attended a Jesuit University and found it a wonderful, enlightening experience. Yes, I have serious disagreements with some aspects of Catholic doctrine, but I also have a lot of respect for the Church, what it represents, and the clergy and lay people who are believers. There is a lot of ugly history from the Inquisition, the Crusades, etc., but it was protestants who held the Salem Witch Trials - religion is one of those things that people are unfortunately sometimes willing to kill over. That said, you can see how the Church has grown and evolved over time and that, at its heart, there is a genuine and overriding commitment to meeting the spiritual and physical needs of the faithful, along with a desire to reach out and ease the suffering of those who are not part of the Church. I was a liberal before going to school, but I truly learned about social justice from the Catholics I volunteered with.

 

The Taliban, on the other hand, are not representative of any standardized religious belief or tradition. While the Taliban present themselves as Muslim students leading a reform movement, they have been criticized by Islamic scholars as being poorly educated in Islamic law and history - and even in Islamic radicalism, which has a long history of scholarly writing and debate. Their implementation of Islamic law seems to be a combination of Wahhabi orthodoxy (i.e., banning of musical instruments) and tribal custom (i.e., the all-covering birka made mandatory for all Afghan women). They are brutal and oppressive in their enforcement practices, but simultaneously undermine their own authority by doing things like trafficking in opium, operating terrorist camps for outsiders, and failing to assist their supporters in curbing acts of terrorism within their territory (which is ultimately how they lost power in the early 2000s). They are radicals, warmongers, terrorists, NOT religious authorities. And they are nothing like the Catholics I know or have known, and it's despicable that someone would say that.

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I think its funny that people draw an arbitrary line after gay marriage. Guess what, polygamists like their unions, same with those who like animals and little kids. Who are we to deny them their "love". Furthermore, if we give these "rights" to gays, why not couples who just live together? Shouldn't they too get the same benefits of marriage, I mean, afterall, its just a piece of paper. In fact, why not just get rid of marriage altogether. Its an antiquated and out of date idea anyways. Who needs it.

 

Personally I could care less about what you do in your own house. But when you call me intolerant because I don't support it, then we have an issue. This is not about gay MARRIAGE, its about them wanting their "marriages" to have the same legal standing as a heterosexual marriage, which is no longer a private issue. Oh, and the Constitution does not guarantee the right to marry.

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I think its funny that people draw an arbitrary line after gay marriage. Guess what, polygamists like their unions, same with those who like animals and little kids. Who are we to deny them their "love". Furthermore, if we give these "rights" to gays, why not couples who just live together? Shouldn't they too get the same benefits of marriage, I mean, afterall, its just a piece of paper. In fact, why not just get rid of marriage altogether. Its an antiquated and out of date idea anyways. Who needs it.

 

 

 

Personally I could care less about what you do in your own house. But when you call me intolerant because I don't support it, then we have an issue. This is not about gay MARRIAGE, its about them wanting their "marriages" to have the same legal standing as a heterosexual marriage, which is no longer a private issue. Oh, and the Constitution does not guarantee the right to marry.

 

JonM1911,

I agree, but I might also add that they want everyone to agree with what they are doing in order to convince themselves that what they are doing is O.K. It is about making them feel good about their "lifestyle". That way they can see themselves as "Normal", and feel that the stigma of a gay lifestyle has been removed.

 

That being said, I really do not care if they are Gay or not. I do not agree with it nor do I want to have it shoved down my throat.

Edited by VIS 9

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Wrattlerking

 

the reason why we should not give anyone anything is just that it is a gift they say they want something

but it is over your, ours, my beliefs they want us to do something to make us them bend us to their will.

 

if your boss wanted 1/2 more hour unpaid what will you say? then next month he wants

15 minutes more? now you lost your lunch and one break but it is a never ending WANT next it will be

vacation time and no raises.

 

what do I get out of letting gays have there way ...NOTHING and then they want to teach

alternative lifestyles to your children then it will go further.

in countries like china and Russia they do not teach what we teach and parents have no control

it is getting like that here and that is the crux of the matter they want power legal power to shove your

nose in it if you cannot see that your blind to everything else that others do and try wrapping it in a flag

I am an American the constitution says blah blah blah I am waiting to hear the star spangled banner.

 

I remember Jane Fonda was very adamant about how she was an American standing on that antiaircraft

gun among all those "FREEDOM FIGHTERS" IN Vietnam.

 

If they do not believe in God then what the hell does a piece of paper mean up until recently

there were laws against sodomy and moral turpitude we struck those down and they are still not happy

because they will never be happy.

next they will want something else and then like spoiled children something else if they do not care

about what most of America thinks it has still been defeated in all the states that have placed it on

the ballot then why should they care about a piece of paper.

 

the world is coming apart at the seams and here they are foaming at the mouth to give them something

they could care less about real problems or people in trouble the mortgage mess the starving children

here in America etc NO they want their way and they want it NOW!

 

the CDC are so scared of them they do not even give the American People the status of the HIV / AIDS

virus did you know that is have more than one for each more virulent than the other?

do you know why money for testing and experimentation and new drugs are being used in Africa?

because poor dying folks will take anything, they are being used as human guinea pigs to serve the

population here they do not care about those people they would die anyway was a statement made

by a U.N. official.

 

If I told you we would have to kill your children for food what would you say?

well very powerful people are killing Africans in the hopes of finding a cure so people here can have

THEIR LIFESTYLE.

then all the rhetoric we practice safe copulation oh yea that is why then numbers of the infected

are still growing?

but then they blame the drug addicts ask most addicted people why they started drugging?

molestation, abuse, self loathing and NO hope.

 

why have normal virgin men and women who marry do not have such diseases ask yourself that.

 

If you do not fear God then why would you care about what man thinks? I fear God and do not care

what anyone thinks I do as I please when I please mans law is not always just is that not why most

of us are here in these threads we are dissatisfied and want a change we want government out of our

lives and businesses but now we have someone who wants government to give them something

I think we are all tired of government GIVING things because they have unintended consequences

and you will get to pay for their mistakes AGAIN when are you people going to wake up!

When someone hands you something and says it will cost you nothing has that EVER EVER worked out.

 

How many times have you got to hear the STRAIGHT peoples version of San Francisco I have only

heard it on CBN and then only a few times.

If you do not give the supposedly offended few their way then they attack you and demonize you.

and the hate and venom spews out.

 

I have first hand knowledge of this and it has destroyed 2 families one right now is waiting on the death

of their father from GUESS WHAT it ain't a head cold. his ex wife is getting tested every six months

waiting for her death sentence and the grand children are being tested because he was so selfish

even though he knew he was infected he was in intimate contact with the children.

and these are 2 incidents that I am aware of first hand.

I have heard of many others from i

interviews on T.V. and when I worked in prisons many murders from jealous and hateful or spited people

it all goes hand in had YOU DO NOT GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING no piece of paper will

make you happy not a divorce decree not a death certificate not a title to a home because there is

ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS SOMETHING ELSE.

 

The original tax was to pay for the war now there are over 100 taxes and they still need more

so go ahead believe them when THEY say this is all we will ever want if you do your an idiot.

 

Like I said before how does this affect me? I really didnt read all what you typed. They just allowed gay people to be open in the military. How did this effect anyone? It didnt. As far as bosses making you work more and stuff ummm I dont feel sorry for anyone. Join the Military and youll see what long hours are. All you wrote seems to be your opinion thats cool everyone has the right to their own opinion. Nothing you wrote will make a difference in my life.

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As entertaining as it is to see OC and Capt Bart square off, and it is very entertaining to see those two big brains duke it out, I have to wonder what anyone really cares about this topic that much?

 

Well, unless you're gay and have found that special someone. Let them fight for the rights they want, no need or reason to get upset about it. As for the whole marriage = religious institution thing, I got married by a justice of the peace with nothing vaguely religious involved, cost a heck of a lot less and got all the same legal rights and responsibilities as my buddy who spent 15k on his brides dream wedding and the big church.

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