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John

CCW-SHTF Smith and Wesson Hide Out Gun

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After a couple of long discussions with a close friend that just secured his concealed carry weapons permit, I am again pondering if this is something I need. We have the Castle Doctrine here that covers the house and the car, but any step outside of that could be trouble. Basically I live by the principle of "better tried by 6, than carried by 6", but some scenarios might not be worth a felony. Retract and escape is my first plan, but sometimes that is not possible.

 

Fast forward this to owning private property that is both hunting land and a timber investment, but the boundary is set against a small rural town which contributes greatly to trespassing and poaching. For that reason alone my backpack is never without some kind of defensive weaon. I prefer to have my AR in the ATV front rack bearing a 30-round magazine for effect, but that is not always happening either.

 

So, for weight considerations, I currently carry a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard, semi-auto, .380 pistol with the integral laser pointer. I know all the arguements against the 380 and recognize it is perhaps not the better choice, but it is better than a stick. For me the 380 is a close range choice if I happen upon a confrontation on my property that requires a face-to-face. If I cannot find the trespasser, then perhaps a few shots in the air will set them to running.... off.

 

The Smith Bodyguard is a small handgun worthy of consideration. It is highly ergonomic, well made, and can easily fit in the pants or shirt pocket. The magazine pinky finger extension aids is gripping the gun and holding on. It is a joy to shoot, and using some proper defense ammo it can be a force to recon with.

 

If you need a small, multi-shot, pocket or backpack pistol, then visit your local dealer and handle one of these. It may just change your mind on pocket carry and the 380.

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I think concealment is one of those things that gets over looked at times with some survivalist. Not every situation where you could need a firearm is going to be a total SHTF moment where you are going to be capable of just shouldering an AR or AK.

 

If a small scale disaster happens (one where a collapse of gov't hasn't happend) and you HAVE to make a trip, in many cases you aren't going to be able to shoulder that rifle and enter anywhere.

 

The conceal-ability of a firearm is going to be a huge relief to anyone. Many times you aren't going to be able to determine when and where you are going to be when something happens. You may have a ways to go to get home to get to your family and loved ones. Having that .44 magnum is a great idea but not practical.

 

John, you mentioned the .380. Nothing wrong (in my opinion) with this cartridge. Some people can carry a 1911 on their hip all day, everyday, without a problem. This isn't always an option for me. When the weather is nice some times it isn't practical for me to strap on my Glock 30, although I am capable of doing a good job with the appropriate holster. It also isn't practical when I'm dressed up to carry my Glock 30, at least if I'm not wearing a coat. For this the little pocket pistols are great. I would rather have something on me than nothing.

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With regard to the people who frequent your propterty. I have had some issues with this and most of the time they run well before you see them b.c poachers are always looking out for landowners. In the event you approach someone or in my case had someone waiting at my truck when I walked out of the woods to the road I would recommend having the pistol in plain sight.

 

Reasoning is two fold: (i) if you claim to have shot an agressive person and you can prove the gun was in plain sight then you have better defense then pulling a gun out of no where and shooting them dead, (ii) when the above situation happened the person immediately saw the pistol strapped to the inside of my rubber boots (knee high) and just "wanted to make an introduction". Maybe he did or maybe he wanted to complain about something and turn it into more than that until he saw the pistol, along with my rifle.

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I don't know. I don't like "telegraphing" to anyone what I may or may not be carrying.

 

understand. it can work or backfire. just depends on the situation. the one at hand about poachers is a little tricky b/c although illegal it is not a reasonable self defence situation. you go hunting with rifle and so does everyone else. approaching someone in the wooods during hunting seasons carries a reasonable assumption that they too will be armed and could easily have wandered on to your land to find wounded game or they are lost (that's what they will claim).

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So, for weight considerations, I currently carry a Smith and Wesson Bodyguard, semi-auto, .380 pistol with the integral laser pointer. I know all the arguements against the 380 and recognize it is perhaps not the better choice, but it is better than a stick. For me the 380 is a close range choice if I happen upon a confrontation on my property that requires a face-to-face. If I cannot find the trespasser, then perhaps a few shots in the air will set them to running.... off.

 

The Smith Bodyguard is a small handgun worthy of consideration. It is highly ergonomic, well made, and can easily fit in the pants or shirt pocket. The magazine pinky finger extension aids is gripping the gun and holding on. It is a joy to shoot, and using some proper defense ammo it can be a force to recon with.

 

If you need a small, multi-shot, pocket or backpack pistol, then visit your local dealer and handle one of these. It may just change your mind on pocket carry and the 380.

 

Depending on state, you may or may not need a CHL to keep a gun in your vehicle. In Texas you don't. There are several good things about the CHL: you can buy from a dealer without a background check (you had one for the CHL), a nice thing if the internet is down; you can carry anywhere it is legal in your state or any state that has a reciprocal agreement with your state; LEOs (most of them) relax a bit when handed a CHL because it means you have been checked by the system - in Texas you even get to skip the security check getting into the capital in Austin; if you are transporting guns in the vehicle, there is less non-sense about "locked so as to be inaccessible by the driver"/"ammo stored separately"/ etc. All around a good thing, even if you never carry concealed.

Like all small bore weapons, the correct choice in ammo becomes more important than for a major caliber. If your land is such that you might be discussing the state of the environment with a large bruin, that 380 won't impress him - will probably just make him mad. If you are looking at up close and personal with nothing larger than canine or human it can work quite well.

As to firing "a couple of shots" I strongly, strongly advise not to do that. First, you shoot in the air and you are responsible for where that rounds lands. Morally and legally, you've accepted full responsibility for any harm or damage done. The second, perhaps more critical from a survival point of view, is that you have just "shot first". LEO shows up and the BG can quite legitimately and honestly say that you shot at him and he didn't give you a reason to do so. That is a bad plan A. Never fire a weapon unless you full intend to kill or destroy something. (exception is signalling distress when lost.)

I often carry a pocket pistol (am right now, actually) - never a first choice (but then a handgun is never a first choice). Proper ammo selection makes a .380 a viable weapon for your needs.

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I have long debated the carry permit but so far have not elected to further register myself. Castle rule supports me where I live in the house, vehicle or private property. Where I hunt, shooting in the "air" is no issue, but I get your point. I also don't live in a mega-city where a bullet would come down on somebody working in their garden. We should all consider having some kind of "carry" weapon we are comfortable with. As CC says we're not likely to have our AK or AR on hand under usual daily treks.

 

I am still researching some of the best performing .380 ammo that would at least slow down any advance.

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I am still researching some of the best performing .380 ammo that would at least slow down any advance.

 

Not certain if you saw this link I posted from another thread but thought it might help in case you hadn't seen it.

 

http://www.ballistics101.com/380_acp.php

 

As you are aware it depends on what they do in your gun.

 

For a while I thought the Remington Golden Saber round was the way to go but have since changed my mind on that one. Heavy round coming out of a short barreled gun equaled poor power and expansion. If you haven't looked into the Hornady Critical Defense rounds I would make sure to check them out. I know Capt Bart likes 'em too.

 

As I stated in another post though, I load FMJ rounds in the .380's during the winter months up here in OH. Need all the help I can get on penetration with the thicker clothing. Luckily, being that it's colder I don't have to worry about carrying the .380 too much during the colder months.

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CCSir: Your point on the heavy round coming from short handgun barrel is the classic textbook explanation and a good rule of thumb to follow in general. Short barrels won't gen up as much velocity as longer barrels, but in rifles that measure is roughly 50fps per inch. Maybe that holds for handguns, too, probably closer with pistols than revolvers. Plan to look into the Hornady ammo you mention, but I also use the cheaper FMJ for practice, and plinking. Another good alternative to a good pocket handgun is the Colt Detective Special or a Smith 36 in 38 Special.

 

My initial post was intended purely as a gear review recommendation of the S&W Bodyguard pistol. It is what it is. I guess we can't discuss the pistol without the capability of the chambering. I just read a good piece in the Handgunner magazine last night suggesting that the 380 is a whole lot better to have than nothing at all. That's my stance, too.

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any firearm is lethal does not matter what caliber ask your local mortician

 

a 5 shot revolver with good ammo hydro shock gold dot some others

snub to a 3 inch barrel no safeties may be a set of crimson trace laser grips.

and some safari land ammo strips.

autos are not good they can and will jamb at the most needed moment

carried a S&W model 49 bodyguard for years then got a 649

If your jumpy scary or have never been i a bloody fight reconsider carrying a weapon

are you willing to shoot at least 100 rounds a day for months with one weapon in order to become

proficient what you think your going to become roy rodgers by watching T.V.

if the offender lives are you willing to loose everything because in a court they are going to lie

and point the finger at you what constitutes a legal reason to kill you might be surprised.

do you ever have a drink --- under the influence can't carry into a store with a notice or state or federal

building a place that serves alcohol churches frown on it on the freeway road rage the offender is another color hate crime so where are you going to carry this talisman of protection the shower

OH and do you have 40 grand for a criminal lawyer and if a child get your weapon and does anything with it your getting charged with a felony no more guns for you if anyone knows you got one on you all they got to do is dial 911 in my day it was called drop a dime on you and tel the they just hurt my feelings and off

you go to jail if you ain't a bad as* stay out of there hood be home at a reasonable hour and chances are you won't need a gun

because you wont you will leave it in the car in will be in the bottom of your purse its to heavy

its not comfortable it chews my clothes and stains them.

how much time do you think your going to have and by the time you realize there's a problem you can't make a move others are in the line of fire or at risk if you fail

are you hyper aware of your surroundings to you mirror / watch surroundings in reflective surfaces,

always aware of who is behind you look for inconsistencies in clothing mannerisms do you notice eye shift

all cars around yours who's in them do you listen to that little voice

just because you own a hammer does not mean you know how to build a house

think well before you take this step......

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I would like to clarify my previous post.

 

if your are not willing to die in a hail of bullets forget carrying a gun.

 

there are a few videos of a Jeweler who was robbed 3 times after he was shot

in 2 different confrontations he sold his business and quit.

 

numerous business owners have had similar events.

 

it is better to channel your activities in hours and places not known for crime.

 

many people are in sales and their territory is in gang areas if you think your going to pop

one of theirs and get away with it be my guest all records are open your name your address,

they on the other hand are hidden from view the police will not tell you who they are and

show you pictures because they are presumed innocent and it is not germane to the case.

 

the police are not your friend if they were why do they care who dropped a convict or known

gang member you should be able to shoot them on sight like a rabid skunk with no repercussions.

but the police will not care, once you let them interrogate you if you say one word wrong the D.A.

will crucify you.

 

you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to an attorney.

 

I have dealt with murders and gang members and the powers.

there are many, too many each has their own reason for a conviction any conviction that's how you move up as a law enforcement or court official.

criminals have the same ladder to climb on the other side to make money of witch their gang gets part

same as the court.

one tries to catch killers the other tries to be killers sometimes these rolls are reversed the police make

their bones when they pop a criminal now I.A. tries to make their bones by proving them to be a bad cop.

and the criminal is the top of the food chain for popping a officer.

 

YOU are a bystander an outsider one wants you dead to not testify the other wants you to testify before you are dead and after you testify the court has no witness protection program.

so the criminals family can sue you or the gang can kill you and until the criminals do something your out

on a limb.

really no one wants you one would rather have a confession the other you dead.

 

If you are involved in any shooting your whole life will be investigated with your family and friends.

and it ticks some of them off and they do not have the right not to answer or they can be

arrested for obstructing an investigation or interfering with an officer in his duties.

and some are stupid and blab and blab about everything you ever did including hiding your diapers.

they have many ways of applying pressure not just to you but everyone you know and many you know

have something to hide from the police or are afraid of them either way the police use it as a wedge.

were you friends?

do you have friends or family in common ? did you ever meet?

how are you connected?

are you a drug user was it a drug deal gone bad?

were you lovers? a lovers triangle?

were you in a deal together were you trying to hire them?

make a buy or a insurance scam.

the police mind is a twisted thing because they deal with twisted people.

they want to connect the dots and when they can't it makes them start coming up with scenarios

if one jells the D.A. will take it and run to the grand jury.

and if someone dies it will never and I mean never go away it can be called a murder and your on the hook

years from now you are no billed {grand jury says there is insufficient or no evidence to go to trial

you can be cleared it } don't mean squat.

if more evidence or a witness or both a re investigation starts until you go to court and are found not

guilty you have the sword of Damocles hanging over your head.

even then people have been brought to trial on other charges related to the incident if you touched the

body tampering with evidence if you omitted a fact in your statement obstruction of justice,

falsifying documents, lying under oath they got more tricks than a 100 dollar date.

 

and then you will have made enemies are you ready for that and they may be from both sides LOL

 

and TEOTWAWKI, police actions, war, and rescue missions when it ends and it always does there will be

court marshals tribunal, revenge friendly fire, blame summary executions local trails.

or else they just do not need your kind around anymore or you know to much or they just plain fear you.

 

I have seen where are soldiers have been speaking of their exploits let us hope that it is not used against

them we are living in an uncertain world and there are powers that wanted our ex to be brought before

a world court wonder what they will do when its just your son or daughter or wife or husband.

IMHO I would not give any information as it could be used as evidence technically it is a multinational

effort so who knows how the future will consider actions done in the heat of the moment.

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Good review I will have to take a closer look at this particular caliber and pistols in the near future. I am currently in the process of researching the permit thing in my state, would love to be able to carry my 1911 45 government places.

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If I could get a permit I would in a heartbeat. I actually gave all my fingerprints etc. and paid for the priviledge to get a certificate of eligibility here in CA. It basically lets you buy more than one pistol in a 30 day period.

 

I regret it now, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

I own pocket pistols as well. They certainly beat having a stick!

 

I think luck has much more to do with it than caliber as far as 'stopping power', unless there's someone that can aim for vital organs in a shootout. I'm sure some can, it ain't me though.

 

 

edit: great post, snake!

 

I try to tell people that shooting at someone no matter how criminal tehy are is the *last* thing you want to do.

 

I've seen in the papers guys beat the rap but then get the civil case, and regardless they seem to go bankrupt plenty often just paying for lawyers to keep them out of jail. Not to mention the year(s) of headaches.

 

The court system isn't particularly fair, the lawyers aren't particularly honest, and neither are the judges.

 

That said I hire them regularly to protect my interests. My only regret is not getting them to handle more things.

 

I also know better than to say a word to police other than I want to speak to an attorney.

 

I'm no expert, but I want to get out of any situation as cheaply as possible. I'd rather lose the money in my pocket, my car, anything but my life than defend myself with a gun.

 

I can replace a wallet and a few dollars and cancel my credit cards.

 

I sure wouldn't want to be caught in the woods unarmed, though.

 

You hear about that illlegal that shot those kids at the school yard the other day? he was poaching I think with an AR15 and they supposedly got hit by 'stray' rounds.

 

You just never know.

Edited by socalocalypse

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I have a permit and wouldn't be without it. I carry every where I go. I'm ready for when SHTF but I'm also ready for the crap at the local WAL-Mart or at the gas station when the piece of crap thinks he wants my wallet. I'm a firm believer in the one side of the story thing. theirs no such thing as a disabling wound to me. they can still shoot back. Head shot.

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In the state of GA. you have the right to carry a gun in your house, property and car. In sight of not. To have a gun on your person in public you need to have a weapons licence. I believe that if you carry you should hold yourself to a higher moral standard. What i mean is you should be ready to back down and not be looking for trouble. I do unfortunately know some people that if confronted they have the attitude that it's too bad for the other guy, he just picked the wrong guy to ...... with. I believe that everyone that has the legal right to carry should carry. I believe that if you so choose not to carry, fine just don't tell anyone else they should not carry. I understand that everyone wants to protect themselves and their loved ones from harm. Sometimes you can deescalate a situation without having to pull your weapon. Sometimes you cant.

That's the higher moral standard.

As for what gun you should carry, carry what feels good. Is it comfortable to shoot, carry and maintain? If it is, then that's the gun for you.

A local news story from this summer. A 54 year old women that lives alone was surprised by a man in her bathroom as she showered. She grabbed the shower curtain rod to put distance between her and the knife wielding man. With promises of money from her purse she was able to get to her bedroom night stand. She pulled a .22 pistol and ordered the guy to leave. He stared towards her with the knife. She put 9 bullets in him. He bled out on the back porch before 911 responders could arrive.

Higher moral standard.

Edited by awake

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